Based on excellent info provided here, I now have a great SMB/YP pond with both species spawning. Our local ag university and DNR have both published recommendations against stocking SMB in small ponds due to the need for cold water, and the later info says they will not reproduce in ponds. I have contacted fisheries folks from both organizations and they both consider my pond an "outlier" (without any further investigation or a visit on their part). Have the pond professionals here ever had any luck getting university or government recommendations to stop perpetuating this myth? Seems like a lot more folks could be enjoying SMB ponds. Are you aware of any papers in fishery science journals that catalog how common these erroneous recommendations are? I have quite a bit of experience publishing scientific papers in my area of biology, but am not familiar with the fisheries field or journals. However, I would certainly be willing to help a fisheries professional from the Pond Boss family prepare such a manuscript with the intention of persuading those in official positions at universities and government agencies to better represent updated info on SMB as a good pond fish in the Midwest (when LMB and BG can be excluded). Any interest? Do those in other states have similar outdated recommendations? Are their any well respected fishery science journals that do not have page charges for those without funding?

Excellent questions, as those "official" positions on SMB in small ponds are a bunch of hooey.

This is a quick draft intro of the paper (or short communication) that I am thinking of:

"Smallmouth bass in small ponds: misunderstood and maligned

Smallmouth bass (Micropterus dolomieu) can thrive and spawn in Midwestern ponds with fairly warm water if the more commonly recommended largemouth bass (Micropterus salmoides) and bluegill sunfish (Lepomis macrochirus) are excluded. Counter to the outdated official recommendations from some universities and state government agencies, smallmouth bass do not require cold water, but rather are outcompeted by these more commonly stocked species in small warm-water ponds. Like channel catfish (Ictalurus punctatus)(also commonly recommended for small ponds), smallmouth bass do need specialized spawning structures, although smallmouth bass require simple rock or masonry spawning structures, rather than the cavity spawning structures required for channel catfish.

Here we provide examples of outdated recommendations against stocking smallmouth bass in Midwestern ponds, provide updated recommendations for successful use of smallmouth bass in ponds, and document the successful stocking of smallmouth bass in small warm-water ponds."



-- As a non-expert, I would need to collaborate with someone who is.

RAH, my experience with our DNR (and the state fisheries biology dept) involved tilapia stocking in Iowa (it's currently not allowed). I found them to be utterly resistant to any scientific persuasion, even when supplying well written supportive evidence. My suspicion is that those positions, as politically appointed ones, are unduly influence by political pressures, and too little influenced by science. In the case of tilapia, they spouted some nonsense about fears of introducing an invasive species (despite the iron clad evidence tilapia cannot survive the winters in the midwest , with water temps well below the ~50°F that kills them). SMB carry no such risks (as they are a widespread native species) and the risks of any such experimental stocking combinations would simply be monetary to the pond owner. As you have clearly shown, there can be great success with SMB in ponds.

I hope and pray you have some success. *fingers crossed*

I think the resistance to using SMB is not political but rather dismissive. They already know the answer, so new information must be wrong. My hope is that publishing in a peer-reviewed scientific journal on specific outdated recommendations (with solid evidence on SMB in ponds) would be harder to ignore.

I have addressed this with the State of Kansas as well. Being in the unique position I am, having recruitment of smallies every year, AND having our supervisors out and fishing my pond I can say that they are preaching from the 1957 thought process, that's what they were taught.
Most state personnel have their own gut feelings and have been taught to follow state "beliefs".. I've been lucky enough to spend many nights in groups of these guys/gals during WAE egg-take missions and I've blasted holes in most all of their theories about "you can or can't do that".
One of the best days was when 1 of our region 1 Bio's called me and made the decision to stock a 2.2a community lake with SMB.
Recruitment and growth has been fantastic-another notch in the post for us.
Then, after telling this same biologist for 2 years that the next state record yp would be caught from my pond, he had to swallow his beliefs and come verify the catch last Feb.
There is a "wall" between what they are taught and the private sector, and like Dr.Luke says, politics play a huge role in what they do, bigger than most would ever believe.
Most agencies will also bow their neck at private sector reports, at least that's been my experience, but again, in my case, I get opportunity to have a captive audience frequently and am close enough with some of these guys that I pull no punches.
Another thing I might mention is we work with Iowa during our egg-take to get them some "early hatch", as we obtain eggs from Iowa for a "Late hatch", and these guys are no different in their thought process than my own state guys-and I don't pull any punches with them either, and I can say with certainty that they too are restrained from personal opinion when in a public setting. I have used some of these opportunities to discuss pond management and share experiences of fellow PB'ers here-in other states. They clam up when I go into private sector talk, very evident what they are taught to believe, which is why my respect for Bob Lusk, and what he has achieved is 80000% more clear to me on how Lusk broke a barrier in this industry. He turned the "we don't recommend that" into "By God, I'll show you how it's done"..
For my 2 cents, I would remind the department that they are using data older than the folks implementing it. I suspect I know how far it will go, but ya gotta speak your mind and show them proof.

