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My pond here south of Houston lies in a flat and very open area. I would like to add something for windbreak. Is there a prefferable tree type to use, or possibly large growing shrub. I was thinking maybe red-tip photinia that can get 5-6 ft tall. Also, Cedar and Ash trees seem to grow fast.

Are there trees that you definitely DONT want around your pond?

The soil is mostly clay/gumbo and very flat. We are in USDA hardiness zone 9.


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The taller they are, the more of a wind break you get. Take a look around your place and see what grows natural. That should help you decide what to use. Up around here, Yaupon grows all over the place and gets up to around 20-25 ft high. If you plant it, give it some space, and let it grow, it won't be so scraggily like you see in the woods. The ones on my place can grow 3 or 4 ft per year easy. If it tries to spread, the shredder takes'em down up to around 1" in diameter or so.


Water dries, rocks crumble, and trees die. The only thing that is eternal is the reputation we leave behind.
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A good windbreak should technically be at least 3 rows. You want a tall tree, a medium tree and a shrub. Both height and density matter. This link to the University of Missouri Extension website will help explain:
http://extension.missouri.edu/xplor/agguides/forestry/g05900.htm
(note you can download a pdf copy of the guide for offline viewing by clicking the link in the left hand margin)


Your tree selections may need to be different based on climate, but the idea is still the same.

Good luck!


12 ac pond in NW Missouri. 28' max depth at full pool. Fish Present: LMB, BG, RES, YP, CC, WB, HSB, WE, BCP, WCP, GSH.
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Thanks !!

Should have mentioned that I have only room for one row of anything to go around the pond due to property line limits.

Do Pine tree needles effect water quality ?


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I have been told that pine tree needles acidify soil so I would assume the same would be true for a pond. However, I don't know if that would be much different than any other type of leaf that would get in there.


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Ezylman is correct. Pines do acidify soils more so than most other types of trees. However, all decaying tree leaves acidify the soil to a degree. They could have an impact on pond ph if large amounts of leaves/needles go into the pond. However, this will likely be pretty negligible depending on the amount of flow through your pond has, the ph of water entering your pond, etc. Typically, it's a non-issue for most. There are others here who could describe this much better than I. \:\)

Pines make a good windbreak, in part, because they tend to have a dense foliage from top to bottom as well as the fact that they choke off many competing trees, shrubs and weeds due to the fallen needles (an acidic mulch). Additionally, the lack of light penetration beneath them prevents other competing plants from getting much of a foot hold. This is also the reason it is VERY difficult to grow any kind of quality turf beneath them. The floor of a natural pine forest is basically just fallen needles and not much more. They often tend to be very homogeneous stands.


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Weissguy

What kind of pines would you recommend? I love Scotch but some bug/disease is knocking off tons in the Lincoln NE area and leaves me reluctant to plant myself. Austrian and Ponderosa pines would be a good choice for zone five - right?


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teehjaeh57 -

It's funny, but I asked similar questions here on the board some time back as I was planning my windbreak and specimen plantings around the pond. A quick search would probably produce that thread. Since posting my own questions, I've hopped into researching trees in a big way, so hopefully I can help you out a little.

I'm in Zone 5 and I'm planting a rather large windbreak this year that is based around Eastern White Pines (Pinus strobus). They are perfectly fine for zone 5, but they are really thick in more northern climes. They are pretty common in your home state of Nebraska (tons of them on I80 between Lincoln and Omaha), so they'd probably work nicely for you also. They are also hardy and fairly disease resistant. I'm also planting a few Red Pines (Pinus resinosa) around the property. They too are a northern variety, but they also will do pretty well in zone 5.

If you are a fan of Austrian Pine (Pinus nigro), they could work fine for you. They are well suited for your area, but they are moderately susceptible to Zimmerman pine moths, very susceptible to Sphaeropsis (Diplodia) blight and Dothistroma needle blight. Austrian Pine is a popular choice for christmas tree plantings in our zone.

Ponderosa Pine (Pinus ponderosa) is a good native choice (native is good) for you. Since it is native to almost all of Nebraska it is obviously well adapted to your area. It's very drought tolerant. It does, however, share the same disease and insect susceptibility as Austrian Pine. However, due to its drought tolerance, these issues are less likely (in my opinion). I think it would be a good choice for your area.

Like you said, Scotch Pine is a host to a number of insect and disease problems, and probably best avoided. I like the look of them a lot, but they just come with too much baggage.

Colorado Spruce (Picea pungens) is a very good, dense windbreak tree also (not a pine but a good pine "look"), though it has a slower growth rate than many other windbreak selections. The seedlings are pretty fragile for the first few years, but once they take off they are pretty hardy. Spider mites can cause some issues, particularly in young seedlings. Rhizosphaera can cause issues if the trees often have wet feet.

Eastern Redcedar (Juniper virginiana, Linn.) is also a good native choice, though not incredibly attractive sometimes. We call it redcedar, but as the scientific name implies, it's actually a juniper (common name confusion is not just specific to fish...hehe). It has its own disease and insect issues, but I've never encountered problems with them in my own plantings. Others will beg to disagree however.

Another very worthy consideration is Jack Pine(Pinus banksiana), but they do develop a somewhat "beat up" look to them as they grow. Some people like that, some don't. They are very disease resistant but pine tip moths can sometimes be a problem. There are a lot of Jack Pines on I80 between Omaha and Lincoln that have developed quite an interesting shape due to winds. Of course there are a ton of White Pines in this same stretch with similar "interesting" shapes.


