Hello Everyone,

First I would like to say thanks to all of you, you may not know me but I scoured this site for over 2 years getting our pond setup rules and regs - you'all know how to do it.

My experience:

The pond was dug out 2yrs ago and it's the story of 2 sides, the east averages 4-5ft while the west 8-10ft. Clay bottom and very steep entry all around except for a boat ramp style area needed to exit the equipment. There are pallet structures, rock piles and bundles of branches for cover. When roughly half full I took the advice of Mr. Cody and put in FHM, RES and (my decision) GSH. Probably went a little crazy with forage fish (10lbs of each) but only 15 RES then just left it alone the entire first summer. This was easy, lots of property work needed done. That fall it became very apparent the minnows (both types) had been making sweet love so I added 35 4-6in YP and let it be. This spring there was no slow down with the minnows and what few perch came to eat all looked good so I added 12 6-8in HSB, 20 HBG 4-6in and 4 6-8in SMB, nothing too crazy.

Now sitting in October both hybrid varieties are doing very well, the HBG are fat and happy while the dozen HSB have become the dirty dozen - when feeding more than a couple of these fellas are clearly almost 13-14in. The SMB stay on the 5ft deep water and just cruise, they too seem to be doing fine. We have yet to "fish" the pond, maybe a couple casts right before feeding but the goal is a good start.

My thought was this year in a month or so adding 20 RBT for winter fishing, I find hard to believe they would upset the current balance, and then next year in spring another 4-6 SMB early spring followed by 20 Tilapia for FA control when available in June. More or less the RBT die off replaced by the Tilapia. Seems like it would work and spring 2022 should contain both SMB and YP spawn if the current bunch somehow cleans up the minnow population.

Thoughts appreciated.

Nicely done!

Thanks CityDad, I'm trying the slow approach. We were lucky and the Lilly's (2) poked up and got going in late summer plus just random (possibly pain in the rear) water plants just "arrived". No ill will to those who go with the hatchery packages - I certainly was tempted - luckily having land to clear and putting in new plumbing plus work stopped me in my tracks.

If anyone has a reason not to toss in 20 or so RBT, beef them up and fish them out for the table please let me know. I think they could survive off water beetles alone at this point until the freeze. Or if you have any ideas at all I'm all ears.

I appreciate all the wisdom, as Ben Franklin said "Wise men don't need advice, fools don't take it".

I don't think 20 RBT especially if they are fed some pellets will upset or damage the current fish community balance. Expect some of the other fish to also eat pellets which will better allow them to have plenty of fat for winter survival and be healthy for spring spawn.

Delaying fishing in a new pond will be a noticeable benefit because when you do start fishing anglers will very easily catch numerous big fish compared noticeably fewer hook smart bigger fish from overfishing a new small pond low fish stocked population.

Tilapia will work well for algae and delicate submerged weed control. If they do not appear to do much algae control then you did not stock enough of them. Tilapia stocked at 5"-8" will provide good, fun fishing in early fall as long as water temperature is still above 70F. Fish the beach where they have been spawning. The more water drops below 70F tilapia become harder and harder to catch. Tilapia fight harder than BG-HBG. A customer told me today he has been catching his tilapia on canned corn, softened pellets and homemade dough balls laced with ground fish pellet . Tilapia become hook shy quickly during each catching session so one has to keep changing styles of bait for each angler session. Chumming tilapia with pellets helps keep the bite active.

Again, thanks for all your help, Bill. I've been feeding Aquamax Sport mixed with Aquamax Bluegill so far, the HSB & HBG will eat anything - I think wood chips would work - but the perch took quite a while to realize what was happening. Only in the last couple months have they been coming up in larger numbers to eat. All of which look healthy although I will say the shiners are getting a little porky as well but hopefully that leads to more naturally and less out of pocket. The SMB (there's only 4 in there) seem to have figured out their own methods which is not surprising.

You have the plan exact with RBT & Tilapia, they serve a purpose (table fare and FA control is a bonus regarding the tilapia). You answered an email of mine a couple years ago prior to shovels in the ground and I have followed it as best I can.

Anyone interested in this slow grow say the word, I will update and take pictures when I get the chance to actually fish (more than likely bait hooks for grandkids but that's never a bad thing either).

Cheers & Beers!

I should also add, I only feed every other week because I'm simply not here to do so otherwise. I'd like to say they miss me because they all come up to feed but in reality I'm fairly certain they're doing just fine without me. None of them will hit a lure, I haven't tried often and doubt they know my face but if it's not pellets out of a mason jar "no thanks, pal, we got plenty" seems to be the way of things.