Perhaps we have someone on this forum from academia who would like another publication on their CV?

I can echo exactly the description of how the MI biologists behave, both in the advice they give based on textbooks that clearly need an update, and how they get very rigid about not wavering from that advice. It is frustrating to know that our state department of natural resources are resistant to the learning process and are not open to new information even if the evidence is pretty strong right in front of them.

Dr. Luke we have waged and lost a similar battle on tilapia in MI. Hopefully if enough pond owners who expect their pond temps to hit 50 or less every winter band together and push at the same time we can make some headway. Even a small trickle through the dirt berm will eventually enlarge and more and more water will pour throgh.

I also feel badly for new MI pond owners who are still told stocking plans that are very heavy on CC and LMB without an adequate forage base.

To be fair, the biologist in MI is about as old as the textbook and I admire the many things he has done and the huge amount of work on his plate (for a pittance of salary I'm sure) so maybe the next generation will change that.

I can better understand the 'resistance' to non-native fish species such as tilapia even with knowledge that they are supposed to expire at 50 degrees F.

But for SMB, which I think are native to most of the states of those who posted (IN, IA, MI, PA, OH, etc.), it's a shame to have that 'knowledge' pushed down a rabbit hole.

Well - I am willing to do as much of the writing as I can, but I need experts to pressure check things for technical correctness and help identify good citations to support claims. I can probably find the state extension bulletins that offer outdated recommendations along with links. I would strongly suggest we do not mention any individuals responsible. We could cite personal communication for coauthors with direct experience supporting the ineffectiveness of contacting university and state "experts" without identifying any of them specifically. I must admit that I find my interactions less than satisfactory which is part of my motivation for getting this into the scientific literature. It seems like such a paper would be a good reference for explaining the conflict between our current experience with SMB in ponds and the advice given by state officials and university extension personnel. I have published a number of papers like this within my area of expertise. Change can come slow, but it will likely be slower without advocacy.

RAH,

Sounds like an excellent plan.

My advice would be to remove your references to the state agency errors or outdated guidance, like in these sentences: "Counter to the outdated official recommendations from some universities and state government agencies, ..."

Your writing is clear and CORRECT. However, you are trying to win over the agency people. In my experience, state agency people do not like to be shown they are wrong. (Of course, almost nobody likes to be shown that they are wrong.)

Change things to a positive note, such as - "... new research has shown very encouraging results ..."

If you post a draft I expect you would get lots of crowd-sourced revisions from the PB experts that might further tighten up your paper!

Good luck on this worthy project!

If I may suggest... If I were tackling this, I would ask the advise of Cody and Ewest, both have written articles in a verbalization that attracts attention and both can tie references to older, less accurate data..
Ok, I added 4 cents..

As someone with a bit of experience in this area, such papers are not directed at the "agency people" but rather on the influencers of the agency people. A 1st step is to try and work with these folks to effect positive change, but when this fails, one must look past them to those that have more influence on their behavior. Its not the first or desirable approach, but rather the remaining option. As many of the posts suggest in this thread, the cooperative approach seems to have been ineffective. One can either give up or take on a more aggressive approach. So far, I am not seeing any takers from fisheries professionals here on my proposal, so if we fail, we can only blame ourselves. It takes effort and tenacity to advance science. If you want to see a recent example in my area of science, then feel free to PM me. Science advocacy is not easy.

I wonder if maybe someone from the Texas agency might be persuaded to talk with the folks in Indiana and/or Michigan. Texas allows tilapia, though they insist on the Mozambique strain which dies at 52F. Maybe the northern state agencies would listen to another state's agency when they won't listen to private pond owners.

