I I have just discovered that I have GSF in my pond. They are 2-4" now. About a month ago I noticed I had some very aggressive fish feeding right next to my feeder and they have doubled in size since then. I caught 2 and took to my fish guy Friday and confirmed they were a bred down hybrid BG. Don't have a clue on how they got in my pond but so far only notice a few of them. He gave me a minnow trap so hopefully I can catch them. I have lots of big BG (8+") and LMB so hopefully they can keep them in check. Any other ideas on getting rid of them?

Small jig or #10_#12 hook with bait drug along the bank about 3 ft out and a foot deep will get some of the 4" ones. Once you get a strike just keep draging the hook past the same area till you get him. The small ones never seem to tire at biting.

What are your goals for the pond?

Big BG was the main goal.

I'd just keep a high population of <14" LMB and let them hammer the smaller GSF and BG. Keep catching and removing all GSF that you hook. I think draining, rotenoning and starting over is a fast fix, but by keeping constant angling pressure on them, and letting the LMB do their thing you can keep them in control and stay focused on your goals for the pond without starting over.

I'd view the GSF as small LMB in regards to their predatory status in the pond, not as BG.

Interesting comment esshup about the GSF acting like LMB, it brings up something I have been wondering about. As some may know from my own pond scenario, I have had GSF from the start too. Right now it seems like I am having a lot of GSF in the 2-4" range. Yet my small BG numbers almost seem non existent. Could the GSF be eating the BG fry(like small bass would)?

--Forgot to mention that a GSF that was 2.5" long was full of eggs. Perhaps that's why they are outnumbering the BG?

My GSF are full of eggs too. I have a a lot of small BG from last years spawns so not in same situation yet. Thanks guys! I'm really hoping not to have to start over cause I have some really nice BG.

The small ones are sure shaped like a bass. I went out and caught about 40 of them this morning. Smallest about 3" with most 3.5-4".

Others mentioned eggs. These act like they are on a nest, because once I find them it is usually a matter of several tries and if I don't get them the first time, usually get them eventually in about the same spot.

Three pics below, two of the typical fish and the third what I was catching them on today.

Too bad their average size wasn't about a pound or two. Would be nice fish to catch, but few get big enough to be worth anything. I can remember eating them as a kid but they were usually small and bony. Bony would be my guess because they likely never got big enough for anyone to bother to fillet so we just cut the head off and scaled them.

Could probably catch smaller ones if I had a smaller jig and hook.

If I threw the line out too far, sometimes would catch one of the nice BG or a hybrid I had put in the pond on the same lure. Tried to avoid that and concentrate on getting some GSF out of the pond before they spawned.

As mentioned if you keep your bass population high or numerous especially those less than 14" then the bass should just about eliminate the GSF unless you have 'tons' of cover. GSF like to hide and frequent nooks and crannies of rocks and similar structure as secure more locations. It takes numerous small bass to keep GSF at low densities. At high densities GSF can eliminate recruitment of BG and LMB and most other forage species.

Bill, I saw that in a clients pond. He stocked YP/RES/FHM/GSH and let them stew for almost 2 years before wanting to add SMB. I did a survey in the pond before we stocked SMB and found no recruitment from those species due to some GSF that were in the wet spot in the woods that he turned into a pond. Another area that was turned into a pond of the same size, at the same time, and stocked with the same fish showed a lot of recruitment. The difference between the 2 ponds? No GSF.

The pond with GSF was drained 90% and nuked with Rotenone.

Not to hijack the thread but this topic has me thinking.

I have read people say that HBG will revert back to GSF over time. We know this to not be entirely true because you are never going to actually breed out the bluegill genes. But is it possible that it appears this way for a reason?

Maybe
1) large mouth size is a dominant trait?
2) Natural selection, the large mouth fish survive better?

I am starting to think that's were my situation is going. I have had the LMB in there for two years, and I saw them spawn this year for sure. So, I don't know if I should wait one more year to see if they were successful, but by then it may be bad. The LMB are around that 10 -14" size. Just today before seeing this post I was thinking about finding some LMB that were in the 6" range (maybe I should even go smaller so they grow up by starting to eat .75" GSF ? ). I am thinking that the larger original LMB are wanting bigger prey so now the small GSF are plentiful. Don't have many GSF that are over 4-5".

When you don't think you have much of a recruitment from the bass it is usually a good idea to stock some 2"-4" LMB so they put predation pressure on the hatchling GSF. Smaller predators eating smaller types of prey. Larger predators rarely eat the smallest prey unless the small prey is very easy to catch such as fathead minnows.

I have found a source of LMB that is very close to me that has feed-trained LMB. He has some 4-6" ones right now at a very reasonable price for my area.

At my pond:

- Need to knock back the GSF in the 1 - 3" range.

- I currently feed twice a day.


