Looking for opinions, recommendations, etc. Just finished my first pond it is 1/4 acre 12’ deep, water table pond, in northern Michigan near Traverse city. My two objectives with it is to raise food and have somewhere for the kids to fish. Based on my testing of the test hole it will be rather cool low 60s in summer, but that may change now that it is bigger. I have done indoor culture of warm water species before including tilapia and shrimp. I would like to establish a couple breeding species in the pond that compliment each other, provide fingerlings for intensive cage or raceway culture and not eat rainbow trout fingerlings that will be stocked and harvested. Ultimately I will be the apex predator to cull the excess, but would like to have the fish gaining from each other as well. So far I have been thinking about the following combination.

Crayfish
Some sort of minnow probably FHM
Perch
Warmouth
Annually stocked RBT

Will be aerated and fed

My thought is that large warmouth will hopefully eat up to 4-5” perch but hopefully not 7-8” RBT. Warmouth are supposed to be more hearty than bluegill which would be necessary for my intensive biofloc experimenting. I am open to other species as well, even ones that are not traditional marketed. Chubs, etc.

I do have a few specific questions about warmouth.

1)Do they taste more like a bluegill or more like a bass?

2)Can they be stocked at the same rate as blue gill or do they need more room?

3) If I took 4-5” warmouth in the spring and feed them heavy in a cage is it reasonably to think they would be harvestable by fall?

Thanks for your time and thoughts.
Dave

It sounds like you have an interesting project.

I am guessing at this, but I think warmouth maybe somewhat in between a bluegill and a bass, texture wise. The warmouth may be a bit more 'mushy' than the bluegill as far as 'firmness' of the meat. I think the warmouth may be more similar in texture to green sunfish and rock bass.

This link was interesting: https://panfishnation.com/warmouth-vs-rock-bass/

My guess is that a warmouth may not be able to eat anything greater than 3", maybe 4", on a regular basis, but certainly if you had warmouth growing to full potential, maybe they could eat 4-5" Yellow Perch.

What's the warmouth's goal or purpose in the pond? Is if for human consumption or forage for the other fish?

That link suggests that warmouth can grow from 4" to 12" and maybe reach 2lbs. I've never seen that, but if they got 10-12", then they could certainly be eating 4-5" Yellow Perch.

The warm mouth would be for eating and catching. I am hoping to stock a few different species that will naturally provide fingerlings. With my past indoor warm water projects the hatchery/ nursery part was very costly, frustrating, unforgiving,etc. I really enjoyed it, and will probably do it again someday but for now want Mother Nature to do that part for me. I envision either trapping or netting the pond in the spring and maybe fall to provide fingerlings and cull.

Hi DaveS
Welcome from another Michigan pond owner and avid learner from the forum. I'm thinking others are better able to answer your questions about using your pond for food production as the goals are different. Just like when people manage a pond for maximum clarity for swimming vs maximum fertility for supporting the food chain there are very different strategies.

A few opinions I'll share:

1. I don't think a warmouth can catch a healthy YP. Maybe a baby one but past 3-4" those things can move like a bullet. I suspect the YP will grow freely beyond 3-4" but that is in my opinion what you want since the YP are the best eating fish out there and you want them to survive and grow. YP also are easy to control in their numbers by angling and eating vs letting the females grow and reproduce. You also can alter reproduction by removing their eggs in late March or leaving them in depending on your goals.

2. Do you have a good source for pure strain warmouth? I've never seen them available at fish farms

3. Crayfish are great, careful to exclude rusty crayfish if possible. Crayfish will need some refuge (rip rap or other structures) or YP will eat the ones they can fit in their mouth. Larger crayfish will multiple greatly taking out your underwater plants and then muddying the water unless you have large aggressive predator like SMB or LMB to keep numbers down, or unless you take AWAY the crayfish habitat or places they can hide.

