Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations need a resource

About 10 years ago, Bob Lusk helped me with 5000 TF shad, we stocked. Due to comorants and feeding, we need to re-shad. Our pond is in Ellis, County Texas (30 miles south of Dallas). I never got the name of the hatchery Bob used and I need one that can deliver. Can anyone help with this request? Thanks........

Try Todd Overton at Overton Fisheries: http://www.overtonfisheries.com/

He's a good guy (and fellow Aggie).

We have a guy that handles all our Threadfin stocking. However, he just finished up with this years load. I could get you on the list for next year if you would like. Give Kathy a call at the office and I will be more than happy to help out.

Chad can you go over the timing of TShad stocking into ponds with predators ?

Sorry it has taken me a couple of days but such is life in the fish business. It's been busy.

Usually Threadfins can be stocked during Spring. There is a finite amount of time in which our supplier likes to transport and stock them. Usually as we get into late May hotter ambient tempretures prevent the transportation of Threadfins. Since we have had a cool Spring in Texas we had the ability to move fish later in the season.

The basic answer for Threadfin stocking is between March and early May. Of course there are always variables that come into play but that's the normal times.

As far as numbers go, that is a lot more subjective.

Chad and Eric, while you maybe be 100% correct about too hot to haul, we stopped last week ourselves but b/c the fish are not "running the banks". It try to time shad stocking when the fish are spawning. Other folks sell themm when temps are 60-80 range. We go a little farther. The hatchery calls me when they are up for spawning. This year was pretty typical with cold fronts, etc. and they would go back down after a cold snap, etc. It is difficult b/c we had to get 43 loads (4-5K mature fish) out between last week of March and 2nd week of May. I told clients just like you that we could get them on the list for next year when in reality I think they woudl haul just fine with a less than 3 hr run but they would not establish since they have already spawned out. my 2 cents

I have another take to add to Chad's and Greg's. When our clients wish to add threadfins, we want those fish to spawn as soon as possible. Hatcheries normally sell shad two different ways...full grown adults or young of the year. If the hatchery's shad made it through the winter, we can buy adults in spring. If not, it is late summer or even fall before young of the year are available. That's the hatchery side...with another twist. Some guys who sell shad actually have a permit to harvest them from public reservoirs when shad are "running the banks." These guys can catch lots of shad, haul them directly or stockpile them into smaller ponds to distribute over the next few weeks. Part of the reason there is a finite time to deliver shad is that there is usually a finite number of shad.
Now, for the consumer's side. Timing is really important. Remember that threadfin shad die when water temperatures drop into the lower 40's. As I recall, their lower lethal is 42. In north Texas and southern Oklahoma, that means threadfins will survive 4 of 5 winters. North of there, the odds drop, and drop fast.
So, pond owners must pay attention to the reasoning for stocking, their habitat and food chain for shad. Threadfins are primarily filter feeders, gleaning plankton from the water for nutrition. So, water should be fertile before stocking. Next, pond owners want shad to spawn, and spawn fast. So, we try to get them stocked as soon as the water is warm enough, and finish before shad have spawned out. That's the reason we push to finish by the middle of May around here.

Thanks guys. Here is a question I recently was asked. Any thoughts. Here are the facts.

A 13 acre pond in central MS with a plankton bloom (green to brown visa 18in +-) and existing BG/RES and LMB population all sizes (generally balanced to slightly LMB crowded). The pond was stocked with TShad (2 loads-16,000 fish +-) of adults on April 16. As per the hatchery they were about to spawn. Put in by pipe there were only a few floaters after 2 hours. Water temps probably about 65 degrees. A week later very few TShad (small school of about 30) were seen in shallow water. A week after that a few individuals seen. Since then no sign of them or yoy on surface or around the shallows. No thermocline and good water quality. No schools seen feeding. Fishfinder search was inconclusive. Pond has some plants in shallow water (pondweed , some reeds and lilies and some alligator weed and slight amount of FA on bottom) but no deep water veg. Has a number of brush piles surface to bottom. Fishfinder showed what appeared to be deepwater veg. (did not look like schools of fish but possible) in 8ft + of water near bottom. There once, later in a different place or in several places. Water temp now 75 with continuous bloom 14 -24 in visa.

What is you assessment ? Are the TShad still there or gone? Have they spawned if there ? What makes you have that conclusion?

Eric,
My experience says that 16,000 threadfin shad stocked into 13 acres with a good bloom will succeed, especially if fish population is balanced to slightly overcrowded. The only time you SHOULD see shad is immediately after stocking, until the population has established itself with young of the year. By late June to mid-July, you should begin seeing "flashing" in the middle of the lake, a sign that yoy shad are beginning to do what shad do...school and become visibly active. By mid-July, schooling bass should be feeding on the baby shad (which will be about an inch and a half long), followed by larger bass getting in the hunt, below the surface fracas.
My bet is that the shad are still there and even if their numbers are reduced by heavy predation, my bet is they will establish.
Here's how I justify those beliefs. First, let's assume, for argument's sake, 95% mortality. That means only 800 shad survive, out of 16,000. If those fish have the chance to spawn, and the 800 are adults, expect them to lay at least 800-1,000 eggs per female. If we assume 50-50 male/female fish, that means 400 females laying somewhere between 320,000-400,000 eggs. If the hatch is "bad" and you only get 20% survival, that leaves 64,000-80,000 babies which will feed on good plankton, head for open water and grow. Whatever percentage of those fish live 60 days, they will be sexually mature and be able to spawn. By that time, the original fish have spawned again. So, think in exponential terms...like the old story about a penny doubling every day. The first few days don't yield much, but just wait...
The second foundation for my belief is that I have done it enough to have seen this exact scenario time after time.
On the down side, I have stocked a number of lakes with lousy to zero blooms and overcrowded bass with countless numbers of threadfins, only to see them disappear like tootsie roll pops at a kindergarten party.
You can stock a lake like that all day, every day and never establish a shad population.
For shad to thrive, a lake must have reasonable numbers of bass living on a backbone foodchain of balanced bluegill numbers and fertile water.

Thanks Bob . I will pass that on and will watch and report the results. BTW that is exactly what the hatchery guy said in less detail. He said he had only seen 1 time when a pond like the one above did not work in 20 years. For infertile ponds he said it was iffy.

As a follow up the stocking did work well and 2 1/2 years later a thriving population of TShad exists. LMB RW has increased as have the size and number of larger LMB. Still a work in progress however. Avg BG size has decreased a little but that is partially a result of stocking some adult BG (appx. 1000 split over 2 times).