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This may be a stupid question, but here goes anyway.

My pond, which has heavy spring-fed inflow and outflow, has a stand-pipe overflow where the water runs out of the top. I was down at the pond today and the water had stopped coming out of the top and the pond was about two feet higher than normal.

The stand-pipe intake was not blocked because I was able to open a valve at the bottom of the stand-pipe and the water flowed out.

There have been heavy rains recently. Is it possible that the water rises so fast that it will get higher than the top of the standpipe and some mysterious hydraulic law takes over and it stops running out the top?

Thanks for any insight.

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BillB, I can only imagine that the drain intake was clogged, maybe not totally, but enough to cause the rise.



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I don't see any reason for the flow stoppage except a clog in the vertical pipe. Is is possible that the leaves, sticks, or some other crap got sucked into the drain and clogged the pipe, likely near the bottom? If you know the exact height of the stand pipe, jam a 2 x 4 x (the same length + 12" to hold it) down the stand pipe and make sure you hit the horizontal PVC at the bottom.
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...or have I got the physics wrong?

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If water is over the top of the stand pipe then the pipe should be full unless water is coming out of the exit end. Pics would help us understand the situation.

"Is it possible that the water rises so fast that it will get higher than the top of the standpipe and some mysterious hydraulic law takes over and it stops running out the top?"

That can happen and is why you have an emergency spillway. If your SP is running at full capacity and water inflow is faster than out flow water can rise over the top of the stand pipe.


Last edited by ewest; 02/24/08 04:53 PM.















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Bill,

Besides a stoppage, the only way I can imagine the stand pipe would stop flowing is that the outflow end is under water that's at a higher elevation than the pond. The water would probably be nearly as high as your dam, and you would certainly know that.

If the outflow side is visible and well below your dam, you certainly have a stoppage. All it takes is a few twigs to start catching leaves, grass, and algae. That combination can make a very effective plug.

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Thanks for the replies. Maybe these pictures will help.

My pond actually has two regular spillways that flow all the time. Here is the opst that discusses those issues:

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=108112#Post108112

This discussion lead to the conclusion that I needed an emergency spillway. Well if the water keeps rising, I will have a spillway created by an emergency, just not of my choosing.

Here is another thread that discusses some of my other pond issues. It has some pictures as well.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=103339#Post103339


But back to the problem at hand. Here is a picture of the standpipe. I would guess it dates to when the pond was impounded in 1972.



Down where the red arrow is are two valves comming off a "Y" shaped pipe. The valve on the left is rusted in place and simply trickles all the time. The valve on the right can be open and shut and usually is kept in the shut position so that the water flows out the top like shown near the blue arrow. If fact in the summer, if the valve is open the water level will actually drop.

When I arrived at the pond yesterday the water was two feet higher than normal and no water was flowing out of the top of the spillpipe. So I open the valve at the bottom of the pipe and water immediately flowed out. Curriously, it was very muddy and ran muddy for about 10 minutes before clearing. From my other posts you can see my water is currently very clear. Could an obstruction of mud pludgged it from going up the spillway but was freed when I opened it? I never shut the valve to see if it would go back up the pipe. Doh! (And my pond is two hours away. Double Doh!)

bodad, I am not sure I understand your post, but the current water level is about 2 feet HIGHER than the top of the pipe shown by the blue arrow. The water was at the very top of the dam hence my urgency. :)Would this keep it from flowing? I would rather have water flowing up the standpipe because it is twice the diameter of the valve.

BillB
Owner of pond (maybe former pond)

Last edited by BillB; 02/24/08 06:15 PM. Reason: add information
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Opening the bottom drain would allow more water pressure at the release point than there was at the top of the spill pipe, since there is more "head" from the pond surface to that lower level. Pressure from only 2 feet of water at the top of the spille pipe; 2 feet plus it looks like about 6 more to the bottom release valve. That's 4 times the pressure - enough to blow a mud plug loose, maybe. As you noted, it would be very interesting to see if the spill pipe worked properly after the water cleared - if not, I would think there must still be some kind of stoppage in the spill pipe's riser section.


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Thanks. I cannot believe that I did not close the valve to see what would happen. It all seems so logical now.

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Thought I would close this out. My contractor came out and swabbed the PVC pipe and pushed out some debris so the 8" PVC pipe spillway started running. The bad news is the standpipe seems to be clogged with something and we cannot get it free. Standpipe has been there since pond was impounded in 1972. When the PVC spillway started running the pond level went back to normal. Still need to get that emergency spillway in place.

