Pond Boss
Posted By: KarlZ I'm a new member - 04/01/20 05:52 PM
Hello,
Just joined. We just dug new pond about 3/4s acre, 6-7 average depth; 15 max. Put in trees and boulders for structure. Has a spillway for overflow. The pond is now about 75% full from rainwater and natural spring. Wildlife is showing up already. Water is starting to clear up nicely and see just a hint of algae. My motivation for the pond was to reduce mowing and create a fishing pond. My objective is to have 3-4lb LMB to catch in three years. Consulted a pond mgt team; my stocking plan is FHMs this spring, bluegill and Red Ears next Fall, and LMB a year from now. I have lots of questions; right now I to know about testing my water to ensure it's chemically right for fish. I'm retired Army, work for the VA and will retire for good in three years, so I'm in no hurry, I just want to make a good fishing pond, and a nice place for wildlife to hang out. Any advice is appreciated. Thank you.
Posted By: TGW1 Re: I'm a new member - 04/03/20 10:57 AM
Welcome to the show Karl. Stick around as there is a lot more to a pond than digging a hole and adding water when your goal is to grow an 8 lb'er in 3 years, For me , my pond is a place to relax and get a little Pease from all that goes on and like you catch some 8 lb lmb. Look into getting the Pond Boss Magazine, lots of info there and it supports this forum. And ask away.
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: I'm a new member - 04/03/20 12:09 PM
Welcome to PB.
Posted By: jpsdad Re: I'm a new member - 04/03/20 12:37 PM
Welcome to PB. You've arrived at just the right time (right before any fish went in). I like the timeline and would only offer this advice.

1. Don't overstock the LMB next year. (this because you want 8 lb bass in three years). I am curious as to how many were recommended for your 3/4 acre pond.

2.Take advantage of the pristine condition of your pond to add some variety with regard to invertebrates. Things like Hyallela Azteca, PK shrimp, & asellus aquaticus.

3. Take advantage of this time to carefully introduce the desired plants.

Hey start a thread on your pond, it would be great to watch your progress and attain that goal.
Posted By: DNickolaus Re: I'm a new member - 04/03/20 12:57 PM
Welcome to PB. Lots of knowledgeable folks here who will help you out. I am no expert. Just a data point to ponder. I have a 5 year old pond in Indiana. It freezes over every year and I stop running the feeder roughly Oct-Apr. Feeder keeps them well fed on AquaMax and I go hand feed most nights while they are active. Pond is aerated. I did the usual stocking. Started with FHM + GSH beforehand then 2-3" BG, RES, LMB. My BG are up to a pound now- they are the mass of activity at feeding. I have RES that are over that and several of them are regulars every evening taking pellets. The LMB are around 3 lbs. Haven't caught the biggest ones I see recently, but certainly not over 4 lb. Everyone has apparently spawned every year as there are all sizes - the 10-12" bass are a hoot to watch as they are in a precarious place in the food chain but still like those LMB pellets.

In Northern waters where they really slow down a portion of the year, 8 lbs that fast would take some special steps.
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: I'm a new member - 04/03/20 01:23 PM
I guess 8 pounds in 3 years is theoretically possible. But, I don't know anyone who has ever done it.

A consideration. That bass needs forage(groceries) that is 1/4 to 1/3 it's size. Its a matter of energy expended vs calories obtained. So, a big consideration would be growing huge forage. That will be a problem in only 3 years. You might have a chance with pellet trained Floridas.
Posted By: Theo Gallus Re: I'm a new member - 04/03/20 01:55 PM
KarlZ:

The best of luck pursuing "a good fishing pond".

You might find that the pond managing is even more fulfilling than the fishing.
Posted By: nehunter Re: I'm a new member - 04/03/20 02:11 PM
That's two years of growing time. Better start out with larger bass.
Posted By: jpsdad Re: I'm a new member - 04/03/20 02:34 PM
Swingle described maximum growth of the northern strain as > 2/year. This kind of growth occurred when the LMB were unable to reproduce. He thought large numbers of BG exuded a hormone that suppressed their own (and the LMB) stimulus to spawn. Others thought the BG harassed the nest to the point they all ended in failure. It may not be black and white and may actually be grey. In any event, without the offspring intercepting their gravy train ... adult LMB may achieve their maximum growth potential.

