Pond Boss
Posted By: Gafftopsail Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/29/21 12:15 PM
Hi PB Community! First time poster. I just built a .75 acre pond on my property, and have decided to use a reputable pond and lake management company here in Georgia to stock it, just to make sure I get it right. My goal is to have a fishery that provides fast fishing action for my kids and their friends and family, and get bass in the 4-5 pound range, eventually.

I'm curious what everyone thinks of the mix and numbers they have suggested, as it somewhat resembles what I'm seeing on the boards here, but includes a couple more species.

Here's what they suggested and when to stock:

1,000 CNB - Feb
150 RES - Feb
2,000 FHM - Feb
2,000 GS - Feb
25 LMB - late summer
50 CC - Feb
60 lbs of crayfish - May

Total cost is $2250.

Thoughts? Thanks in advance!
Posted By: Theo Gallus Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/29/21 12:22 PM
How that works will depend a lot on what size CNB, RES, LMB, and CC you stock.
Posted By: CityDad Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/29/21 01:56 PM
Did they explain why you are staggering the stocking of forage?
Posted By: Quarter Acre Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/29/21 02:11 PM
Welcome to PB! Get back to the forums with the sizes as Theo suggests...

I strongly suggest that you only put FHM's in this year with plenty of pallets (or structure for laying eggs - your choice, but submerged pallets work really well). You WILL be amazed at what one year of FHM reproduction will do for next year's stocked game fish growth. This type of patience is not for everyone, but the benefits your pond will receive from this approach will be great. I cannot comment on the GS (GSD = gizzard shad) with this approach as I have no experience with them. Some have said that they can get too big in a smaller BOW and become bait stealers, however. If BOW's in your area have abundant snail populations, you might bump up the RES number to 200 to 250. AS far as the crayfish goes, I would consider adding them the year after the gamefish go in AND 60 pounds sounds like ALOT. Crayfish reproduce once in the spring and it does not take that many to make many more. I added too many craws to my pond with the FHM's which gave them 2 years before the stocked fish were big enough to control their population. My pond is void of submerged plant life and stays muddy all the time. I trapped out about 2000, 3 to 5" crawdads last year and that was not enough. This was year 4 for my pond. Don't get me wrong, I love them in the pond, but too many is too many. I would suggest that you line about 10 to 30% of the bank with 2-6" rock from the waterline down to the 18" water depth to give the craws a good haven. Without that, they will become expensive food for the CC and LMB.

Aside from that, your numbers look good to my novice eyes.
Posted By: Theo Gallus Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/29/21 02:32 PM
I was thinking GS = Golden Shiners. Gafftopsail should clarify. (The acronyms list uses "GSH" and "GSD".)
Posted By: Gafftopsail Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/29/21 02:38 PM
Ahh, sorry, I meant to include the sizes......

CNB - 3-4"
RES - 3-4"
FHM - 1-3"
GS (these are Golden Shiners, not sure if that's the correct abbreviation) - 2,000
LMB - 2"
CC - 6-8"
Posted By: Gafftopsail Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/29/21 02:40 PM
All the forage species would go in February, except the crayfish. But I did not get an explanation on why they went later, but I can check.
Posted By: Gafftopsail Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/29/21 02:44 PM
Originally Posted by Quarter Acre
Welcome to PB! Get back to the forums with the sizes as Theo suggests...

I strongly suggest that you only put FHM's in this year with plenty of pallets (or structure for laying eggs - your choice, but submerged pallets work really well). You WILL be amazed at what one year of FHM reproduction will do for next year's stocked game fish growth. This type of patience is not for everyone, but the benefits your pond will receive from this approach will be great. I cannot comment on the GS (GSD = gizzard shad) with this approach as I have no experience with them. Some have said that they can get too big in a smaller BOW and become bait stealers, however. If BOW's in your area have abundant snail populations, you might bump up the RES number to 200 to 250. AS far as the crayfish goes, I would consider adding them the year after the gamefish go in AND 60 pounds sounds like ALOT. Crayfish reproduce once in the spring and it does not take that many to make many more. I added too many craws to my pond with the FHM's which gave them 2 years before the stocked fish were big enough to control their population. My pond is void of submerged plant life and stays muddy all the time. I trapped out about 2000, 3 to 5" crawdads last year and that was not enough. This was year 4 for my pond. Don't get me wrong, I love them in the pond, but too many is too many. I would suggest that you line about 10 to 30% of the bank with 2-6" rock from the waterline down to the 18" water depth to give the craws a good haven. Without that, they will become expensive food for the CC and LMB.

