Pond Boss
Posted By: DBoone Help with Pike - 02/25/06 05:34 PM
We will be moving in a few months to a house with a large pond in the back of property. We have recently learned that the previous owner stocked the pond with Bluegill, Bass, Perch and Pike. We would like to let the children fish this pond but we wont let them go near it with the pike in it. Can someone offer a suggestion or two to get rid of the pike. We dont know how many he stocked it with. We can only think to drain the pond and restock after it has dried up, but that is inconvenient and expensive. Please we need some answers. Thanks
Posted By: Bruce Condello Re: Help with Pike - 02/25/06 05:41 PM
 Quote:
Originally posted by DBoone:
We would like to let the children fish this pond but we wont let them go near it with the pike in it.
I'm not sure I understand why the children aren't allowed to go near the pond. What exactly is the perceived danger?
Posted By: Wood Re: Help with Pike - 02/25/06 05:48 PM
Just curious, why would you not let children near pike? Pike are fairly easy to catch, I would fish them out if you don't want them. Depending on the size of the pond and the size of the pike you may find that your other fish have become pike food.

Posted By: Bill Cody Re: Help with Pike - 02/25/06 06:16 PM
Pike are not aggressive to people in the water. No published records of anyone being bitten by pike unless they stuck their finger in a pike's mouth. Stick your finger in my mouth and I will bite too. Literally thousands more swimmers have been bitten by bluegills compared to pike.
Posted By: Sunil Re: Help with Pike - 02/25/06 07:01 PM
Stick your finger in my 18 month old daughter's mouth, and she will bite you too, and it will hurt.........real, real bad, too!

DBoone, how big is the pond? As Wood mentioned, if there has been pike in your pond, especially for some time, the chances are good that there is little else in the pond now.

A lot of that will depend on your pond size.

If you had a smaller pond, say 1 acre, you could stand a chance of fishing most of the pike out.

Regarding hearsay about what has previously been stocked in a pond (even directly from a prior owner) is not a good basis for making decisions.

A good suggestion is to fish the pond hard for several weeks, and keep records of what you catch, size & weight if you can. During this period, you could also be removing undesirables, such as the pike (not wanting to offend those who might want pike in their pond).

It would also be good to know what region your pond is located. This will help others give good advice.

Subcribe to the magazine too.
Posted By: Sunil Re: Help with Pike - 02/25/06 07:02 PM
And Welcome aboard.
Posted By: Theo Gallus Re: Help with Pike - 02/25/06 09:32 PM
I would not hesitate to let my kids fish for pike. If you are worried, you can remove the Northerns from the hook for them.

I do this with my kids and LMB, just to try and minimize fish damage from catch & release. Shiners and bream, they're on their own.
Posted By: DBoone Re: Help with Pike - 02/25/06 09:49 PM
I have been fishing for many years and know that Pike is not an easy fish to bring up from any depth. They are fighters. I dont want my kids swimming in a pond where there are pike. They know how to fish also. Thanks for your suggestions though.
Posted By: Dave Willis Re: Help with Pike - 02/26/06 12:24 AM
DBoone -- I don't know where you are located, and how big your pond is. However, just speaking in general, I really don't like northern pike in a pond. Certainly, they will eat the larger size perch in your pond, and if pike get sufficiently abundant, they can even start to crop down your bluegills. So, I would consider removing them. They are indeed pretty aggressive, and while it may be tough to get all of them (depending on pond size), you can really get their numbers down by angling. They are very good to eat, especially in the winter. There is a special technique for getting out that extra line of y-bones in the fillets. However, once that is done, the fillets are firm and white!
Posted By: Bob-O Re: Help with Pike - 02/27/06 11:45 PM
Speaking of Pike, I think they are great. I've always considered them as fresh water Baracuda. I'm in the begining stages of digging 3 or 4 very small (3600 to 11000 sq ft) ponds, and have thought of making one strictly Pike. I have some info from Mich St that one pike requires 5 acres to sustain proper forage. That seems rediculas to me, keeping in mind what Cecil grows in those small ponds of his. Any ideas on a pond like this? Depth is concerning me. Again, am only to the point of checking ground conditions at present, so am very flexible. Bob-O
Posted By: Sunil Re: Help with Pike - 02/28/06 02:01 PM
Bob-O, I believe that Cecil feeds pellets to his fish.

