this is a long time coming, and fun for me to share with you guys.

i finally made contact and visited a somewhat local fish farm today (not easy to do around these parts). not a retail place, not open to public, he mostly supplies food industry (asian markets being the biggest purchaser), and pond and game fish stocking is only a minor percentage of his business. saw some tanks full of sturgeon, hybrid carp, CC, LMB, spotted bass, and BG. The sturgeon were really cool to see. Unfortunately he did not have any gams or RES ready for sale, but (JEFF) we can probably place order to pick up later this spring.

anyhow, i told him i was looking for a mix of BG from YOY to adult if he could spare them, and wanted to stock ~1,000 fish. He had recently seined his BG pond, and had 3 tanks with mixed age (2) year classes (~1" to 4" fish), he'd had such a good spawn last year that "they were on sale" ~0.30c a piece which was nice cause he quoted me 0.50c apiece last year. he was a nice guy to do business with and REALLY generous with the scoops. we counted one of the "lighter" scoops and it had 159 fish in it, so we figured i was getting about 150-200 fish per scoop. he loaded me up with 10 scoops (probably between 1,500 and 2,000 fish!) for $300.

we split them into two double thick plastic bags with about 5 gallons of water each, forced the air out then injected pure O2 and sealed them off, put them in styrofoam coolers. my drive time was about an hour back to my place.

I put the bags in the pond water to acclimate about 15 minutes, managed a couple pics, and then released my new brood into their wild new wonderland. wow, and only 6 little floaters, i am a proud papa this evening.

New friends for your other lepomis !!!

Now they will really get mixed up.

Congratulations, D.I.E.D.

Don't worry if you see a few more morts over the next couple of days; that seems like plenty of fish to establish a nice BG population.

Now you'll have to be on the lookout for a BG spawn later this year.

D.I.E.D, congrats you 'ole pegleg.

Do you feed at all?

D.I.E.D...You do realize those are all bullheads, don't you?
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Just kidding. :p I'm excited for you. I love those stockings. It just gets you all fired up for future angling adventures.

yup, really fired up bruce...thanks,

eric and theo, i'll keep an eye out for more floaters, our water is still pretty cold after the storms rolled through today. i am also going to watch intently as the water warms in the shallow area to see if there are any territorial disputes between my GSF war mongers and newcomers. as you might recall, after the gam population was established, i transferred about 29 lunker GSF from the ranch pond in June last year. The GSF had at least one good spawn, and this year there are hundreds if not thousands of YOY sunnies in the 1-2" range. I have not seen hide nor hair of the large ones (nor have i fished for them), perhaps they perished or just hid out in the deep end all winter. there was one floater late last summer.

there is good cover in the shallows for the BG which mostly range from 1" to 4" with a couple pushing 5". the fish farmer was confident the larger ones would spawn at least once, maybe twice this year. (well before my current YOY sunnies spawn). my plan is to allow at least one BG spawn, followed by a solid growth period (preferably two spawns) and then i'll likely introduce 30-50 3-4" class spotted bass either later this fall or late winter 2007-08 because i dont imagine the GSF will be able to keep up as the top predator.....but they'll have their shot for a while. what do you guys honestly think of this plan? dont hold back

sunil, i wont feed on a regular basis. i want the fishery established on its own legs. if (when) i have supplemental summer water i may reconsider, but i need to keep the nutrient load down in summer months, and the water quality and micro and macro organism growth is excellent in this area....lots to eat....after all the "recent former" RES world record came from just about 20 mi away......and am certain a near record GSF is swimming around the downstream ranch pond

Congrats D.I.E.D., your spots should grow to look like Sumo Wrestlers in no time at all when stocked. The W.R. should be off the chart.

Congratulations D.I.E.D.!!

Wow Dave, that is fantastic news! What a great price also. I'm sending you email regarding this. If the guy has any more BG I'd love to get some and I'd like to pre-order RES.

Congratulations my friend, I'm so glad this worked out for you. The photos look great!

I'm just curious Dave, why Spotted Bass instead of LMB? Just for something different or is there a method to your madness? As I said before I will be thinning my LMB population this year and if you ever want any LMB we can easily transfer them to your place. Just a thought.

Are you trying to knock me off the pond record GSF position?

i was gonna call this thread "A Bluegill Pond" but someone has already used that.....thanks for the congrats russ:)

FT, my ultimate goal is going to be large bream, but i figure some REALLY FAT and happy bass along the way wont hurt a thing.

jeff, here's my thinking,
a) the spots seem to do really well in this climate and water type, and i like to be different
b) they dont get as large as LMB, and perhaps spots (relative to LMB) might allow a slight expansion in the population of upper range BG size classes. after which,
c) if the larger BG size classes begin to dominate (which is good good good), then it is time to introduce a limited number of LMB to help keep balance in the upper BG sizes, forcing only the largest BG to get even larger.

it should follow that the GSF will track similarly to the downstream ranchpond. GSF overpopulation will be controlled by the fact that GSF do not spawn as much as BG, and the effects of spots may be much faster on the GSF. Smaller and mid-range GSF should have ample forage on Gams and smaller BG. Combined GSF and spots should place ample pressure on BG populations.

it seems to me this formula provides a long term growth in relative balance, at least 5 years (maybe more?) before the pond realizes bass overcrowding, stunting, missing bream year classes, and humungous BG and GSF (i.e. like the downstream ranch pond).

is that a bunch of crap, or does it make sense to anybody?

jeff, i will only submit to cecil a lunker GSF out of my pond, not the rancher's pond, so yer safe for a while my friend

DIED male only LMB would do the same as the spots but with no reproduction. Male LMB especially Fla LMB do not get real big. Maybe to cold for Fla's at your place. F-1 males may work. Spots and LMB will cross in the right circumstances IIRC. In your size pond seining and trapping over abundant BG or LMB should work. Do enough each year to get the balance you want.

I can really relate to this thinking...and I love spotted bass. They are one really neat fish. I have no idea what some of the management quirks would be, but if I could pull it off I'd attempt to have a pond for spotted bass.

My thoughts are that while LMB, BG and CC ponds are very fun, they are so typical for Eastern Nebraska that I'd always want to be unique.

i'm just not quite sure if i'm headed for a train wreck, or a somewhat unique way to achieve large bream........another major factor to consider is that until i have supplemental summer water the carrying capacity will be significantly affected each dry season if my 6-foot water level loss is going to be typical. the pond surface area shrinks from about 0.9 to 0.6 acre and max depth from 15 to 9. this will concentrate the fish and lead to free for all feeding with bass present. only the largest and smartest will survive.

ewest, although the pond is not large, i think it'd be really tough to seine because of all the rock structure along the basin floor, but i've never seined a pond, so i dont know, but i like the idea if the various populations dont do what i think they might if left on their own. perhaps the summer drawdown may serve that purpose?

it would be nice to have the choices around here to obtain various strains of bass, but i havent found them. i could pay HUGE shipping charges to say someone like Todd (which i might do for RES if i cant find any in the next 6 months ) the guy i met here yesterday has northerns and spotteds and thats it, but based on my experiences catching spots from local reservoirs, like you said bruce, they are a neat fish and might have a niche in BG population control that northerns or floridas pass right over....i think its worth a try......please dont call me dr. frankendave just yet....i wont earn that til the GSF cross with the BG and beget monster hybrid mongrels from el dorado

Cal. Smallmouth Bass aka Spotted Bass

FishBase

Micropterus punctulatus
Spotted bass

Inhabits clear, gravelly flowing pools and runs of creeks and small to medium rivers. Also occupies impoundments. Juveniles feed on small crustaceans and midge larvae while adults eat insects, larger crustaceans, frogs, worms, grubs and small fish .

EFish

Food Habits:
· Young eat microcrustaceans, insects
· Juveniles and adults eat crayfish, fish, insects

Reproductive Habits:
· Mature in 1-4 years
· Spawning occurs late April to mid-May in water that is 15-19°C
· In streams, nests at pool margins like smallmouth bass
· In reservoirs, nests on the bottom in somewhat shallow water
· Fecundity is 3,806-30,586 eggs per female
· Naturally hybridizes with smallmouth bass


I seine all the time with lots of rock , wood and other structure. It just takes a little practice. They have Fla and F-1s in Cal. I will check some more.

