Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Ok, how about a FH/RES pond?

GW you have 120 remaining RES. I would put 75 in your pond with the 400 FH and see what happens. If you can get up to 20 adult RES to add this summer you should be all set to test this theory. If the FH #s look to be getting low add a few more.

Theo, my pond will remain WM free for now.

Thanks ewest.

RES as small fish 1"-3") readily enter fish traps so they could also the thinned that way to help reduce their numbers. I suggest you periodically check on the numbers of FHM by setting wire minnow traps and compare the numbers and sizes caught in each trap set over time. Note numbers of FHM caught will naturally vary during the different seasons.

GW - ewest has in his earlier post suggested 75 RES (225/ac) in your pond. Use that number or up to 130 RES (390-400/ac) in your pond. You have to start with some number around 75-130 will probably not make a lot of difference either way in your case. You can always remove or add as they grow. A good number would be 75-100 (1.5" RES) and then add around 20-35 adults this summer.

Dr. Dave.
Of 47 fish sampled in Aug 05, 2003, 57.5% were YP and 42.5% were RES.
YP 3"-5" = eleven, 5.1"-7" = 6, 7.1"-10" = 10.
RES 3"-4" = 16, 4.1"-5" = 2, 5.1"-6" = 2.
If it would be a benefit, I can go back again this early summer and resample. This time include my traps and angling. The pond has some submerged weed growth which probably hinders YP preying on small RES.

Since RES will fill the normal role of LMB in my pond I thought about taking recommended LMB stocking rates and multiplying by a factor of 5 to compensate for the size difference. The average rate for LMB seems to be about 75/acre, but I don't know what you all typically recommend. 75 X 5(size adj) = 375 X .4 acres = 150. The total would be 100 if you use 50 LMB/acre as the guide.

GW that recommended rate of 100 LMB per acre is with 2in fish and with BG as the forage base along with FH which have been in the pond for a few mths.

I would not plan on 5 RES taking the place or serving the same role as one normal growing LMB. Time will finish this story.

GW I don't expect you to have problems with the RES and FH. Use a trap or seine to adjust #s if needed. Feed some pellets to keep the FH in good condition. BSF , crickets or worms can be used to supp RES food or you can try to feed train them. You don't need to have a LMB replacement -- that is your part of the equation at the top of the food chain.

Bill time will finish all of our jobs here - each in his own time.

"BSF , crickets or worms...." What is BSF? It is not in the acronyms topic of the Archives.

I added a whole new INSECT ACRONYM category to the acronym post in the Archives. Currently the Black Soldier Fly is the only entry. If anyone can think of other insect acronyms we use, let me know.

All the worms
red
wax
night crawlers
catalpa

It's more accurate to use BSFL when discussing the larvae and not the adults. (L = larva)

Maybe add meal worms and tent catepillars?

I have a colony of meal worms going. They're quite easy and carefree to raise.

I've had great luck at times using tent catepillars for bait. They're MUCH easier to find than catalpa worms.

I stocked Mr H's part of the fish order into his pond, but I haven't added any fish to my pond yet. I have the remaining fish in an aquarium. It's a little crowded, but the fish are eating very aggressively. I've given them mosquito larvae and they go crazy for them.

One problem is that I'm sure there are some WM mixed in and they're so small that identifying them is difficult. I'm considering putting them into a floating cage and raising them to a larger size where I can ID them better.

That made me think about feed training the RES. On one hand my goal with this pond could be the biggest RES as soon as possible which seems to indicate feeding. OTOH this might add an additional factor that takes away from our understanding of the relationship between the FH and the RES.

Please comment if you have a preference for feed trained RES for this test or not.

I'll start looking into cage design for something quick and cheap. The fish are in only 10 gallons of water now, but they seem to be in decent health. I've got strong aeration in the tank and I'll do frequent water changes until I get them settled.

GW, my understanding is that RES do not feed train easily and cage culture with RES is high on the difficulty scale. Maybe Bruce or Bill Cody can explain why.

Thanks Shorty. I would consider feed training if it's reasonable, but my main reason for keeping them in a cage is to grow them to a size where I can ID them better. I can accomplish that by getting them to about 2 or 2.5 inches. If they won't take pellets I can get some BSFL going in a hurry and there are a ton of mosquito larvae around.

I'm also considering keeping them in a 55 gallon tank until I can ID them.

Maybe feed training the RES wouldn't skew the results all that much. If the RES ate pellets they would prey on the FH less. In that case more pellets = more FH. On the other hand if the RES don't take take the pellets the FH would, still resulting in an increase of FH.

Btw, the RES, which are closer to 1.5 - 2 inches, and taking pellets in the aquarium already. I have some Grower 400 and I had to crumble them, but they're going for it.

Edit: I was rereading this thread and was surprised that I posted the length of these RES at 1.5 - 2 inches. I distinctly remember them being 1.25 inches long. Then I read my post a few posts down and I saw that I referred to them as the proper length. Don't know what I was thinking about when I typed this!

GW:

I don't consider RES hard to feed train. They sure won't take pellets for squawt without being trained, but I had really good luck with pellet training and IMO pretty good retention of pellet eating afterwards.

Cody is working on a method to differentiate BG and REs at a very early age. He could probably tell you how to idenify RES versus WM.

I thought of one possible way to sort them. If I put single fish in a white bowl with very little water I think they would take on darker colors which might help ID them. I think the WM are more purple.

It would be a simple matter if they would only keep their mouths wide open.

You should be able to recognize a larger mouth on the warmouth compared to the RES. Also the pectoral fin of the warmouth will extend to noticably shorter than the beginning of the anal fin whereas the pectoral fin of the RES will extend back slightly past the beginning of the anal fin. Pectoral fin shape of RES will be longer and more pointed compared to shorter and more rounded pectoral fin of warmouth.

Agreed...
Our RES have become self feed trained, but on sinking pellets.
I would venture a guess that many have feed trained RES and don't even know it.

Encase a AQMX pellet in ph on a hook heavy enough to sink the "fly" and you may be surprised at the results.
I sure was....

"Btw, the RES, which are closer to 1.5 - 2 inches, and taking pellets in the aquarium already. I have some Grower 400 and I had to crumble them, but they're going for it."
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GW does the 400 seem to sink quicker to you? I am messing with some GS FH and a couple LMB in an 800 gal holding tank and it (400) seems to start sinking immediately. The next RES I catch will be added. I am getting ready to reread and look at possibly feed training some crappie and FHs mixed. Thinking a RES FH to start and adding Crappie and later HSB. Then to push the envelope 30 or so female LMB.
George the self training aspect is exciting and hoping for similar results!(Crappie and RES).

Wow George, that's a chubby Shellcracker!

ahvatsa, the Grower 400 floats a long time for me. In the aquarium it gets knocked down by the strong aerator I'm using. I haven't seen them go to the surface for pellets, but some of them will for mosquito larvae.

Bill, thanks, I guess I need to get a magnifying glass. I have to use reading glasses and seeing small details like this can be tough for me.

Yesterday I stocked 100 RES into my pond with an average length of 1.25 inches. There may have been a few WM in the bunch, but I did my best to sort them out. I decided not to feed train them so that the test will be more basic.

Very cool project, I too would be very interested in the results. But don't think for a minute that the fish in a lower pond won't migrate upstream in extremely swift runoff. My male only CNBG project was contaminated that way with GSF and BH the first time it overflowed around the spillway.