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Joined: Jun 2008
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Fingerling
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Fingerling
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My first post and im asking for help. I had 2 guys climb my fence and take 90 9-10 inch bluegills right off of my feeder. They had been stealing my big bass and then noticed the bluegills. My dad caught them and we called the law. I had been raising them for many years. I told the cop the value was 25 dollars each because of the amount of time I put into them. Now the cop wants all the information as to the value.I was thinking someone on here could help me find where to get that kind of info or maybe someone could write a statement themselves explaining the value and how they ruined my hard work and my pond for many years. These were regular breeding bluegills not hybreds. If you need more info ill go into more detail, thanks for any help, I meet with the cop on sunday.
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame 2014  Lunker
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Welcome to Pond Boss, bawplank.
Good thing you caught these scumbags.
Start with any receipts you have from purchase of any fish in your pond. If you don't have the receipts, call back to where you bought them and see if they can dig it up for you. If they can't find it, just ask what their unit price and delivery charges were back in the year you bought them.
Then, take an estimate of how much feed you buy each year, and include that total.
Put the cost of the fish feeder and maintenance in there too. Those bluegill might not have been 9-10" if you hadn't fed them.
Also, take a value of your own time such as an hourly rate. Then total the time you've spent raising these fish, and multiply hours times the rate and include that total.
Do whatever you can to get the dollar amount as high as possible, AS LONG AS YOU CAN JUSTIFY IT. Write it all down.
If you aerate, the cost of the aerator and the electricity should be included.
Water testing time, if you do that, should be included.
More folks will chime in. Please keep us posted. I can tell you, most folks here will get sick to the stomach after reading about the theft of your fish.
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."
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Ambassador
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That absolutely, positively SUX! I am SO sorry that your first post on the PB forum has to be this one.
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Did you get pics of the crime during commission?
Wouldn't Bawplank be able to reach out to various fish dealers in the midwest and get written estimates of the value of his fish?
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Welcome and sorry for the situation. If you can find someone with large adult BG for sale you are lucky. They are not cheap to buy if you can find them. I would pay $25 each for 3 year old + BG from Bruce for up to 50 fish. That would be an excellent start to a pond. One way to value them is to view them as replacements for small BG which run a $1000 an acre delivered for good quality fish. Add to that the time value of the money and the cost of feed and you have a lot.
Don't forget that you have a potential civil action (as opposed to criminal) against these guys and if minors , in some states against the parents.
The LMB are top $ also easily going for 5-10 $ for each 1 lb fish.
My guess is the reason the cops are asking is to see if the act has a high enough $ value to warrant a felony count.
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Lunker
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Lunker
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Isn't there some sort a publication that describes the replacement costs of fish? IIRC state fishery managers and some state courts use this to calculate replacements costs of fish taken illegaly from state waters.
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Moderator Lunker
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Professional fish guys might be able to assign a market value to BG that large. Buying and selling jumbo BG is much less common than with LMB.
"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever." -S. M. Stirling ![[Linked Image from i.pinimg.com]](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ed/b5/e7/edb5e7f935843b996cf52be593c9ebd2--smoothie-smooth-collie.jpg)
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I think the avenue of replacment cost of the actual fish of the same size is very, very solid, and not subject to questioning.
That's is probably a better route than I suggested because the time value to make a small fish into a big one is too vague to assign a monetary value.
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Lunker
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Lunker
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From the NE Fishing Forum, a note from one of Dr. Willis's former students and one of our state biologists. http://www.nefga.org/forum/nebraska-fishing-forum/11475-replace-carp.html There is a protocol that has been established by the American Fisheries Society for assessing monetary values and I believe that is one of the best estimates of the actual value of a fish. Those values are called replacement values--the cost of replacing a fish with another of equal size. If a 4-pound common carp was killed, what would be the cost of producing a 4-pound common carp to replace that fish? The replacement value of a 4-pound carp is listed by the American Fisheries Society at $0.39 per pound or $1.56 (those are 2003 figures, the most recent edition that I have in my office). For comparison, the replacement cost of a 10-inch catchable rainbow trout in the mountain/plains region (which includes Nebraska) would be $0.98; a 4-pound rainbow would have a replacement cost of $26.08.