LOL Dave, it's a great feeling isn't it ! It won't be long before you're sampling them with a worm, then their offspring with a minnow trap (baited with bread).

I'm probably wrong, but i see you in the future...looking at those bgill, thinking "hmmm, coppernose grow how much bigger?" As the pure breds get to be 10", you will curse the GSF for cross breeding genes...but that's minor at this point, you have a dozen LMB that bust your 6 lb line easily...and you finally consider your original stocking as "food".

When you put a new batch in the pond it's just so cool isn't it? Wish you the best for your efforts.

eastland and bz, thanks for stopping by. its great to see old pros like you still get excited by a simple BG stocking, and after doing it i understand why....

the day i have consistent 10-inch gills i just may have accomplished all i set out to do

i've seen no coppernose advertised in CA, but would love to find a source. those pics George put up were awesome, and should make any pondmeister envious.

thanks for the details on spots ewest. reading the preferred food suggests i might consider starting a crawdad population. i have great rocky habitat for them, but i might not get anybody to join me swimmin this summer

i saw several swirls out there this evening, and sunil's comment hit home. i was wishin i had a handful of pellets for them....i think i'll visit the feed store this weekend so i can have some pond treats on hand. the fish farm used high protein trout feed for all his fish, but i didnt get a name or brand.

Dave,

It must be a great feeling to get BG stocked for the first time. That sure is a healthy looking bunch, too. Good luck on finding some RES.

All this talk about stocking is making me chomp at the bit. It will be another week or 2 before my fish broker has any BG and RES, and late May before he has LMB. So I'll have to tough it out for a while longer.

D.I.E.D.

I just read your post from yesterday about naming this thread. Not wanting to hog the "BG Pond" theme, I just changed my post to "A NY Bluegill Pond". Maybe you could start a CA Bluegill Pond thread. Plenty of room to pile on my friend.

Russ

Anyone correct me where I wrong, but doing some feeding now, if the bluegill will take it, may help in your overall survival rates.

I don't have any feeders at my pond because they would sprout legs and run away, but we do hand feed, and it's nice as a tool to see what comes up to eat.

I understand you're points about trying to limit nutrient load for low water times.

One day someone will make the jump from "A BG pond" to "THE BG pond."

Dave, I like your thought process regarding the Spotted Bass. Like you said it seems like your structure would be perfect for them and it would be a unique pond.

I have a seine that is 25 feet long and 5 feet deep that you can use anytime you need (when the time comes for that).

I'll call you in the next couple of days, had a busy day yesterday and another today (darn working for a living is interfering with my pond meistering... I hate it when that happens).

I am so happy for you my friend, this was a long time coming!

Oh and a PS, did you get any snow this past week? (I posted a photo of my place with snow).

bobad, i couldnt stop thinking about it for about the last year, hang in there, i am looking forward to yer first stocking pics...and yeah, they really were a feisty bunch.....just think, they were stuck in those bags all scrunched up next to each other sucking in PURE O2 for a little over an hour .....it's like i was looking in on a BG rave party when i cracked open the bags.

gentleman russ, yer thread is a true PB classic, and i certainly had no intention of getting you to change it. hell i cut my PB teeth reading that thread........ but since I inadvertantly got yer attention and you started the NY theme, i'll take it, i like it, and i'll keep this thread going to track my progress, and at some point, when the excitement of the stock has subsided, change the title as suggested. good deal.

sunil, today i found a 50lb bag of aquamax pro 42% protein floating food (was $30), seemed pricey but have never bought fish food before. its primarily for trout, but also lists for YP, HSB, red drum and "other omnivores". my only other option was lower protein catfish food, or REALLY expensive koi pellets. i bought it but found out its the larger pellets. fortunately they soften up after being in the water, but had no takers this afternoon.....coldfront comin in, fish down in the depths in the warm water. thanks for instigating even if you didnt know you did.....now we can have some fun with that after it warms a bit, and i probably wont use it during the hottest summer months.

i think a few of you guys already have THE BG POND, yer just too humble to say so.

jeff, i posted below yer photo, nice shot.....i remembered you have a seine, we'll have to do a seine survey this summer...after you get us some wine

DIED, grind up or break up a few cups of the pellets when you're ready to try feeding again.

Some will still float and some will sink - which they may eat first since it's easier to get to.

Must be nice having found bg that size to stock, gives you a jump start. That excitement that you are experiencing now will happen again when they spawn.
Enjoy.

thanks rad...i was pleasantly surprised to get them up to 5" as he usually sells 1-2" BG, but i hit the farm at the right time being able to get some from last years late summer spawn.

i asked my wife if i could use her nice granite mortar and pestle to mash up some fish food....and she said "why sure honey......NOT!"

Dave,
I had the same problem and what I can't figure out is how she can deny me my fish food when she mashes crab and fish that has been dead for weeks, smells so bad I won't let her in the house with it. I just shut up and soaked the pellets.

D.I.E.D., the nerve of your wife...I mean, it's all organic.

Dave,

I know you are interested in gams, so excuse the O/T. I have now netted and stocked 360 of the little guys in my pond. They are the only critters I have stocked so far, and my water is still pretty muddy. I noticed a little splash in 1 corner of my pond, and grabbed the dip net out of my truck to investigate. A single swipe of the net yielded 4 gams, and all 4 were fully grown and very pregnant. None were that big when I originally caught them, and only a handful were showing possible signs of pregnancy. It's funny there were so many pregnant females in that 1 corner of the pond. It's almost as though they congregate in a "maternity ward". Within a week, I think my 360 will be doubled, and that's in fairly cold, murky water. Good luck with your gams. I hope they are as busy as mine.

no excuse needed bobad, instead of making a bunch of new topics everytime i want to yak about something, following in Russ's footsteps,
i'll use this thread to track and report on the progress of all fish in the upcoming thread title change "An El Dorado BG Pond".

thats fantastic about the gams. my water has been too cold for alot of gam activity, but noticed they are hovering in primarily two places, 1) along the shore in submerged shallow grass and weeds as ML has said they would, and 2) all the way upstream in the incoming creek current (like mini trout or salmon) which will last only as long as the rains keep coming.

my numbers are way down from last year, but hopefully its just the cold, and the population will blossom come warmer weather.... i still plan on getting 1,000 more from the fish farm if that works out. i also noticed last summer that having some amount of (typically undesirable) FA or pond weed was critical to mosquito fish success in my pond. i dont have extensive shallow areas, the water is pretty clear, and i have really steep banks, so when the water begins to retreat from evaporation, good gam habitat shrinks fast, and the aquatic weeds are their only refuge.

it aint easy to get pics of those little guys, this is the best i've been able to do so far.

a quote from shorty taken from Illinois Longhorn\'s thread

so yeah shorty, that is a heck of an observation for me. this is as opposed to what i speculated on page 1 of this thread.........if i am attempting to manage for large bream, have alot of GSF and BG present, and add a limited number of bass (either spots or LMB) it sounds more likely i'll end up with a few gigantic bass and some really happy GSF as the bass try to recruit....hmmm.....it follows i may have a real hard time maintaining a stout BG population without adequate year round cover if both the GSF and bass are feeding on the BG. this is gonna be a real interesting experiment either way.

d.i.e.d - GSF are very agressive and can fit much larger prey items in their mouths than BG. When fishing for LMB at that community lake I like to throw the bigger soft plastic creature baits, one of the problems even with the bigger baits is you still have GSF trying to eat it up on almost every cast. Until the vegetation showed up at the community lake, LMB recruitment was very low and Wr's on the LMB were phenomenal.

It is not common to just GSF as it happens in BG stunted ponds also. I will find the prior thread where it is discussed. Not so much all the LMB yoy being eaten but also that the LMB sense the situation and won't spawn.

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=003757

so one possibility for me is to stock a limited number of bass sooner rather than later before the BG and GSF become too numerous. i was thinking later this summer into fall, but perhaps i really need to think about later this spring.

of course i may not have any fish left at all (quasi kidding) after today. bruce, you noticed some large eyes on some of my stockers......well i guarantee you every fish and frog in that pond had large eyes today and hopefully hunkered down somewhere deep:

the first three are from this morning:

a somewhat high but normal spillway action:


sediment basin doing its job separating muddy from clear water:


nice steady incoming water:


these last shots taken after several yellow and red doppler weather cells passed through this afternoon.....yikes!











even with the flow this morning, there were several stooopid bullfrog tadpole fighting the spillway current and losing, but i think for the most part the fish tend to lean upstream or hunker down in the calmer water.....lets hope!

