I have been seeing a lot of adult gizzard shad around the edges of my pond this summer and don't recall seeing them around the edges before. the fish I have been seeing are about six inches long in one to two feet of water. I have normally only seen them in schools out from shore. are gizzard shad a normally schooling fish or as adults do they forage in groups of two or three along the shore?
James, do they seem to be stirring up mud, or just cruising?
I've seen them schooling in lakes.
Mostly pelagic (open water) filter feeders but have been shown to eat detritus and they have a sub-terminal mouth (downward facing)so they are more apt to feed shallow and on bottom that T-shad.
We find them in huge schools in open water this time of year. If they aren't already the whites and wipers will be busting them on the surface mornings and evenings.
I have a large count of TFS in my 3+ acre pond due to good blooms and mild winter this year but I would like to ask some of you with gizzard shad experience, is a 3 and a qtr acre or so pond to small for gizzard shad? And if you had lmb and hsb in the 17 to 18" size, would you add them lets say next year? Do they take up much biomass in a pond or do the predators keep size and numbers down?
Thanks Eric for the reading, it reminded me of the value of the TFS that have done so well in the pond this past 25 months. The reason I asked about the Gshad was because I had recommended to a couple of people where to get the TFS but in doing so they were not able to get them due to shortage of these shad. And I was looking ahead or attempting to look ahead and (if) I have a die off this coming winter, then what about replacing with Gshad? Majority of my predators would be good sized, so I was asking, what if?
I understand. I would add GShiners or Talapia and additional BG before I would use GShad. If all you wanted was GShad and LMB (trophy)no other fish then that may be ok.
Ewest has a interesting thought. I've read hundreds of species stocking ratios for trophy bass fisheries, but I don't think I've come across one where a fishery is stocked with GSD and yearly stocked with tilapia. I assume the lower food chain could be a minnow species. Has anyone come across such a fishery stocking occurrence?
I thought I read where Bob Lusk reported most trophy lmb ponds have GSD. I am most likely wrong in my recollection. And I know Ewest is a top notch fish guru, so I take his recommendations to heart. For me, I know it takes a lot of the (correct sized) forage for good lmb growth. And I know Tp is a good forage fish. But they do not exist in my pond from Late Nov to April and will not reproduce in the pond till June, I think. So, if I lose my Tfs due to a cold winter or if my larger lmb only feed on the fully matured TFS (4 to 5"), is Gsd a good or bad in a 3 + acre pond when looking to grow some double digit lmb or some really nice Hsb?
I went with 12lbs per acre of Tp this past April, what numbers would one go with if no TFS existed due to cold weather kill off and I can not find replacement tfs?
I would not used gizzard shad in 3 acres of water, the risk of bad things happening is way too high. I would used CNBG and tilapia. 2 cents complete.
Brian, Highflyer, I hear ya
Would a smaller pond make it easier for the lmb/hsb to catch and eat the gsd? Less places to hide etc. Would the smaller pond make it less likely for the gsd to grow to the larger sizes because of those same lmb/hsb?
Love this conversation!
Our pond management company has quite a few trophy bass lakes under management. I want gizzard shad in those lakes, as long as at least 25% of the bass biomass exceeds 18". That's become my rule of thumb over decades of growing big bass. Big bass eat big meals...remember that.
For a small body of water, say less than 5 acres, trying to manage for trophy bass is tougher, and gizzard shad stand a greater chance to overpopulate. With that risk, you have to decide whether you want to deal with that issue or not. For a three acre pond, you could wind up with 400-500 pounds of adult gizzard shad that don't fit the food chain. If you can harvest them at large sizes, consider it. If not, don't use them. Threadfin shad could be much better, along with what's been suggested above.
The Boss says: " .... and gizzard shad stand a greater chance to overpopulate (in waters less than 5 ac)". Can you explain why there is a greater chance for G.Shad to overpopulate?. Also why is it more difficult to grow double digit bass in say 5 acres if there are only a few mixed sex bass present, or maybe only a few female bass present per acre (abt 30lbs/ac)? We would like more insight to these topics.
Here is an accidental anecdotal experience with adding gizzards to a 3 acre lbm/BG/crappie pond.
This pond was on our farm when we bought it, and had been stocked with the above fish by the previous owner. Mud bottom, pretty shallow, in the middle of row crop land. Lots of skinny 10-14" bass, small crappies, poor bluegill population, just as one would expect. I did not try to manage it in any way, and the fishing didn't change for several years. Although it is 40 feet above the Duck river, it flooded in 2010--introducing a large number of gizzards. Now, 7 years later, it still has lots of crappies with some nice ones to 14", what appears to be a healthy gizzard population, and really nice LMB--we frequently catch 4-5# fish, and they look healthy. I have caught several nice bass with gizzard tails coming out of their throats, especially on warm days in the very early spring. The water stays quite muddy, and I have wondered if this is helpful to the bass in their predation of the gizzards.
It is certainly possible that the fishing will fall off as more biomass gets concentrated in very large gizzards, but hasn't happened yet; this has been the best fishing year we've had so far.
I am absolutely not suggesting to anyone that they add gizzards to any body of water, large or small, and would never have put the gizzards in this pond myself. But is has been interesting, and fun, to see how they've done, and it certainly has made a huge difference in the fishing.
Tracy, have you considered rainbow trout to cover November - April period? Bass grow huge on them in California!
Yes Frank, I have considered the Rainbows, but the cost needs to come down. Al (Fireishot) joined into a thread awhile back and figured the cost for his pond, which is larger than mine, and the cost was REALLY HIGH, if you add enough to make a difference. Now, if I could talk Todd Overton into letting me barrow one of his fish trucks I could buy 3" from Ark to add to the pond. I am not saying Todd is high but with all his handling expense, moving here to there and back again, it make the cost of them pretty high when stocking enough to feed the lmb in my limited experience. Or maybe not, TFS are not cheep to stock ether and sometimes may be impossible to find. Zep, was having some problem finding TFS awhile back. That is why I was just looking and questioning the GSD since James H. started up this thread.
You might not want to borrow the fish truck once you find out what the cost per mile is............ Diesel fuel, O2, chemicals to put in the water, tires, maintenance, material overhead, insurance and license fees, plus cost of a CDL.
The fish are cheap if you could just snap your fingers and have them transported to pond side from the hatchery in an instant.
Heck, just brass fittings, ball valves, quick disconnect connectors, and other plumbing fittings for an O2 manifold, flow meters and O2 diffusers will run close to $200 per tank.....
Of the many pond owners I have advised (many on here) that have originally expressed their goal as "trophy bass" only a very small % (under 10%) decided to attempt it once they understood what that goal ment. GShad in southern waters are IMO only appropriate for trophy bass waters. They may work in some specific situations but the risk is high.
Gizzard Shad
Please don't misunderstand my cost comments concerning Todd. I understand running a successful business where there has to be profits to keep the business alive. He and his staff have been an asset to say the least and I will continue to support his business with fish purchases when I can. I was just trying to say stocking Rainbows are expensive when or if one adds enough of them to make a difference in lmb growth.
And I hear ya when speaking of growing only trophy lmb. Not near as easy as one would think. And not only that, but catch rates are way low and that even makes it harder to stomach when looking at your/my trophy pond.