Those are the values that are used in assessing damages. I think we would all agree that killing a bunch of fish due to some pollutant is not a natural phenomenon and society has determined that there will be fines and damages assessed in those instances. Are we going to replenish the river, replace, with common carp and other rough fish? Nope, probably not. As soon as the water can support those fish again, they will be on their way back (probably have started already), but there have been environmental damages done and this is the accepted protocol for placing a $$$$$ on those damages.
Now, since the topic has been brought up, this pointy-head is going to make another point. What is a fish worth? Have you ever stopped to think about that? What are those fish worth that you catch? What is the worth of those fish you haul home in your pickup? I have a quote on one of my bulletin boards, "Fishing is worth any amount of effort and any amount of expense to people who love it, because in the end you get such a large number of dreams per fish."--Ian Frazier in The Fish's Eye. Those of us who love to fish would agree with that statement, and would be hard-pressed to put a value on our fishing, what is it really worth to us? It is worth the world!
But follow along with this little exercise, let's use those replacement values to put some perspective on the fish we catch, the fish we harvest. How about whacking that 6-pound largemouth bass? In replacement costs that fish is worth $32.64. Or how about harvesting an 8-pound walleye?--$62.88. Or how about expecting to take a limit of 10-inch crappies home? 30 of them would add up to a replacement value of $63.00. So now, how good of a bargain is that $26.00 annual fishing permit? How many fish do you have to harvest before you realize your full $26.00 investment and then some? How many fish are you "entitled" to harvest?
I believe that is a useful exercise because it makes us stop and consider just how valuable those fish are. There is a real value that can be placed upon those fish, and I think realizing that develops a deeper appreciation for our fisheries resources.
Daryl Bauer
Lakes and Reservoirs Program Manager
Nebraska Game & Parks Commission
daryl.bauer@ngpc.ne.gov
P.S. Please feel free to share this message with others.
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Lunker
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Lunker
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Ah, Daryl the philosophical!  Thanks for posting, Shorty.
Subscribe to Pond Boss MagazineFrom Bob Lusk: Dr. Dave Willis passed away January 13, 2014. He continues to be a key part of our Pond Boss family...and always will be.
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bawplank,
Welcome to the forum. I am really sorry to hear about your situation.
I am the only aquaculturist in Nebraska that I know of who is actively attempting to grow and sell adult bluegill of that general size. In my opinion, 25 dollars is pretty low for an estimate of the value of these fish. Evening if you could find somebody who would grow these fish at $25, then deliver them (with the cost of gas could easily be $200) you still wouldn't have the value of fish that were grown in your own pond. The 9-10 inch bluegill were fish that were specially adapted to your pond, your available forage, and your feeding methods. You were truly robbed of your time, effort and property in a manner that could take years to recover.
I would place the value of these native bluegill of 9-10 inches at an absolute bare minimum of $25.00 each and probably closer to $40.00 per fish.
If you desire to have any additional information on this matter feel free to send me a PM.
Again, I feel really bad for you.
Bruce
Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
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P.S. Bruce counts as a professional aquaculturist.
"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever." -S. M. Stirling
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bawplank
Task completed.
Check your email.
Good luck.
Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
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Ambassador Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Bawplank, sorry for your problems. You've gotten some great advise, and I think the focus should be on the replacement cost at today's prices. $25-40 per fish sounds like a lot, but it's only about $2500 - not even close to repaying you for what has happened. There's got to be a way to get that figure on up there!
The bass at $10 per pound is reasonable. How many did they take - 600/800 #s? Did they tear down any fences, trample up the landscape or traumatize any cattle?
Just do it...
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Ambassador Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Ambassador Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Bawplank, hang in there, once the Texas boys get back from church you'll have plenty of good and creative ways to handle this mess.......
Just do it...
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Fingerling
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Fingerling
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I am not liking the way its going now. The cop was off from tues to sunday so i talked to him this morning and he said he was trying to set it up to talk to the trespassing theif on his day off work wich is tues or wed. It sure is going nowhere, im glad the cop is waiting for the theif to have a day off work , real nice. I thought the cop was going to do a good job now Im not so sure. Nothing like giving the guilty peoople time to get a story togather and get rid of the evidence I heard they had in the freezer to get mounted.
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Without knowing any true specifics about your situation, the MI Game Commission (or whatever is is called in MI) might play a role, especially if these guys didn't have fishing licenses.
In PA, the Fish & Game guys have a lot of authority.
Keep in mind though that you could alienate the cops before knowing who is who if you stir the pot.
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."