Get out the inner-tube!!!

Looks like spring !!! Green grass and high tides forever.

Here they are surrounding the pellets.

thats some happy gams.
nice shot ewest!!

was this recent?

Wow, D.I.E.D. with that amount of runoff, my sediment basins wouldn't offer much assistance. Glad to hear your basins are working.

Wow Dave, those are incredible shots of both the incoming streams and the outgoing spillway. Based upon weather reports you are going to get more of the same over the next couple of days. My place may get more snow - - reports are indicating possible snow down to 2,000 feet again.

A question for the experts:
Both Dave and I have GSF, he has added BG (and I will as soon as possible) and we both want to add RES. What kind of cross reproduction can we expect. Based upon other threads I know that BG and GSF will cross pollinate or hybridize or what ever you scientific types call it. How will RES play into this? Will this sunfish soup result in a Red Eared, Blue Gilled, Green Streaked mongrel fish?

Looks nice! Makes me want to run out to my pond and try some feed... any excuse to get out in the great weather! Bye y'all!

If you have relatively clear water, your lepomis species will do a nice job of keeping their strains pure. It's generally in turbid water or otherwise stressful conditions that you see hybridization. I know of two different water bodies that I regularly fish that have bluegill, RES and GS, and I only very rarely see a hybrid. I've spent one hundred hours on one of these pits and caught over one thousand sunfish and have only encountered three known hybrids and they were all male BG X RES.

I've also got both species in three of my ponds and I even purposely try to encourage some hybridization by putting all male of one species and all female of the other and it's still hard to get crosses between BG and RES.

Now if you put BG and GS in the same pond with all males of one and all females of the other, well then, you've got a different story and you'll see tons of hybrids.

I really don't think it's anything to worry about if your water is fairly clear.

those with stronger GSF genes will look like this:


those with stronger RES genes will look like this:

OK I am starting on an archive on hybrid lepomis. When I finish it here I will copy it to an archive.

Hybrid lepomis - Childers lepomis cross %

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=000143;p=1#000000

HBG pics and questions

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000439;p=1

Long-Haired Hybridization

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=002154

RES/BG/GSF

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=001885


Bruce I sent you and Bill a study from U. of Ill IIRC where they put different sex RES and BG in small pools and produced many crosses and then moved them to ponds for several years. There are several threads here on this in addition to the above. I will find and add them.

Hybrid sunfish explained

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000373

BG/RES beds - crossing

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=001622;p=1

BG/RES/GSF/WARMOUTH

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000045;p=1

BG/ ID - male/female

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000318;p=1

D.I.E.D, Those stream pics are just a great example of DO "super saturation" in a concentrated area.

bruce and ewest, a sincere thanks for keeping this thread thoughtful, informative, and a good potential resource for others....despite my lame jokes

ted, so you noticed the "whitewater" coming over the upstream water fall and clouds of floating bubbles in that last pic.....this is a nearly pristine watershed so no phosphates or other detergents, septic systems, or other human impacts to water quality.....thats all O2. i just wish that stream ran all year round, unfortunately it does not.

sunil....thanks for instigating. went out just before sundown, the murkiness is clearing from our recent storms, threw out a few pellets and lo and behold they started moving! i found a nice flat rock and mashed a few handfuls, and had a nice little feeding. there were a few crickets under the rock i picked up, put those in to....kinda funny, too big for the little BG mouths and they chased those poor crickets all the way back to shore........so my babies survived the storm and like pellets too....yahoo!

Dude, they'll get big fast on feed once the growing season roles around, even with just some daily hand-feedings.

i tried feeding a few to some green sunnies down in the creek below pond, they would have nothing to do with it......the pellets didnt wiggle after hitting water i guess......so my question, up in pond, if the sunnies see the BG taking pellets, will i eventually have pellet trained sunnies?

Green sunfish around here will convert to pellets readily. I think that it's a given that having bluegill "model" for them will increase their rate of conversion. Green sunfish are opportunists and won't turn their noses up at a quick easy meal.

bobad, you know what's worse than waiting to stock the first time????

Stocking the first time, and then waiting to see the little buggers again. i stocked on Feb. 22nd, then we had a bunch of storms, i didnt see anything of them until march 2nd, they took some food, i was happy, now nothing since friday!?

patience all the way i guess.....it'l be warm soon and i'll probably have more BG than i know what to do with.

Dave,

I'm afraid I can top that. I stocked Sat Mar 3, and haven't even seen the pond since.

I may get a look see tomorrow if I can steal 30 minutes somewhere. My water is so muddy, I doubt I'll be able to see very much.

Hang in there Dave. Once the new guys settle in, I guess they will start feeding along the banks, and you'll be able to see more of them.

awlrighty then pondmeisters, it amazes me what each day brings to the table. woke up, had breakfast, started work, decided to check PB real quick (which is never easy to do) and saw ole jeff's report on his weekend stocking. whew, BG plus RES! what a score. so shutdown PB, called our friendly fish farmer, who said if you can get down here this morning i'll give you some of the same.

so i loaded up the truck with a transport cooler, and the official "RES Health and Safety -Official Protocols Kit for the Handling and Transport of RES", complete with guaze, band-aids, sterile alcohol, tailgate safety meeting forms, emergency numbers, route to hospital map, and recommended PPE (personal protective equipment). The recommendation for first time handlers is level B with supplied air, but i have a pretty good background handling GILLS, so i opted for level D, the usual, steel toed boots, hard hat, ear, eye, and hand protection.

jeff, i'm really sorry i forgot to tell you i had this kit, i would have loaned it to you, so instead, i will help pay yer medical bills if you dont quite cut it this tax season.

i became a bit dismayed but at the same time curious and excited when this was observed near the fish farm:



i got to fish farm, met with our fella, dawned the aforementioned PPE. Fortunately, i used to contract geological services with the DoD, and just happened to have both my alpha and gamma particle emission detectors behind the seat, so i put that on too.

thusly equipped we started scooping and sorting as he wanted to keep several good male and female for his own brood stock. as the detectors were vigorously beeping, i ask him where his stock come from and he curiously avoided the question but mumbled something about a nearby source.....and that he is the only supplier with RES in this part of the (sacramento) valley. he said dont mind the detector noise, he's lived here and been raising these types of fish for over 10 years with no problems, so i figured what the heck, i've really been wanting some of these in my pond.

as i was helping him hold up fish for sorting, i noticed an eerily beautiful irridescance in the fish, and a profound glare coming from their eyes. i found that if you talked really nice to them, told them how pretty they were, what a nice home they were gonna have, and that i was not their new master, but just gonna be the pond boy, i realized i didnt need my hard hat after all. In fact, i was able to remove my safety glasses, chaps, hearing protection, and even my double thick nitrile gloves, and didnt even get stabbed one time. it was then i realized, they actually liked me.....

in all he gave me about 20 beautiful adult fish. here are a couple of them before going in pond.









jeff, thanks for the kind words on yer post, WE DID IT MY FRIEND!

Oh sure and you send your old friend Jeff into to battle with only a T shirt, worn blue jeans and tennis shoes?

Great photos Dave, we did "get er done" and this summer we should have both BG AND RES a plenty! At 5:00pm we should simultaneously crack open a beer and toast our new arrivals. Cheers my friend!

PS If I don't stop messing around on this forum I'm never gonna get taxes done. Note to self: Back to work you laggard!

From the other thread:

quote:

.........if you think strange goings on are behind Condello strain RES, wait'l you see what may be behind the RES Jeff and I got...Take a gander at the piccs over on my thread....

Great, just what we needed-a bunch of overindulged, glow in the dark RES from California.

Question for Dr. Bruce-Can D.I.E.D's RES survive on a vegan diet?

there's a strange glow coming from the deep end of my pond this evening.

shoot......missed you by a half hour jeff.........better late than never, so as my grammie used to say while tipping her adult beverage of choice to mouth....."here's how!"

Man, you guys scored big time! Congrats...and, please be very careful.