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BillB , I have a standpipe like your's but with only one valve which is so rusted it won't open . I have owned the pond for 6 years and have no idea how old it is and have had to backflush it with a trash pump pulling water out of the pond and into the top of the standpipe it worked just fine to unstop it , maybe will work for you.

Any body out there know someone that could replace the valve without draining the pond--- Thanks for any help

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Good suggestion, Harvey! Maybe cut back the pipe to allow installation of a coupling that terminates in a threaded fitting at the same height as the original standpipe elevation? Then, Bill could assemble the necessary fittings to create a screw-on adapter that would arc 180 degrees and point directly downward to facilitate quick and easy attachment of the trash pump output hose.
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...or not. Whaddayathink?

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harvey, where have you been?


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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It may be possible to replace the valve without draining the pond, but I would need a lot of information before I could answer that question. You are welcome to call the office at 1-800-882-3478 and set up a phone appt. with me.

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You could probably devise some way to "plug" up the intake. I am thinking of a metal or acrylic circle slightly larger than the diameter of the pipe. You could then wrap the disc and the pipe with a good bit of shrink wrap to keep the circle in place when you cut the valve free/unbolt the valve. If you can't hold your breath that long, a 10-20ft section of garden hose attached to something that floats would make a decent snorkel. Don't make it much longer than that otherwise you won't be able to flush out the CO2 with each breath. As long as the disc makes a good seal, a good 8-10 layers of shrink wrap should help keep out the water as well. If this doesn't work and the water starts to come out, DO NOT go back into the water to mess with the plug. You will get sucked into the pipe.


Water dries, rocks crumble, and trees die. The only thing that is eternal is the reputation we leave behind.
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Sunil , Im back.

BillB , I stuffed the outhose of the trash pump as far as i could down the stand pipe and then chinked around it and then held on tight. It worked.

Otto will get in touch.

Ezylman , don't know about the snorkel , almost drowned in Hawaii , got caught in a swift current. thank God for life guards on surf boards.

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Thanks for all the suggestions.

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Thanks for all the suggestions.

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I unclogged my standpipe.

I bought some 8 foot pieces of PVC (1/4 inch), put screw together joints on them, screwed together about 70 feet of it and took a cobweb brush (plastic stiff bristles) and Gorrilla taped it to the end to make one l-o-n-g plunger. I pushed it up through the valve end until I ran into some mud and debris. After some vigourous brushing, the clog broke free and water is running out the top of the standpipe again. The PVC was flexible enough to curve through the valves, but stiff enough to put some ooomph behind. Not sure how the mud got in there because there feels like a screen is over the pond side inflow pipe. Maybe it built up over time.

Thanks for all the advice.

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...Yankee ingenuity; best kind

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Did someone say YANKEE...????

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I prefer American ingenuity. \:D

Last edited by ewest; 04/15/08 06:44 PM.















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Actually it was "water is running over my dam is the mother of all invention" ingenuity. Both spillways were clogged and water was going over the top of the dam. While the standpipe had been clogged for a while, the other pipe had just recently clogged.

I ran to the corner convienance/hardware store and made do with the parts that were available. Used my now patent pending "spillway pipe clearing kit" to do the job on both of them.

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Working on old pipe is a lot more common that we want to believe.

There 2 dams that will have the pipe replaced as soon as we can start the work, and a man outside of Kansas City that is repairing his himself.

This is not uncommon and not as difficult as it may seem. Sometimes it is wet and muddy but usually not impossible.

OTTO

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I now have a working theory on how the pipe was stopped up.

I was down at the pond this weekend and discovered some red maple trees near the shore that had been chopped down by beavers.

After doing some research and talking to the local critter trapper, it seems that beavers instinctively work to stop running water and were apparently irritated with the sound of the water going through my spillways On closer inspection of my culvert spillway, I saw where the beaver had acutally dug under the trash guard and stuff tree limbs in the pipe. The limbs then grabbed hold of all the leaves and moss floating through and pretty soon you have water overflow. I am now fashioning a bottom to the trash guard to prevent the tunneling.

I still have not figured out how they gummed up the stand-pipe, but the circumstantial evidence tells me it was the beaver. (Anyone ever see a beaver shimmy up a metal pole?)

I retained the local trapper to rid my pond of the beaver. He told me he prefers to hunt them by moonlight. So when the next full moon comes along I will have an update.

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I've seen the beaver's handy work on a spillway. It's just amazing to me how sometimes a beaver is better at building a dam than we are. I'm pretty sure he doesn't use the best material either.

Last edited by kramerode; 05/02/08 06:32 PM.

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