Hey guys when dads pond was put it its 16ft deep and just over 2 surface acers in length. We decided to put in about a dozen GC into the pond. Well fast forward to 10 years to today. Now we dont have a algae problem with the pond at all which is awesome. But in a way I feel it hurts the LMB due to lack of cover and plants that would grown in the pond. So anyways when I was there on friday I saw one of the GC and that think was HUGE!! I would say about 4ft long and easily 40+lbs. Do you guys think that the GC are a mixed blessing in a pond depending on how the size and how many you put in as far as growth for the LMB? Do you think we need to start taking some of the GC out of there and see what happens as far as algae grown and plant growth? What does everyone think? I just feel like the GC effects the growth of the LMB in a negative way since we mostly have on average 1lb and 13in bass that we have caught the last few years. Now we have caught bigger but it seems like we are catching less and less. The CC and BG are doing awesome in the pond and hopefully the BC and perch will do just as good. I just think we have a LMB growth problem and I think the GC are causing it.

I doubt that the GC are causing the poor growth in LMB. Likely other reasons. That said I would not want large /old GC in the pond. What species are in the pond ?

Before I comment, I would like to know how many Bass you are removing per year.

The pond has LMB,CC,BG,HBG,BC, Perch, and GC. The BC and perch were just added this spring. Everything else was added about a year after the pond was put in which was about 10 years ago. We do not take any bass out of the pond its all catch and release for them.

There is your reason for small LMB population dynamics. Things will change with the addition of new species (assuming survival). Proper harvest is almost always necessary with LMB ponds.

Like ewest said, that is your problem. You MUST remove LMB from the pond if you expect there to be enough food in there for them to grow.

Here's a math problem for you. If it takes 10# of fish to put 1# of weight on ONE bass, how many pounds of fish do the bass in your pond have to eat on an annual basis for them to each gain one pound of weight?

A body can have between 40 and 120 lbs/acre of LMB in a typical farm pond. What determines the weight of individual LMB is combination of the food limited carrying capacity and the number of LMB that are in there. If the pond can support 100 lbs of LMB and there are 130 LMB. They will average 3/4 lbs ... there is no way around that but to reduce the number of LMB as esshup and ewest have recommended.

I see what you guys are saying I think. Like what size do you think we should remove? The typical bass I usually catch is just over 8in long and weighs a 1.5lbs. Do we need to take those smaller bass out, or do we need to take out the big 15in bass that we have been catching? You also said things will change with new fish in it. What did you mean by that? Ik some of the new fish will be eaten but we also put in 3,000 minnows. To hopefully compensate for the BC and Perch that we put in.

huskerman9, did you mean 8 inches long and 0.15 lbs? An 8 incher that weighted 1.5 lbs would be incredible!

I think it would be spherical.

An 8" LMB standard weight is around .25 lbs so they are a bit light. Being that light at 8" tells me that you have a great number of LMB. I think I would try to take out a minimum of 30 lbs/acre ... right now as fast as you can catch them ... and then see where they are this fall. There should be a notable improvement in condition by then. At least keep total weight and total number figures. Depending on growth and condition, you may need to harvest the summer production (increase in the weight of LMB which should approximate the weight you now harvest) this fall also.

Meanwhile ... check out bocomo's thread of how he turned his pond around by implementing LMB harvest. It's pointed to the last page where you can see the results of 4 years of harvest management. If you like what you see, read the entire thread because it chronicles the history and a lot of members contributed. It is unnecessary to recreate that here as it covers everything you need to know. I will mention that many who start off gangbusters in the first couple of years never achieve almost 19" LMB with 120 RW. So what bocomo accomplished with a broken old pond is a testament to the importance of population management.

The best easy to understand rule I have seen is provided by Professor Richard Anderson who literally wrote the book on population analysis.

From an archived thread :

For LMB

This is what is suggested by Dick Anderson - the Prof who wrote the book on PSD.

Keep taking <12 in bass until the number 8-12 equals number 12-15. Ideal pond structure is 40% 8-12, 40% 12-15 and 20% 15+

This assumes good fish condition.

Another suggestion is take out all the fish in poor condition in all size groups. Note the size group that is stunted will have a much higher % of fish in poor condition.

These are all correlated to the concept of RW mgt.

Here are 3 archive links with a ton of info on the subject.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=255372#Post255372

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=255359

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92492#Post92492

If the only method of removal is hook and line then you need to consider the catchibility issue which underlies your question about genetics.

jpsdad, thanks so very much for linking BOCOMO's thread. Somehow I'd missed that whole thing years ago. Great read.

I went after my overpopulated LMB in a somewhat similar manner. I added adult GSF one year, then adult BG the next. This is the third summer the BG have been in there. There are relatively abundant young BG now from fry sized through 6" and 7". The original stockers are pushing 11".

Bass have yet to respond in any appreciable numbers. Give 'em time.

You are most welcome 4CP! Bocomo's thread is one of my favorites. Congratulations on those >10" BG. I haven't caught one that size for almost 2 years and miss them from a pond that once hosted them. So I enjoy hearing of yours and am looking forward to hearing more of them.