Do you think that this would be a bad decision to get these? Will they eat the GSF or stay on feed? He also has 8", would that be a better size? I imagine they are all culls (he's cleaning out his ponds to start up the next round) and are slow growing, but in a pond where stunted LMB will be my management practice, I am assuming that's ok ? Is there a reason why I would want 2-4" instead of the 4-6"?

What size are the LMB in the pond now? (if any)

10-14". That's why I was thinking 8" are still to big. The 10" LMB aren't interested or can't keep up with them, and 8" will become 10" to soon.

I'd go 4"-6" being concerned that anything smaller could be eaten by the LMB in there now. Even 4" LMB could become snacks.....

Forgot to mention that since this is an old renovated pond there is cover around the edges. I think that may be a reason why the bigger ones are having a tough time. Perhaps a smaller fish will be able to squeeze in with better results.

I'm hoping I can manage around mine, or maybe even the GSF hybridize with some of the RES or BG.

I have one big advantage that the 1 acre pond with the GSF is not my main pond and the main 3 acre pond is only an eighth mile away and is available to take larger fish from it and put in the smaller pond. So I have the luxury of being able to pull larger size BG and LMB from the larger pond to put in the smaller pond with GSF as needed.

Also saw a 3-4" RES on a bed today in the shallows with a female trying to make babies in my micro forage pond. So hopefully will have RES I can grow up to size for replacements as needed also. The male was running off several other fish (hopefully other RES as that and FHM is all there is supposed to be in that pond)trying to get in on the action.

John

At this time, I am considering yanking out the larger bass, if I can, while adding the smaller ones. I don't have many adult BG in there, and possibly a boost to their spawning might be a good thing at this point. Flip side to that the bass will feed on them as well, thus reducing the number of GSF taken. Hmmmm... maybe I won't.

That is kind of the same type problem I consider about feeding in the pond with GSF. On one hand, the GSF gobble the feed up and maybe they would leave the BG and RES fry alone a little more. On the other hand, feeding will likely cause the GSF to grow and spawn even more profusely.

Darned if I do, darned if I don't.

The GSF will only spawn annually. And 99% of them will be eaten. But then, only about 1% of fish ever reach maturity.

Admittedly, I'm a GSF fan. They outfight a BG every time.

How big will a GSF get? Right now mine all hang out right in feeder next to a cattail clump. They know there's LMB cause they hit the feed & head for whatever cover there is. I can catch the same size BG in the same spot & Dave is right a GSF is fun to catch even if it's only 4".

When GSF have reduced numbers and lower competition or adequate food they will grow easily to 8" and even to 9" and sometimes to 10". Once GSF become mature expect growth increments to be about 3/4"-1/2" per year - less as they reach 7".

So if I could keep my population in check I could have a some really nice GSF & BG & probably some hybrid BG or res?

Jd, this is what I was thinking and want to achieve too. Keeping it in check has been difficult, probably because my population showed up in the infancy of stocking. I have nothing against GSF, and decided early on my route of action was to try to manage them. Right now my experience says: beware, it will be work and headaches, but to early to say if I can or will succeed. In return tho, I have been learning more than if it was easy, and I like that part the most.

Sorry to have sort of hijacked your thread.

When my uncle built his 5 acre lake about 9yrs ago. There was a small pond that got flooded in the process. We stocked CNBG, RE, FHM, LMB, and a small amount of Hybrid Crappie.

In the first few years we caught A LOT of GSF. More of them than any other fish if I had to guess. All of them with that large gsf mouth. I have fished this lake a bunch this year and not caught one fish with that large mouth. What I am catching with some frequency now are large crosses like this one. Picture does not do this fish justice. The coloring on the fins was beautiful. It was 10" long, weighed 13oz, hit a big skitterwalk topwater lure and pulled like mule.

And that is why I like GSF. Busted tackle is a big rush to me.

Ross, that is a beautiful fish! Hope I can get some hybrids like that.

"So if I could keep my population in check I could have a some really nice GSF & BG & probably some hybrid BG or res?"

That is kind of my hopes also.

I've pulled well over 100 out of my old pond (probably closer to 150)with 90% being what appears to me as last years spawn at 3.5-4" long. They are not very tall or thick but man will they hit a #10 hook with about anything on it. After getting tired of putting real bait on the hook, I just cut off about a quarter inch of black plastic worm and that seemed to work just as well. Don't even use the reel, just use it more like an old cane pole. No bobber, just flip the hook out about 5 feet and drag it in at moderate speed or drag it along the bank a couple feet out in the water.

Seems like they "hit" better moving the bait with some speed. Like they don't even bother to check out what it is. If it moves, bite it. Caught a few on a bare hook, but success rate was way down, so they needed some sort of bait to go for it.

I just hope to get them thinned out enough so they don't hammer the BG and RES spawn quite as bad. May be a hopeless cause, but it was kind of fun tossing the line and pulling in a fish every few casts.

It seems to me, the northern guys have a much larger level of problems and general disgust with GSF than the southern guys. I sit pretty much in the middle.

