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Joined: Apr 2006
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Just wondering what size LMB you needed for this 3/4" floating pellet food. I was thinking about adding this into a mix of 3/16" food for my 5-6" CNBG and 10-12" HSB. I have LMB that were 7-8" stocked in Nov 2007.

Given the above mix of fish, what Aquamax food would you recommend ?


Thanks,

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I just ordered my first 20 bags yesterday, so I don't have any experience with it. I'll let you know how it works out.

My fish are used to big feed so I don't anticipate any problems. I'm curious to see what the pellets look like since I haven't been able to find any pictures of them. I normally buy 2 tons of food at a time, but this is kind of a test run to see if they work properly in my feeders.


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A couple of 14" LMB were regularly eating the Purina LM at my place last fall. My 14" HSB feed further out in the pond so I can't be sure but they seemed to be eating it too.




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 Originally Posted By: PlaceboMan
I just ordered my first 20 bags yesterday, so I don't have any experience with it. I'll let you know how it works out.

My fish are used to big feed so I don't anticipate any problems. I'm curious to see what the pellets look like since I haven't been able to find any pictures of them. I normally buy 2 tons of food at a time, but this is kind of a test run to see if they work properly in my feeders.


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We hand-fed a lot of Aquamax LMB yesterday. The big CCs especially enjoyed it in their pond.


In the larger pond, big CCs and HSB tore it up, with the feed-trained LMB popping up here and there.

It's fun watching the fish nail that big stuff.


"Only after sorrow's hand has bowed your head will life become truly real to you; then you will acquire the noble spirituality which intensifies the reality of life. I go to an all-powerful God. Beyond that I have no knowledge--no fear--only faith."
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I want to try the new Purina LMB Food. My bass are dumb - never been feed trained. Will they eat this new food? Or am I just wasting my $$.

Do any of the commonly available feeders handle this large a pellet size?

Thanks


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Very few LMB figure out pellet feeding on their own. I think maybe 3 forum members, at most, have reported their non-pellet trained LMB have learned to eat pellets.


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I have one that has recently started eating the small cargill pellets. now I throw him purina kibbles and chunks and he eats em like crazy!!!! I think I remember reading on here that dog food does fish no good due to the feather protein that fish cant digest? Do I remember corectly?


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I wouldn't swear feather protein is the problem (it has been posted that chicken feathers is used in lots of fish food, too), but dog food is not nutritionally what fish need to grow and be healthy.


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For predator fish like LMB one key is fish meal or an equivalent. None of that in dog food. Dog food does not have the right lipids (fats) and proteins for predator fish.


Typical BG food




Catfish feed


















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Placeboman I have not seen a feeder that can handle the large size of the feed. Last I heard sweeney was working on one but I haven't heard anything else. What type of feeder do you have?

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A few points to cover here....

Sweeney is working on a feeder for the large bass pellets. They have a prototype throwing golf balls in their parking lot and we look forward to trying it very soon.

Dog food is designed for dogs - you are much better off going with fish food designed for the fish you are feeding.

Feather meal as a fish food protein source. There are two primary factors of protein quality for monogastrics (fish for this discussion) - 1) Amino Acid profile and 2) Amino Acid availability. The amino acid profile of feather looks pretty good if you look at the Total Sulfur Amino Acid content. It has a high content of cystine - a sulfur amino acid (SAA). SAAs can be limiting in monogastric diets and tend to be expensive to formulate into diets (they are relatively low in many inexpensive plant proteins). Unfortunately, the reason it is so high is because feather is a structural protein. The di-sulfide bonds between two cysteines make the protein very tough. This is what gives the keratins their structural rigidity - like our hair and fingernails. Unfortunately, this serves to make them very hard to digest. Therefore, as a rule, the availability is not so good. To increase the availability, feather meal is often hydrolyzed, this is an attempot to break down the disulfide bonds to increase availability. Shoe leather analyzes at 85% crude protein, but it is not digestible.

A word on protein sources.... Most protein sources are available in different qualities. This is particularly true for the expensive animal proteins - fish meal, poultry meals, blood meals, etc. Quality and freshness of the raw materials and the processing are factors that result in this variability. As examples:
A) Quality of Raw Materials: Meat meals are often priced on protein content - simply put, it is the ratio of bone (ash) to meat (protein). Bones (minerals, ash) are not as valuable as protein.
B) Freshness of Raw Materials: The US commercial fishing fleet for menhaden now has all refrigerated vessel storage.... the season is in over the summer, primarily in the Gulf of Mexico. Obviously, if it is not refrigerated....
c) Processing: Blood has a good amino acid profile. If it is drum-dried (essentially scorched on a extremely hot steel drum) it has poor availability and is a fairly poor ingredient. If it has been spray dried under low heat - it is an excellent ingredient.