It may not be possible to achieve 8 lbs in 3 yrs. On the other hand, if the conditions are set for maximum growth and 8 lbs was achieved in 4 or 5 years ... hey that's awesome.

It's important to understand that under normally recommended stocking rates, the achievement of 8 lb LMB may not happen even with dedicated effort in management. Typical stocking rates are designed to achieve LMB reproduction the year after stocking and are also intended to prevent BG overcrowding. Anything done to maximize BG reproduction and delay LMB reproduction will serve to rapidly grow LMB. A couple of things that will do this:

1. Fewer LMB at the initial stocking (less competition)

2. A limited number of adult BG. (Lots of food for adults to induce repeated spawning and lots of room for little BG like in a BG hatchery pond)

This would maximize the LMB growth and probably delay LMB spawning for a couple of years or more. If LMB are sufficiently restricted in the initial stocking and the pond is basically a hatchery in the beginning I think it is almost a foregone conclusion that some of LMB will attain weights of 8 lbs though it might take a year or two longer.

But to this I digress. It might be a lot more fun to try to do it (under a typical stocking plan) and fail than to actually achieve the goal. Given all the trophy fish will be the same age, there won't be many of them and the BG won't be large. Might be more fun to cull LMB and catch some nice panfish to fry. Just saying ...
Posted By: KarlZ Re: I'm a new member - 04/03/20 08:47 PM
Well, if 8lbs is overly optimistic, that’s fine. I’m not in a hurry. I just want to get the water right and get the right plants going. Any tips on water testing and recommended plants are appreciated. I’m still excited I have 3/4 acre less to MOW. A pond management company recommended the FHM (Spring), panfish & crawdads (Fall) and 50 LMB (next spring) schedule, so of that’s not a good plan, please educate me as to why. Another fish farm said I could stock them all at once.....HE must need to sell some fish to pay the bills. I’m not doing that.
We crunched up trees and added big limestone boulders for structure. Getting my water and plants right is my priority. Again suggestions are welcome. I’m in Kansas.
Posted By: KarlZ Re: I'm a new member - 04/03/20 10:58 PM
Thanks, I tried posting some (.jpg) pics, but got a message that they were blocked. Gave up.
Posted By: KarlZ Re: I'm a new member - 04/03/20 11:09 PM
Thanks, I see 8lbs is too ambitious, no worries. I received my first copy of PB this week!
Posted By: RStringer Re: I'm a new member - 04/03/20 11:57 PM
Welcome KarlZ, no clue really on the growth rates. Mainly just welcoming ya. If you have some pics of your place please post them if you would like. It's nice to see others ideas.
Posted By: DNickolaus Re: I'm a new member - 04/04/20 12:29 AM
You will find some who will advise to stock northern ponds together if they are same size class. I put in BG and LMB same day. They were all 2-3". The bass won't reproduce the first year and maybe not the second. There were small BG all over the place the second year. First year, the bass were mostly wiping out FHM. By second year, the GSH were pretty well gone. They were eating pellets the whole time.

If your LMB are larger, you may want that gap in stocking to let the BG get going and have enough size to escape that maw. My BG grew fast enough that there have always been a good number big enough that no LMB could eat them. The first year, my LMB were mostly adding length. They remained slender until about 14". Then they started getting wider and the mouth got bigger and they started hitting mid-size BG. I have 1 lb BG now and I doubt I will ever have LMB that can take them. As I understand it, that is what will mess up your plan if LMB get big mouths before a portion of the BG are too big to eat.
Posted By: jpsdad Re: I'm a new member - 04/04/20 03:29 AM
Originally Posted by KarlZ
A pond management company recommended the FHM (Spring), panfish & crawdads (Fall) and 50 LMB (next spring) schedule, so of that’s not a good plan, please educate me as to why.


That's a typical stocking recommendation leaning to favor larger bass. So its not uncommon to see recommended stocking rates between ranging between 50 and 100 LMB fingerlings per acre. There is a huge difference between 50 and 100. The difference for you will be that they will grow faster and fewer fish will need to be culled, 38 LMB would be 50/ac for your pond.

