Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Ok, how about a FH/RES pond?

That's interesting FT. How far did the fish have to swim to get into your pond? Downstream from my pond is a tiny seasonal drain and the closest year round water is probably about 1/2 mile away. I have no doubt that what you say is true, but if I'm lucky I'll have a while before other species can enter my pond that way.

Mr H's small pond which is the FH/RES/WM pond is even safer than mine against migration of outside fish because they would have to pass through mine first.

I'm sure you all can appreciate how I feel now that there are 100 baby Shellcrackers cruising my pond in search of food.

My small pond is only 30 yards above the main pond but the main pond is 100 yards above a dry creek bed and that's where the original contamination started. I have no idea how far the greenies and bullheads traveled up the creek bed but I’m sure it was a considerable distance. The main pond was cleaned out in the summer of 06 and what water was left treated with hydrated lime until it turn crystal clear and the crawfish and bugs all croaked so I should have started fresh and clean. I also stocked from a reliable source so I know that wasn't the point of entry. So unless you believe in the stork theory (wading bird) the only point of entry was from spillway runoff.

For my pond (>.5 acre, 400 recently stocked FH, 100 1.25" RES) do I need to wait before stocking adult RES? Bill and Eric, you both mentioned summer when you advised about adult RES, but is it important that I wait? If I got them soon would they have a good chance of spawning? If so, would that be good or bad or neither?

If they are adults and have not spawned this year and you put them in they will most probably spawn. My concern is with the food supply. Is there enough for them to eat in a new pond? Plankton bloom yet ? My suggestion would be if you are going to add them in the next mth or so then cut the number in half , add some more FH and start feeding some pellets including some sinking pellets. Add all those craws and some snails if you can get them from the other ponds and put a little hay (1 small bail divided into 6 portions) to spread around the pond to sink for stuff (snails and inverts) to grow on. Might even add a 5 gal bucket of water from the other pond to seed yours.

I just "inoculated" my new pond with 5 gallons from the old pond last Saturday. Maybe it will help out with zooplankton, as judging from the greenish color of the new pond, it seems to be doing well wrt phytoplankton.

I know that most biologists will tell you that it's probably not necessary, but I think "inoculating helps get a head start in a brand new pond on getting a diverse early crop of zooplankton. Just make sure that the donor pond doesn't have unwanted plant species that you're also inoculating.

Thanks all.

My pond has a fair amount of fry from the FH I stocked recently and Mr H's pond is teeming with them. I think I'll have to trap a good number from his pond just to keep them in balance. That said I don't think FH will be in short supply.

Whenever I transfer FH from his pond to mine I always take a few gallons of water from the weedy area of Mr H's pond. Besides that his pond is above mine and has overflowed quite a lot in the last month. I think this has resulted in my new pond being more seasoned than most ponds of the same age.

I think I'll add some hay like ewest said, and trap some crawdads. I don't see many snails in the local ponds or creeks. Could it be that the water is too soft or acidic?

I have about a billion small black tadpoles in the pond, I think from tree frogs. I put a few tiny ones in the aquarium with the RES and they spit them out.

In my pond (FH/RES) I'm thinking that Gambusia might be a good management tool under certain circumstances. If FH continually overpopulate I could add Gambusia to control them. There are plenty of FH fry in my pond now, and if I had Gams I'm sure they would be feasting on them. I suppose the Gams would also prey on RES fry as well. Would the RES prey on Gams at all?

I may not have a choice about the Gams because they usually stock themselves around here.

If I reach the point in this test where I need a larger predator to control RES I think I'll try Chain Pickerel first. When they are smaller they would prey on the FH also and then they would have to target the RES as they got larger. CP are native to GA and the world record of 9 lbs 6 oz is from here. They often live is swampy water so I imagine they would be fairly tolerant of warm water/low DO.

I have 10 RES (from the batch I stocked into my pond) in an aquarium. Today I added several FH fry to the tank and I can tell you without a doubt that RES adore FH minnows. This leads me to believe that the only reason RES don't normally feed much on fish is because of a lack of appropriately sized prey. Other Lepomis quickly outgrow the minimum size required to fit in a RES mouth so in most ponds that leaves bugs and snails.

I think my biggest challenge with this project is going to be supplying my small RES with adequate forage once the FH quit spawning. Maybe I should stop feeding the FH in an effort to keep them smaller...

That's good information. Thanks.