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Ambassador
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As Ewest mentioned above I wouldn't rule out a civil action. At least that way you might be able to both recoup some of your investment but also "financially" punish them.
JHAP
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"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
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Without knowing any true specifics about your situation, the MI Game Commission (or whatever is is called in MI) might play a role, especially if these guys didn't have fishing licenses.
In PA, the Fish & Game guys have a lot of authority.
Keep in mind though that you could alienate the cops before knowing who is who if you stir the pot. When I had problems with poachers last year I was referred to the Department of Natural Resources (game wardens) by the Sheriff's department. We never did catch the theives, but the DNR certainly appeared to be very aggressive. Had they caught the poachers, they would have been charged with a number of crimes. They too brought up filing a civil case for damages afer the DNR got through with them. Ken
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Lunker
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Lunker
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Man, That sucks, I get mad when people fish in front of my feeders and they throw the fish back. I would be furious if I found out someone was taking fish from a feeding spot on my pond. That's not even sporting. Anyone can catch a bunch of bluegill in front of a feeder.
Good luck with all this. Remember, the police are your best allies in this battle. If you make them mad you might be up a creek without a paddle. I would be as polite as possible but I would also let them know how much this crime has impacted your pond.
Again, best of luck
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Lunker
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Lunker
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Bawplank...
I don't know if the law is different up there, but down here in Texas felony theft is one where the value is over $2000. You can easily file charges on that. If the Sheriff is flaking out on you, talk to the county prosecutor. The case sounds like a slam dunk and any prosecutor is willing to take a case that gives them a conviction to their credit. If neither one of them help, contact the state police to see if they can do anything or who they recommend. At the very least, file a civil suit in the county court. The only person who can dismiss that is the presiding judge AFTER the case starts.
Water dries, rocks crumble, and trees die. The only thing that is eternal is the reputation we leave behind.
- Ancient Viking Proverb
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Lunker
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Lunker
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In Indiana, if there is financial loss as a result of a criminal act... The victim is entitled to sue for triple damages. Just a thought.
 2008, 2011 & 2012 conference attendee. Striving to be the person that my dog already thinks I am.
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Lunker
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Lunker
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Bawplank,
Sorry to hear about what happened. When your dad caught these individuals did they have fish in their possession and how many? If not you are going to have a hard getting any type of compensation from them. If they do not confess to taking all the fish that appear to be missing from your pond you are going to be out of luck. If the fish are in their freezer and the cop does by chance get a warrant to confiscate them how are you going to prove they are from your pond? I dont mean to burst your bubble but if they get an attorney these are the questions that will be asked.
Trust me I had a guy in PA who caught someone tresspassing and fishing on his pond and the only thing I could prosecute him for was fishing without a license and tresspassing. He had no fish culled at the time and the owner of the pond could not prove this was the individual that had caught some of his 5-8 pound bass. The perpetrator sure aint going to admit to it, if he does good but tell the cop to get a written statement from him or it is nothing but hearsay unless he was placed under arrest.
As far as civil litigation you must have proof that these guys indeed had fish in their possession also.
Dreaming of the pond!
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Brian, good to see you back. Where've you been?
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 123
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Aug 2007
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Sunil,
Working too much! Damn road construction overtime,greed and wife to do list was getting too long I figured I would tackle a few things on it.
Last edited by BrianShpock; 06/18/08 10:09 PM.
Dreaming of the pond!
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Fingerling
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Fingerling
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They had a bucket but my dad didnt look into it becasue one guy took it and was walking away with it while the other one tried to small talk. He didnt do after the guy cause he felt threatened. The guy looks like a tough guy and my dad didnt want any trouble. The guy with the bucket then bragged all about to a freind of mine and that guy give a statment to the cop. Its really frustrating now because the cop has not done nothing but play phone tag with the one guy and thats it, now hes off until july 1 and he said the case wont be handed off so nothing will be done till july now. To make it worse I got statements from 2 guys on here about the value of the fish and faxed them sto the office. I then called and confirmed they got the fax. Today the cop asked me to fax them again because he never seen them, "they were on the sergents desk and now no one knows where they are" Im real worried about the fact that these guys climbed our fence, stole property in broad daylight got confronted and got away with it. We are very concerned about all the stuff on our farm and in the barns. I guess I expected the police to do a good job, but it seems they are making job security for themselves.
Last edited by bawplank; 06/19/08 02:00 AM.
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