How about academics? If you got a co-author after you wrote the bulk of the article, that might be a win-win.

Does getting something published in Pond Boss Magazine give it more weight?

We at the PB Forum lost our VERY BEST researcher, fisheries professional, tenured professor and well published author when we lost Dr. David Willis. He would have been our best senior author for a peer reviewed paper about success of SMB in pond habitats. Dave and I separately and as co-authors had several articles in PB mag about SMB in ponds.

Dave was the co-editor along with Dr Wesley Neal (senior ed) for the Amer Fish. Soc. book titled Small Impoundment Management in North America 2012. The book chapter that relates to our SMB topic was “ Stocking Strategies for Recreational Small Impoundments” Chapter 6 p155-176 by R.A. Wright – Dept. Fisheries & Allied Aquacultures Auburn Univ. and C.E. Kraft -DNR Cornell Univ.

Chapter 6 Section 6.5.2 Smallmouth Bass Combinations has a total of six sentences. Paraphrased - “SMB in mesotrophic ponds can fill role of predator. Prey species mentioned were GSH or RES; BG not controlled. Rates or timing of stocking not well studied. Those managers following guidelines for LMB-BG have been successful.”

IMO a research type of paper would be needed to achieve a successful peer review. For a peer-reviewed paper with high credibility we are going to need a decent amount of good data in the standard scientific format of Introduction, Methods, Results with Discussion including tables, graphs and figures.

Dr Neal at Mississippi State still regularly writes a regular article in PBoss Mag. One good option would for interested PBoss members for this topic would be to help fund, in combination with the Jesse W. West Research Endowment at South Dakota State Univ., a student research project. ewest (Eric West) would know more about details of the Jessie West student endowment. Dr Neal may provide some good advice for the SMB topic.

Bill notified me of this thread . I have not read the whole thread string but will . This is my first reply. SMB will definitely reproduce in ponds. IMO all sunfish will with varying degrees of success. Dave Willis , Bretksi , Theo , TJ, have all successfully done so and a lot of others. Sunil also had reproducing SMB in his mixed pond. I believe Dwight also. The folks at SEP also had SMB reproducing in multiple ponds with TFS , CRAPPIE AND FH. More later.

They don't "need" those specialized spawning structures. they can pull off yearly successful hatches if they have 3' dia areas of pea gravel to spawn on. A customer has that in his ponds with SMB and every year they pull off a successful spawn. BUT if you put that specialized spawning structure in the pond, they more dominant fish will abandon the pea gravel areas for that spawning structure.

I get funny looks when I tell people around here that I'm going to stock SMB. My uncle that lives down this way asked me about it & after I explained to him what I'd read on here, he's very much looking forward to some pond fishing in the coming years.

Same around here with YP, though I'll grant them some level of skepticism with YP since they're not native to anywhere near this part of the state.

I reworded the draft (see below) to reflect the correction from esshop that SMB do not "need" specialized spawning structure. In response to Bill's concern with having a "decent amount of data" for a research article, I agree, but in my field, there are journals that accept short communications and opinion pieces which can simply cite previously published papers, book chapters, and even personal communication. An opinion piece like the one that I am suggesting (and which I have experience with) can point out the lack of data supporting the assertion that SMB do not thrive in warm ponds devoid of competing predators like LMB and BG. I think a couple illustrations of spawning structures along with rip-rap areas for crayfish might spruce it up a bit; so would some fish pics showing success. Such papers can actually be cited pretty widely. In terms of cost, I started my SMB population in a 1 acre pond with a total of 20 fish (10 per year in 2 consecutive years), and am now at the point where I need to remove fish to prevent stunting. I will write a sentence or two speculating on why the SMB/pond myth likely developed. This text could follow the section on outdated recommendations. Also, thanks to Bill for the references to some existing publications. These would be good citations! That is why we really need an expert as senior author, even if I act as the principle technical writer.

Edited text is as follows:

"Smallmouth bass in small ponds: misunderstood and maligned

Smallmouth bass (Micropterus dolomieu) can thrive and spawn in Midwestern ponds with fairly warm water if the more commonly recommended largemouth bass (Micropterus salmoides) and bluegill sunfish (Lepomis macrochirus) are excluded. Counter to the outdated official recommendations from some universities and government agencies, smallmouth bass do not require cold water, but rather are outcompeted by these more commonly stocked species in small warm-water ponds. Like channel catfish (Ictalurus punctatus)(also commonly recommended for small ponds), smallmouth bass benefit from specialized spawning structures, although smallmouth bass spawn in simple rock or masonry spawning structures, rather than the cavity spawning structures required for channel catfish.