It is possible to go with less LMB. I'm just going on memory now, but it seems I read in a thread here that Greg Grimes will go as few as 25/ac. That said, if you go with that small a quantity it is important that there be a great abundance of BG in order to inhibit LMB reproduction. I don't see anything wrong with 50 (66/acre) but culling will still remain an important part of your management. Without it, growth will start slowing around the 3 lb weight might completely stall at less than 5 lbs.

These stall weights are predictable and you can do the math. If your pond is on the upper end at say around 100 lbs/acre (75 lbs). What's the potential average weight of the original stockers? It is clear that you must depend on mortality if you are going to grow trophies. There will be some natural mortality but probably not enough without culling some fish yourself.

It's just me and there probably nothing to it .... but I might be reluctant to introduce the crawfish that early in the game. It's just they can and will eat a fair number of your minnows and creatures your bluegill need. They will also raid BG nests and might impact that forage source in a negative way. They grow fast and reproduce in great numbers. To make matters worse most will be too big to feed your fingerling bass when you stock next spring. As long as you have plenty of good cover, I think the introduction can wait until the fall after stocking the LMB. I would probably release them near cover after dark. Enough cover to protect ~20 lbs of crawfish is all you need. They will reproduce and disperse through the pond periodically and be good forage for the LMB and panfish.

I presumed that the 3 years was to start at the LMB introduction. I think its very realistic to set a goal of 5 to 6 lbs for that milestone. 8lbs is possible for sure if not in 3 yrs ... within a couple more with good management.
Posted By: teehjaeh57 Re: I'm a new member - 04/04/20 04:38 AM
Originally Posted by Theo Gallus
KarlZ:

The best of luck pursuing "a good fishing pond".

You might find that the pond managing is even more fulfilling than the fishing.

Originally Posted by Theo Gallus
KarlZ:

The best of luck pursuing "a good fishing pond".

You might find that the pond managing is even more fulfilling than the fishing.

+1
Posted By: TGW1 Re: I'm a new member - 04/04/20 11:35 AM
I'm thinking feed trained northern lmb and feed heavily purina lmb and stock 30 bg to 1 lmb along with 20 or 30 lbs of FHM's at the start. Based on what I have seen it might be possible to get a couple of the stockers there. The ones we call jumpers.
Posted By: Flame Re: I'm a new member - 04/04/20 12:45 PM
Dave Davidson, Last year I was at Smokey's pond about an hours drive from me here in deep east Texas. He and I dug our ponds the same time and stocked them at about the same time from Overton's fishery. Last year he had Overton's come out and do a electroshock survey and was nice enough to invite me over to watch! I had never seen one done. I have pictures and video of one of his lmb that weighed OVER 8 POUNDS!! It was ONLY 3 years old! Now you know someone who has done it and I got to witness it. It was amazing! So proud of all his hard work!! Just thought I would pass that on to you.
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: I'm a new member - 04/04/20 01:08 PM
Flame, that's impressive and I've never even heard of it happening. Fish like that need to go to the TPWD breeding facility at Athens.
Posted By: Sock Puppet Re: I'm a new member - 04/04/20 04:00 PM
Originally Posted by teehjaeh57
Originally Posted by Theo Gallus
KarlZ:

The best of luck pursuing "a good fishing pond".

You might find that the pond managing is even more fulfilling than the fishing.

Originally Posted by Theo Gallus
KarlZ:

The best of luck pursuing "a good fishing pond".

You might find that the pond managing is even more fulfilling than the fishing.

+1

Shouldn't that be +2, TJ?

Did you learn math at U of Nebraska? grin
Posted By: KarlZ Re: I'm a new member - 04/04/20 11:56 PM
Originally Posted by jpsdad
Originally Posted by KarlZ
A pond management company recommended the FHM (Spring), panfish & crawdads (Fall) and 50 LMB (next spring) schedule, so of that’s not a good plan, please educate me as to why.


That's a typical stocking recommendation leaning to favor larger bass. So its not uncommon to see recommended stocking rates between ranging between 50 and 100 LMB fingerlings per acre. There is a huge difference between 50 and 100. The difference for you will be that they will grow faster and fewer fish will need to be culled, 38 LMB would be 50/ac for your pond.