Burger those towers look a little like Grand Gulf don't they !! They grow big BG and RES there also.

ewest, thats Rancho Seco. Used to provide ALOT of cheap (and clean) energy (although i know i'm buckin for an argument there) for greater Sac area. Was shut down some months after Three mile island over knee-jerk safety concerns, and rates have only gone up since then.

there is, i've been told, about a 60 acre lake near the cooling towers open to public, it is suppose to have the biggest gills in the area.....hence my stupid little story.... one of these days i'm gonna try it out and make sure to report for PB. it lies only a few miles as crow flies from the fish farm

Yes, that glow in the dark, too. Now that is not nearly as unsightly as the several thousand wind turbines needed to take it's place.

just before sun left pond surface this afternoon, caught nice look at probably half the stocked RES (~10) sunning above the creek channel digout in upper part of pond. threw some crumbled chow their way and......funny......they all turned looked at me, looked at the food, and turned back into the slight current and kept sunning......damn they're stubborn

the water has warmed up about 5 degrees last couple days, and the BG appear to be grouping by size class....several schools of similar sized fish noted around pond edges. have not seen the larger ones, its mostly all the 1-3 inchers doing this.

heybud and bobad, good news, there was noticeably increased gam activity with increased temps the last couple days......seems like around 55 degrees is a general threshold above which fishy activities are more noticeable and on the rise.

Wow good to hear that "fishy activities" are on the rise. Must be something to see those RES and BG in the pond. I had to leave the day after I put my stock in so I only saw the 22 floaters and that wasn't much fun!

Looks like you're in for a week of warmer temps. It'll be interesting to see what observations you have this week. Keep posting what you see, I'm living vicariously through you!

thought this (thread) would be a good place to document some observations since i am watching closely since stocking.

so get this jeff, yesterday, spring day, good and sunny-low wind, air temps near/at 70, all day-lots of schooling BG, visible RES and gams, 10 gazillion bullfrog tadpoles (these guys were at a density of something like 100 per sq ft around shoreline yesterday).

overnight, small weakening front coming in, high clouds this morning, air temps in low 60's......there is NOTHING around the shorelines today......we all hear of how low pressure systems or fronts affect fishy activity, but this kind of slayed me on my walk this morning. there's a few tadpoles hitting the surface out in middle of pond, but in effect they (and fish) all disappeared overnight.....

So does it look like you still have plenty of Gams?

Must have been a great sight to see all of the schooling BG!

i'm still not 100% sure on the gams, there are definitely some, just nothing like (late) last year (a few little handful sized schools instead of many swarming clouds). But, probably, i just need to wait for warmer weather before really knowing....patience, patience, patience i keep telling myself.

It is really nice to see BG in the pond.

On a new subject regarding spawning habits, I need to learn a lot here.

My understanding is that

a) BG exhibit rolling spawn....i.e. spawn all summer

b) GSF spawn once or twice depending on geography, here, definitely twice if not more.

c) RES..???????like BG? or like GSF? or somewhere inbetween????

if anybody like mr. cody, or ewest, or theo, or bruce, (or anybody knowledgeable on the subject) is still reading this thread, can you point me in the proper direction to study a little about BG/GSF/RES spawning habits?

I think it will be quite significant to the RES that they are currently much bigger than any of the BG planted, so hopefully they (the RES) will get a really good spawn or two before the BG begin to take over through shear numbers later this year.

i'm not sure how this will work in yer pond jeff with the presence of higher numbers of adult GSF. will they be competing for the same spawning grounds? will the GSF only spawn once in spring and leave the spawning beds open for the RES to spawn more than once?

Do GSF have rolling spawn all summer here? i know my GSF spawned in late summer (i'm not certain i have any adults left), so you can bet yer GSF spawn will be at least twice this summer.

this will be interesting jeff, no doubt.

Redears spawn once a year, maybe twice if you're lucky.

thanks theo, so it is probably a great thing that the few RES are currently much bigger than all those BG i put in, plus they should be ready to spawn when temps get to where they need to be.

they should spawn twice here i would think. we have 90-100 degree days going into October....its a long growing season here.

This should help.

http://srac.tamu.edu/tmppdfs/173593-724f...c096684437a2464


Redear sunfish
The redear sunfish, also known as
the shellcracker, is often stocked as
forage in conjunction with the
bluegill in the Southeast and in other
waters that remain turbid. Bass may
not be able to readily see their prey
in these waters and as a result,
bluegill may not be satisfactorily utilized.
The redear is less prolific than the bluegill and since their young
compete for food, may help reduce
total sunfish reproduction.
Redear sunfish
The principles of redear production
are similar to those utilized in the
culture of bluegills. However, redears
do not adapt to formulated
feeds as readily as bluegills because
of their more predatory nature.
Artificial diets can be fed at 0.5 to
2 percent of body weight depending
on temperatures. Ponds rich in zooplankton
and aquatic insect life
should assist in increasing production.
Hybrid sunfish crosses utilizing the
redear sunfish as one parent should
not be cultured or stocked as a
forage fish. The reproductive potential
of these hybrids is greatly reduced
and the resulting offspring are
insufficient for sustaining a bass
population.


Once water temperatures reach
appropriate levels, spawning will
begin. Warmouth and green sunfish
are the first to spawn, with
activity beginning at 70 oF (21 oC).
Redear spawn when water temperature
reaches 75 oF (24 oC),
whereas bluegills do not spawn
until temperature reaches 78 to
80 oF (26 to 27 oC). All species
begin nest building and territorial
behavior at temperatures several
degrees cooler than the optimum
spawning temperature.

My guess is that as the water temp warms up you will have Gams a plenty much like last year. However we both now have lots more predators to thin the Gam herd.

My pond has a lot of area for potential spawning ground. The entire east end of the pond (an area of probably 1/2 to 3/4 of an acre) is 7 feet deep or less, has plenty of cover and has a gentle sloping bottom. This is were it seemed like the GSF were primarily spawning last year. I'm fairly certain that I had two GSF spawns last year also. I netted fish in Sept and Oct that based upon their size differential I kinda figured there were from different spawns. I'm new at this though so I can't swear to it.

I'm sure thought there will be competition for spawning beds at some level. The size of the RES that we put in were comparable in size to the small GSF that I caught last year. The RES have some growing to do before they match the size of the larger GSF I was catching. Based upon my reading though eventually the RES will get significantly bigger than the GSF and therefore may "bully" the GSF.

The BG in my pond will be an entirely different story. The will have to run the gauntlet of the LMB, GSF and to a lesser extent RES. I'm certain that I will lose a lot of my BG to predation but then again they are forage base. I do believe that the LMB and the GSF will eat their share of BG. In my pond the BG that survive will have to be some tough fish. The largest of the BG that we got may be too big for my larger GSF to eat but then again I was amazed at the size of lure that the GSF would stike. Pound for pound it seems like the GSF have a huge mouth when compared to BG and RES.

Last year I caught quite a few 13 to 14 inch LMB. I have no doubt that those guys are quite capable of eating any of the BG that we stocked.

The water temps issue will be interesting. Last year I didn't record any water temps (stupid me). Therefore I have no idea when our ponds will reach 70 degrees do you? May possibly?

If the water temps must reach 78-80 for BG to spawn it seems to me that they won't begin spawning for at least a full month after GSF and probably a couple of weeks or so after the RES. I am just too ignorant of when our ponds will reach those temperatures and how quickly they will rise in temperature. Since I'm about 1,000 ft higher in elevation there may be some variance between our two places although based upon our recent comparison of surface temps it didn't seem like we were any different.

Do you have any ideas or info about average monthly water temps?

With your fancy testing equipment it would be interesting if you ran monthly tests on your pond for temp and chemical analysis and kept track of it (hint, hint). I'd also like to (on a 2 or 3 occasions during the year compare readings at your pond to readings at my pond to see the similarities and differences between our ponds. I intend to keep a cooler stocked with your favorite beverage along with a supply of BBQ ready food to lure you over the hill this year.

as always, ewest, thanks.....i figured you guys would have that knowledge available so quickly it would save me a little bit of research time.

since the forum recieves very little detailed info on lepomis habits west of the sierras, jeff and i will hope to add to that knowledge base as best we can......so yes jeff, this is the year to monitor temps. i've already started a little spreadsheet with my first measurements and will add to it throughout year.

i've already blown it with the RES, i didnt get any actual pre-stocking length and weight measurements. I'm curious what their average Wr was at stocking. i didnt want to take up the fish farmers time with my pointy hat measurements, and after the long ride home, didnt want to stress the fish any more than they had been....i'm just enough of a rookie here, but maybe they would have been fine?

anyway jeff, it might behoove us to be ready to take length and weight measurements and track the growth as we (hopefully) catch these fish in the near future.

