Hello all...Hoping you can help me out here..Stocked my 3/4 acre pond back in March with 400 BG, 100 RE, 50 hybrid cats, 4000 fh, and 1000 golden shineers...was going to put75 bass in August..Problem is pond was filling but now losing water..maintaining at almost 1/2 acre..and full of fry, minnows and fish are growing faster every day..Have a feeder going 4 times a day..Im pumping water at 20g/min but the level drops a little each day...plan is to wait a year or so to see if pond seals.. at that time I wound drain it and reclay it or put bentonite in the bottom..suggestions on putting bass in? should I go ahead and put some in now at a less rate since Im overstocked with forage fish and how many? maybe thirty? any suggestions appreciated..

I would stock it with at least a few bass but not more than you are willing to lose.

I'd gather data and hedge my bet accordingly - perhaps some this Fall, as James suggests, and put off deciding on the rest until next year. See if the water loss abates over the Winter.

I was trying to figure how this would equal out now that I have a much smaller body of water..its holding now at less than 1/2 acre of water..the BG are 4-5 inches now...I was concerned about the biomass and ability of bass to keep the population of BG down...I'll probably go with 30-40 4-6inchers and see what happens..thanks for the input

jeffh, if your goal is to have bigger LMB, then you might want to keep the intitial LMB stocking numbers lower as james and Theo have suggested.

I wonder if you can find any bigger LMB than 4-6".

I can get my hands on some 8-10 inch...I just dont want too many BG...now that I have overstocked them...I not too worried about the loss later on if I have to drain the pond..

at 1/2 an acre you could just about walk the edges with a throw net and remove some fry and fatheads.
know any close neighbors who need some stocking.
I hate to see you lose those fish!

Is is possible to have to much forage base as long as they aren't all mature and reproduction has come to a stand still?

Not sure what you are asking Texas715. To many BG can keep LMB from spawning. Further to many fish can push the pond's carrying capacity to dangerous levels.

Ewest, I guess my question if if you have x number of mature forage fish and they produce at a level where very few will become to large for LMB to comsume. Can you have to much forage? I have mainly RE, Tilapia, Gams, and Shiners.

What do you mean by to many fish can push the pond's carrying capacity to dangerous levels?

I know there is a theoretical maximum production capacity but what would be dangerous vs. management change needed?

Just trying to learn more.

Thanks

TEXAS715 a very good question. Lets start with these 2 from the archives on carrying capacity (standing crop) and what effects it. The simplest way to explain it is being like an engine. Which it is after all. The closer you are to running it flat out the more likely you are to have a problem. The closer to carrying capacity the less room for error (including weather). In the south studies show that a pond will move toward its natural biological capacity (not including feeding and fertilizer which can increase capacity) in 2 to 3 years. After that , absent some productivity increase (Feed and/or Fert.) , you are dealing with managing how that amount is divided between the existing fish (balanced , LMB crowded , forage crowded , etc). There has to be room for some fish to grow bigger mostly by eating (eliminating other fish) for them to spawn and to go through the normal life cycle. Feeding and fert. work the same way just at higher levels over the same period. Whether you are feeding fish pellets or lots of forage you are still feeding fish as per Bob's comment below.

Good list of carrying capacity factors with discussion.
http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=22;t=000004

Bob's comment "
10) Feeding fish can be a great asset, by expediting growth rates and increasing a pond's standing crop. But, be aware of this...feed two pounds of fish food, you get one pound of fish, one pound of waste. Your pond becomes a septic tank. Too much waste in too little water leads to a natural correction. And, you won't like it.
From http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=22;t=000013

On the other point - studies show that if there are so many BG (probably other fish as well) that the LMB are overwhelmed then LMB will not attempt to spawn. This can be the start of a cycle with bad results. No new LMB - to many BG - no LMB spawn - more BG of smaller size and on until every thing in the pond is stunted and out of balance. That situation is not common though.

Not sure I answered your question but it is a start.

And as Bill Cody once put it, "Fish swim in their own toilets".

I don't do any feeding or fertilizing in my big pond (to costly). I also don't have many of any BG but do have tilapia, redears, golden shiners. Do these fish cause the same problem with LMB? Wouldn't more forage of a smaller size also be a benefit?

"That situationis not common though." Then even if trying in my case with over 20acres it would be harder to reach that point, correct! So wouldn't the payoff even be greater?

Fish may swim in their own toilets but sometimes I swim in their toilets too!

Texas715 I am not sure what you are asking with this.

"I also don't have many of any BG but do have tilapia, redears, golden shiners. Do these fish cause the same problem with LMB? Wouldn't more forage of a smaller size also be a benefit? "

Not sure what problem you mean. I don't know of a problem that they cause with LMB. The ideal situation wrt forage is to have enough of the right size forage fish to meet the goal you have set. For example if you goal is mostly large LMB 5 lbs + then as they get bigger (from 1 lb to 3 lbs to 5 lbs) you want the forage size to increase from 3in BG to 4.5in BG to 6in BG . Same principle for other forage fish like RES , tilapia and GShiners. Fish max growth by eating the size forage fish that allows them to get the most energy with the least expense of effort. A 4lb LMB will grow much better eating a few 4-5in BG than it will chasing around a bunch of 2in BG. Such a LMB can lose weight and condition by having to do that. If you want a balanced pond them you need forage of all sizes to both feed the different sized LMB and to reproduce more forage ( if you re-stock forage fish often for consumption that is different).