Aside from that, your numbers look good to my novice eyes.

Great call on the pallets! Do you stack them, or just do one?

I'm reluctant to do the Shiners, just because of how big they can get (10" I've read). And they're not cheap. I was actually thinking if bumping up the RES numbers wouldn't make more sense, so glad to hear you say that! Also great info on the crayfish, I wasn't sure the rate of reproduction. Sounds like I could end up with a ton @ 60 lbs. Thanks for all the info!
Posted By: Augie Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/29/21 02:54 PM
Everything QA said.

Especially the part about holding off on crayfish until your bass are big enough to eat them.
Posted By: esshup Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/29/21 03:24 PM
GSH are there to provide an alternative forage fish besides FHM. If they aren't stocked, then the only forage fish for the LMB and CC are CNBG and minimally RES. RES don't reproduce enough to be a single source forage fish for LMB, and they are needed in ponds to control snails.

After the first year or two, the FHM will be all eaten and the YOY Golden Shiners (and adults) will become forage for the LMB, depending on how fast the LMB grow.

The craws probably aren't available in Feb, or they want to harvest them for stocking in ponds after they reproduce for the first time that year. They are either bycatch from fish farms when seining their ponds, raised in ponds strictly for harvest, or they could also be purchased as food craws for humans from fish suppliers that supply them to the food market..

Did they tell you what species of crayfish would be stocked?

If you want to get some underwater vegetation established in your pond, I would hold off on stocking the crayfish until you have some established.
Posted By: Quarter Acre Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/29/21 03:37 PM
Here is what I did with the pallets. I used stacks of 2 and 3, each pallet separated by bricks so that the slats were not laying on top of each other yielding more usable flat surfaces. NOTE: one cinder block is NOT enough. I ended up adding a few more and then some boulder rocks for good measure. If you don't use enough weight...you'll learn how to fish for pallets in the rain with a garden hose and sprinkler head...It's not as much fun as fishing for fish I can tell you that! lol One cinder block per pallet in the stack is a good start and then add more to be on the safe side. My pallets ended up being in 2 to 3' of water with about 10" of water over the top pallet at full pool.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

On the easier side, you could just string some together and let them float/sink at the shoreline. I have not done this, but considered it thinking that I could remove them easier once the FHM's eventually disappeared. The FHM's are all but gone now after 4 seasons. I decided to make them a more permanent structure in the pond regardless of FHM populations and not have to look at "Trash" floating around the pond in the mean time.

Here is the list of acronyms that we so frequently throw around.( Thanks to Theo!)...

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92442#Post92442

I would think that the CC sizes would be a bit large for my comfort. An 8 inch CC could easily eat a 2" LMB. And, I have found that 2 inches to a fish supplier means some will be 1-1/2 inches while others will be 3". Give the 2" LMB a full summer season to grow and 6-8" CC would make better sense to me.
Posted By: Gafftopsail Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/29/21 03:54 PM
Originally Posted by esshup
GSH are there to provide an alternative forage fish besides FHM. If they aren't stocked, then the only forage fish for the LMB and CC are CNBG and minimally RES. RES don't reproduce enough to be a single source forage fish for LMB, and they are needed in ponds to control snails.

After the first year or two, the FHM will be all eaten and the YOY Golden Shiners (and adults) will become forage for the LMB, depending on how fast the LMB grow.

The craws probably aren't available in Feb, or they want to harvest them for stocking in ponds after they reproduce for the first time that year. They are either bycatch from fish farms when seining their ponds, raised in ponds strictly for harvest, or they could also be purchased as food craws for humans from fish suppliers that supply them to the food market..

Did they tell you what species of crayfish would be stocked?

If you want to get some underwater vegetation established in your pond, I would hold off on stocking the crayfish until you have some established.