You might want to leave the weeds in yer shallows this year just for the RES and BG, and me and my fancy equipment are ready, you wont have to lure us too hard

DIED you have pics. Look at the pic , measure that part of your finger (actual vs pic) that is visible in the pic and estimate length from the pic. Then go to the Wr table at the link below. I would guess from the pics and because they just came from the hatchery they were at 100% Wr. There is your ball park starting point.

Wr for LMB , BG and RES link (Southeast )

http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-1193/

While this starts at 6in for RES I will look tonight to see if Fisheries Tech 2d or another publication has Wr below 6in.

Heck, Eric - that's the first RES RW table I remember seeing at all. Thanks for linking!

dittos theo.....printed out and in my pond file as we speak.......awesome eric, thanks,

i used my original high res pic for measuring, (same as the second RES pic on the previous page), and got 4.5 inches from the (last) wrist wrinkle to end of thumb, which makes the fish 6.5 to 7 inches and 0.2 to 0.3 pounds of irradiated attitude

fish is curved in pic, so i figured probably a half inch error margin........take note jeff...

DOH, I never thought of weighing and measuring the RES before I released! Dang, what an novice mistake! Then again, the RES drew blood just picking him up to photo.... had I attempted to weigh and measure I might have lost an appendage or two.

I am going to track anything that I catch this year. Last year I only "noted" the length and weight of the larger LMB and GSF. This year I intend to track everything that I possibly can.

I have an abundance of weeds, in particular Elodea. I had way, way too much coverage last year. I am going to eliminate a lot of the Elodea this year through chemical control but I will still leave in plenty for hiding places. I haven't decided exactly what chemical to use yet but have narrowed it down (based upon posts on these forums) to a couple. The only thing that I did last year to control the Elodea was manual removal. It was back breaking work (wet Elodea is very heavy) but I managed to clear some areas out. I've been reading about water lilies on this forum, it seems there are a few of the less invasive species that might be interesting. Eventually I would like to substitute some of the Elodea with lilies. I think they look much better than Elodea.

As you and I discussed recently I think that I might be getting some nutrient run off from the vineyard that is above my pond. Although it is "down stream" from my spillway I have a feeling that when the spillway retreats with the warmer weather it may carry some of the fertilizer backwards into my pond. Is this possible? My spillway is essentially just a stream out of my pond and around the dam. It doesn't have a "water fall" type of separation. I'm thinking of adding something between my pond and the spillway stream. I noticed that you have a concrete structure that creates a water fall type drop. I'd like your input on that set up Dave. I am concerned that as the vineyard gets fertilized (let alone future pesticides) that I will get some intrusion into my pond.

I intend to pick your brain some this year so I'd glad that you will be lure-friendly!

Those measurements (6.5 to 7 inches) sound correct to me.

Ewest, thanks for the table. That will be very useful. I'm going to search to see if I can find a similar table for GSF.

Looking at the data that I kept for my LMB shows that they were only at about 78% RW prior to the introduction of the BG and RES. Between introducing more forage, slot removing bass (from what I've read pull out anything less 12" for a while) and removing the excess weeds (too much cover for the forage fish) I hope to see improvement in my LMB RW this year.

I'm not expecting trophy bass by any means but it would be nice in a year or two to catch some 3 to 5 pound LMB. (A one pound RES or BG would be a welcome catch also.)

Sorry for having a flash back but I've been pondering this (like I don't have enough to think about during tax season). I'm wondering if you might want to consider adding the Spots sooner. You mentioned that you don't think you have adult GSF anymore. If that's the case then you don't have any BG predators (except possibly the RES, which from what I've read will only eat the small fry at best). With 1,500 to 1,800 BG added you your pond and a distinct possibility that you will have at least one spawn this year, you may have a BG population explosion! Gregg at the fish farm said that the larger BG that we got will be ready to spawn by May or June this year.

Maybe I'm just impatient to see spotted bass swimming around your pond.

In the link Eric provided for relative weights I see where Dr. Anderson is listed under references. He also wrote a small article in this months magazine.

thought i'd post an update.

my new babies are very active. i think i've seen some of the RES schooling with the larger BG. i posted elsewhere (and repeat here) that the gams are forming small pods of about 10 to 20 fish, hovering around shorelines, and seeing small BG "hunt" the pods.

Pond turtles are active, have counted three so far. Big old adult bullfrogs back along the shores kershplunking into pond when you walk by. The biggest crop of bullfrog tadpoles I’ve ever seen in my life…..

The pond……..ITS ALIVE!!

surface water temps are climbing from 50 in early March to about 60 as of today. interesting note......my first water quality measurements on 3/1/07 showed pH ranges from 7 to 7.25 following some big storm events. with little influx of fresh water since, the average pH of pond lies somewhere between 7.73 and 8.98. i was encouraged at the natural increase in pH, EC and TDS with the water sitting and evaporating some. EC is now between 190 and 263 which "indicates" the alkalinity is up as well. (see this thread for explanations of water quality parameters…….which BTW ewest…..should have been placed into the archives because of ewest’s posts……ewest…..

with our recent 80 degree weather am getting a good plankton bloom, nice light green water, fairly low visibility, and aquatic weed growth being inhibited for now.

had one RES floater a couple days ago, cause unknown, but a kingfisher has been hanging around. i didnt see any puncture marks, but he could have been stunned.

eric in NY.....i've complimented you in the past on yer patience to wait on fishing yer pond......i have a better understanding now of how you could do this. since Sunil got me to throw some chow in the pond, i'm getting the darndest kick out of this and cant wait to go feed them again. at the moment, feeding is much more enjoyable than the thought of fishing for them....dont know if i could withold fishin for 3 years or whatever you've done eric.....i generally go out after working, about same time every day 5-530 pm, dig a few worms, which is how i got them trained to really take the feed, throw out some mashed pellets and reward with some worm chunks......its an absolute blast!! (advanced pondmeisters please constrain yerselfs.......ahhhh, go ahead make fun.....)

had the biggest feeding by far this afternoon, and thought it worth mentioning….i had about a 30 x 30 foot area exploding with hungry gills taking mashed aquamax……what a kick!!!

jeff, in response to yer reply up above, i thought about an earlier stocking of the bass......i still think i will wait until the new guys have clearly spawned at least once. like DD1 said somewheres else...."i want the bass to be able to go sleep with their mouths open, and wake up with full bellies".

keep pondering jeff, its a healthy break from Uncle Sam's meat hooks.

:D
Ain't that the truth. Between tax interviews yesterday I was reading "A Tax Practitioner's Guide to Cost Segregation Methods to Facilitate Rapid Depreciation of Components of Commercial Buildings." How's that for some light reading.

I'm always pondering. It must be great to see the schools of BGs chasing the gams. Sorry to hear you lost a RES. I've probably lost some too. As long as we have a few survive to start a RES population I'll be happy.

It was interesting to hear how fast the water temperature climbed. 10 degrees in 14 days, wow! At this rate you may have spawning temperatures by the beginning of April!

D.I.E.D

Sounds like you are having a good time feeding your fish. It will be another month before I attempt to feed.

do you feed by hand or use a feeder?

it is a blast russ....i guess i never really thought about it and was gonna let the little guys fend for themselves, now its a much anticipated part of my day AND can be combined with cocktail hour

one problem though, the local feed store only had aquamax 600 on hand (and a low protein catfish chow). i wish i had them order me a bag of 400. hand mashing 50 pounds of 600 may get old.

i also found a small (3-inch) BG floater this morning, and wonder if he choked on a pellet. he had no other marks or abrasions. i should have done some larval trawling, but tossed him back in before i thought of it.

i'm keeping my eye out for this, it was the only reason i can think of besides being stunned by the resident kingfisher.

