managing for trophy GSF - 11/15/07 02:59 AM
I got the idea for this thread from See here:
http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=102048
(Our) apologies to Archer for a major hijacking.
Why start this thread? To annoy most of the country? To target what I know is already a limited audience? To grow membership (and dues) in the GSA? Trust me, I am no expert and this is certainly not a “how to” post, its basically just my story and a place to begin to pull it all together. Hopefully, anybody interested in this style of pondbossing can glean some useful information and keep this an informative thread for managing what should not be an unusual fish……this is not to say you shouldn’t post any jokes here, hijack the thread, or tell me what a balding middle-aged idiot I am Come to think of it, this could be my mid-life crisis....my wife will happy its not a corvette If this generates sufficient interest, condensing management “how to’s” can evolve later, though I think its time for a rough draft. Thanks to pondboss for a place to document it.
I started my 1 acre pond renovation two years ago (10/05) primarily so I could fish in my yard again. The pond filled by 1/06. Within a month, the pond was loaded w/ critters……. insects, frogs, tadpoles, and turtles. For fish, at first I was thinking standard LMB/BG. To get things started, in 4/06, I stocked 9 mosquito fish obtained from the County the day after an oxygen crash in their tanks. These 9 survivors in my pond turned into tens of thousands by late summer 06…..it was unbelievable to watch.
The next step was establishing a BG forage base…..standard stuff, but where to get them. At the time, I could not locate a supplier anywhere around my area. In my eagerness to get something in the pond (what many would call my first major mistake) I turned to my neighbor/rancher who has an unmanaged 5 acre pond downstream from me stocked many many years ago with LMB and “perch”.
These “perch” were about the biggest I’d ever seen. The ranch pond as it turns out was (is) a LMB heavy pond w/ scarce forage and occasional lunkers, pretty much like JHAP’s. LMB up to 11 pounds (that I know of) have been caught down there, but most are 10-14 inches and thin. As such, the few surviving “perch” grew to incredible sizes. So I caught some of these pig “perch” and thanks to pondboss (bill cody, ewest, bruce, theo, and others) learned they were GSF, and some of the largest GSF anybody had seen. This really started my interest in these fish and I stocked about 30 of these nice fish ranging in size from 9 to 11 inches in May/June 2006.
These fish spawned by later summer 06, and I believe they spawned again in the Fall 06 based on the two size classes observed the following spring 07 (the 2.5 and 5-inch fish)
In early 2007, I stocked ~1,500 BG
and 30 adult RES (fun story that was huh JHAP?)
and dabbled with the idea of spotted bass as a top predator. But the more I thought about it, the more I began to believe my huge GSF could manage as top predator for some time.
By the spring of 07 I became worried my original stockers didn’t have enough to eat, gotten skinny, or maybe even died off. I was unable to see them with an aquaview camera (operator error probably), hadn’t seen any in the shallows or hitting the surface since the Fall 06 before, but I really hadn’t fished for them yet. Before I had stocked the BG in Feb. 07, all they had to eat were the gazillion mosquito fish and their own offspring. One fine day in May 07 when I had the time and decided to “sample” fish, these were what I caught……..remarkable……they hadn’t really grown much in length since June 2006 but my God, the girth on these guys was jaw dropping. They were in there and doin better than fine.
Knowing how much the pond would fluctuate due to summer draw down, I decided to stop here on the stocking, and just watch and nurture this current mix of fish. I started routine nightly aeration this last summer, and thanks to Sunil, have gone through (3) 50 pound bags of aquamax (occasional feeding). I had the food chain goin strong from plankton, to mosquito fish, to all sorts of lepomis fry and YOY, so, in reality, and for the record, i have been managing for GSF as top predator for almost 2 years now.
A side track is also managing the BG and RES, with both showing really fantastic growth rates. Interestingly, I don’t see clouds of fry and YOY. Population numbers are being controlled (I believe) by 3 major factors (where LMB are not necessarily needed):
1) major summer drawdown (decrease in carrying capacity) and potential disruption to spawning beds
2) concentration of and predation on fry by mosquito fish
3) concentration and predation on YOY by all adult lepomis species, and GSF predation on any fish too large for BG or RES predation
So, why manage for GSF?