Thank you for all the info! I believe the crayfish are Red Swamp?
Posted By: Gafftopsail Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/29/21 03:57 PM
Originally Posted by Quarter Acre
Here is what I did with the pallets. I used stacks of 2 and 3, each pallet separated by bricks so that the slats were not laying on top of each other yielding more usable flat surfaces. NOTE: one cinder block is NOT enough. I ended up adding a few more and then some boulder rocks for good measure. If you don't use enough weight...you'll learn how to fish for pallets in the rain with a garden hose and sprinkler head...It's not as much fun as fishing for fish I can tell you that! lol One cinder block per pallet in the stack is a good start and then add more to be on the safe side. My pallets ended up being in 2 to 3' of water with about 10" of water over the top pallet at full pool.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

On the easier side, you could just string some together and let them float/sink at the shoreline. I have not done this, but considered it thinking that I could remove them easier once the FHM's eventually disappeared. The FHM's are all but gone now after 4 seasons. I decided to make them a more permanent structure in the pond regardless of FHM populations and not have to look at "Trash" floating around the pond in the mean time.

Here is the list of acronyms that we so frequently throw around.( Thanks to Theo!)...

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92442#Post92442

I would think that the CC sizes would be a bit large for my comfort. An 8 inch CC could easily eat a 2" LMB. And, I have found that 2 inches to a fish supplier means some will be 1-1/2 inches while others will be 3". Give the 2" LMB a full summer season to grow and 6-8" CC would make better sense to me.

That looks great! Thanks for the info on using the bricks and blocks, that info sounds like it will save me a lot of hassle down the road.

I'll hold off on the CC for now. I thought it seemed strange that the LMB were so small (and expensive!). Is getting bigger fish an option, or worth the extra money if available?
Posted By: Gafftopsail Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/29/21 04:08 PM
Just a couple more questions then I'll compile this great advice and modify my plan accordingly. Thank you everyone for the info!

Is 25 LMB too few? How many of these 25 should I expect to lose before they reach maturity?
I was planning on adding at least 1 feeder, but maybe 2 (one at each end of the lake). Is feeding overkill with this plan? And will my fish become feed-dependant (and not look at an artificial or hook n' worm)?
Because this pond was built in the middle of a field, there isn't any natural structure around. I was going to buy mostly artificial cover and add some rock rip rap, and do the pallets as Quarter Acre mentioned. Any pros/cons to artificial vs. natural? (other than price?)

Thanks again for all the help. Once the pond fills I'll add some pictures!
Posted By: Quarter Acre Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/29/21 04:28 PM
That number of LMB would be conducive to growing larger LMB compared to larger BG. In this scenario, it is commonly thought that the BG-like species will overpopulate and stunt. Fewer bass to keep the BG in check. This leaves an army of BG-like fish to reproduce and provide forage for the few LMB. Hence growing larger bass. The opposite (more LMB and fewer BG) would lean towards an overpopulation and stunting of bass that would deplete the BG reproduction leaving more food for the larger BG. Hence growing larger BG. That's my watered down version and if it interests you, read this (Thanks Mr. Cody!)...

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=189988#Post189988

It has been my experience in my little pond that the fish are difficult to catch on lures, but using something that resembles a feed pellet (brown fuzzy fly or small piece of worm) greatly increases my chances (and at feeding time). But, I have HSB and HBG stocked. Not everyone experiences this especially those with larger BOW's. HSB are known to be hard to trick too. I love feeding the fish so that's what I do and it can only help your fish so long as you don't overfeed.
Posted By: Bill Cody Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/29/21 04:41 PM
You say once the pond fills. Do we assume that it is not full and no fish have been added yet???

Most artificial cover lasts year round and for more years than natural weeds. Most submerged weeds die back each year. Depending on water clarity expect some natural weeds to invade the pond from numerous various sources or ways. This FA invasion and often weed development almost always happens early in pond aging which is especially true for filamentous algae(FA) if your water has visibility greater than 2-3ft. Submerged leafy-stem weed growth can spread and often needs to be controlled whereas artificial cover does not create more cover, however a natural attached algal-invertebrate community growth aka PERIPHYTON does develop on the artificial surfaces that helps increase the pond's productivity. IMO when adding artificial cover one does not add anyway near the amount nor the same type of cover that underwater weed beds provide. Thus you cannot expect the same benefits from both types of cover. Most artificial cover serves primarily as fish attractors and not refuge areas and food production areas unless one adds huge amounts of artificial cover along all or 50%+ of the shorelines. Those pictures above are IMO just fish attractors and not refuge - food production areas for small fish. Artificial cover types and amount are dependent on one's goals.