Here we provide examples of outdated recommendations against stocking smallmouth bass in Midwestern ponds, provide updated recommendations for successful use of smallmouth bass in ponds, and document the successful stocking of smallmouth bass in small warm-water ponds."

Added a bit more structure and text to help illustrate my idea:

"Smallmouth bass in small warm-water ponds: misunderstood and maligned

Introduction: Smallmouth bass (Micropterus dolomieu) can thrive and spawn in Midwestern ponds with fairly warm water if the more commonly recommended largemouth bass (Micropterus salmoides) and bluegill sunfish (Lepomis macrochirus) are excluded. Counter to the outdated official recommendations from some universities and government agencies, smallmouth bass do not require cold water, but rather are outcompeted by these more commonly stocked species in small warm-water ponds. Like channel catfish (Ictalurus punctatus)(also commonly recommended for small ponds), smallmouth bass benefit from specialized spawning structures, although smallmouth bass spawn in simple rock or masonry spawning structures, rather than the cavity spawning structures required for channel catfish.

Here we provide examples of outdated recommendations against stocking smallmouth bass in Midwestern ponds, provide updated recommendations for successful use of smallmouth bass in ponds, and document the successful stocking of smallmouth bass in small warm-water ponds.

The myth: The non-viability of establishing a thriving and spawning smallmouth-bass population in Midwestern warm-water ponds is a widespread myth that continues to be perpetuated in the stocking recommendations from respected universities and state agencies dedicated to natural resources (see Box 1 for examples). One can speculate that this myth originated from the well-established failure of smallmouth bass populations to thrive in ponds alongside other commonly stocked pond predators like largemouth bass and bluegill sunfish. In fact largemouth bass outcompete smallmouth bass for food in warm water, and blue gill populations cannot be kept in check by smallmouth predation and soon outstrip the forage that smallmouth bass depend on. This led to the erroneous assumption that smallmouth bass do poorly in small warm-water ponds, likely leading to the common assertion that smallmouth bass are a non-viable stocking option even when competing predator species like largemouth bass and bluegill sunfish are excluded.

Best Practices: --add brief recommendations on establishing a smallmouth bass pond including compatible and incompatible species (and good forage species) with citations to more in-depth publications.

Experience: --briefly recount experiences across states where folks have successfully established sustained smallmouth bass populations in small warm-water ponds.

Time to update university and government agency recommendations: --add text"

I explain why the myth of SMB in ponds and warm water was created in Part 1 of 5 for my SMB article series in PB magazine. If we are going to write an authoritative article that is believable and the information is to be trusted we should have a good literature reference list citing appropriate SMB literature.

A portion of Part 1 “Growing the Best Smallies” Is copied here:

Busting The Myth
Most all common literature says smallies are typically found and thought to do best in continually cool, deep, rocky northern or midwestern lakes or cool water streams. Another reference says smallies prefer clear, rocky lakes with a minimum of 25-30 feet deep and water temperatures no more than 80 degrees F. Nahh! That's a myth.

Smallmouth bass actually are native to the northern parts of North America that have areas of cooler water with basins lined with boulders, rocks and various sizes of gravel. Smallmouth bass also grow and thrive in many streams of various sizes. Smallies have also been stocked by agencies and citizens in many states of the United States. Water temperatures of some of the mid-western and southern slow, moving streams where smallies thrive are regularly in the mid to high 80 degree F and sometimes even 90 degrees during dog days of summer.

Why the myth?
A classic early study of northern lakes with native smallies concluded these bass prefer to stay in cooler water along deeper rocky ledges. In reality, smallies were forced to compete with other more dominate predators, largemouth bass, who staked their claim to prime shallower habitat spots. Thus, the traditional "preferred habitat areas" of deep, cooler water often reported in early literature were probably the second habitat of choice (out of necessity) for smallies due to competition from largemouth and walleye (Ripley and Sura 1999). In those cases, smallies probably had to inhabit other spots or areas due to bullying from other, more aggressive fish, such as largemouth bass. In the early studies, competitors likely forced smallmouth out of warmer, food-rich shallow areas and to survive, they had to take up residence in cooler deeper locations, places less preferred by largemouth bass. Researchers of those early studies (Dendy 1948, Norris Lake, TN), thus concluded the colder, deeper spots where smallmouth were most commonly found were preferred habitats.

