While planning my trout pond (which is being constructed now), I ran across the following statement from the Virginia Extension office:

"Since trout cannot successfully compete with other kinds of fish, no other species of fish, especially minnows, should be present in a trout pond."

See http://pubs.ext.vt.edu/420/420-009/420-009.html

I thought that a healthy minnow population would provide a supplemental food source for trout over 7" or so. This is of some concern to me because the spring feeding my planned pond has a large minnow population (I'm thinking bluntnose minnows, but not positive). I certainly did not plan to rotenone.

Anyone have a tought on this.

This is just my interpretation and opinion on this, but I certainly could be wrong...

Trout feed heavily on zooplankton, particularly at sizes 12" and less. Even larger trout feed on small zooplankton. Minnows, such as fatheads and golden shiners also feed heavily on zooplankton. The concern is, in many trout ponds, the habitat for trout is right on the edge of subpar. That the minnows may actually out compete the trout for this food source in subpar conditions. If you have a substantially cold spring and that keeps your pond cold and well oxygenated, this is not so much of a concern.

Could you collecct some of these minnows? I'd be happy to ID them for you so you know what species you are dealing with... Some species IMO would be very beneficial to trout in a pond in most situations. Others may be detrimental in most situations.

If you are in the construction process of your pond as I recall you are. A way to reduce the risk of these "minnows" being present in your pond after the closing of the dam would to wait until the cold of winter to close off the dam. Most "minnows" migrate out of high gradient smaller streams to large low gradient streams for the colder months. If you close off the dam in the colder months, chances are, most if not all the "minnows" will have done this migration and not be above your dam and therefore not in your pond. Just an idea...

See if we can't ID your fish species that are present in the stream naturally and then you can decide if you want them in your pond or not...

Mo,

I believe having minnows in a pond is more of a concern if fingerlings are planted (minnows compete with them for food), or the fish are not fed pellets. Otherwise the trout will relish minnows along with the pellets.

Only downside I had to having minnnows (fatheads)in a pond with my trout, was the trout chased the minnows in shallow weedy areas and got nailed by a Great Blue Heron even though they were too big for the bird to eat. I suspect the GBH was doing his damage at night as I was vigilant during the day. Otherwise the minnows kept the trout in tip top condition over winter when I did not feed them.

Here's a pic of what a GBH did to one of my brooks that obviously had healed by the time the fish was caught. I caught three like that. About $180.00 lost in sales!

Mo, My 2 cents are the minnows won't be a problem especially if you feed the trout, I have tons of GSH and PS's and the trout do not feed heavily on the pellets, they are growing fast and seem to be getting the majority of their food naturally.

Thanks for the info. I plan to put 7" trout into the pond, ensuring some ability to fish even if the pond proves unable to sustain the trout through next summer. I do plan to provide some supplemental feed, so I don't think starvation will be a major issue.

I have a book for identifying Missouri fish that has a pretty comprehensive minnow identification guide; once I work through that, I'll report what exactly we're dealing with on the minnow side.

Forgot to mention the heron issue. Since I won't be permanently living at this site, heron's are absolutely a major concern. I already have herons that visit the small pool outside my cave, which is only populated by minnows, darters and sculpin. I'm doing everything possible to minimize very shallow areas in the new pond. Apart from that, I'm not sure there is a lot more I can do. By the way, how deep is too deep for a heron?

I also remember talking with the owner of a trout hatchery, who described how herons will perch on the side of concrete raceways and stab at trout within the raceways. Anyone ever see them do anything similar from a rock or pond bank?

Yep! I have a holding pen next to the pier with 7"-10" GSH in it. I've seen GBH standing onthe pier looking into the pen on a daily basis. As for max depth, I've seen them standing in water up to their feathers.

Cecil:

How'd the trout taste?

Cecil, Thanks for the head-up. I had no idea that GBH's fed at night. I've had a 12" and a 13" LMB killed in the last week with the "hole between the eyes" shot. I try to watch close while I can during daylight hours but now I find out the're sneaking in the backdoor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Since the GBH are sight feeders, I'd be most watchful on full moon nights or days on both sides of the full moon with little or no cloud cover.

Mo,

If you're serious about keeping the herons out you can either run a electric line around the pond or some heavy monofilament to keep them from wading in. You don't need many stakes around the pond to do so. If you let some grass grow up around the edges the stakes and mono can be invisible. I hope to do an article on this in the future.

Herons are very cunning birds and I've seen them do things they are not supposed to be able to do. One was hunt from a bank that was alledgedly too steep to fish from. I've seen them spear fish off of my piers and stand on top of my fish cages. They have an incredible ability to be able to know what the normal range of a shotgun is and stay just out of it. However last year when I had my federal permit to take two out, I swithed to 3 1/2 inch shells with buckshot that reached out a little farther. But wouldn't you know it they would stand in front of something I didn't dare hit with buckshot like my well shed?

Yes they will come in at night but not normally. Like Esshup said moonlight can make a difference. I am at a disadvantage in that the high school half a mile away is light up like a Christmas tree every night for security. It's always daylight in my back yard! I can't image what the electric bill is over there. I guess if the taxpayer pays for it they don't much worry about it. Don't get me wrong security is important but this is ridiculous!

Cecil:

If you want to borrow my 17 MachII, that'll take care of them without worrying about the well house. After handling one a few years ago I couldn't believe how thin and small the body was underneath all those feathers.

If the .17 might be too strong for you, I have a pretty accurate .177 pellet gun that will hit a 1" target @ 50 Yds consistently.

When I did have a permit (couldn't afford it this year) I preferred the 3 1/2 inch shell with # 4 buckshot. It did the job but I also had to replace several jugs that were used to float may cages. I also used a .22 with CB rounds complete with a scope. The CB rounds are not very loud at all.

I'll be looking forward to some more info on how the monofilament works. I have so many wild critters at my place that I'm worried it would get torn out by a deer, beaver, raccoon, etc.

I don't mind feeding some percentage of the fish to the herons, but some of the stories I've heard suggest it can get quite out of control.

Mo,

I will see if I can take some pictures in the next couple of days. Lots of deadlines at the moment.