Would it be correct to say that GSF cause more problems for northern ponds than southern ponds?

If so, would it be because the difference in spawning between the GSF and BG? Southern ponds get more BG spawns than northern latitudes?

I'm just grasping at straws here and only going by what I have observed from reading threads here on PBF. But it seems like southern guys don't have the hatred for the GSF like the northern guys.

Seems I read somewhere the world record for GSF is just over two pounds. I bet a GSF that size would put up a nice fight.

That looks very similar to the hybrids I get in my main pond. Was supposed to be straight BG, but obviously a few hybrids sneaked into the stocking. I have BG just as long in length as the hybrids but the hybrids are "thicker" so generally heavier than the BG of similar length. ALL the hybrids I've caught so far have been some of the biggest of my sunfish. Have not caught a small hybrid in the bunch. They have probably ate their share of FHM's, not to mention feed.

I like them, and hope I get some RES and/or BG xGSF hybrids in my old pond naturally.

Found this:

world record green sunfish 2.2#

I'm only about 2 hours due west of Stockton lake where it was caught.

Maybe I should change my old pond goal to record GSF production.

Welcome to the world of hybrid sunfish. In my experience a BG x GSF hybrid will put a similar sized BG to shame when it comes to angling excitement. Just a heavy, solid fish on the end of your line.

A couple of pictures of the size I have been catching and the lures. The first one was in the larger range and I missed him a few times before catching it. The jig head had a plastic lure on it and about a #8 size hook. Was getting lots of hits but not many hooking up. The second picture was with just a small piece of plastic lure cut off with scissors on a #10 hook. Caught 20 in the 3-4" range in about 40 minutes on that setup.

Too bad I don't have any #12 hooks to try. Neither one of the two local outlets had any hooks that small. I need to find some.

Interesting thing is, occasionally I will hook up with a 7-8" hybrid or BG (that I put in this pond from my other pond) with this same small hook setup. Note third picture.

The two smaller fish may have been pure GSF; or very close if not pure GSF. Their parents may have been mixed in with your HBG depending on how and where your HBG were produced.

The small ones came from stock that was in the original pond. There was only a puddle in the middle left, but enough water to hold GSF and BH. In hindsight, I should have killed the remaining water. But that was before I found this forum and was not even sure what this pond was going to become.

The larger fish likely came from my other pond because as I catch the small number of hybrids I'm finding in the main big pond, I transfer them to this old refurbished pond.

I've only caught a couple (that I am sure of) fairly good size GSF that I have to assume was some of the original stock that spawned all these small ones.

It is just that as some of the hybrids have a lot of GSF characteristics, I'm starting to second guess myself on their identification. If they are hybrids, I want them in there. But if it happens to be a big GSF that is responsible for spawning all these 3-4" ones I'm catching now, I want it out. That is the tough part for me, determining if it is a GSF or a hybrid with a lot of GSF characteristics.

If I have any natural hybrids produced (I hope so) the timing of my stocking of other fish (BG and RES) would likely only be very small fry from a late spawn last fall or tiny fry from this spring spawn. The 3-4" size I'm catching pretty sure were spawned before I put any other fish in. I only put FHM in that pond early spring 2013 and no BG or RES till late summer/fall of that year (BG 5-6", RES 3"). So I would think the GSF broodstock that spawned the ones I am catching had to be there from that small puddle of water left when I cleaned the pond out.

GSF at 1 year old and 3"-4" long will usually spawn at that age and size. Look again at the pictures of the fish in the 1st picture in your post above. Notice the emerald or blue-green streaks on the gill cover just below the eye. Those noticeable and distinct streaks are characteristic of GSF. When you catch any fish with those streaks feel confident to remove that fish as a GSF or one with lots of GSF genetics.

We have a .2 acre near the house that dad stocked with HBG (Dunn's truck) and a few channel cats probably 13 years ago. He did this right after he had the pond dug and it filled up. His idea was to have something close to the house to easily take the kids fishing. It was a total success the first few years as we caught some really nice HBG and CC. The kids had a blast. A decade later all we catch out of it are small GSF from about 3"-6" like snrub showed in his pics. I'm ready to get some OTS BG from Todd and put in there to change the gene pool. Maybe a couple of female CB LMB too.

IMO Ross you need several bass (12-20) in the pond to keep the offspring of the HBG controlled. Essentially you want all the HBG offspring eliminated and every year or three add some more pure strain HBG to keep the strain up to date regarding fast growing hybrid genetics.

Bill, I wouldn't care if the HBG were eliminated entirely. I'd be happy with CNBG, RE and a few LMB to help control their numbers.

With a small 0.2 ac pond it is easy to renovate and start over with only the species that are stocked and do not have to deal with various problematic fishes that cause problems and interfere with your goals.

I've been considering doing just that. Spending more time at the farm in the last year and getting back into it. Never renovated a pond before.