Just put in 22 gorgeous RBT along with another 10 YP in the 8in range plus 1000 fatheads from Fenders. Great people there, sort of a snake of a drive to find but they know their stuff. Only one day in but the trout might be the happiest fish ever, water beetles - not so much. I hope you are all well.

How big were the trout from Fenders? It will be interesting to see their growth without daily pellet feeding until July.

Right at 1/2-3/4lb, absolutely gorgeous fish Bill. She mentioned they were 5th generation out of PA where "they always get the best trout". Having not bought them before I cannot attest to that claim but they are beauties.

I sent you a picture, Bill, couldn't really figure out attaching - maybe it worked, maybe.

$5.50 a per fish which is the best I could find in the area.

Those are nice looking trout. Fenders usually has very nice trout in the fall. With good pellet feeding and some open water from close to shore aeration all winter some could be 24" long by June. Fun fishing for sure.

I'll keep you updated, with every-other week feeding and the abundance of minnows they shouldn't be lacking a meal (24" would be fantastic). Thanks to all for the wealth of knowledge.

For hatchery raised trout who could be lazy predators, they may not grow as fast as trout that are regularly fed pellets. Keep us informed about how they are doing this spring and early summer. If they grow to 20", I would consider that a success. Your experiences with them will be educational for all of us.

I certainly will. I got back out today and everything was taking pellets like crazy (minus the smallmouth - they seem to have their own plan). Nothing floating so it all seems positive.

I hope everyone had a Happy Halloween.

Those rainbows should take pellets clear up to ice cover. If you could keep some open water with aeration near shore the trout would feed in the open water on pellets all winter.

I have my winter diffuser for the aeration system in front of the Texas Hunter feeder.....

That's the plan, feed until ice and keep it clear. I have a 18in lip above the overflow so the real harsh winds never got to the water last year, maybe 3 weeks of ice (none of which I would walk on and I'm not a large person). This whole week the trout have been by far the most active feeders along with the HSF & Wipers. Very happy with Fenders, really pretty fish.

Thanks to everyone, I'll update and add pics when we get a chance to fish!

Curious question, the water has been very clear to about 6ft these past couple days and while walking around I noticed smallmouth guarding nests (they made some decent sized potholes, got the gravel picked out and everything). Is that normal behavior? They certainly have a few months to think about mating season. There's more than enough baitfish in the area but when I walked up they'd spook off the nests but always returned.

Not normal - wrong time of the year.....

Alright, summer is upon us so an update is in order:

All of the trout survived and are currently still active and between 17-19in, fat & happy for now but we need to fish them out for the table before the tails stop propelling them as the water temps are rising.

Something, and I do not know what yet due to heavy rains and poor visibility, spawned. They're maybe the length of my thumbnail but there are crazy amounts (won't be buying additional minnows or fatheads this year).

The Hybrid Stripers went from 8in to real beef eaters (see attachment) in less than a year. Hit like a hammer and so far zero complaints.

Earlier in late march a lot of beds were visible and a couple cruising SM Bass were hunkered in the shallower water (around 3.5ft) so maybe the ladies and gents had a date or two.

The Hybrid BG are pigs, only slightly larger than 8in but are not missing meals (and angry).

I have yet to see or catch a perch while fishing or feeding but it's been raining a lot so you really don't "see" what is hitting the pellets.

Getting some cattails and a little algae, the lilies Bill recommended are making a comeback. A little uncertain if Tilapia would eat the lilies and put me in the dog house (she loves those lilies).

I do have one question prior to putting in Tilapia, it seems mixed opinions on whether they will eat lilies. The lilies weren't cheap and just got going so I'd hate to lose them but would like a few pounds to keep the algae in check, has anyone had issues?

Tilapia are algae eaters, and won't harm lilies.

Beavers sure will though! They have wiped out mine

Beavers pruned my water lilies back a good bit as well, before my neighbor trapped them out. Took down a nice oak and a few bald cypress as well, Wish that they had stuck with the cottonwoods! Worst part was cleaning out the drain pipe every day. They dug under my pig-panel trash rack to get to it.

There are thriving hardy hybrid water lilies in a local pond that gets annual stockings of tilapia. The main fish as grass carp that is the problem for water lilies and this usually happens when all the other underwater plant are gone.