Hope this helps a little. \:\)


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WeissGuy

Jeesh - we have a lot in commmon....you face an issue, and instead of just educating yourself enough to "solve" it, you end up becoming vastly interested and become rather an expert on the subject a few months later!!! I know due to our geo proximity to one another and our passion for trees/ponds/et al we'll get on very well!


Thank you very much for the feedback - I find the E Red Cedar a little slow in growth and esthetically inferior to the pines or spruces and firs, but I agree they are probably the most hardy of all the options. My favorite pine, by far, is the White Pine - and if I could I would prefer planting them over any of the other options.

I will check the threads - and I'm sorry I should have done that straight away instead of making you rehash. Great meeting you, and go Huskers, er Tigers....right? \:\)

tom


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teehjaeh57 -

You're right. When I become interested in something I tend to have the overwhelming drive to learn EVERYTHING I possibly can about it. My wife likes to poke fun at that from time to time (it's deserved for sure).

Sorry to hear you can't get white pines. I honestly think you'd be best off with them. Are you ordering from the state? If so, that seems strange they don't offer them. Mine does, and I just got 150 of them via UPS today for $25 or so. They are all about 2-3 feet and branched. I was expecting 12 inch plugs, so I'm quite happy.

Yes, I'm a Tiger fan. Going to the spring football game this weekend in fact. Looking forward to it.


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On leaf matter in your pond. Grinding insects do not gain significant nutrition from leaves, rather, they dine on the bacteria and fungi that populate the leaf surface. This is where the nutrients come from, not the leaves. The grinders are then taken by other insects, and then fish eat them. Thus the nutrition to your fish from leaves is measurable via the bacteria, and nutrition from the leaves themselves is negligable.

In experiments removing all leaf litter from covered waterways, and then netting the tops to discourage further leaf fall, it was found the food web did not change significantly at all. Grinders were replaced by insects that graze directly from substrate, and other filter feeders. The population of fish produced in a stream with no leaves was not compromised. The nutritional potential in the stream, the food chain, was not compromised.

What the.....

When making a shelter belt consider what other advantages might be gained from such a move. Why settle for only shelter...

Leaf fall will not significantly alter a waterbody one way or another. Pine needles will.

The acidifying effect of deciduous leaves is minimal. The leaves fall mainly as they are dead, dried leaves are more of a carbon source than nitrogen. They don't really break down till they are the dessert of grinding insects or fungi.

Nesting birds will add to bacterial diversity and add ferts to your pond for plankton growth.

Shade, erosion protection, trapping farm runoff (use VAM fungi innoculation on your trees, and not only will they trap runoff water, your trees will grow faster), habitat, nutritional cycling (provide surfaces for free floating bacteria then the bacteria get eaten).

I prefer deciduous because they replenish the land beneath themselves whereas pines strip it. And I like the sun in, in winter, and blocked in summer, how deciduous trees work.

You are obviously already familiar with many local trees there. Consider too, very important, a tree that can cope with wet feet.

I too suffer from too much study on one interest. Fun aye!

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Back again, the last post missed vital points to my arguement for deciduous trees as I was sidetracked by a visitor.

Leaf litter in a pond assists in removing nitrates and enhances aquatic insect diversity. There have been many studies in NZ alone pointing out the benefits of leaf litter to a waterbodies nutrient cycle.

More insects means more free fish food. Increased nutrient cycling means less 'waste' - the more toxic compounds of wastes in your water will be converted faster, making life better for your fish.

Many fish species spawn in leaf matter on the sides of water and the fry often require plankton found in vegetative shallows to be 'weaned' on.

Nother visitor, got's t go.

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Great stuff, Kokopu. Is this a particular area of expertise for you, or are all Kiwis extremely well versed in aquatic insect roles in the decomposition of leaf litter? (I just noticed your location.)


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I guess it is my field, or a part of it.

I have been corresponding with a riverine ecologist just today and reading a few old studies on riparian cover (trees etc that are close to/shading water) and the effects of it's removal. Not good...

The 'leaves' study was too short really to give an accurate picture of the effects of losing all that potential from the food chain. Also, they removed the leaves, but not the trees, quite unnatural, but interesting nonetheless. As I stated above, and should have quantified the leaves study first with it - leaf matter draws nitrate, houses bacteria and insects, and assists some spawning and fry.

Trees are a great addition to any property, but hey, I'm preaching to the converted.

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Wow...I'm sold. Great presentation, Kokopu.
(is there a category for tree stuff in the archives?)

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Weissguy -

Sorry for the misunderstanding - I certainly CAN get white pines in NE and they are my favorite pine for several reasons and I will be planting many to serve as a shelter belt around my eventual homesite. [FYI - Huskers had over 80,000 pack in for Red White scrimmage - and you had your best attendance ever at 20k+ or so? Congrats - and I mean it. You have something special going down there - now if you could just teach those few really poorly behaved MU fans how to win with class I could actually come back down and enjoy a game or two...] ;- )

Kokopu -

Used to ski with many Kiwis when I "worked" in Breckenridge, CO [taking a two year break from college] and really enjoyed my time with them - great to hear a shout out from NZ on the forum. Further, thank you - you very capably educated me on the benefit of deciduous VS coniferous around the water...this is welcome news as Eastern Cottonwoods are prevalent in my neck of the woods and will spring up just about anywhere a trickle of water exists. They drop a ton of twigs and are very soft and due to be damaged in wind/storms/etc., but grow quickly and have essentially no disease or bug issues.

Eastern Cottonwood....besides sucking up a ton of water, anyone have any other trepadations regarding their service as wind shelter?

Thanks again gentlemen!

TJ


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