I've never heard of a pike being feed-trained, but that does not mean that it's not possible.
Posted By: RBurke Keystone Hatcheries Re: Help with Pike - 02/28/06 03:44 PM
We grow out our pike by stocking alot of fathead minnows, golden shiners, and suckers. They are leftovers from our Bait division, and are free. If you want to do the same, you should consider having one of your small ponds devoted to forage for the pike, and transfer them to the pike when they need it. Buying fish for them to eat would be expensive. Seining would probably be the best method. Traps may work also.
Posted By: Dave Willis Re: Help with Pike - 03/02/06 12:57 AM
Bob-O: generally speaking, we figure that northern pike are getting to high density at about 10 pounds/acre. They rarely get to more than about 20 pounds/acre, probably because they are eating machines, as you already know. We used rotenone to kill a 3-acre gravel pit that had green sunfish and northern pike (wild caught fish that someone caught and moved to "help" the pondowner). The pond had four northern pike total, at about 6.5 pound average size. That's 26 pounds in a 3-acre gravel pit. That's probably a little lower than what a "hill pond" might support, as our sand and gravel pits are not too fertile here. The green sunfish were low in number and small in size. \:\) The northerns were healthy and sure would have been fun to catch. Obviously, it would have primarily been catch and release fishing.
Posted By: robdob Re: Help with Pike - 12/18/11 06:35 PM
why in the world would you not let your kids near your pond because it has pike? there are literally thousands and thousands of lakes in the northeast us that contain pike and muskie and also have public swimming areas. they are not a danger to humans at all..
Posted By: robdob Re: Help with Pike - 12/18/11 06:36 PM
so you are saying you have fished for many years yet you still believe the pike to be a danger to humans swimming in the same water? really?
Posted By: fishm_n Re: Help with Pike - 12/18/11 11:59 PM
DBoone, like they said, if you want to get rid of the pike, you can probly angle them down to very low numbers.
Ask a few people who are a little overboard with fishing to come help, Like me!! hehe. Target them in times of the year when they are more vulnerable, and release all larger bass and CC as they will help eat the young.

Or, rotenal the pond and start from scratch.

Could you give us any more information about the pond??
Posted By: Grundulis Re: Help with Pike - 12/19/11 11:07 AM
At first I will agree that pike is not any danger to children or adults. In Europe most of lakes contain pikes and some of them are really big ones but they don't attack people. I know only one reported case when pike attacked woman - it was in Germany and in a pond where was only one pike without any possibilities to eat. Normally they try to avoid people.
If your children go to fish pikes, be sure they are careful with removing hooks - that's the greatest danger I can imagine.

Next - how they can impact your whole fish population. They can be disaster in a small pond because:
* they eat great amount of fish;
* they grow fast;
* they reproduce well.
But everything depends on area.

About removing them. If you wish to completely get rid of them, try to drain the pond - otherwise there is always a possibility that some of them are left and will reproduce.
If removing significant amount of pikes is an option for you I can offer 2 ways:
1)using fishing net. This one is really good in spring when ice melts. Then pikes are going to breed near shoreline and it's easy to catch many of them.
Disadvantage: you will catch other fish too.
2)using bait fish. For example, create a system with 100 hooks and put a live fish on each of them. Crucian carp (goldfish) can be a great choice as the bait fish because they won't die soon (even put on hook).
Disadvantage: any other predators can be caught too.


EDIT: almost forgot to add my thoughts about feeding pikes with pellets. In my opinion it's almost the same as drinking non alchocolic beer smile
If you wish to have one or few pikes in a pond then it's possible to provide them with enough bait fish. But if your idea is to stock pikes in large amount then you need large pond (or at least small lake).
Posted By: skinnybass Re: Help with Pike - 02/20/12 06:54 PM
so yeah, looks like i am late to this party, and it looks like we may have scared DBoone off. Shame, if he is moving onto a property with a pond he doesn't know what kind of resource he'd be losing by not coming back to this site.

anywho...I feel his pain, as well as the pain of the posters. Yeah, pike are scary, toothy beasts. They have an angry look about them, they do fight hard, even when they are only 20 inches long, and they bite through line faster than you can get to the center of a tootsie roll pop. But none of that actually makes them a danger of any kind, at least not one that a pair of jaw-spreaders and some hemostat pliers wouldnt fix.