It is possible to go with less LMB. I'm just going on memory now, but it seems I read in a thread here that Greg Grimes will go as few as 25/ac. That said, if you go with that small a quantity it is important that there be a great abundance of BG in order to inhibit LMB reproduction. I don't see anything wrong with 50 (66/acre) but culling will still remain an important part of your management. Without it, growth will start slowing around the 3 lb weight might completely stall at less than 5 lbs.

These stall weights are predictable and you can do the math. If your pond is on the upper end at say around 100 lbs/acre (75 lbs). What's the potential average weight of the original stockers? It is clear that you must depend on mortality if you are going to grow trophies. There will be some natural mortality but probably not enough without culling some fish yourself.

It's just me and there probably nothing to it .... but I might be reluctant to introduce the crawfish that early in the game. It's just they can and will eat a fair number of your minnows and creatures your bluegill need. They will also raid BG nests and might impact that forage source in a negative way. They grow fast and reproduce in great numbers. To make matters worse most will be too big to feed your fingerling bass when you stock next spring. As long as you have plenty of good cover, I think the introduction can wait until the fall after stocking the LMB. I would probably release them near cover after dark. Enough cover to protect ~20 lbs of crawfish is all you need. They will reproduce and disperse through the pond periodically and be good forage for the LMB and panfish.

I presumed that the 3 years was to start at the LMB introduction. I think its very realistic to set a goal of 5 to 6 lbs for that milestone. 8lbs is possible for sure if not in 3 yrs ... within a couple more with good management.



Jpsdad Really good info and I appreciate it. I think stocking 38 instead of 50 is a sound idea.

I’m sorry I posted my “fishing goal of 8 lbs in three years as that has dominated all my replies. I officially hereby abandon that goal for something more reasonable.
For now I need to know what plants I should put in, and how I get my water & soil tested. I’m all ears! Lol....
Posted By: RStringer Re: I'm a new member - 04/05/20 12:31 AM
Karlz dont abandon your goal. You MIGHT not hit the goal. But who really knows 100%. If therea one thing I have learned from this place is "it depends". You could end up with a bully with good genetics that's eats all the groceries. Even if most get to 6 lbs hell I'd love to have a day of landing a few 6 r's.
Posted By: Flame Re: I'm a new member - 04/05/20 01:33 PM
Just for reference...I stocked thousands of cnbg,res,and fhm and waited another full year before stocking ONLY 50 4 inch pure Florida strain feed trained lmb from Overton's!! All this in a 2 acre pond!
Posted By: jpsdad Re: I'm a new member - 04/06/20 03:12 AM
KarlZ,

You never mentioned how many bluegill you will be stocking. I will comment on some ideas that I think will help you grow your LMB faster and to greater ultimate size. Rather than looking at the number of bluegill consider instead some target for the weight of mature and breeding BG.

For purpose of growing fingerling BG, the total "goldilocks" weight of adults is usually between 25 to 40 lbs/ac. So if the pond supports 400 lbs of BG, it is possible to grow roughly 360 lbs of 2" fingerlings from a single spawning of these fish in about 60 days. But what if there were 200 lbs of adults? Well no more than 200 lbs.

Were it me I would want my stocker BG to have attained a minimum length of about 6 inches around LMB stocking time the following spring and I would want them to weigh about 25 to 30 lbs/acre. To achieve this, one would probably need to stock the bigger fingerlings. So usually you see 1-3" and 3-6" fingerlings offered. The difference between a 6" and a 3" fingerling (or 4" and a 2" fingerling) is 8 times the weight. So you are talking about fingerlings that weigh 8 times more and that cost 2 times as much. Pretty good value if you ask me. 30 lbs/acre of 6" BG is approximately 180 BG/acre - might be good to fudge at 200 BG/acre (which is 150 for your pond). So that would be my approach and I would stock them as large as I could find them in the 3" to 6" range.

Having a smaller number of adults will help you maintain the conditions for fingerling production much longer than a heavy stocking of smaller fingerlings. Two years later -- these original stockers will probably be around 9" and will with no mortality will comprise no more than 125 lbs/acre. A smaller number of larger BG in your Fall stocking would help you in these ways.

1. With abundant invertebrate forage they will be sexually mature and at the optimum standing weight to produce the greatest amount of forage for your bass the following spring.