I left them alone till the wiped out (girdled) a 24” dia sweet gum by the pond edge. I don’t like sweet gum trees bu now have to cut it down and dispose of it…. Shot 4 of them in two days. They also will dig up Bahia grass and leave bare patches

Thanks, I just wanted to be sure and a couple pounds of Tilapia seems a whole lot easier than an algae rake. The guy down the road rakes every year all summer and it comes right back (plus you can eat tilapia - rakes don't grill up near as well).

They're eating well.

Another question. The HSB are getting near "hello food" size along with some of the YP & HBG. The forage base is rather insane but it being a smaller BOW I wondered when to start pulling some out and ladder stocking or just keep catch & release another year? I don't want to disrupt anything but I guess the question is what's normal (don't want to wait until there is a problem).

Any ideas appreciated.

STP, are you asking about both the Yellow Perch and the HSB as far as harvesting?

For the YP, do you know if you are having reproduction and recruitment?


I would let those HSB get substantially bigger just for the fun of catching them, and in consideration of what role the larger HSB would have in controlling the spawns of the HBG and the YP.

Both actually, I initially stocked 30 5-6in YP, then followed up last fall with another 20 8-10in. I find it hard to believe there is no recruitment, it looks like every resident found "a room" this past spring outside of the HSB & HBG. If the rain ever stops I'll give it a better look and toss out some minnow traps. I was more thinking long term with ladder stocking this fall, the thought was adding additional perch in the 5-6 range in maybe groups of 20 and (were we to take any out) replacing the HSB as we do.

I did catch a red ear a couple weeks ago so they are in there and have seen a smallmouth or two but they have been elusive (or just not hungry). We got 18 of the RBT to the table so that experiment worked and added 15 tilapia in the 6-7 range for summer "cleaning". The HBG have kept the kids crazy busy but I bend back the barbs and send return them (for now - any chunkier and they might hit the pan as well).

That's where it's at for now, any advice appreciated.

I just got refreshed on your pond stocking history.

If you are seeing a good bit of pond-born YP, then I would think you could harvest a few. Whether or not you stocked more YP, in my mind, would depend on if those pond-born YP are growing and filling the shoes behind what you harvest. If so, no real need to stock more unless you want to. At some point in the future, you could try and get some new YP genetics in the pond with new YP from a different source.

For the HSB, that's really your call. You can expect them to exceed 24" and 5-6 lbs (granted the pond is a bit smaller....eg. big waters big fish concept) which does take up some biomass.

I saw you put in (4) SMB initially. Did you ever add more? If so, what's the total count, and have they spawned and recruited?

Seems like a good call, I went a little untraditional and stocked Brooder shiners and those loser fatheads in mass early on, then walked away for 6mo because "stuff to do". Those buggers went a little nuts so the "command decision" was made fish of size next (5-8 with all species) and no fishing for a year or so. There's not much medium range now that I've been truly able to gauge besides shiners that look like a sardine and may need to be removed. So I tipped the scales some but the 140 of size originals are aren't missing meals.

4SMB went in and I've seen the originals cruising about but never hooked a one, have seen them on beds in the 4-5ft area they "own" so that's positive. I thought of grabbing another 4-6 SMB along with perch this fall, HSB I'm not sure without removing some, those wolves hunt like raptors in the morning and evening (don't seem particularly bright).

I'll try and set some traps this weekend and photo results.

So you only have the (4) SMB in there? You haven't seen that they spawned and the spawn survived?

With only (4) SMB, potentially, we can't really know if they were all one sex.

I'm very much into SMB, so my opinions are geared towards making them successful, just FYI.

Correct 4 went in but were maybe 6in, what I've seen (not caught) on beds were around 8-9in now and appeared quite pleased with themselves albeit uninterested in any sort of bait. At the time Jones' was short on supply and high on cost so I took what I could get. The whole idea was SM/YP/HSB (for laughs and table)/ HBG (for kids with bobbers). I have mixed YP with Fenders and Jones' depending on who has what. I could fairly easily bucket in SM from Seneca lake but have read here - bad idea - so did not consider it. The RES numbers were pretty low so if caught heading back in to do their job.

I don't see a world where SM ever get cheap but I do keep trapping local crayfish from the creek and chucking them in, never seen any damage so my guess is eaten upon arrival.

Thanks for your help, Sunil.

No LMB - No Catfish, don't care for them.

You're welcome.

For SMB, I think Fenders is keeping a list of interested customers, so maybe call and put your name on. It's not a commitment on your part, but if they get them, you could buy some more, which I would do.