1) GSF can withstand the extreme conditions of probably any pond, managed or unmanaged, for me it’s chiefly fluctuating water levels and extreme summer heat
2) pound for pound (or ounce for ounce) they rank as one of the best sportfish i have ever caught on light tackle.
3) GSF can get big. I have proof. i am really curious how large i can grow them in my pond and how long they can maintain top predator status before showing signs of overpopulating or stunting (particularly in the presence of other lepomis and the absence of lmb)
4) to date i have not seen a bigger GSF than those coming out of my pond, this provides me additional enthusiasm to carry on the experiment. the world record might be over 2 pounds, but i have never seen or heard of anyone even getting GSF to 10-inches or over a pound until i stumbled on to it (show me if you got em, I’d love to see them).
5) i am really curious if cross breeding will occur w/ the other lepomis given my pond conditions and water quality. There are no signs of it yet after one breeding season.
6) i have a relatively small pond and can start over if all goes to hell
ewest provided me the idea of female only bass a long time ago. if all goes to hell, i could as theo says, manage out of the situation probably pretty easily. either way the journey is a blast, and I’ll always remember Bruce Condello’s approach to simple pond management: “Identify the fish you want to grow big, then assure that there are fewer fish than their particular food resource will support”. I have that right now.
specifics about the pond, factors such as water quality, climate, geology, structure, food sources all play a role and in this i have achieved (what is to me) unbelievable growth rates. my original stocking of summer 2006, and first spawn in late summer 2006 has yielded 8-inch class size fish in a little over 1 year....this fact did not seem to raise any eyebrows, but perhaps a steady stream of 10-inch 1 pound plus fish by the end of next summer may merit some attention and pique interest in other pondmeisters. and meanwhile i trust some of my original stockers are still lurking somewhere in the deep end approaching world class status
reflecting, its interesting that what started out as one thing (fix pond, get fish) ends up as something quite different (a trophy GSF obsession) thanks (I think) to the knowledge, wisdom, and friendships of the folks at PondBoss
if you would like to join the GSA, please contact JHAP, committee chairman, laser guiding technician, and cpa, po box 555 flushing meadows.
gw, i cant wait to compare notes w/ yer maggot eating warmouth.
http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=102048
(Our) apologies to Archer for a major hijacking.
Why start this thread? To annoy most of the country? To target what I know is already a limited audience? To grow membership (and dues) in the GSA? Trust me, I am no expert and this is certainly not a “how to” post, its basically just my story and a place to begin to pull it all together. Hopefully, anybody interested in this style of pondbossing can glean some useful information and keep this an informative thread for managing what should not be an unusual fish……this is not to say you shouldn’t post any jokes here, hijack the thread, or tell me what a balding middle-aged idiot I am Come to think of it, this could be my mid-life crisis....my wife will happy its not a corvette If this generates sufficient interest, condensing management “how to’s” can evolve later, though I think its time for a rough draft. Thanks to pondboss for a place to document it.
I started my 1 acre pond renovation two years ago (10/05) primarily so I could fish in my yard again. The pond filled by 1/06. Within a month, the pond was loaded w/ critters……. insects, frogs, tadpoles, and turtles. For fish, at first I was thinking standard LMB/BG. To get things started, in 4/06, I stocked 9 mosquito fish obtained from the County the day after an oxygen crash in their tanks. These 9 survivors in my pond turned into tens of thousands by late summer 06…..it was unbelievable to watch.
The next step was establishing a BG forage base…..standard stuff, but where to get them. At the time, I could not locate a supplier anywhere around my area. In my eagerness to get something in the pond (what many would call my first major mistake) I turned to my neighbor/rancher who has an unmanaged 5 acre pond downstream from me stocked many many years ago with LMB and “perch”.
These “perch” were about the biggest I’d ever seen. The ranch pond as it turns out was (is) a LMB heavy pond w/ scarce forage and occasional lunkers, pretty much like JHAP’s. LMB up to 11 pounds (that I know of) have been caught down there, but most are 10-14 inches and thin. As such, the few surviving “perch” grew to incredible sizes. So I caught some of these pig “perch” and thanks to pondboss (bill cody, ewest, bruce, theo, and others) learned they were GSF, and some of the largest GSF anybody had seen. This really started my interest in these fish and I stocked about 30 of these nice fish ranging in size from 9 to 11 inches in May/June 2006.