Most of you are familiar with my pike battle, and if not, those that are probably dont want me going back through it again. Suffice it to say that some noob of a neighbor threw way too many pike in the pond, and now we're trying to remove them.

In my experience, the education of all interested parties is what stops a lot of corrective measures from taking place on a pond/lake. Like trying to tell all of an angling club (in a recent example) that they need to change the slot for removing largemouth. Or like when the big suggestion for my dad's pond (before the pike issue became apparent) was to have a fish fry and have the local DNR out to talk about overpopulation. Or when some of the homeowners at my dad's pond see the pike..the first reaction is: well...we're screwed, no longer safe to swim! (regardless of how false that statement is)

My point is, it would be great if there was a "misconception guide" that helped fight the sometimes maniacal fears of the masses. The old adage of "never remove a saintly largemouth" can really bite a pond in the arse, and the perhaps unwarranted concerns of even a seasoned angler about "problem" species could be easily mitigated with the proper education.

I dunno. Maybe it could be written up in a post here, if anyone has the time to lay down the most common misconceptions about fish, ponds etc, and then others could join in. It would be nice to have a pdf "guide" of sorts, though, that could be printed and handed out at HOA meetings and the like.

I saw on Bill Dance's show the other day that fish dont actually move to the shallows with any sense of regularity when the air pressure changes before a storm front, but it is much more likely that they just become more active, and go where the bait fish are...whether thats in the shallows, under stumps, brushpiles, whatever. I dunno, i had been following the "pressure" rule for years, and was surprised to hear that it was just a myth.

Anyhow....I hope DBoone comes back, i'd love to talk shop about how to catch and remove pike, since we have such common goals.

-skinny
Posted By: catmandoo Re: Help with Pike - 02/20/12 08:45 PM
Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
Pike are not aggressive to people in the water. No published records of anyone being bitten by pike unless they stuck their finger in a pike's mouth. Stick you finger in my mouth and I will bite too. Literally thousands more swimmers have been bitten by bluegills compared to pike.


This is not meant to alarm anyone about pike, nor to ever discourage them from putting them in their ponds. I spent my youth swimming with them and fishing for them, never having been seriously injured. I love these fish.

But, this is a really great story about a tiger musky from an area I fished nearly daily as a kid. (here is a link to it, Fish Bites Man. They usually take these articles down after a few days, so I've pasted the details below:

Originally Posted By: Duluth New Tribune
Mike Meagher had been playing the fish for 15 minutes, and still he didn’t know what he had on the other end of his line. He knew only that it must be big.

Meagher, 23, and his friend Dallas Marnich, 24, both of Proctor, were fishing for walleyes on the lower St. Louis River last Wednesday when Meagher hooked something decidedly un-walleye-like.

After a 45-minute fight — and a minor medical emergency — he and Marnich pulled a 45-inch tiger muskie through Meagher’s fishing hole. After a few quick photos, they released the beautiful monster, stopped the bleeding from Marnich’s impaled thumb and tried to ponder what had just happened.

Meagher and Marnich were nearly alone on the ice that morning, and walleye fishing had been a little slow, Meagher said. They had drilled other holes outside their fishing shelter, and Marnich was outside the shelter, jigging in some of those holes. The men also had two tip-up lines in the water outside their shelter.

About 8:30 a.m., Meagher began seeing quick flashes indicating fish on his Vexilar flasher unit. Then, a huge red bar appeared and Meagher felt a subtle tap “like a walleye,” he said.

He was fishing in 8 feet of water, using a quarter-ounce gold jig and half a minnow on 8-pound test monofilament line.

“All of a sudden, my rod was bent all the way to my fingers,” Meagher said. “I set the hook, and it was like dead weight. Then the fish was running.”

Oh, did it run. And run. And run.

“I was back-reeling as fast as the fish was running,” Meagher said.

He figures the fish made a dozen or more long runs during the 45-minute battle. To keep the light line from wearing on the edge of his fishing hole, Meagher would poke his rod tip down into the water so the rod tip was below the 10-inch-thick ice.