Regarding relocating some SMB from another body of water, it's not that it won't work, it's just got a reduced chance of success as the transplanted fish have a greater chance of mortality and not adapting to their new digs. If you could catch some SMB from another pond/lake, I would do that. Of course, you need to make sure what's legal. In the case of 'relocating' a fish, I feel the younger the fish, the better chances.

Also, anything you stock now, you have to consider what the dirty dozen HSB may eat.

Those 12 HSB have pretty much staked the whole side 5ft or deeper as the killing grounds. Temps are up now but not even a week ago they went on several hunts I saw from the porch that did not end well for whatever was on the other end, not quite Nat'l Geographic filming but plenty of bait out of the water jumping. I'd expect higher water temps to slow them down until fall but Bill Cody said "they never stop eating" and I doubt he's wrong.

I'll get on the horn with Fenders (such nice people) and see what he has cooking in the pot regarding SMB this fall and also get some pics of whatever comes out of the traps (GSH for sure). Unless there's a drastic change there's little doubt enough food is there along with periodic pellets (every other week daily). Just trying to strike a predator/prey/hello frying pan balance.

Thanks so much for your help.

Also you have the risk of introducing unwanted invasives to the pond by stocking fish from public water unless you take the steps needed to "clean" them and any water that is from that public BOW.

Also talk to Steve at Shelby Fish Farm in Anna, OH. He packages fish in bags for transport. I know he will have a few SMB this Fall, and I know he will have feed trained walleye too. I brought him both.

Interesting, I see Walleye on the sites but always wondered how they would do. They'd be a nice asset against the gigantic GSH in there I'm sure and from what I've read they're past reproducing anymore and just another mouth to feed. I did contact Fenders and get in line for another 8SMB and 20YP of size (8in or bigger) maybe a some walleye wouldn't mess much up and every now and then make for an interesting "dude you got walleye in here" question.

Keep in mind we have not fished this pond until this year with the RBT (not wasting those) but the goal is to get to catch & keep, ladder up as needed. I wouldn't keep a smallmouth though, those are just for the fun.

At my main 4.5 acre pond, also my first pond, I chose the diversity route as I like to be surprised at what is caught.

This is not a fish story, my granddaughter caught what I guess is a HBG crossed with a RES maybe 5in. I didn't have my phone on me but it was oddly silver, fins were all wrong but at first I thought it was a crappie (which I never installed). Do any posters have pics of what that cross would look like? Going on the assumption "just a mutant" but would hate to find out some joker tossed crappie in the pond realizing they are so popular in S. Ohio I could see it though.

Without a picture of that fish it will be impossible to tell. Water clarity will have a big impact on the color of a fish.

I will try and duplicate her success and get a picture but as you all know taking kids or grandkids out fishing you can have the finest gear and somehow the kid with the snoopy or princess pole catches the largest bass in the pond or the elusive muskie that has always been rumored.

And that's the day you decide he/she is "too old for Christmas gifts".

Get any of the kids or grandkids to help.they will know how.

Update, before the rain dumped I had a chance to walk around the pond and do some light feeding and check on everything a couple weeks ago.

1) Perch Ribbons along the southern shoreline, first I have ever seen. Not a ton of the 4-5 but clarity has been an issue with all the rain. Happy to see things are well.

2) When feeding it was rather slow, some slow moving HBG, a couple YP then the HSB moved in. They moved from the far side of the pond in a single school and annihilated a quart mason jar of pellets. It appears all of them survived and they are winter hungry! Looked to be of good size and healthy.

3) I think with a little more sun (and less cold rain) everything should turn right on, probably by the end of the month.

Thanks everyone for all your help, I'll update as we head into the summer months.

Great update STP!!

A hungry school of HSB sounds like an excellent item to have in your pond!

Glad to hear they all made it through the winter.

Oh yes, they are fast & eating FishinRod. I was debating adding another 6-8lbs of FHM just so everyone else gets a bite but can't decide whether to wait out the spawn or just give everything a "boost". I'm leaning towards "boost" since it's been a few years, opinions welcome.

I realize they'd be toast in no time but Fenders has a decent price per lb.

If money is not a problem, I'd add more just for the pure joy of it.

Totally gassed today, we finally had pretty clear conditions and saw at least 6 new smallmouth survived last years spawn. All look healthy and range around 7-8in now, one was quick to the hook, did a little jumping and flew away released.

Everything else looks pretty good, we do have some monster shiners that if caught will be turned into bait. Waiting for tilapia safe temps and letting it ride.

I hope all is well!