Truth is, smallmouth often are found in cool water, but function quite well in warm, shallow, weedy water when other predator sparse or not present. In scientific literature, laboratory studies have shown smallmouth bass will survive in summer water temperatures of 90-92 F. So, if your pond is not located in the southernmost areas of the United States and water temperatures do not stay above 95 F for weeks at a time, smallies will likely do just fine in your pond or lake.

Contrary to popular belief, smallies do not need extensive rocky, cool water habitats to thrive. They will grow well and reproduce in ponds where largemouth flourish. Personally, I have raised thriving numbers of smallmouth bass up to 20" long that successfully reproduced annually and grew well in a small, seven-foot-deep, clay-bottomed pond where water temperatures in mid-summer frequently reached low 90s. In my region of northwest Ohio, smallmouth do quite well year after year in numerous small ponds where there are no largemouth bass.


Growing smallies is not always just a matter of adding them to your pond. Pond Boss editor and fisheries biologist, Bob Lusk, as an experiment, stocked smallies in one of his small North Texas ponds. The smallmouth went into the 3/4 acre pond, stocked at the same time with walleye, just for fun. Lusk stocked 12, 6-8 inch smallmouth with 13 similar size walleye. The pond was freshly filled with well water and fish were stocked in November, 2003 along with fingerling bluegill sunfish. The next spring, Lusk added some extra channel catfish he had and began to feed the fish with an automatic feeder. A seine survey in November, 2004 showed both smallmouth and walleye survived a relatively "cool" Texas summer. But, since then, not one smallmouth or walleye has been seen. But, the channel cat are thriving and largemouth bass infiltrated from ponds upstream during a minor flood event. However, results and survival of smallmouth and walleye were poor. I am not sure why they did not survive, but I don't think it was due to high water temperatures.

In Phoenix, Arizona, a member of the Pond Boss Forum and avid Pond Boss subscriber, Aaron Matos, has smallies growing and reproducing in a small 0.17 acre, shallow pond in his backyard. It's not just any pond, though. He has a wetland filtration system and the plastic-lined pond is loaded with rocks and boulders strategically placed along shelves and ridges. Great habitat, but even with all the "perfect" habitat, water temperatures of this pond were measured to be 92 to 95 F when air temperatures are frequently 100 F or more. Phoenix has an average 21 days a year where air temps reach 110 F. His water is often more like bath water than smallmouth bass water. Yet they thrive.

As an in-between species in a mixed community of fish, smallies will function the best they can and will inhabit areas not already occupied by more dominant fish. A couple of studies have shown smallies do not compete well with bluegills, green sunfish or bullheads. In these situations, the bigger the pond and the more diverse the structures, then the more areas will be available for smallies to hang out and survive. When largemouth are present, the largemouths will dominate and bully smallies into locating to other less desirable areas of the pond. Dr. Dave Willis, fisheries biologist from South Dakota, and numerous others including this author have found that when combined with largemouth, the smallie population always gradually declines without regular supplemental stocking of large juveniles or adults.

By themselves as the dominant predator in the pond, smallies will occupy the same type of shallow habitat and locations preferred by largemouth and some other panfish. Thus, many ponds able to grow largemouth will grow smallies, especially if competition with other, more aggressive fish is low.

Smallmouth bass have been reported to have much less inclination to school than largemouth (Mraz 1964d). However, I (and others) have watched juvenile smallmouth in small ponds hunt in packs of 5-10 fish as they crowd and attack small forage fish herded by the bass into shallow water. Many good bass anglers know that numerous smallies can be caught from one small area. In winter, smallies will congregate in schools in deeper water areas.

Myth Circle
Temperature myths about smallies requiring clear, cool, rocky bottom habitats have been prolonged by combined writings of outdoor writers and authors of fishery journals (Ripley and Sura 1999). Early fishing and semi-pro fishery writers referred only to basic early research in their articles. Wildlife and Natural Resource agencies often repeated the temperature myths found in fishery-related books and magazines.