Dave,
I was going to let mine fend as well, especially after reading about all of the natural that was available for small fish. But, after two days of worry that they were starving I bought some aquarium style food and haven't missed a day since. Everybody that sees them feeding for the first time can't resist trying their hand a throwing food, kids included. Many times a coctail is part of the process. For me it is a time when the sun is going down and the day is starting to cool. It's just plain fun to watch.

Dave, you and Rad are getting me excited about feeding. I had no plans to feed, but I'm sure food is scarce in a brand new pond with muddy water. I may get just 1 bag of feed, which should be more than enough to last until the insects become plentiful.

my buddy who helped me dig out the pond came over yesterday and thought it was a hoot. all those little guys lookin up at us WAITIN FOR FOOD HERE DAAAAD

bob, you'll get hooked. like rad said, sun goin down, mirror like water, fish food in one hand, cold beverage of choice in the other.....happy fish making boils all over......good stuff.

make sure to get the right sized pellets though

Sounds good! You talked me into it! I think I'll call it "Happy Hour".

I was at my lake yesterday and went to a spot where I'd seen a LMB spawning last year. Sure enough there was one there this time - looked like the eggs had been laid and the male (?) was there guarding the nest. I had about twenty 2" live worms and started tossing them in. The LMB didn't "hammer" them, but it did stay right there and eat them one-at-a-time as I tossed them in - 5' away. LMB was about 2#. Kinda interesting and fun.

rmedgar.....i get a real kick out of watching the fish eat. some of the BG just cruise and take pellets, others stay low, watch a pellet for a second, than thrust up and attack it like bug, and quickly dive back down in the depths with their catch....funny.

an update on pond water, for anybody following this rag (jeff.... ).

pH ranging from 7.54 at creek entrance in sediment basin to an average of 9.61 in main pond body. i was really surprised at this increase in pH. EC and TDS up as well where highest values were 447 and 224, respectively. i wonder how much higher these values will get in our arid climate this summer?

water temps up as well, maximum measured surface value at 64.0......just about spawning time? they should be getting ready anyway.

jeff, i assembled that aqua view camera this weekend, charging the battery, and gonna find out what the deal is this coming weekend....RES and bigger BG on beds? any remaining adult GSF? blobs of FA starting on pond bottom? my visibility is still pretty low from recent warm weather plankton bloom, so i hope the camera works out.

pond getting a drink of thunderstorm rain as i type this, will my little guys take feed in the rain? i'll know in about 20 minutes...

D.I.E.D., one thing I noticed when I first used my AguaVu...when you first start viewing the montitor, it's pretty tough to tell how far out, distance-wise, that you can see. I found that zoning in on stationary objects just didn't give me a warm/fuzzy that I would actually be able to see a fish with in the field of view.

But be patient. When a fish does show up, it'll be real obvious, and more detailed then you might have first imagined.

Sounds like we are getting close to a spawn temperature wise!

Fantastic! I have one too. This should be fun. Even if the water is too murky right now I figure when we have the crystal clear water later in the year that we should be able to take some good video.

Keep posting, I'm reading!

sunil, the only thing i've figured out so far with the aqua vu is how ugly i am on TV

i believe its one of the lower end models, small B&W screen display, but i was impressed with the clarity and detail of the camera pic in my living room......and hope that translates for the underwater viewing.


you got it jeff, even if everybody else across the country is bored to tears.....too bad.....this MY thread

Aw, what do they know, bunch of green sunfish haters.

thanks theo, ewest, george, mr. mcbutterpants, and anybody else i forgot to mention here, to provide some detailed convention reporting, descriptions of forum members, etc.......i know i missed a good time.

i went out to pond this evening with my wife in an attempt to "sample" the species distribution, and size of my fish.....as my sampling rig i used my small (backpack) fly rod with about a #14 size fly (crimped barb), and small worm chunk(s) pinned to the end of the hook and doused with a little "kokanee gel" [anise].....wow, did it ever work!!

based on the catch, here are the following observations:

last years stocking of lunker GSF (July 06) has resulted in a large crop of YOY GSF reaching 4.5 to 5.0 inches!!!!!!!!! with beautiful body condition (small eyes relative to body size) and fat stomachs. most averaged 3.75 to 4.0 inches and i'm thinking some of the big ones that measured between 4.5 and 5 inches will spawn this year......i think this is amazing.

the BG are growing nicely, most caught were 4.5 to 5.5 inches. the BG have split into two major schools in the upper portions of the pond, one on the east side, the other on the west side. no BG were caught around the shorelines of deeper water by the dam, everybody is hanging out in the shallower upper end of pond. i've been feeding the west side, and indeed, they averaged about 0.5" larger than those caught on the east side.

NO RES takers by fly, i am not surprised, although i did see a couple larger ones (~7 inches) cruising the flats by the sediment dam.

yesterday my wife and i used our aqua vu camera for the first time. we inspected the aeration diffusers, saw a vast forest of aquatic weeds, saw some of the BG stockers near the boat (which was really cool to be in the middle of the school), saw mats of FA growing on bottom not yet detached......saw no lunker adult GSF stockers from last year. i am impressed with the camera, but its tough if wind blows and you cant sit still.

well, this evening while sampling with my fly rig, i caught a 9.75-inch GSF, that boga'd just a hair under 1 pound.........one of the original stockers that probably lost a little weight and is certainly gaining it back.....it had a beautiful body condition and could have knocked jeff's greenie of cecil's list.......but hey, i'm a nice honest guy right? who didnt raise this fish from a baby, didnt have a camera, and will wait patiently for the next time

i dont know or really care if anybody is following this stuff, but its nice to have a place to document it. watch yer back jeff

Hey Dave, I'm following this thread with interest and maybe a little envy. My BG still aren't doing very well, and I'm getting worried. Your camera sounds like a lot of fun.

Dave,

Great update. It sounds like the BG are growing nicely. I hope mine are fending for themselves. It's a fish eat fish world in my pond so who knows what has become of the BG or RES.

So it seems like you were satisfied with the Aqua Vu overall. Do you think it will be a useful tool around the pond?

Next time get a photo of your lurker GSF, sounds like a nice fish. My record won't hold for much longer anyway and I can't think of anyone I'd rather get knocked of by. Besides at least El Dorado County would still hold the record.


I don't worry about that too much. Most folks don't pay attention to 98% of what I post. I post some of the most ridiculous stuff and don't even get a reaction. Kinda cracks me up. I did a post about using lop eared rabbits as forage base - - nothing. I did a post in which I inserted as many goofy acronyms as possible - barely a blip on the radar screen. Big brother may be watching but he aint' watching me so I'm not too worried.

Moderator's Note: No Lop-Eared Rabbits were harmed in the making of this post.

bob, why do you think yer BG arent doing well? except for GSF, i've never seen a tougher fish with more adaptation ability than a BG.

the camera was a "freebie" when i bought our fishin boat two years ago and it sat in the box until last week :rolleyes: it is cool, but i'm not sure i would recommend spending $2-300 for one unless you had a specific use and purpose other than just something to have occassional fun with. in general trying to find fish with it is not easy, or maybe i havent really figured it out yet. the best viewing was lowering it all the way to bottom, focusing in on some weeds, and then SLOWLY trying to drift in a particular direction. i realized it would be nice to measure off markers on the camera cord to monitor depth....it could be used to map a pond bottom, so yeah for the right applications it could be a very useful as a tool for the pond.

jeff, since those lunker GSF did their lunking growth in the ranch pond, and even though it seems i maintained their lunker status since last summer, i probably wont submit to cecil until its a fish wholly raised in my pond, i just like bustin yer chops a bit

and BTW, i saw those posts you referred to and LMAO, but as ususal i rarely if ever have anything clever enough to reply with. i got about as much wit as a dozer blade. yer twisted sense of humor (almost) rivals theo .....stay on those meds dude!

I suppose it's because the BG's live in muddy water, eat a main course of mud, and eat mud for dessert.

I started feeding them about a week ago, so maybe they'll snap out it it. I think there should be insects in the pond in a week or 2.

Dave, you were right about feeding. It's addictive. My wife really likes to feed, and watch the FH minnows gorge themselves. I guess you really know your BG are in trouble when the FH intimadate them.

Oh, and my FH are gravid. I just hope there are sufficient spawning places.

DIED I am following this also. Do you have the camera attached to a poll. They make adjus. 8-16 ft pole to fit the camera and it really helps me. Easy to turn the pole and hold it still. You could easily make one. The cable is marked in 1 ft increments (see the writing on the cable) - they are 1 foot apart on mine.

