I put 50- 2" warmouth in my new 1/4 acre pond the end of May. They are now 3.5-4" long and growing well. I have noticed a few very small recruits 3/4" ish. Too small to get an id yet, i can not tell if they are warmouth, bluegill, or some other variation. I have pictures of the adults, not of the recruits yet. Is it even possible that they could be warmouth yet?

I'm just guessing, but as warmouth don't get a lot bigger than 4", say 8", maybe you could have pulled off a spawn.

Again, totally guessing.

IME BG that size are already showing a (small) dark opercule.

Dave - Just a nosey question. Why stock some warmouth in the pond instead of rock bass that grow larger than warmouth? MI angler records = warmouth 11" 1.3lb, rock bass 20" 3.6lb.
An in-depth study of warmouth in IL indicates warmouth can be mature at 3 inches long often by the end of their 1st year.

Dave's early member introduction post. Background.
https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=41910&Number=545788#Post545788

I suppose that is a good question. I am focusing on species that are very hardy, can handle low DO, high dissolved solids. The idea is to use a basic farm pond as sort of a nursery from which i can harvest fingerlings/advanced fingerlings for my experiments with closed system biofloc grow out. I have grown tiliapia, shrimp, and crawfish but want to focus on local species that can over winter naturally here. I am also going to be growing brown bullhead. Basically if everyone else is trying to get rid of it. Lol. I was unsuccesful with channel catfish with biofloc, but it is common overseas with some of their catfish so hoping the Warmouth and Brown bullhead will work here. Unsure how it will all work out, haven't found much info on temperate biofloc. Indoor production is very controlled but trying to keep 90 degrees 365 per year is not practical for homestead sized production.

Can warmouth be reliably differentiated from green sunfish based on the dark lines that radiate back from the eyes? I may have these in one of my duck ponds and just wondered if they might be fun in my 4th pond. Are rock bass better and available from hatcheries that supply Indiana?

I don't know of anyone on this forum who has ever put rock bass in their pond. Likewise never seen a fish farm offer them for sale or a fish truck tote them around. I imagine you could catch locally and add to your pond. I really don't know how they would do in a pond or how they would interact or reproduce.

I DO know that they are a very polarizing fish. Everyone I know who catches one while fishing in a public body of water is either quite happy with the catch or quite disappointed. When I grew up the relative who took me fishing thought they were fine table fare, easy to filet, and worth taking home. I remember fish fries predominantly of rock bass and I didn't notice anything adverse about the event. To me they were fun to catch and were always a bit larger than the other panfish in the same area.

But I have fished with a few others who would catch one and would then unload a host of critically and sometimes harsh statements about their appearance, about their ugly and red bloodshot 'google eyes', about their disdainful heritage and their muddy flavored flesh. They couldn't seem to get them back in the water fast enough.

To me, if i had a source for them and wanted to experiment with them in my northern pond I would have no problem trying a few out. I know they will be hardy, won't be as likely to winter kill, and probably have a mouth structure and eating habit similar to a green sunfish. I have never heard of them nipping swimmers. I have no idea if they would reproduce or not.

I also have never seen a lake with an overpopulation of them, nor have I seen 'stunted' ones so they must have a varied diet and hardy constitution. So give it a try and let us know?

Rock bass (RKB) are easy to recognize from green sunfish if one knows what features to look for just as any other sunfish or LM - SM bass. As Canyon mentioned RKB have red eyes that should be a very prominent character even if the two fish had the same body color which they don't. Another very distinct feature is the rock bass has 6 anal fin spines and GSF have 3 anal fin spines. In my experience RKB tend to thrive better in clearer water compared to cloudy 2ft visibility water. They are often associated as a stream fish. In lakes, with Rock bass I always caught them more often in rocky shoreline areas compared to angling in or near weed beds. However Fishes of Mississippi say RKB are strongly associated with woody structure and weeds and rarely in rocky areas. They are not real prolific and nests were found to contain 450-1800 eggs.

Similarities to GSF is both fish species have large mouths similar to YP which indicates to me both species will eat larger sized small fish. For a pond fish, if I had to choose between warmouth and rock bass I would always choose rock bass mainly because RB the grow bigger.

Some midwest state record sizes:
IN = WM 1lb4oz; RKB 3 lb
OH = WM1lb 5oz; RKB 2.0lb
WI = WM 1lb1oz; RKB 2lb 1oz
MI = WM 1lb 3oz RKB 3lb 6oz
PA = WM none; RKB 3lb 2oz
KY = WM 1lb 6oz; RKB 1lb 1oz
TN = WM 1lb 12oz; RKB 2lb 8oz

I have some large-mouthed sunfish in one of my shallow duck ponds but want to be sure that they are warmouth and not green sunfish, thus my question about dark lines radiating behind the eyes as a distinguishing feature of warmouth.

Cody Note - RAH - green sunfish even 2" long will always have at least one or a few turquoise radiating lines from the eye back across the gill plate. Look closely size of streak varies. I think the large mouth sunfish in your duck pond are 98% likely to be green sunfish. Look at their gill covers and you should see emerald, blue green streaks backward behind the eyes especially on those 3"+ = GSF.
Examples of emerald streaks on gill plate of GSF
http://txstate.fishesoftexas.org/lepomis%20cyanellus.htm
https://www.outdooralabama.com/bream/green-sunfish

Thought I would put this lepomis traits here and its in the sunfish archive. From Wisc Fish an outstanding site with great work. It has pics of the traits and pics of some crosses.