Even today, angling writers, who have not carefully reviewed detailed scientific literature regarding temperature tolerances of smallmouth bass are still referencing the old mythical literature. Thus, the circle of errors about temperature myths for smallies are still commonly repeated. So, what has been written up to now in many articles may not tell the whole story about this fascinating fish.

Could use help with identifying links to other examples where state agencies or universities provide outdated advice on stocking SMB:

State Organization Publication title Web link Quote

Indiana Purdue University Indiana Pond Fish https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/FNR/FNR-584.pdf Smallmouth Bass prefer larger lakes, rivers and creeks and do not do well in ponds.

Indiana Indiana Department of Natural Resources: Indiana Division of Fish & Wildlife Indiana Fish Pond Management https://www.in.gov/dnr/fish-and-wildlife/files/fishmgt.pdf Other combinations involving smallmouth bass, walleye and northern pike can be used if the pond owner is willing to pay for periodic and expensive restocking.

Ohio The Ohio State University Fish Species Selection for Pond Stocking https://woodlandstewards.osu.edu/sites/woodlands/files/imce/0010_0.pdf While smallmouth bass stocked in ponds may survive and provide the occasional novelty catch, they often grow slowly and do not reproduce.

Michigan Michigan State University Managing Michigan Ponds for Sport Fishing https://www.oakgov.com/msu/programming/Documents/e1554_ponds_sportfishing.pdf The smallmouth bass, another member of the sunfish family, is suitable for ponds that have clean gravel beds for spawning and somewhat cooler water than is best for largemouth bass.

Hawaii, what a great place to fish Smallmouth bass yes also in Hawaii.
https://www.facebook.com/lunkervill...-fishing-with-mr-white/1326439550868699/
A+

I'd like to concentrate on the native range of SMB. Ponds in such areas could be a reservoir for seeding streams in their drainage where SMB are doing poorly due to pollution.

RAH, after 5 days of digging and making phone calls to KDWP personnel, I finally got an explanation that KS is of the "OPINION" that SMB are not recommended for pond stocking because until the last 10 years, there is no research data or decent studies available that bust the myth as Bill talks about above.
The supervisor I last talked with says "we know this isn't the case, as it's been proven in general, if LMB will survive and prosper, so will SMB so we hold no official position in offering recommendations against SMB stocking"...

So their position against SMB stocking is unofficial?

I posted links and quotes of some of the government and university recommendations in a previous post in this thread. I also contacted both the university and government organization that I provided links to in Indiana and they both consider my SMB pond an outlier, and therefore do not think offering this as an option to new pond owners is worthwhile.

To take Scott’s point further, based on my personal experience SMB don’t require any special structure/substrate for successful spawning/recruitment. I have three ponds devoid of structure of any kind and have pulled successive spawns the past 3 seasons and now face a SMB population management issue. I strongly suspect appropriate rock substrate would improve egg hatching numbers significantly, however it’s not necessary.

I changed the text of my draft to reflect that SMB benefit from structure but do not necessarily need it.

Neighbor caught another nice one out of of out SMB pond today (>18in).

Beautiful fish RAH.

Thats def a nice one RAH!

You are a good neighbor, RAH! I'm a little scared to let people fish my place when I'm not there, mostly due to potential liability. Looks like that gentleman really enjoyed the experience!

Nice SMB!!!

Is there maybe something wrong with the fish's eye?

Hook came close to the eye, but fish seemed OK.

This fellow is extremely responsible, and I trust him.

Smart, responsible people that would like the privilege to also be allowed to fish again in the future - just the kind of people you want to invite onto the property.

Neighbors like that are probably also your best defense against a$$hole trespassers!

We are really willing to share if folks just ask nicely and show some respect for the land. Hate cleaning up trash.

We live so far in the boonies that you can’t get anyone to come fish…..I need to rid of a BUNCH of Bg and catfish

I get the catfish removal, but BG too?

And my biggest disappointment has been the reluctance of family to come out to our place. Not just to fish, but to enjoy nature. I was blessed with the outdoors as a kid (though I suspect Mom was glad to see us disappear for hours at a time), but things have changed. Sigh.

Feeling lucky that my neighbor harvests 60 BG from my pond each year. He thinks he is lucky and so do I. Good luck finding a similar neighbor!

Folks keep asking me when SMB spawn in ponds in central Indiana. Any knowledge greatly appreciated.