After 15 minutes, he finally got a look at the fish. He saw the red hue on its fins, a sure sign of a muskie. Until then, he had suspected he was fighting a big sturgeon. It isn’t uncommon for walleye anglers on the river to hook sturgeon, which also make long, powerful runs.

Then Meagher saw the spots on this fish.

“I thought, ‘Oh, this is a tiger,’” he said.

A tiger muskie is a hybrid between a muskellunge and a northern pike. It has bold, dark green stripes and spots on a creamy background. Many anglers might remember the 48½-inch tiger muskie caught and released last summer on the St. Louis River by Charlie Gallagher, who was fishing with Duluth muskie guide Dustin Carlson. That fish had a 28½-inch girth and was estimated to weigh about 49 pounds. It probably would have broken Minnesota’s current record for tiger muskies, 34 pounds and 12 ounces, but it was released.

Meagher’s muskie, during its fight, entangled the two other tip-up lines that he and Marnich had put out, and at one point a baseball-size nest of lines and hooks came up through Meagher’s hole. He and Marnich hastily untangled the mess, and Meagher continued the fight.

It should be noted that the prospect of landing a 45-inch muskie on 8-pound test line is extremely slim. The fish could easily break the line with its sheer power, and it could also slice through the line with its sharp teeth. Muskie anglers typically use stout rods and lines up to 80-pound test. Meagher didn’t have that luxury.

After another half-hour, the fish had tired enough that Meagher got it near the hole. He saw the size of the fish’s head in the water.

“I thought, ‘How’s this going to work?’” he said.

Not very well, as it turned out.

Marnich stuck one arm deep into the water and tried to grab the gill cover to lift the fish through the hole. But the muskie repeatedly broke free from his grip. After about nine tries, Meagher said, Marnich’s grip held, and he hauled the fish up through Meagher’s 9-inch-diameter hole.

Somewhere in that process, however, the muskie slammed its massive jaws shut on Marnich’s thumb and refused to let go.

“You wouldn’t believe the pressure I had on my thumb,” Marnich said.

The teeth on a muskie of that size are formidable things. Two of those teeth were firmly embedded in Marnich’s thumb. Working as quickly as he could, Meagher used a small pair of needle-nose pliers and his Leatherman multi-tool to pry the muskie’s jaws open just enough to release his friend’s thumb.

Meagher and Marnich measured the muskie on a tape affixed to his sled, took a couple of photos, and put the fish back down the hole. It powered back into the tannin-stained water, Meagher said. Muskie season on the St. Louis River remains open through March 1 with a 50-inch minimum size limit, but nearly all anglers who catch muskies release them regardless of regulations.

The anglers wrapped Marnich’s thumb in a towel and compressed the wound to stop the bleeding.

According to muskie length-weight formulas, the fish might have weighed 26 pounds. The anglers were unable to get a girth measurement on the fish.

Marnich still finds the whole episode amazing.

“It was a blast,” he said. “It was awesome. It took so long and was such a challenge to get hold of him.”

Meagher posted his tale on his Facebook page and has been fielding lots of calls about his catch.

“I’ve told the story 75 times,” he said.

But he isn’t complaining.

“It’s an adventure I’m never going to forget,” he said.

Posted By: Bill Cody Re: Help with Pike - 02/21/12 12:20 AM
Cat thanks for the interesting story. I'm guessing the jig was hooked in the corner of the musky's mouth thus the line was not cut. Note the big musky was out of water when Marnich was bit. Numerous anglers have been bit by pike and musky when the fish are out of water struggling for survival and someone sticks their finger on purpose or accidently in the fish's toothy mouth. Dogs bite many, many more people than pike. cry
Posted By: Sniper Re: Help with Pike - 02/21/12 12:24 AM
I stuck a large stick in a gar's mouth and had it bit off cleanly.
I did not know at the time they breathe air. It had been on the bank for an hour or so.
Posted By: RC51 Re: Help with Pike - 02/21/12 01:02 AM
I have never heard of a Pike biting anyone but back when I was a kid about 13 I remember my mom and dad talking about a 7 year old girl getting 38 stitches from a musky bite. DNR in the area said it was more then likely not an attact as it was a reaction to her jumping in the water in an area where the musky was hanging out and it just lashed out at her. In the 19 years I lived in Northern Wisconsin that was the only attack I have ever heard of.
Posted By: Dwight Re: Help with Pike - 02/21/12 01:05 AM
I remain will remain quiet for obvious reasons. wink
Posted By: catmandoo Re: Help with Pike - 02/21/12 01:29 AM
Originally Posted By: Dwight
I will remain quiet for obvious reasons. wink