High quality fish meal is the gold standard - it has the best Amino acid profile for fish (fish protein to grow fish protein)and is highly digestible. Further, it tastes great to fish (fish meal based diets are much more palatable to carnivorous fish) and it contains about 10% fish oil (high in omega 3 polyunsaturated fatty acids). Many other proteins can be used as long as they are formulated properly into an overall dietary amino acid profile.

Holler if you have questions. MEG

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Doc G can you give us some guidance on lipids (in pellets and or forage fish) as a necessary part of what carnivorous warm water fish (BG, LMB and HSB) need for winter survival ? Do most of them come from the fish meal (or fish oil in live forage) or elsewhere ?
















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Well, today I see that Yahoo has a story on the importance of omega 3 fatty acids for us humans. For most of us, the source is fish - salmon, tuna, sardines, etc. I have not seen the data - but, for winter survival, the idea is that fish oil is a fluid. This enhance membrane fluidity. This is often cited as a reason for the role of PUFAs with brain function/development. When the water gets cold, the fish get cold. Therefore, it stands to reason that these fats benefit the animals in cold conditions. If the overall fatty acid profile has too much saturated fat, their fat reserves will solidify in cold water - like tallow in cold water. These PUFAs are important in many other aspects besides the physical properties....

Predatory fish get these fats from the smaller fish they consume. They do not synthesize the long chain PUFAs. The source is from algae and these fats are passed on to algae-eating zooplankton and fish and move up the food chain. Menhaden are excellent sources of the omega 3 PUFAs, because they are fatty fish and about 25% of their fatty acids are the long chain PUFAs. So, in a prepared diet, you need either a significant amount of certain marine algaes, or fish oil or meal (approximately 10% of fish meal is fish oil - as a side note... this is because fish meal is mechanically expressed, so it does not get all the fat out. In solvent-extracted meals - such as soybean meal - there is vurtually no fat left).

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Testimonial!
I have been using the Aquamax largemouth since last summer and my bass have been tearing it up. I have wanted to post my experience, but words are cheap. So I asked Dr. Griffin to stop by my pond to see the action. He recorded it and it has finally been posted on the Purina website. A video is worth a million words - check it out at http://aquamax.purinamills.com/
Go to the link and click on the Fish and Aquatics Video.

Other observations:
I started feed training F1 bass in a small cage and started them on Gamefish chow. I later clipped their fin to mark them and released them in the pond. Last year I started them on the Largemouth Chow. They were eating it heavily within a couple days. And now my smaller native Largemouth bass also readily eat the pellets. I think they have learned from the older F1's.

I think you could also feed train the bass this time of year just by throwing a large pellet, one at a time, over thier spawning nests. The bass may attack the pellet as a defensive move.

I just have a great time walking the edge of my pond, spotting the bass, throwing a pellet and watching them hit it. Thats my happy place.


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Nice video! Thanks for posting, Gainesjs.


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I am feeding a mix of half Purina Gamefish chow and half Aquamax Largmouth. At least two generations of my largemouth are really tearing up the Aquamax Largemouth pellets now. They seem really tuned in on the large pellets and are eating them almost exclusively admist the Gamefish chow. When there is a handful of GFC floating and I throw in a single ALM pellet the LMB attack it as do the HSB. The bluegill keep trying to eat it too and will peck at it repeatedly at least until a LMB gets to it. It seems the BG would rather eat the Aquamax Largemouth than the Game Fish Chow. Any chance Purina/Aquamax produces or will produce the same formula in a smaller size for the bluegill and smaller bass? It seems the bluegill could benefit more from the 45% protein ALM compared to the 32% GFC.

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I'm seeing some similar things Ryan. My BG bump the largemouth pellets around and finally give up. My LMB and HSB will pick out the largemouth pellets from the other food I throw out. My HSB really hammer the stuff. I can throw it in one pellet at a time and most never bonce back to the surface. I should make a video of it.

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 Originally Posted By: Ryan Freeze
Any chance Purina/Aquamax produces or will produce the same formula in a smaller size for the bluegill and smaller bass? It seems the bluegill could benefit more from the 45% protein ALM compared to the 32% GFC.


I've been feeding my bluegill Aquamax 400. It's 45% protein. Very small in size so even the smallest bluegill can handle it.




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Thanks Tom, are you feeding the 3/32" or 1/16" size? I have all sizes of bluegill and don't want to mix more than 2 feeds. What size would be best?




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 Originally Posted By: Ryan Freeze
Thanks Tom, are you feeding the 3/32" or 1/16" size? I have all sizes of bluegill and don't want to mix more than 2 feeds. What size would be best?


For my bluegill I'm feeding the AguaMax 400 which is 3/32. All sizes from around 2" up eat it. The larger bluegill 8-9" love it. Even have a few LMB eating it. I do feed the larger sizes 500 and 600 AquaMax to my other fish but my bluegill prefer the 400.




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