I have a chore for you. Those cameras have the ability to take pics/video with an out cable. I would like to learn how to do that. Can you figure it out and tell me how ? Take a pic or video (like Wood's) of your GSF and post it.

D.I.E.D., I marked up my AquaVu camera cable for depth.

ewest, there's an output jack on the viewing console, and that's where I believe you can hook up a camera or video recording device. I'll have a look at mine and see what's up. BTW, I've never done that yet (take photos or video with the Aqua-Vu).

aint hand feeding a kick bob? every evening they're eagerly waiting in the same place, you chuck a handful in, and the water boils....i love it. they know when i have some worm chunks for them cause i get close to shore, they suspend right in front of me anxiously waiting and wagging their tails like little dogs, it cracks me up. i suspect yer BG will indeed soon snap out of it.

nice sig. sunil

i didnt notice markings on my cable but will look closer.

i read the manual about capturing video, mine has the output jack, but i dont own a camcorder. maybe i could figure a way out to connect our nikon digital camera?? you bet ewest, if i figure something out i'll be sharing here. i think jeff has the right stuff, he mentioned something about getting videos later this year.

funny you mention the pole....as we were viewing the BG school near boat, i said to my wife what we need here is a camera boom...i have one of those tablock extenders for painting, i may try to rig something up with that, in a way that i can use it horizontally and still pay out the cable to change depths, and also use it vertically to help control camera direction. i noticed it was really hard to tell which direction the camera was facing and to keep it from swinging around. the camera came with lead/steel ballasts and a fin, but i didnt put those on.

Yep, my wife pretty much set me up for my birthday. I have an Aqua Vu that records depth and water temp. It only records B & W not color though...everything will be in grey scale.

The extending pole is available for $29.00, is designed to attached directly to the camera and extends to 13 feet.

Some video recorders have a connector and using the right cable between the Aqua Vu and the video recorder you can record video from the Aqua Vu directly into your video recorder. Basically you must have a video recorder that has the correct port (I think it's a 5 pin port) and the correct cable.

Or another alternative, the one I am using, is that Aqua Vu sells digital recorder that is available for $99.00. It records 15 minutes of video on internal memory or onto a memory chip. You can purchase media chips (available for about $20~$25 that will record hours of video) to extend the length of video that you record. The digital recorder has an "out" cable that will connect directly to your TV and then you can play the recorded video on your TV. Or with a media reader connected to a USB port in your computer (approx $15.00) you can put the memory chip into the media reader and download the video to your computer.

My wife did tons of research and found that the best source for both the pole extender and the digital recorder was this place. They had the best price, were very friendly and it shipped quickly...

Aqua Vu accessories

I plan on taking lots of video of my pond this year. Since I purchased my property with the pond already in existence I don't know what the bottom contour or structure is like in the deep end of the pond (approx 17 feet). I have swam down to the bottom once but wouldn't do it again - once you get down to about 12 feet ya can't see anything and because of the mountain springs feeding the pond the water is COLD (even in summer).

I'll get some video captured and posted this year.

We'll get the rig over to your place also Dave so we can get video in your pond. I have a feeling that with your feeding regiment you are gonna have some big BGs later this year.

good link jeff, thanks.

our rainbucket measured a cold 1.9 inches of rain here yesterday (in a about 2 hours!!) and some minor thunderstorms this afternoon, so our ponds got a nice shot of fresh water.

that brings me up to 23-inches on wet season which is still only about 60% of normal for our elevation.

Jeff thanks for the info. Once you get it down I will need a few lessons. With no light penetration into the water below a few feet color is not important.

I've been watching that storm and wondering how it was going up there. I wonder how much the introduction of cold rain affects pond water temp? Of course I am assuming that it will drop the pond water temp but by how much? Will this delay spawning?

Once I have some video I'll post a thread that will link to my photobucket account that will contain video clips. I will also post what equipment I used and how I used it. We have software that we use to import and edit video and I'll post about that also. With the software you can capture a single frame of video for a still image.

The Aqua Vu that my wife got me does have little lights on the fish/camera but I'm sure not enough to properly illuminate fish to show color. That plus the added cost of color was the reason for B&W.

Yes red and green IR lights no color. They also work great for sticking in beaver holes (via the pole) to see what is there. Just don't stand right in front of the hole as they escape. Big teeth and claws propelled by 30 pounds of attitude are not a thing to trifle with.

:D

ewests warning on beavers prompted me to research if the aqua vu co. has developed an RES camera guard, i couldnt locate one on the net, jeff, we'll probably have to manufacture one

jeff, our recent cold snap is probably just a blip on the radar, temporarily cooling surface water, but probably not affecting spawning time, its jumping back up into 70's today, and according to local forecasts will remain there for the next week. it did however throw off hand feeding for a couple days.....we had sustained 20-30 mph wind all day yesterday, but thats calming too.....i hope to feed this afternoon for the first time since Sunday evening.

After my RES mauling I'm thinking of investing in Kevlar gloves.

Good to know the water temps are holding.

I've been trying to read posts daily, only 12 more gruesome days to go. I can't wait to get up there to see how things are going at my place.

Keep posting I'm reading.

DIED what about those Aug. pHs ? How do you account for them ?

Interesting graph Dave getting close to spawning temps!

Oh and speaking of spawning temps (wow that sounds like a good set up for a joke) anyway speaking of spawning temps, when we are discussing that a certain species begins spawning at a given water temperature how is the temperature measured - at the surface or at a given depth or an average between the two or what? (wish I could have thought of a good spawning temperature joke but my tax season fried brain ain't working so good right now - - need more coffee).

Jeff what do they say about great minds ?

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000422;p=1

The last time we discussed it, the consensus was it meant the temperature at the depth the fish are spawning. More specifically, where the spawning beds are. E.G. in a large reservoir, the bass begin spawning first in the coves and shallows where the water is warmest, not in the main channels where it is still too cold.

yes its true, in honor of my 1,000th post, PB awarded me an all expenses paid bill fish trip to cabo with the top four co-anglers of the year!!, wow, what a great time......thanks guys!!



whew.....now that that's over, its back to BG.

ewest, those are April pH's (not august) and i am shocked. my meter is dead on with the calibration and tap water standards, so i have no reason to believe the pond readings are artificially high. the creek entrance water measured 7.68, but the main pond body is averaging around 10.27 . the fish do not seem the least bit distressed, and in fact, i had one of the most active feedings ever last night.

i take the measurements approximately 6-inches below the surface and as far as i can reach out beyond the near shore weed

as long as the fish are happy, i'm happy, and i'll keep monitoring and report back here.

jeff, i am fairly certain fish are already on beds and doin there thang. i sampled a very fat bellied 6-inch female BG a couple days ago and released her right next to where i caught her on a near shore bench about 3 foot down. On that same structure about 20 feet away, i also saw two larger fish (dont know if RES or GSF due to poor visibility) hanging tight together.

methinks i'm gonna have grandkids in a few weeks

yup, and me also thinks at a 1,000 posts i really need to just shut up and lurk a while :rolleyes:

In case you didn't notice, D.I.E.D., apparently you caught a fish while you were down at Cabo.

Ya know when that photo appeared across my 21 inch wide screen computer monitor I almost felt guilty. I had to zoom in on the photo to properly determine exactly what species of fish Dave was angling for.

Oh, sure and leave your old pond boss buddy Jeff slaving over 1040s while you go out and catch something scrumptious for dinner????

Oh, no you don't I've got 8 more days of this paper pushing. Post on my friend, post on.

Wow! How did I miss that?

You know what I got for my 1,000th post?


...neither do I.

Bruce's signature sure describes DIED's fishing trip.

Good one Burger !!! The question is did DIED know what he was fishing for and when did he know ?

sorry guys, no more fishin trips to Cabo lately, but i did manage to get a few pond readings.....arent you excited??!!!

i've been working so much i didnt get any mid-May measurements, and i wish i could remember how i saved the first chart on the previous page with the nice black border.....cant remember. i went from excel to adobe to jpeg to photobucket....any better suggestions?

anyway, here tis,



the average surface pH has decreased (thankfully i think), as average surface temps have risen. fish are happy despite the fact i'm losing water not soley to evaporation and am terribly worried for the pond this summer due to a long hot spring. am starting about 2 feet lower than this time last year with no rain probably until November.....yikes. much to my wife's chagrin, i may be installing a well sooner rather than later, and will need all the luck i can get to find a producing vein in our bedrock. i managed with the house well to get 10 gpm which is good for around here. the next well spot will be above the pond in the heart of the valley where two other drainages come in......fingers crossed.

