Any ideas?

I regularly fish for and catch LMB on a 5+acre pond in my backyard. I catch plenty of fish 10" and under and I have caught, on separate occasions, a 5lb and a 6lb LMB. I did not think that the pond had any large fish in it. The first large fish that I caught (2 months ago) was a 6lb LMB. I bumped into it on accident while fishing for BG. As I was reeling in my catch (a small BG) the 6lb LMB tried to grab it! I put the BG on a bigger hook and tossed it back out. Sure enough the big bass took it.

I rarely use live bait. I fish with spinners, plastic worms, and some floating bait. I have been unsuccessful in trying to catch these larger fish with anything that I have (including a large hulapopper).

Last week I tried a live BG again. Sure enough, and without much effort, I caught a 5lb LMB. Neither bass put up much of a fight and I feel that I am cheating. Why can't I catch these fish using artificial baits?

Another question: where are all the mid-range LMB (2lb – 3lb)?

Hi AAP,

If you have others fishing in your pond, the bigger bass may be lure shy.

Are the bass you are catching plump, or on the thin side? If they are plump, you have a minor mystery.

It's natural and normal for bass of any size to prefer live bait. However, unless someone is fishing them lots, you should be able to catch some of each size on artifical... until they get wise.

Thanks for responding, Bob!

The small bass (10" and under) that I catch everyday are thin. The two big bass that I caught could not have been more "plump". Most of the BG that I catch are thin too.

There is about 10 houses that back up to this pond. The fish have seen plenty of lures for plenty of years. The pond has good cover (weeds and reeds); FYI.

Somebody once explained to me that fish have a 6 second memory. I do not agree. What a more experienced angler do to cath these large fish? There must be a few more to catch.

APP :

Need more info about the pond. It sounds like you are describing a LMB crowded pond. It is very common. LMB crowded ponds have lots of small 8-12in. LMB ,few 2-4 lb. LMB and a few large LMB 5+lbs, also few 3-5 in. BG and some large BG 8+ in. Are LMB thin with heads that look to big? Do you see many 3-5in. BG? Tell us about the pond. Once we find out the status of the pond's biology then we can look at why the catch rate is low. ewest

PS I see you have same ? on another thread I will copy this there and go forward with one thread only.

Eric -- I couldn't find another string from APP.

APP: Eric likely is right on target with his assessment. Classic situation.

Now, here's why I really posted. How did you choose APP? That should mean that you are a truly experienced fisheries biologist. To us, APP stands for the available prey to predator ratio! Couldn't resist reporting that one!

Dave :

I copied your post to the other thread called 'Lure shy Bass".

See this thread on same question.

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=002129

APP,

You are describing a condition that, it seems to me, most all ponds with LMB evolve to over time....i.e. the small bass can be caught, but the larger ones are virtually impossible to catch on lures. You can catch the large ones on BG just as you described, but they have "learned" over time that those artificial things are bad medicine.

Many theories have been extolled on the Forum as to how to avoid that condition, some deny the existance of a problem with the catchability of larger LMB.

Unfortunately, I don't know of a solution. It is possible, even likely, that you have an overpopulation of LMB also. However, even with population in balance, I believe you will see great difficulty in catching the larger LMB.

You didn't mention the genetics of the LMB...if pure Florida strain, then introducing the northern strain might help. Also, reduced fishing pressure certainly would help, but isn't likely in your situation.

My fellow Forum members get angry at me for saying this, but in my experience, with fishing pressure in small ponds, it is inevitable that larger LMB become very "lure" shy.

That's been my experience too. This can be overcome somewhat by trying to mimic the natural forage as closely as possible, and changing lures and presentation. But still, the bigger older bass always become wise, wary, and selective. When they become smarter than me, I can't seem catch them at all. :rolleyes:

Some peoples bass are very shy (so I've heard), others aren't. Why doesn't someone invent a full sized lure that's a wounded bgill ? Better yet, get Cecil to make up a dozen replicas with treble hooks...drag them thru the water.

An aggressive bass pond starts with aggressive genetics, there are studies that show some bass never bite a lure, others are caught many times.

Fishing pressure does play a factor, but common sense plays a part too. The great fishermen will catch the big fish you can't...it's not ego, it's knowing fish. We all vary in our knowledge, 99% of the Pro's have caught a 10 lb bass, I'll bet 1% of us have. Maybe they know where the lure shy bass go !

You mean like this?



Blue Gill Swim Baits

Or try this one it looks a lot better in person than the pic. Look at the sunfish . ewest

http://www.tacklewarehouse.com/descpageSWMCASTAIC-CSB.html#

One thing to remember about Big LMB's is that as they age and get larger their body metoblism slows, percentage wise they do not need to eat as much as smaller LMB's to maintain their body wieght. Add that to their ability to eat much larger things and you have a fish that eats something relative large and then feeds less often than their smaller counterparts. Larger prey items are also tend to be more abundant and there is less competition for the size of prey they eat. LMB can and do get lure shy, but the big ones can be caught with artificials under the right circumstances if your fishing knowledge is good, live bait however will usually out perform artificials most days.

Thanks for the great info. It's comforting to know that I am not alone. Those 'wounded BG' lures are pretty cool looking. I think I'll try one out; and maybe some big lizards and frogs. What do you all think?

Meadowlark asked about the gentetics of the bass in my pond. Cantrary to Mr. Willis' suggestion I am not a fisheries biologist. I have no clue as to how to tell Florida strain from northern strain. Any ideas?

I am from VA. Is anyone changing tactics and presentation as the weather changes? Ponds? Lakes? Creeks? Rivers? I've only been fishing regularly for a couple years now.

It's almost impossible for us amatuers to tell the difference. Even trained pros,including our own highly esteemed Bob Lusk, have difficulty. Since you are in Va., I'm guessing that it's the northern (native) strain of LMB, which are also generally the most aggressive.

You mentioned something which was very revealing and I missed it the first time I read your post...you talked about how the large LMB put up very little fight...that's a sure sign, in my experience, of a fish that has been caught before, perhaps many times.

I've fished all over, literally, and I can tell you a fish that has been caught before by the degree of fight. Go to the San Juan river trout fishing sometime, you will catch 24 inch plus trout that are like a limp rag on the line, because they have been caught so many times...and then you will get one that fights its heart out and it has never been caught before. I've seen it hundreds of times, in salt and fresh, with many different species.

That makes a lot of sense. I was thinking that the live BG was enough to slow the big fish down (being lodged in its throught), but I'd bet you are right. I like fishing on my pond, especially because it's in my backyard, but the fish have become like pets. It's nice to find an out-of-the-way place to go to where the fish have never seen a plastic worm or a spinner ('wild' fish).