Pellet trained and pellet fed fish do not become feed-dependent because the fish are always competing for and feeding on natural food items in the pond. Your main concern with the fish in a 0.7ac pond is creating hook smart fish which will reduce angle catch much more than pellet feeding.

We will discuss number of LMB as 25 in 0.7ac after we know if any fish have been stocked.
Posted By: Gafftopsail Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/29/21 05:36 PM
Originally Posted by Bill Cody
You say once the pond fills. Do we assume that it is not full and no fish have been added yet???

Most artificial cover lasts year round and for more years than natural weeds. Depending on water clarity expect some natural weeds to invade the pond from numerous various sources or ways. This FA invasion and often weed development almost always happens early in pond aging which is especially true for filamentous algae(FA) if your water has visibility greater than 2-3ft. Submerged leafy-stem weed growth can spread and often needs to be controlled whereas artificial cover does not create more cover, however a natural attached algal-invertebrate community growth aka PERIPHYTON does develop on the artificial surfaces that helps increase the pond's productivity. IMO when adding artificial cover one does not add anyway near the amount nor the same type of cover that underwater weed beds provide. Thus you cannot expect the same benefits from both types of cover. Most artificial cover serves primarily as fish attractors and not refuge areas and food production areas unless one adds huge amounts of artificial cover along all or 50%+ of the shorelines. Those pictures above are IMO just fish attractors and not refuge - food production areas for small fish. Artificial cover types and amount are dependent on one's goals.

Pellet trained and pellet fed fish do not become feed-dependent because the fish are always competing for and feeding on natural food items in the pond. Your main concern with the fish in a 0.7ac pond is creating hook smart fish which will reduce angle catch much more than pellet feeding.

We will discuss number of LMB as 25 in 0.7ac after we know if any fish have been stocked.

Thanks Bill Cody, that's all great info, thank you for sharing your knowledge.

Yes, it is a new pond that is appx 8 feet deep (at the deepest point) and is currently 2-3 feet full. No fish have been stocked in it.
Posted By: Gafftopsail Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/29/21 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by Quarter Acre
That number of LMB would be conducive to growing larger LMB compared to larger BG. In this scenario, it is commonly thought that the BG-like species will overpopulate and stunt. Fewer bass to keep the BG in check. This leaves an army of BG-like fish to reproduce and provide forage for the few LMB. Hence growing larger bass. The opposite (more LMB and fewer BG) would lean towards an overpopulation and stunting of bass that would deplete the BG reproduction leaving more food for the larger BG. Hence growing larger BG. That's my watered down version and if it interests you, read this (Thanks Mr. Cody!)...

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=189988#Post189988

It has been my experience in my little pond that the fish are difficult to catch on lures, but using something that resembles a feed pellet (brown fuzzy fly or small piece of worm) greatly increases my chances (and at feeding time). But, I have HSB and HBG stocked. Not everyone experiences this especially those with larger BOW's. HSB are known to be hard to trick too. I love feeding the fish so that's what I do and it can only help your fish so long as you don't overfeed.

I did ask them for a strategy where I had nice sized, easy to catch BGs for the kids while not sacrificing some decent sized LMB. So this makes sense. Thanks!
Posted By: Snipe Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/29/21 05:53 PM
When I click on your location, it shows Jefferson, KS, which is 40 miles from me but CNBG don't work here so I know that must be a mistake. Where abouts in general are you located?
Posted By: esshup Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/29/21 05:54 PM
The Red Swamp Crayfish are what are typically used for "crawfish boils" and are available in 50#-60# sacks. They will burrow into the pond banks.

What Bill is alluding to when he talks about cover is 110% correct, typically you want to have 25% of the surface area of the pond in cover for the fish. Once you start doing the math for artificial cover, that gets either very expensive or very time intensive very quickly. For your pond you would need to add approximately 7,600 sq. ft. of cover for the fish. A single stack of pallets is only 16 sq. ft. Cover needs to be of different sizes and at varying depths, large fish will utilize cover with more open spaces in it vs. small fish that will utilize dense cover with small spaces.
Posted By: Gafftopsail Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/29/21 05:56 PM
Originally Posted by Snipe
When I click on your location, it shows Jefferson, KS, which is 40 miles from me but CNBG don't work here so I know that must be a mistake. Where abouts in general are you located?