Posted By: esshup Re: Help with Pike - 02/21/12 01:36 AM
See what happens when you stick your foot thru the ice hole to test the water? laugh
Posted By: jludwig Re: Help with Pike - 02/21/12 01:56 AM
Dwight should his pike some more and maybe they would not get so hungry......
Posted By: Cecil Baird1 Re: Help with Pike - 02/21/12 02:56 AM
Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
Stick your finger in my mouth and I will bite too.


I'll keep that in mind Bill. Does your dentist have any fingers missing? grin


The only story I know of a toothy fish causing trouble was when a C.O. tried to arrest two young Native Americans for a violation on the border of their reservation. They pinned him down, pulled is pants down and shoved a foot long walleye up his ***. Needless to say it had to be surgically removed! Now that had to hurt! cry
Posted By: adirondack pond Re: Help with Pike - 02/21/12 03:14 AM
Leave it to Cecil to come up with colorful, but you gotta be kidding kind of stories. cry
Posted By: spinnerbait Re: Help with Pike - 02/21/12 03:45 AM
Thats funny!
Posted By: Cecil Baird1 Re: Help with Pike - 02/21/12 04:01 AM
Originally Posted By: adirondack pond
Leave it to Cecil to come up with colorful, but you gotta be kidding kind of stories. cry


I was told this by a biologist I worked for one summer back in 1978. I'm glad you enjoyed it! wink
Posted By: Cecil Baird1 Re: Help with Pike - 02/21/12 04:02 AM
Originally Posted By: spinnerbait
Thats funny!


Not if you were the C.O.

I once has constipation so bad I felt like I was ........ a brick sideways. I can't even imagine it having spines! shocked

Yeah I know TMI! grin grin grin
Posted By: Sniper Re: Help with Pike - 02/22/12 02:58 PM
Did you suture that yourself? Craftsman stapler?
Posted By: Dwight Re: Help with Pike - 02/22/12 03:37 PM
My favorite part of Frankenfoote is the juice running down the side. grin
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: Help with Pike - 02/22/12 11:08 PM
Boy, entertainment sure must be hard to come by in Minnesota during the winter.
Posted By: Cecil Baird1 Re: Help with Pike - 02/23/12 12:55 AM
Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
Boy, entertainment sure must be hard to come by in Minnesota during the winter.


Indiana's boring too.
Posted By: liquidsquid Re: Help with Pike - 03/09/12 02:01 AM
When I was a kid I used to stay up at the Thousand Islands with my extended family and fish, fish, fish. Fishing was almost too easy up there as a kid, but now the river is overrun with invasive critters and it is not the same...

Anyhow one of my pike stories was when I was fishing in a swampy area watching the pike cruse under my non-anchored canoe to hunt the swamp. I was only using a worm, shooting for bass and smaller fish, when *WHAM* something large nailed my hook! Then I was on with a major battle with a very large pike dragging my canoe around the swamp with my 8 pound test line. Those things have endurance!

I finally lost him about a half hour later when he went under a large log right in front of the boat so I got a good look at him just before my line snapped. As far as pike go, he was the largest I almost caught by a good shot, at least a yard. I didn't have a large enough net to get him aboard, and I did not have my uncle's mini baseball bat to club him once in the boat. I was not about to reach over the edge of the boat and gab him by the eyes and toss that thing into my boat.

My uncle had an uncanny way of catching some monster pike and getting them into his boat. He would then give them a good clubbing, and pick them up by the eye sockets. No risk of being bitten then.

He also hated catching eels, which he did frequently, and would get them in just close enough to cut the line. So slimy they would trash the inside of the boat. He did catch a monster eel once, I distinctly remember thinking he got caught on a power cable running to an island... and then it slithered like eels do. An eerie critter to be swimming with.

-Mark
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