These fish spawned by later summer 06, and I believe they spawned again in the Fall 06 based on the two size classes observed the following spring 07 (the 2.5 and 5-inch fish)
In early 2007, I stocked ~1,500 BG
and 30 adult RES (fun story that was huh JHAP?)
and dabbled with the idea of spotted bass as a top predator. But the more I thought about it, the more I began to believe my huge GSF could manage as top predator for some time.
By the spring of 07 I became worried my original stockers didn’t have enough to eat, gotten skinny, or maybe even died off. I was unable to see them with an aquaview camera (operator error probably), hadn’t seen any in the shallows or hitting the surface since the Fall 06 before, but I really hadn’t fished for them yet. Before I had stocked the BG in Feb. 07, all they had to eat were the gazillion mosquito fish and their own offspring. One fine day in May 07 when I had the time and decided to “sample” fish, these were what I caught……..remarkable……they hadn’t really grown much in length since June 2006 but my God, the girth on these guys was jaw dropping. They were in there and doin better than fine.
Knowing how much the pond would fluctuate due to summer draw down, I decided to stop here on the stocking, and just watch and nurture this current mix of fish. I started routine nightly aeration this last summer, and thanks to Sunil, have gone through (3) 50 pound bags of aquamax (occasional feeding). I had the food chain goin strong from plankton, to mosquito fish, to all sorts of lepomis fry and YOY, so, in reality, and for the record, i have been managing for GSF as top predator for almost 2 years now.
A side track is also managing the BG and RES, with both showing really fantastic growth rates. Interestingly, I don’t see clouds of fry and YOY. Population numbers are being controlled (I believe) by 3 major factors (where LMB are not necessarily needed):
1) major summer drawdown (decrease in carrying capacity) and potential disruption to spawning beds
2) concentration of and predation on fry by mosquito fish
3) concentration and predation on YOY by all adult lepomis species, and GSF predation on any fish too large for BG or RES predation
So, why manage for GSF?
1) GSF can withstand the extreme conditions of probably any pond, managed or unmanaged, for me it’s chiefly fluctuating water levels and extreme summer heat
2) pound for pound (or ounce for ounce) they rank as one of the best sportfish i have ever caught on light tackle.
3) GSF can get big. I have proof. i am really curious how large i can grow them in my pond and how long they can maintain top predator status before showing signs of overpopulating or stunting (particularly in the presence of other lepomis and the absence of lmb)
4) to date i have not seen a bigger GSF than those coming out of my pond, this provides me additional enthusiasm to carry on the experiment. the world record might be over 2 pounds, but i have never seen or heard of anyone even getting GSF to 10-inches or over a pound until i stumbled on to it (show me if you got em, I’d love to see them).
5) i am really curious if cross breeding will occur w/ the other lepomis given my pond conditions and water quality. There are no signs of it yet after one breeding season.
6) i have a relatively small pond and can start over if all goes to hell
ewest provided me the idea of female only bass a long time ago. if all goes to hell, i could as theo says, manage out of the situation probably pretty easily. either way the journey is a blast, and I’ll always remember Bruce Condello’s approach to simple pond management: “Identify the fish you want to grow big, then assure that there are fewer fish than their particular food resource will support”. I have that right now.
specifics about the pond, factors such as water quality, climate, geology, structure, food sources all play a role and in this i have achieved (what is to me) unbelievable growth rates. my original stocking of summer 2006, and first spawn in late summer 2006 has yielded 8-inch class size fish in a little over 1 year....this fact did not seem to raise any eyebrows, but perhaps a steady stream of 10-inch 1 pound plus fish by the end of next summer may merit some attention and pique interest in other pondmeisters. and meanwhile i trust some of my original stockers are still lurking somewhere in the deep end approaching world class status
reflecting, its interesting that what started out as one thing (fix pond, get fish) ends up as something quite different (a trophy GSF obsession) thanks (I think) to the knowledge, wisdom, and friendships of the folks at PondBoss
if you would like to join the GSA, please contact JHAP, committee chairman, laser guiding technician, and cpa, po box 555 flushing meadows.
gw, i cant wait to compare notes w/ yer maggot eating warmouth.