2. A lower number of adult BG will compete less with your fingerling bass for resources like FHM.

3. There will be so many small BG produced that many will survive to the 2"-4" size. This abundance of small BG will help to keep LMB reproduction limited.

4. In the early going, the major portion of the standing weight of BG will be in YOY. In other words, most of the standing weight of BG will be concentrated in prey of vulnerable size meaning that reaching carrying capacity may be delayed. The importance of this is that there should be repeated spawning as the conditions under the LMB's efficient cropping of YOY will be favorable both to adult BG and YOY BG.

5. The lower number initial stockers will never be able to take over a majority of the BG carrying capacity and so long as their offspring are efficiently cropped, there will be plenty of space and resources to boost BG reproduction.

Posted By: teehjaeh57 Re: I'm a new member - 04/06/20 05:48 AM
Originally Posted by Sock Puppet
Originally Posted by teehjaeh57
Originally Posted by Theo Gallus
KarlZ:

The best of luck pursuing "a good fishing pond".

You might find that the pond managing is even more fulfilling than the fishing.

Originally Posted by Theo Gallus
KarlZ:

The best of luck pursuing "a good fishing pond".

You might find that the pond managing is even more fulfilling than the fishing.

+1

Shouldn't that be +2, TJ?

Did you learn math at U of Nebraska? grin


Damn you Sock Puppet - lurking in the shadows for my one posting error of the decade.
Posted By: KarlZ Re: I'm a new member - 04/12/20 01:50 PM
Jpsdad-
like my “8lb LMB goal” I’ve had to rethink my stocking plan as well. I have only two farm options here, and both put several kinds of fish in at the same time. I’m deferring to one’s expertise (since I have none) so here’s what’s coming soon to my 3/4 acre pond;
20 lbs FHM, 100 Channel cats, 375 BG, 150 HBG, 150 Red Ears.

Next year he suggests another 20lbs FHM and 75 LMB. I may overrule that and only take 30-40 LMB.
Posted By: jpsdad Re: I'm a new member - 04/13/20 01:26 AM
I'm at a loss as to why he thinks you need 20 additional pounds of FHM next year. There should be standing weight of minnows several times that weight going into spring.

I guess my question is this. Is there no option to get exactly what you want?
Posted By: KarlZ Re: I'm a new member - 04/13/20 01:56 AM
Oh yes, I can tailor what I buy. There are no mandatory packages. I didn’t initially want channel cats, but he strongly urged me to do so for a balanced fish population. I guess it’s the standard newbie dilemma; how far does one trust the expertise of fish farms who sell fish for a living, and whom other local pond owners endorse? Many ponds around here seem to stock minnows annually. Lol.
Posted By: jpsdad Re: I'm a new member - 04/13/20 02:40 AM
Well I think he thinks you would enjoy the catfish. They are not needed for balance. The catfish are NOT going to help you grow 8 lb bass. For that matter neither will so many RES and any Hybrid BG. Don't get me wrong, they are fun to catch and I know I and the fish farmer would enjoy them but is this what you want? Decent sized panfish and small bass? His recommendation is for that and there nothing wrong with it if that is what you want.

Usually, to get what you want, you have to sacrifice something or work harder for it. For trophy LMB, it is easier to sacrifice some things than to work harder for it. For example, you could sacrifice a large population of harvestable panfish that are too large for the LMB to eat. You could sacrifice having HBG and catfish. You could sacrifice having so many RES but enough to handle snails and add modest forage. You could sacrifice, as you are already thinking, a lot of bass. All these sacrifices make it much easier to grow large LMB with less effort. It's like stacking the cards. Stack the cards for 8 lb LMB and there is a very good chance you will grow them. Make compromises to have the things you could sacrifice and the sledding to 8lb LMB will be much harder. In the end, whether you achieve the goal of 8 lb LMB will depend on whether you worked hard enough to overcome any compromises made.