I have a male SMB guarding a nest under the dock now May 11. A few other coarse rocky areas have been cleaned for nest sites. I will try to get a water temp tomorrow. The books say spawning begins when water temps stabilize at 60.0F.

Bill, I spent a couple of hours watching a male oriented vertically, moving debris as he was creating a nesting area a few days ago-never seen this before. 2 different females were working him while he was working.. he would occasionally just bump the female near the head if she got too close, just a tap and she would move away.
I spent an hour and a half too long watching that but a flat spot turned into a fairly large dish in that 2 hrs..

Would it help the SMB if the humans helped make the dish? (I was thinking a brief squirt with the water nozzle on bottom.)

Or, does the male "doing the work" to make the dish, indicate to the females that he is worthy, and he therefore attracts a breeding mate?

Mother nature builds a pride factor into fish-I believe-and the choice of males by a female may be for something just like your last comment Rod.. What self-respecting chick wants to move in with a known freeloader? Just my 2 cents.

SMB spawn at the same time/temp that LMB spawn.

esshup - I think Spawning times for SMB & LMB can overlap somewhat but most good Fisheries textbooks note the spawning for SMB begins a few degrees cooler compared to LMB. Look it up on something other than the internet where opinions prevail and facts are often lacking.

LMB here spawn when the lilacs are blooming, which is right around the full moon in May. A customer that has SMB in his pond saw males on beds 2 days ago and he's roughly 25 miles South and 50 miles West of here. I need to check a customers ponds 12 miles S of here, I know where the pea gravel is in the ponds and the SMB typically use that when the water level doesn't allow them to use the SMB spawning beds that I installed in the ponds. That's why I said they spawn the same time as the LMB.

I saw one place that says SMB spawn about 10 days earlier than LMB which for me is around the same time, but more precision is always good. First lilac bloom is also an indicator that morel mushrooms are starting to pop in my area.

I had the fish kill in my RES/SMB pond last year and I see zero activity in that pond. Have been doing some hand feeding and other ponds are active but get hardly anything making a swirl in that pond. I was hoping at least some of the small SMB had survived but now I am wondering. Have not tried fishing it with a small lure. I used to catch the juvenile SMB that way all the time, from 4" to 6" long fish right along the bank.

The good news is I had caught and transferred many SMB out of that pond to the other ponds. So I still have adult populations there. Hopefully I can catch a few of those, put them back in the RES/SMB pond and get reproduction going again. I had SMB recruitment every single year since the original stocking in that pond. At fish kill time I counted 50 dead fish. By the time I found them they were degrading but I could tell most of them were the same size SMB and HSB and quite a few large RES. I did not see many small fish dead so was hopeful the juvenal SMB and RES survived. We will see.

I'm one Kansas pond owner where the SMB did fine in a Kansas pond. That is until the combination of a drought and low water level along with stocking numerous HSB and over populating the pond the previous year. My mistake.

John, big bummer on your SMB/RES pond. I was hoping that was going to be a great fishery for the grandkids in a few years!

Do you still have FHM in your forage pond? If so, then I would definitely dump as many as I could catch into the SMB/RES pond. That way, if you did have a 100% fish kill, then the few SMB that you can catch and move over would find themselves in paradise.

Is it easy for you to catch some gams in the pools of your creek? If so, then adding some gams to the SMB/RES pond could also jump start your forage base.

(If adding creek gams, I would only add the large ones. They are quite easy to identify by sight and make sure no GSF get added from the creek! Personally, I suck at identifying tiny fish.)

I have a 1.8 acre pond on I40, 60 miles from Texas panhandle, trying to manage as a pay to fish.
Yesterday had 20 middle school students, most had never fished, I and their "Outdoor ed" teacher stayed busy teaching
property respect and bait fishing. They caught ???150-250??? RBT, YP, SMB, BG, GSF.
several 5-8" SMB, recruitment, 20-30 YP possible recruitment. Even in far SW Oklahoma.
In this day, it's how the next gen is going to learn respect.
Thank You very much, for all I've learned about ponds and fish, this last year on PB !!!

I went through Clinton a couple of weeks ago. Had never been there but wife and I, both retired, often leave Fort Worth and head somewhere else. We thought that we would go see Muleshoe where I was raised but go by a different route.

Stop by next time, would appreciate your thoughts, God's blessings in your travels.