GW FH are fractional spawners and will keep spawning for a while. Just keep adding them and feeding them.

Thanks ewest, that sounds great.

I love this thread GW. I appreciate you researching this thing for us.

Thanks Bruce.

Here's an inspirational video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdI8wiX2Qf0

Beautiful male redear. That got me fired up!

Here's a link to James thread on RES ponds:

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=114021#Post114021

It may be confusing, but this thread is about 2 ponds, mine and my neighbor's (Mr. H) small pond. Mine is only going to have FH and RES for a few years.

On 3/20/08 I stocked 100 (1.25 inch) Redears, and then a few weeks later added 10 more from the same batch which I was keeping in an aquarium.

Today I added 8 adult RES ranging in size from 5 - 7 inches. They all came from Mr H's big pond.

Cool video, GW. I guess that 3rd one decided the bucket was a better home. I guess he figured you'd just hand-feed him the FHs in there.

I always love it when someone "let's freedom ring!"

GW,

If you need any larger RES let me know. I live in WC GA. and would be happy to donate some from my pond. They are spawnjng now
and can be caught without to much effort.

David

There was another one in there and they both decided the bucket was the best spot. I eventually had to evict them.


I would love to get some RES from another pond David, I'm thinking it might help improve their genetics. I also noticed you said "larger". Larger is good...

I still need about a dozen more adults (using ewest's numbers) so I would be happy to take some off your hands. Thanks, and please let me know if it can be arranged.

GW,

contact me by email dpendergrast@jbyrealty.com

david

Today I was feeding the FH and I noticed some of the fingerling RES hanging a few inches below the surface. They appear to be almost double the weight they were when I stocked them a little over a month ago. I saw at least 3 individual fish and they were a minimum of 2 inches long and possibly as much as 2.5 inches.

I was curious about why they were so close to the surface. Maybe it was because that's were a lot of the FH fry are. I watched the first RES for a few minutes hoping to see it preying on fry, but all I observed was an adult FH chase it away.

I moved further along the bank and saw 2 more RES at the same depth. They were about 8 feet out, but the sun was shining bright overhead so I could see them pretty well. I also wear polarized sunglasses every time I go to the pond. I noticed that one of them seemed to have something in it's mouth and it was working it's gill covers pretty hard. Then, whatever was in it's mouth swam out quickly and made it about 8 inches before being recaptured. I hoped it was a FH, but I couldn't say for certain. There are tons of small tadpoles in the pond now and it could have been one of them.

I kept watching and in a few minutes the prey escaped again, but that time I was able to see it more clearly and I believe it was a yoy FH. It was too far away to see detail, but the sun hit the fish's side and the flash of light was what you expect to see from the scales of a fish. I estimate that it was .75 inches long. This time when it escaped, the minnow went deep and I didn't see the RES recapture it.

One or two minutes later I saw the fish come back to the surface with what I assume was the tail of the same minnow sticking out of it's mouth. This time I was only about 5 feet from the RES and I'm relatively certain it was the same fish, a little further along in the process of eating the same FH. I couldn't see the details of the tail, but the RES had something in it's mouth and it was still working it's gills more than usual. I think the first two times I saw this fish it had the FH in it's mouth tail-first. The third time I believe it was in head-first.

Does it seem reasonable that the fingerlings could double in mass in one month? The pond is loaded with FH yoy, some of them still only a few days old I would guess.

Yes, it is absolutely reasonable to put on that much weight. Sometimes really little lepomis grow at an almost stunning rate when there is ample big forage available....like YOY fatheads.

Excellent observations. It is my personal belief that if you can get lepomis on a fish diet they will have the very best chance of growing huge. This also stands true for lepomis with lots and lots of bigger sized invertebrates available throughout the year.

GW you really answered your own question. Think about this (my assumptions here) RES yoy weighed X - it ate a FH that weighed 1/4 X - at that point subject to digestion the RES weighed 1 1/4 X. A few of those at a high metabolic rate (digest the FH in a few hours) that yoy have and you have a RES at 2X. When young those dudes run wide open. Did you see the post where Bob talked about the GShiner fry - ... "Keep in mind, these golden shiner fry are tiny, tiny. 250,000 may only weigh 8 pounds, total. But, if they can live as long as 45 days, they can grow to 6 pounds per 1,000...about the size of a regular crappie minnow. ". That is a REAL growth rate of an average of 4.1666X per day.

I know RES devour tadpoles based on aquarium observation.