Jefferson, GA
Posted By: Snipe Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/29/21 06:16 PM
Yeah, that sounds better!
I can assure you your growth rates will be much more desirable there. :-))
Posted By: Bill Cody Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/30/21 01:59 AM
There are several concepts for the initial stocking of LMBass (LMB) for numbers per acre. This depends on ones goals. The three main goals are 1. general fishing, 2. mostly large panfish and 3. a focus on producing large bass. The most common stocking densities of LMB range from 25 to 100+ bass per acre. Generally the lower numbers of 25-40 per acre are for producing large bass quickly, mid-range numbers of 50-80/ac are for general fishing and higher numbers of 90-140 LMB/ac are for growing trophy panfish.

The most common stocking method suggested on this PBoss forum prefers that the forage fish of minnows and or bluegill(BG) are stocked first and allowed to spawn and produce large numbers of forage fish. Then later in 5 to 12 months the LMB are stocked to eat and grow fast to sizes of 2 to 3 pounds in usually around 2-3 years. Variations of timing for stocking are often suggested for different pond goals. After 2-3 years, fish management as mainly proper harvest numbers of sizes and species, is needed to keep the bass and or panfish from becoming over abundant. There are different numbers of fish to harvest depending on one of the three main goals mentioned above.

When the predator bass become larger and have reproduced once, twice or three times they are often overabundant and over eat the available numbers of forage fish. Then the LMB have slower growth rates unless some bass are removed. Over abundant LMB cause the development of lots of larger BG because large numbers of bass are eating almost all the small BG and remaining BG have lots of food to grow big. How you harvest your fish determines the quality of the overall sizes of fish in the pond.

There are lots of discussions and posts for growing LMB and bluegill (BG) in our Archives Section.
https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=22&page=1

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=255372#Post255372

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=189988#Post189988
Posted By: Gafftopsail Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/30/21 03:05 AM
Thanks Bill, I appreciate all that information. I think I’m going to stick with 25 to start, as that fits my goals. Thanks again.
Posted By: CityDad Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/31/21 12:50 AM
Hey guys I wanted to jump in with a question-
Your comment about not adding crayfish until the bass can eat them gives me hope for establishing them in my pond.
Any tips (size, species?) for adding crayfish to a pond that currently has predators?
Posted By: Bill Cody Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/31/21 12:54 AM
Remember that 25/ac is around 30 to 35 LMB in 0.75ac.
Posted By: Snipe Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/31/21 01:46 AM
Originally Posted by Bill Cody
Remember that 25/ac is around 30 to 35 LMB in 0.75ac.
My math says 17-18 fish Bill. Am I missing the formula? Is this an official "it depends" moment?? :-))
Posted By: Snipe Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/31/21 01:51 AM
CityDad, Lusk made a comment last weds that it's best to stock what native variety is most common.. My personal opinion would be biased because I'm not familiar with FL Craws so I would highly recommend following Bob's advice and stock local varieties.
Posted By: Bill Cody Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/31/21 02:19 AM
Snipe is "sharp" in his math skills tonight. Yes 25/ac is 17-18 fish for 0.75 acre. Personally I would stock a few extra more like 25 to 35 LMB because we have to remember that about 1/2 of the these stocker bass would be males and would be the slower growing stocked bass. Tests have shown that male LMB rarely ever reach 5 lbs and usually around 3-4 lbs. After the bass had grown for at least one year and during year 2, I would start trying to remove the shorter bass that were being caught. This could reduce the number of stocked bass down to around the 20 per acre and help keep the amount of forage fish still abundant to allow plenty of food for the remaining bass to keep growing.