New -- go to BG and scroll down
https://www.seagrant.wisc.edu/fish-id/#fishMain


old
http://www.seagrant.wisc.edu/home/Default.aspx?tabid=605&FishID=21




Compare Similar Species


Lateral Scales

Bass, Rock 39-43
Bluegill 39-45
Pumpkinseed 38-43
Sunfish, Green 44-51
Sunfish, Longear 34-38
Sunfish, Orangespotted 36-41
Warmouth 36-40

Opercular Flap Color

Bass, Rock Solid dark
Bluegill Solid dark
Pumpkinseed Dark with light spot at tip
Sunfish, Green Dark with light margin
Sunfish, Longear Dark with light margin
Sunfish, Orangespotted Dark with light margin
Warmouth Dark with light margin

Gill Rakers

Bass, Rock 7-10, long and thin
Bluegill 13-16, moderately long
Pumpkinseed 9-12, short and thick
Sunfish, Green 11-14, long and thin
Sunfish, Longear 9-11, short and thick
Sunfish, Orangespotted 10-15, long and thin
Warmouth 9-12, moderately long

Pectoral Fin

Bass, Rock Short, rounded
Bluegill Long, pointed
Pumpkinseed Long, pointed
Sunfish, Green Moderately long, rounded
Sunfish, Longear Short, rounded or blunt point
Sunfish, Orangespotted Long, rounded or blunt point
Warmouth Moderately long, rounded

Pigment Pattern on Sides and Soft Dorsal Fin

Bass, Rock Sides brown solid color or with dark mottling or many indistinct spots; fin mottled and/or spotted
Bluegill Sides dark or silver blue or bluish-olive, solid color or with dark vertical bars, sometimes fine irregular dark blue spots; fin solid, often with large diffuse spot at base
Pumpkinseed Sides olive or yellow-olive, with many irregular yellow-orange spots or blotches and sometimes faint vertical bars; fin solid or faint spots/mottling
Sunfish, Green Sides yellow or blue-green, with solid color, dark mottling, faint light spots or faint dark bars; fin dusky, spotted or with dark blotch at base
Sunfish, Longear Sides dark bluish-olive, with solid color or light irregular spots or blotches/mottling; fin solid or faint spots/mottling
Sunfish, Orangespotted Sides blue or gray, with occasional irregular orange spots, faint diffuse vertical bars; fin solid or faint spots/mottling
Warmouth Sides yellow-brown or olive with dark mottling, faint spots or faint bars; fin mottled and/or spotted

Other Characteristics

Bass, Rock 5-7 anal spines; 9-11 anal rays
Bluegill Opercular flap slightly elongated in large adults
Pumpkinseed None
Sunfish, Green Rarely a few teeth on tongue
Sunfish, Longear Opercular flap greatly elongated in adults
Sunfish, Orangespotted Opercular flap often elongated in adults; large sensory pores above lip; 8-9 anal fin rays
Warmouth Well-developed supramaxillary bone; teeth on tongue

Similarity Index

Bass, Rock Moderately similar
Bluegill N/A
Pumpkinseed Small juveniles very similar, adults moderately similar
Sunfish, Green Small juveniles very similar, adults moderately similar
Sunfish, Longear Small juveniles very similar, adults moderately similar
Sunfish, Orangespotted Small juveniles very similar, adults moderately similar
Warmouth Small juveniles very similar, adults moderately similar


This may help - lepomis id chart

For my planned purpose the Warmouth seems to be the hardiest panfish I could find. We will see how it all works out.

Seems like a red iris is distinctive for warmouth compared with green sunfish?

Your experience is valuable DaveS, stick with your plan and then come back and share your experience and especially your pictures! We would love to see your warmouth grow and have a photo chronicle of it.
There are fish farms in MI that are looking for other panfish options to grow, stock and sell. Folks like you will help break the BG/LMB/Catfish mantra that leads so many pondowners in small northern ponds astray.

Keep us posted!

ewest,

That sounded like a good resource, so I clicked on your link.

It was broken for me.

(But my computer and I frequently joust against each other. )

Ewest The link to SeaGrant for sunfish information does not work. Here is the result of the link.
Oops! That page can’t be found.
It’s not you, it’s us.
We’ve relaunched our website.


If you relocate the information please provide the new link to the information. Thanks.

OK fixed the link - see first one but left old one for reference.

Can't see any red in the eyes of the warmouth pictured at that link?

Was finially able to catch some fry for pics. Pretty sure these are warmouth yoy, which is crazy considering the ones I stocked were not much bigger in May. It is hard to tell but the mouth gap seems too large for bluegill. There is zero chance any warmouth found there way in before, and very very miniscule chance bluegill are in there.

The mouth gape is way too large for a bluegill. You might have had reproduction already.

DaveS - Yes agree with esshup. The mouth on those small fingerlings is way too big for BG and HBG. They are not green sunfish. That 3rd picture is a great picture you produced. 99.9% assurance those are warmouth from your stocked fish. Evidently warmouth can spawn at pretty small sizes. Do you have any measurements of the one you initially stocked??

I'm pretty excited, I was hopeful for some reproduction by next year. If they are this prolific in my pond I better get working on my growout system for next year.

The ones that I caught were 3.5-4 inches. There may be larger ones in there, they were caught in a crawfish/minnow trap and that is about as big as can fit through the opening.