You'll just be going in with minnows and plants for now. So there is plenty of time to think about what you really want and what you don't want to sacrifice. Think about these two questions because the answers to them determine what course you should take.
Posted By: KarlZ Re: I'm a new member - 04/13/20 03:52 AM
Good info that I will spend a lot of time studying on this. As you say, there is time. I appreciate the candor.
So, cutting out HBG and catfish, what numbers of FHM and BG/RES would be better? And come LMB stocking time next year; is it better to go with larger sized ones up front (30 or so) as opposed to fingerlings?
Posted By: Snipe Re: I'm a new member - 04/13/20 04:17 AM
I'm with jpsdad here.. Leave cats and HBG out unless you specifically want them. Nothing there will help your goal of decent LMB.
10-15lbs of FHM will be plenty.
375 on BG doesn't sound too bad to me, maybe 75-100 RES.
As for LMB, be careful with larger fish and chose the largest for the time of year as you don't want fish that aren't growing at max rate. You have better growing conditions at your end of the state-longer as well, but If stocking larger LMB in spring I'd look for 7-8" minimum, 8-11" would be expected with the growing season you have in your area with well-fed fish from hatchery.
If someone tries to push 4-6" yr 1 LMB on you, move on.. and, if you're having trouble sourcing fish let me know, I'll set you up with 2 of Kansas's best.
Posted By: KarlZ Re: I'm a new member - 04/13/20 11:58 AM
Snipe - that’s more in line with the numbers and fish my initial research bore out. My thanks to you both. Now to find a cooperative farm. Please do email me the two contacts you have; I’m all about different options in a free market system. kdzetmeir@aol.com
Posted By: jpsdad Re: I'm a new member - 04/13/20 01:17 PM
Karl,

For me, just personal preference, I think I would enjoy the farmers recs and catch a lot of good panfish and scrappy small bass for recreation and eating. I know that this is what the farmer is thinking when he makes the rec he gave you. There is always the risk of dissatisfaction even though someone gets what they want. If he set you up for a trophy bass foregone conclusion there is the risk you might say about his advice:

"Yeah I have some big bass but I fish 4 hours to catch one and the bluegill are small. I can't catch the bigger ones because the little ones beat them to the hook every time. I dreamed of pond where I caught a lot of fish but I have a pond that I fish two or three evening to catch one (very big) fish."

Trophy bass are a different animal altogether. Most large impoundments either don't produce them or they produce them in concentrations that are quantified in acres/fish ... not fish/acre. In the best of them, it takes > 80 hours of fishing effort to catch one and many fishermen never do. Consider bass tournaments, the best of the best even bear this out. So if you can catch a 8lb bass once for every 4 to 6 hours of effort, the bass fishing for trophies is well beyond excellent.

An 8 pound bass (on average) needs 40 lbs/yrs of forage (>4" in length) in order to maintain its weight. At 50 lbs/yr, it will grow a pound. So if you have 8 of these in your 3/4 acre pond it will take around 400 lbs/year of forage to maintain and grow just them. Whether your bow can do this will depend on how many smaller bass you have and what standing weight of (too many-too big) BG and RES you have. For an 8 lb bass, 3.8" to 4.8" forage will comprise 68% of their numerical intake of prey(~ 60% by weight). This is the optimum length in terms of energy gained and capture success. Prey of this length have little defense against an 8 lb bass. They also eat larger prey and 4.8 to 6 in forage will comprise 13% of the their diet numerically(~24% by weight). Prey above 6" do not commonly fall prey to 8 lb LMB unless sick or dying but still would comprise ~13% of weight. Around 84% of the weight an 8 lb LMB eats is comprised of prey ranging between 3.8" and 6" in length. In a bow where 8lb LMB only have > 6" BG to eat, eg ponds where YOY are cropped by smaller bass, the 8 lb LMB begin making the trek of having a 2 lb head and a 3 pound body. Scroll down this thread to see an example of that.

Having a large standing weight of harvestable panfish that are too large for LMB to eat will significantly lower the production of 3.8" to 4.8" forage (especially when small bass are present) and this has the effect of starving Trophy LMB. So it is often recommended that one have a small forage pond to raise 2" to 3" BG to supplement the food chain. Other things people do is stock tilapia. So tilapia grow fast and can attain > 4" in less than a growing season. Furthermore, they eat foods that the BG can't expanding annual production of prey. Once your LMB get to 5 lbs, TP will do a lot to help them keep growing.