My pond has got to be way down too Dave. I think we are in for a brutal year as far as pond water levels go.

Any idea about what is causing the PH swing? It looks like the PH rose steadily during the rainy season - was the PH increase caused by high PH water entering the pond from run off?

I vote for a well installation - ask your wife if I get a vote - that way it will be two against one.

DIED, I'd recommend that you take a pH reading at around 8 p.m., and then around 6 a.m.

pH fluctuates so much during the day, depending on whether your plants are photosynthesizing, or respiring.

The pH graph is meaningless unless you are getting readings at the same time of day each time.

...or did you know this already and I just missed a previous post? The picture you included in your 1,000th post has distracted me from the true meaning of this thread. :p

jeff, when you come visit next, the four of us will be standing over my beleaguered low water level weedy pond, after about the third beer, you can pipe up and say "hey dave, you REALLY need a new well up there above the pond"

by all means, lets get back on track here
actually, i believe the true meaning of this thread is 1) to celebrate the birth of a west coast BG pond, and 2) a place for DIED to post whatever the heck he wants to (within the family-friendly, albeit not necessarily PC confines of the web site of course). the pic that still haunts me is the one (i think heybud) posted of the gal with three....ummm...pectoral protrusions...wow!

that said, thanks for the rec's bruce. i'm acutally aware of the misgivings of pH measurements, but am fairly comfortable using the values for comparison purposes. my sampling protocol remains the same for all measurements which have all been taken at roughly the same time of day, after lunch (when i'm home). electrical conductivity (EC) and total dissolved solids (TDS) have tracked perfectly with the pH measurements (although maybe this is because EC and TDS change alot during the day too, but i think these are more stable parameters than pH). i averaged out some of the variability by averaging together readings from all portions of the pond whether in the shade or in the sun. and i calibrate the meter before each use to known standards. i believe the trends to be accurate for the general condition of the pond...but i believe in santa claus too, so... :rolleyes:

...but do you believe in Tom Cruise?

Only if he stays on his meds

thanks theo, a definite improvement

why rad, i'm as pure as the wind driven snow. its my buddy jeff who needs the meds....which reminds me to answer jeff's question......no ideas on the pH swings other than it has to do with the cessation of watershed input and subsequent stagnating pond water. interestingly the creek water remained in the high 7's and low 8's during the period in which the pond water rose to over 10. of course now, there is no creek, and there wont be one until round about december/january.

i had a mickey mouse rig for the aeration electrical which changed today....a nice first cabin set up. when i complete that this week, i'll take a pic or two and post the project.

D.I.E.D.
The poor attempt at a joke was "do you believe in Tom Cruise?" only if he stays on his meds

Since Tom doesn't return my phone calls anymore I cannot comment on his current medication situation.

It's easy to determine whether or not I'm on the medication ....

Thoughtful aeration thread = on meds

RES cartoons = fallen off the wagon

jeff, cant wait to show off the new electrical gig for aerator...its a must see. may have time to get a couple pics and post em up here this coming weekend.....busy busy week ahead.

its ok rad, me and intentional humor is about like waitin ON the RR tracks for the train to pass.

for those following this rag.....JHAP......here's a new set of summer data points. average surface pH is staying below 10 thankfully, despite the extreme volume loss the pond is experiencing and will be experiencing until november. average surface temps rising gradually...aeration running for 8 hrs every night between 2330 and 0730 hrs.

Fairly steady climb in temperature. I would think that would begin to taper to flat in say August?

Did you aerate that much in 2006?

Have you noted any changes in the pond since aerating?

Here's a graph that shows my view on the subject.

just trying to keep things cool

Wow, I would have never in my wildest imagination (and you should know by now that my imagination runs pretty wild) that there was a correlation between global warming and the demise of pirates.

I fear that DIED is an endangered species. Crank up the air conditioner my friend!

JHAP, i sporadically aerated on critical hot days with no sunlight in 2006.....so really not much.

since routine aeration started earlier this year, the water has assumed a beautiful olive/emerald green color indicating a strong yet not too strong continuous plankton bloom. the baby fish will have (and have) so much to eat, its wonderful. the clarity is much less than last year, the weed growth is much less, and the adult fish couldnt be happier......its just the overall decreasing water volume that keeps me awake at night.....

Glad to hear the aeration is working out. Still no progress on my aeration. After my June trip I am fairly sure that a windmill will not work. On those hot sticky days there is little to no wind at the pond until late afternoon and then only for a couple of hours. The company that quoted me a solar system completely backed off when I started questioning the adequacy of the system. I was concerned that the suggested pump wouldn't produce enough CFM at an adequate PSI to pump air to my 17+ foot depth and also pump enough air to support multiple diffusers for my size pond. I asked about those issues and about water turn over rate and suddenly the emails stopped. I suspect that the system did not have anywhere near enough air flow to service my size pond. Back to the drawing board!

I agree with you about water volume. Way too little rain this year. I keep hoping for a freak summer rain storm but nothing so far.

well i've been remiss in my pondmeister duties since early july, it has been a very busy summer! i had the extreme enjoyment of floating around on the jon boat this afternoon, enjoying an adult beverage, being followed by clouds of mosquito fish and curious GSF and BG. i took several measurements around the surface and averaged them up to put another point on the plot.



i am SOLD on the "night-only" bottom aeration, we have been in a big heat wave w/ daytime air temps to 105 and the average surface temp was only 85.....it simply cant get any higher as we are coming off a week of this heatwave w/ cooler weather ahead. the pH seems to have stabilized (all things being equal) around 9, but interestingly, in the surface water above the upper stream channel where the elodea and pondweed are prodigious, the pH was 9.4.....everywhere else it was 8.9 to 9.1. temps were also slightly higher in this area though.

anywho.....JHAP, i know you'd like to live vicariously through my data (you know, get a feeling for how yer pond is doing), but our situations have become quite different this summer now that i am aerating (and you have fresh spring water input).

the overall water level is down between 5 and 6 feet, the deep end still contains ~9 ft with two months to go.....fingers crossed, fish are happy and want to be fed each night, but i've been holding off, and only feeding about every three days or so.

Dave any chance you could have a small alkali seep in the bottom of the pond? What type of surface minerals do you have in the watershed ? It would be interesting to see a pH from early am. to gauge your pH swing.

DIED,

That's a nice graph, just curious, have you been tracking DO levels as well?

eric, no seeps here, bone dry. the water table has disappeared into the bedrock below, my pond water resides on the clay band-aid i put in the pond a couple years ago. the bedrock is a slaty shale (a meta-volcanic type) that, in terms of dissolved minerals, imparts little to the surface water. down deep though, groundwater, which has had a long residence time in the bedrock, is extremely hard and has high iron and sulphur from dissolved pyrite.

i agree....i'll try and pick a day during our warm weather and get periodic readings from dawn to dusk....would make an interesting graph....

thanks ceadmin, i havent seen you post in a long time, welcome back. no i dont have a DO meter. IMO, they are too pricey for the amount and value of the data i (personally) would get from them given that i just have a humble and young sunfish pond.. if i was raising trout in a marginal climate, or raising fish as a business (from an aquaculture standpoint), i would definitely own one though.

i've watched large GSF come up from the depths during feeding time, so i know they are using the entire water column which was one of my aeration goals.

Dave, any sightings of the RES? You mentioned above both BG and GSF but not RES. Have you spotted any RES?

I'm curious as to whether or not our RES spawned this year have you been able to determine that?

I do live vicariously through through your data. It will be very interesting to see how closely our ponds correlate to each other or whether they are now completely different.

jeff, with the hotspell, the RES have retired to deeper portions of the pond, and do not come out and play during feed time. i have spotted just a couple in the last month or so. i have not made time to dip net the shallows and see if i can tell what all successfully spawned. there are a GADZILLION gambusia which have probably made a HUGE dent in any offspring.