Just under half acre pond, max depth 9-10 feet with a lot of the pond 6-7 feet deep...one side has a gradual bank. Pond is in the middle of the woods, water temp should not be a problem...will have aeration.

Located in central Ohio.

I have read many threads here and am looking to confirm that a SMB / YP with BG or RES is an efficient combination. I’d like to have some good eating fish along with some fun fish to catch for the kids.

Originally was just going to have LMB and BG but thought it would be good to have the above combination for food and fun....there isn’t really any SMB/YP ponds around me.

I have pebble to 1 inch rocks that I will add to the pond. Also have some thinned out painless needle Christmas trees to add.

Any major concerns of SMB with YP and BG...or switch out BG with RES?

Yes SMB with YP and RES will work at your location. I would leave out the BG. Both BG and YP can overpopulate. I would leave out the BG and add FH and another minnow source. You could add a few HBG if you want an additional easy to catch put and take fish species.

You have to have adequate cover for the RES/YP to help avoid predation so some of the YOY can grow large enough to reproduce in the pond. A client is fighting a VERY stunted SMB/YP/RES pond because he was adamant about NOT having cover in his pond. So the SMB reproduced and ate themselves out of house and home.

I would add that you want to be 100% certain that the RES you stock don't have any BG mixed in.

I'm having to do a lot of extra work to keep the accidental BG in check in my SMB/YP/RES pond.

esshup,

My reading of the consensus on PB is that most people tend towards reducing the amount of shallow cover for panfish in Bass/Panfish ponds.

I suspect your client is not the only one that is trying to add cover and correct an unbalanced pond.

If appropriate, could you post the steps taken to rehabilitate that pond in another thread? (I think it would get a lot of views.)

I forgot to add that I will be putting in FHM....would you introduce them several months ahead of time?

Also what kind of cover are people adding to an unbalanced pond. I feel fortunate starting from the bottom up here.

How big is your pond and what are some of the larger sizes your looking at in your SMB / YP / RES mix?

~.35ac, 16ft in the trough. It's a new-ish renovation. RES went in June of '19. Some of those are pushing 10" now.
Two stockings of YP fall of '19. First batch 200 3"-4", lost a bunch due to a water turn immediately after stocking.
Second batch of 70 6"-10" November of '19. The 3"-4" stockers were getting to the 7"-8" size by last fall, the advanced
stockers were running 10"+ last fall. SMB went in last fall 6"-8" size, along with some 10" HSB.

There were some BG mixed in with the first batch of RES that I bought. I had them caged, and daughter's doberman
ran over the cage and some of them escaped. Now I'm fighting to keep from being overrun with BG. I trapped out 400+ last summer.

As noted above, NO BG. But you will be happy with SMB/YP/RES.

Do a search for SMB spawning beds (big head stone, 2' - 3' diameter ring of medium rocks, fill the basin with your pebble-to-1" rocks) and put some in along with some nearby stumps/logs. That should keep your SMB spawning nicely.

Don't worry too much about YP overpopulating in 1/2 acre. 1) SMB will eat them in preference to the RES due to their shape, 2) you can probably control YP spawning by baiting and then removing YP egg ribbons, and 3) 1/2 acre is not too big to manage populations by angling.

Put in FHM as far ahead as possible - if the budget is tight, do them a year ahead to stretch out the purchases. Consider Gambusia (mosquito fish) - they are smaller than FHM but fast and prolific enough to maintain a presence even though RES, YP, and SMB will all eat them. I have had Gams in with my SMB/YP/RES/BGxRES since 2007 (also in my LMB/BG pond) end they keep breeding and feeding the bigger fish. No negative effects on the spawning of other species noticed.

Thanks, how deep are you putting the rock beds for the SMB spawning? I'm seeing 2-5 feet deep 2-3 foot wide rock pile structures.

so the YP spawn around the tree structures with the RES?

I put one row of SMB beds 3' deep and a second row at 5' deep. I have seen the 3' ones in use; water clarity prevents seeing the deeper ones at spawning time. But I figure at least they're available if it's a shallow water Spring.