New experimentation by Solitude Lake Mgmt in VA has found that to grow big bass fast the pond should have biomass of forage far greater than the 10 lbs of forage to grow predators one pound. In this study the results indicated that when all female LMB were stocked at 13" they quickly reached the 5-6lb weights. We should remember that Gaftopsail's pond is in GA where LMB have the potential to reach the 8-10 lb status when the bass are not crowded and ALWAYS have plenty of the correct size of forage food items.
Posted By: Snipe Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/31/21 02:22 AM
Good point Bill. if 30 were stocked and 15 were male/female, there may be only 3-5 fast growing "trophy" -or- large size potential there. Very good point!
Posted By: esshup Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/31/21 04:25 AM
Unless you have plenty of habitat for them(crayfish) to hide in to escape predators (piles of rocks, riprap a few stones thick, etc.) they won't establish in a pond, they will all get eaten in a year or less.

I'm talking 2 full truck loads, double axle dump trucks per acre.
Posted By: Bill Cody Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 01/31/21 04:34 PM
esshup has it correct - ample habitat is what grows the best quality fish. "So goes the habitat; so goes the fishery".
Posted By: Bill Cody Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 02/01/21 01:49 AM
However we should not forget nor overlook Gafftopsail’s original goal: “My goal is to have a fishery that provides fast fishing action for my kids and their friends and family, and get bass in the 4-5 pound range, eventually.”
If the goal is for primarily LMB in the 4 to 5 lb range then if more than 25/ac are stocked, four main things will happen assuming ample forage foods are available. 1. More bass should be stocked as with 60 to 70/ac. 2. More original stocker bass will be present to create more top end bass present. 3. Anglers will have faster action of catching bass. 4. More bass will eat more BG and this will reduce BG numbers allowing more BG to grow larger for more exciting fast angler panfish action.

The current philosophy or management recommendation of stocking 25 LMB per acre is rationale for producing relatively quickly very large bass toward the 8-10 pound range. If the goal is for the larger top end bass to be 4 to 5 lbs then this can be accomplished when using a higher number of stocker bass. Since 4lb bass is part of the fishery goal, some of the original male bass should eventually reach the 3.75 to 4 lb category and contribute to the 'group' of bigger stocker bass in the pond. If pellet trained stocker bass are used, then the number of LMB stocked could even be more as in 75 to 90 per acre.
Posted By: Theo Gallus Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 02/01/21 12:02 PM
One never goes broke betting on Bill Cody.
Posted By: ewest Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 02/02/21 12:41 AM
Originally Posted by Bill Cody
There are several concepts for the initial stocking of LMBass (LMB) for numbers per acre. This depends on ones goals. The three main goals are 1. general fishing, 2. mostly large panfish and 3. a focus on producing large bass. The most common stocking densities of LMB range from 25 to 100+ bass per acre. Generally the lower numbers of 25-40 per acre are for producing large bass quickly, mid-range numbers of 50-80/ac are for general fishing and higher numbers of 90-140 LMB/ac are for growing trophy panfish.

Further most of the low LMB stocking #s are for southern waters where reproduction is sooner and LMB overcrowding is more prevalent. Northern LMB stocking is substantially different for the opposite reasons.

Cody Note: At least in the smaller ponds in northern midwest and probably in most of the midwest, it is common to have various degrees of overcrowding of LMB. Four of the most common things I think cause this to occur: 1. no bass are removed (Harvested), 2. poor survival of the originally stocked BG. 3. State agency stocking recommendation is stock a ratio of 100LMB to 500BG at the same time. This often results in the bass quickly growing and over powering the first year class of BG. 4. BG only spawn once maybe some twice a year and too many LMB are present for the limited number of BG produced each year. Some well fed LMB in the midwest can spawn at one year old.
Posted By: Gafftopsail Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 02/04/21 03:31 PM
Originally Posted by Bill Cody
However we should not forget nor overlook Gafftopsail’s original goal: “My goal is to have a fishery that provides fast fishing action for my kids and their friends and family, and get bass in the 4-5 pound range, eventually.”
If the goal is for primarily LMB in the 4 to 5 lb range then if more than 25/ac are stocked, four main things will happen assuming ample forage foods are available. 1. More bass should be stocked as with 60 to 70/ac. 2. More original stocker bass will be present to create more top end bass present. 3. Anglers will have faster action of catching bass. 4. More bass will eat more BG and this will reduce BG numbers allowing more BG to grow larger for more exciting fast angler panfish action.