4. If you can find common shiners, emerald shiners or spotfin shiners, stock those. They reproduce and can withstand quite a bit of predation. FHM tend to feed in the first round of fish but disappear and have to be added again year by year.

5. Will you aerate?

6. How are you determining the water in your groundwater pond will stay cool in the summer? Do you have natural springs or a source of creek water replacing the ground water? Most of us struggle with water temps climbing in the dog days of summer even in a ground water pond with some replacement of ground water at the bottom of the pond.

Yes plan on aerating and feeding. Water temps were measured from a small test pond before the larger one was dug. I thought I had springs based on the test hole, however the area is basically a large thick clay slab with sand on top, so the water sort of flows through the property in the sand. I will have to see how my temps do this summer because only the upper 2-3 ft of water is the sand and the center is dug into the clay. Still have good flow of water in and out but I am thinking it might behave differently this summer. Have not found too many places to get warmouth, still looking.

If you consider what fish may be available from various hatcheries, and then also apply any budget concerns, it may really help define what you can do against your goals.

Bucket stocking is an option, but seldom does it get you the quantities that you might need to make your goals to eat fish. For example, warmouth may not really be available in any quantity from a hatchery, however, you may be able to acquire a few from some kind of entity raising them as a hobby. Otherwise, you have to have a place where you can catch quite a few warmouth while being certain that what you are catching are really that species.

Staying on the warmouth for a bit more, if you could catch a few, and leave them in the pond alone for a season, you may be able to create a robust population of them, so the question of your time frame to get to your goal is part of this option.

Because you are going to feed, it greatly increases what fish you can have for eating.

Commonly available fish from a hatchery:
1) LMB
2) SMB
3) Channel Catfish
4) Yellow Perch
5) Bluegill
6) Hybrid Striped Bass
7) Tilapia
8) Various Trout

Less commonly available fish from a hatchery:
8) TIger Muskie/Muskie
9) Walleye
10) Northern Pike
11) Redear Sunfish
12) Blue Catfish
13) Paddle Fish

(If I've forgotten any, let me know and I'll add them)

Hybrid Striped Bass don't reproduce, and I'm not sure tiger muskie do either. Walleye would require very specific things to spawn.

If you focus on the first category, it may be easier to execute a plan.

Tiger Musky don't reproduce at all. Neither do trout in ponds under normal conditions.

Dave,

You didn't mention the size of fish you wanted to harvest. In food fish production, the goal is to produce harvestable fish in a growing cycle. Usually this requires a separate stage which goal is to produce stage 1 fingerlings. So in your case you plan to acquire stage 1 trout fingerlings. Given your summertime temps, this could give you an extended growing season and perhaps summer survival of your trout.

I would just mention, for food fish production, summer survival of you trout is not essential. You could to stock in Fall after temps cool down and then harvest in late spring/ early summer before they succumb to water quality. We have member that 8-tupled the weight of his stocking of trout under the ice! So he didn't stock as densely as you probably will, but also doesn't feed, so this tells us that trout will grow a very low temperatures if food is abundant. You could add to whatever natural growth you get after ice out by feeding until harvest time.

When planning to maintain populations beyond a single growing cycle the efficiency of food production goes way down. This is mostly due to the maintenance requirements but where the conditions allow for reproduction, recruitment destroys production. To optimize production, you must harvest over each cycle and try to do a complete harvest. This is true whether the fish could survive all seasons or not (eg trout dying in summer ... TP dying in winter).

Given the summer time temps, I like your trout idea. For forage I like FHM, scuds, and water sowbugs. These will all convert detritus and waste from feeding into food for the trout.

Given the summer time temps, I question whether warm water species like lepomis, CC, and TP would grow well. People further South could combine them with trout however for a remarkably productive two cycles per year two crop system.

Hello.

What my pond brings me in food.

Fish,Crayfish,Frog.
Ducks, Geese.

Watercress, Cattails, Water Lily.
A+

Add (in drought years, at least) deer.