Big bass can be expensive to grow. But this can be lessened by stacking your deck. If you are willing to forgo the fishing diversity and enjoyment that big panfish can bring ... and would be satisfied with 2 or 3 trophies catches/week fishing evenings ... then I would expand on thoughts already presented that I think would help you to grow some massive LMB.
Posted By: KarlZ Re: I'm a new member - 04/13/20 11:23 PM
After the excellent info you and Snipe provided and doing some more online research to include googling photos of different sized largemouth bass, i’ve totally revised my fishing goals for this pond. I now think LMB in the 3 to 4 pound range would be good enough. I readjusted my fish stocking order today for only FHM, BG and RES. Later when vegetation spreads, maybe a grass carp or two or even Talapia. Many thanks again for the great information you both provided!
Posted By: Bill Cody Re: I'm a new member - 04/14/20 01:50 AM
If you stock pellet trained LMB you will very easily grow 3-4 lb bass in just 3-4 years. Add several hybrid striped bass per acre and you will have a fantastic, enjoyable fishery.
Posted By: jpsdad Re: I'm a new member - 04/14/20 02:17 AM
Originally Posted by KarlZ
After the excellent info you and Snipe provided and doing some more online research to include googling photos of different sized largemouth bass, i’ve totally revised my fishing goals for this pond. I now think LMB in the 3 to 4 pound range would be good enough. I readjusted my fish stocking order today for only FHM, BG and RES. Later when vegetation spreads, maybe a grass carp or two or even Talapia. Many thanks again for the great information you both provided!


I think you are going to really enjoy this plan.
Posted By: KarlZ Re: I'm a new member - 04/14/20 07:51 PM
Forgot to mention that I’ll wait a year before stocking LMB to let the minnows and panfish really take off. I do like the idea of a couple hybrid stripers, but haven’t found a farm in the Midwest that has them.
Posted By: Snipe Re: I'm a new member - 04/14/20 09:13 PM
Harbin fish farms east of Wichita. If Mark doesn't have them I know where some 4-6" fish are right now.
I would still wait to stock those also though.. let the forage base build first.
Posted By: KarlZ Re: I'm a new member - 04/15/20 01:30 AM
Much obliged!!
Posted By: KarlZ Re: I'm a new member - 04/20/20 03:17 PM
After reading through several other threads about spring-fed ponds vs. groundwater ponds, I've come to think my builder was incorrect saying ours was spring-fed. From one of the threads, I take it a true spring-fed pond will continuously fill the pond so water will be going through the pipe or over a spillway. When ours was dug, water did start seeping into it, but it hasn't "filled" it up and the water lever only rises after a hard rain. It's still about four feet below the spillway. Our area seems to have a high water table (if that makes sense), as we had to install a sump pump in our basement that runs regularly, and there are a few very "leaky" front yards down the street from us. What are some things I should watch for, given its really not a spring-fed pond?
Posted By: canyoncreek Re: I'm a new member - 04/20/20 05:14 PM
If you have a ground water pond then the pond will seek the level that matches the water table. If your pond has more water than surrounding water levels it will go down and if you get rain, run off or the water table comes up so will your pond. You should mount an aluminum ruler on a stake or mark a PVC pipe and drive it in the shallows of the pond. Track your water height up and down for a while and you'll get a feel for what the factors are that make your water go up and down.

As temps go up you will lose some from sun/evaporation and those with wind exposure will lose more from evaporation than those with sheltered ponds.

IF you don't like the level your pond is at now (and it probably is about where it is going to be since you haven't mentioned super heavy rains or unusually hot weather).. Then you either add to it with a well to keep it above the level it wants to seek or you plug access to the ground water table. Adding water works best if you have a big well and efficient well motor and a good power source near the pond. Some use gasoline powered pumps connected to a nearby stream. It can get costly especially since you CAN raise your pond level, but you usually CANNOT raise the water table level all around you.

Most of use either learned to like the level that our pond sought for itself, or we used soilfloc powdered floculant/polymer to seal the bottom of the pond and then could more easily keep it at a higher level.
Posted By: KarlZ Re: I'm a new member - 04/20/20 09:24 PM
Thanks very much. I’ll make a PVC marker (using a stump right now). The pond is still filling as it goes up a bit after each. Our heaviest rains haven’t hit yet.
Posted By: KarlZ Re: I'm a new member - 04/21/20 04:53 PM
Figured out how to post photos. Started a new gallery with a good pic of the new pond.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showgallery&Number=519679
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