The current philosophy or management recommendation of stocking 25 LMB per acre is rationale for producing relatively quickly very large bass toward the 8-10 pound range. If the goal is for the larger top end bass to be 4 to 5 lbs then this can be accomplished when using a higher number of stocker bass. Since 4lb bass is part of the fishery goal, some of the original male bass should eventually reach the 3.75 to 4 lb category and contribute to the 'group' of bigger stocker bass in the pond. If pellet trained stocker bass are used, then the number of LMB stocked could even be more as in 75 to 90 per acre.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply, Bill Cody. If I were to put my goal in one sentence, it would be to have panfish as big as possible but not sacrifice some decent sized LMB in the process. 70% of the fishing is going to be kids bobber fishing, 20% is going to be fly fishing, and 10% will be my buddies that like to catch bass. I am not a bass fisherman, per se, but living in the south that's the main attraction. And when I accidentally back into one I admit they're pretty fun to catch. So sounds like I should at least double my LMB numbers to accomplish that?
Posted By: Bill Cody Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 02/04/21 05:05 PM
If you FIRST start with establishing a strong forage fish and crayfish community, I think in your 0.75 ac you could easily stock 65 to 75 LMB and get great growth rates for the first 3 years with some bass 4lb and maybe a few 5 lbs. Stock your minnows/BG early in the spring then in the fall try and find Young Of Year bass that are at least 7"-10" from Georgia which shows they have been fed well and will have good growth rates. Also try to find pellet trained LMB which will greatly enhance the fishery. After the first bass spawn, then be observant and harvest at least some bass based on the numbers of small bass you are seeing and catching. This could easily be 15-30 small bass out per year. Small bass will be eager to bite on anglers bobber fishing methods. Use this forum thread and the members to help you with information to manage the fish numbers to achieve and MAINTAIN your goals.
Posted By: ewest Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 02/04/21 05:47 PM
This plan will work with good population mgt. ! With feeding and those #s of LMB the first 3 years should be good. It will be managing the population from 3 yr out which will take some effort but is doable. This 3 yr on mgt. aspect is true of all LMB/BG stocking methods.
I would make one suggestion on initial stocking. I would find and stock 30 4-6 inch CNBG (50/50 male/female) along with the initial CNBG stocking (1000).
Posted By: Mongos Pond Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 03/01/21 07:08 PM
Question on size of forage and LMB to stock. I've attached a price list of a place I'm looking at getting my fish from...
Suggestions on what size if the BG and RES y'all would recommend...
Thanks in advance...

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Posted By: 5444 Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 03/02/21 12:34 PM
CityDad, from my research you want papershell crawfish. They are not a burrowing type and the last thing you want is deep boreholes in your dam. You will want some rock piles for cover and breeding. Others have recommended not adding crawfish to your pond until predators are established because the crawfish can over populate and get out of hand pretty quickly. There is a wealth of knowledge on this forum from guys like snipe, Bill Cody, Quarter acre, TJ, esshup, and many others. They all have been very helpful and instrumental in helping me with my pond.
Posted By: nehunter Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 03/02/21 02:25 PM
How far north can a paper shell live?
Posted By: ewest Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 03/02/21 04:01 PM
Originally Posted by Mongos Pond
Question on size of forage and LMB to stock. I've attached a price list of a place I'm looking at getting my fish from...
Suggestions on what size if the BG and RES y'all would recommend...
Thanks in advance...

It depends on your goals and approach to mgt. (timing). All the comments below are subject to your goals , $ available and timing and availability.

My approach would be to stock FH first (now).

In about a mth +- stock small BG , CNBG and RES I would use 3/4 of my BG budget on small stockers and 1/4 on 4-5 inch fish. I would shoot for 500 small stockers and 50 4-5 inch.

Then in about 2-3 mths stock LMB (40) in the 4-5 inch size. I would stock 30 Northerns and10 F-1s . No Fla LMB at your location.

I would wait on CC and anticipate stocking advanced size 10 inch when pond has been stocked for a year. I would treat CC as put and take.

Other options like YP and HSB I would use the advanced size stocking method like CC.
Posted By: Mongos Pond Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 03/02/21 06:28 PM
Thanks ewest.. Love to tap y'alls' knowledge...
Agree with Esshup re crawdads. With predation, I doubt that they will last very long. Expensive snack.
Posted By: Mongos Pond Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond? - 03/03/21 11:02 PM
Really like the pallet idea for fathead cover.

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