RES will spawn in most any substrate IME. Tree structures are definitely possible YP ribbon sites.

I can get both FHM and Gams....would you put both in ahead of time at the same time before you put any other fish?

You can put them in together.

How big are your SMB / YP / RES in your mature 2007 pond?

If you feed the YP pellets you can add them in with the FHM, just buy twice as many FHM to insure enough survive to make good spawns - probably 6-8 lbs instead of 4 lbs. You can get some excellent long time domesticated pellet trained with several sizes of YP from Brehm's Perch Farm in West Liberty OH just west of Columbus. Tell them Bill Cody sent you. Buy the appropriate sized fish food where ever you get your YP. Both places should sell you 1/2 bag of two sizes of fish pellets if you buy some 7"-10"YP, they want 1/4 pellets. Smaller fingerling 3"-5" YP, HSB, SMB want 1/8"-3/16" pellets.
https://www.facebook.com/Brehms-Perch-Farm-371823336230161/photos/a.538744976204662/594452793967213
Shelby Fish Farm in Anna OH near I75 also has very good types of fish. He has the same strain of YP as Brehm's. He said he might get some SMB this year. He usually has HSB. I've stocked in 0.3 ac ponds SMB,, HSB(8-10) and YP-HBG. With pellets this combo did very well. The HSB lived 21 years. Check with him.

SMB are fairly hard to find but you might get some this fall as 3"-4" fish. Yes as noted, make extra sure you do not put in BG or you will have to eventually add LMB to keep BG from overpopulating. BG are extremely hard to control with SMB as predator. The LMB will eventually eliminate your YP and SMB in 0.5 ac. To help insure you do not get any BG with the RES or HBG make sure you buy the larger RES 4"-7" better 5"-7" so you can closely see the margins on the gill flaps before stocking them.

Thank you, that's great information.

Bill, have you ever heard of Briarwood Sportsman's Club? I'm used to be a member there and it is quite close to West Liberty.

Even in the cold of Ohio, I have a hard time imagining HSB living 21 years. Wow! I'm sure they were slower growing than here in Texas, but how big did they get?

Food was limiting for those 21 yr old HSB maxed out at around 8 lbs. I don't live near West Liberty. My local cousin just caught a 7 yr old HSB 7.5 lbs.

Interesting. HSB can get to same weight here in 4 or 5 years, but of course don't live as long. Heat is hard on them. Hoped to stock TFS this year, but the great freeze ended that dream.

I have caught SMB up to 17" and YP up to 13". Most "big" SMB are around 12'-13", most "big" YP are 11"-12".

Due to stocking male-only BG and the apparently relatively loose sexual mores of RES females, the sunfish in the pond are mostly BGxRES of various Fx generations. Growing them big is what I have concentrated on. The current record is 13 1/4" long, 2 lbs 8 3/4 oz.

Nice, that is a massive BG. What is the size and depth of your pond with that mix of fish?

Not too dissimilar to yours - just under a half acre, maximum depth 12 1/2 ft when dug. Probably 90% of it is 5 ft or deeper.

Thanks Bill, can you add a small number of larger RES with minnows early on?

Yes you can add larger RES with FHM. A low number of large RES will eat some of the smallest FHM but not enough that you will not notice a lack of FHM reproduction. Theo mentions having HBG (BGmalexRESfemale) with SMB, HSB and YP. I have done this same combo (BGxRES) and also used regular HBG in this fishes combo for different stockings, although the ponds had GSH. Just keep regularly feeding the fish high quality pellets, don't allow the SMB to over populate and you will get good results. I suggest using Optimal Bluegill to the RES trained to eat some pellets. Although high numbers of 10"-13" SMB will keep the YP and HBG skewed toward the larger sizes. You can always remove more SMB-HSB if you have too few quality panfish, as this will allow more recruitment of YP and HBG. RES will struggle to produce adequate numbers with SMB-HSB,YP, HBG. RES would be the occasional bonus fish if they persist past those that are initially stocked. .

Thank you again for the info Bill.