Pond Boss
Posted By: Gpugh Hybrid striped bass and walleye, when to add - 08/23/20 05:52 PM
Hello all, just built a new pond last nov. it's one and one fourth acre, 22 ft deep with a 10 ft wide, 5 ft deep channel down the middle that makes it 27 ft deep in the channel. I filled the pond from a creek on the back side of my property, filled with a 2 inch trash pump. I stocked the pond with 11 pounds of fathead minnows last dec then added 20 more pounds in February. In April I stocked 10 lbs of golden shiners, 215 yellow perch, and 100 red ear sunfish. I also added 5 dozen creek chubs, 6 dozen craw dads, from the creek below the pond, same one I filled the pond with. A friend has been catching shiners and minnows ( he calls them blood shiners and ozark minnows) from the Nianga river in southern mo. About 10 dozen of these.
I now have thousands of minnows in the pond. I have been feeding them Optimal Jr and a special lab mix that Dustin from Optimal said would really turbo charge these fish (90 dollars a bag) and man it really turbo charged em ! The perch were 2-3 inches when stocked, now they are 8-9 inches. Shiners were 2 inches and are now 4-5 inches and about 2 inches from back to belly. Don't know how big the red ears are because I haven't seen or caught any. The fat heads are huge and spawning like crazy. I am assuming that the perch are putting the hammer on the fat heads because i see a slight decline in their numbers, and when I feed them something comes up and slams em.
I want to add hybrid striped bass (25) and walleye (25) I was wondering if I should wait until the perch spawn before adding?
I am in no hurry cause me and the wife really get a kick out of watching the minnows feed every evening, 4 cups of junior, 2 cups of the lab mix, one cup of sportsmen choice, all eaten in about 15 minutes.
I waited on adding the perch and red ears until the minnows spawned and the I hoped that by the time they were big enough to eat the minnows, the minnow spawn would keep ahead of them, seems to be working.
Question is, when to add the stripers and walleye.
Thanks
Gregg
Hello, is anybody home???
Sorry I don't have experience with perch and walleye. It's frustrating when you ask a question and don't get a response
Walleye are typically available only in the Fall, while the Hybrid Stripers are usually available all year except when water temps are in the 80's and higher. You could add both this Fall.
This fall would be fine... are you getting fish from http://www.harrisonfishery.com/ ?
Thanks for the replies,
I have a couple more questions if you all don't mind, I don't want to be bugging everybody with my armature questions.
If I stock them this fall, won't they be big enough by spring to eat the yp fry this spring? I was hoping to get the yp recruitment this spring or do you think there are enough in there now?
Also, last night we were feeding and my wife and I saw what looked like three carp getting the pellets. They were goldish brown and we could see their lips. These fish are huge compared to the others, probably 15 inches and about 3 or 4 pounds, I can't believe they could grow that fast. I am thinking they must have come in with the minnows. Is this going to cause any problems? If it does, how do I get rid of them?
I was thinking about getting my HSB and WE from Racoon Valley, in Pleaseant Hill mo. Anybody have any experience dealing with them?
Thanks
G
It wouldn't hurt a thing to wait one more season before stocking your predator fish. Waiting will give your forage base a really good head start.

Our ponds sound very similar, but I'm a year in front of you. I stocked FHM/GSH spring of '19, RES in June of '19, then YP in the fall of '19.
SMB/HSB/WAE are going in this fall.

You might be able to catch out the carp using a pellet fly, or just shoot em with a .22 when they come to feed.

And maybe check with your friend to make sure he knows not to bring you any carp.
31 pounds of FHM and 10 pounds of GSH in a quarter acre pond shocked Since you added them before any predators, you could've gotten away with maybe only a pound or two each of FHM and GSH and they would've completely filled your pond this past (or current) spawning season. ~$30 investment versus a ~$300+ investment. But your new perch, and future HSB and WE will be super happy.
Thanks Augie, I think I am going to do like you said and wait until next year before adding the HSB and WE, just to make sure the forage gets a good head start. Are your yp hitting your minnows pretty hard? I had around hundreds of thousands until about a couple months ago (probably closer to a million) and now there's about half as many, I just assume the perch and red ears are tearing em up, hope so anyway! Have you caught any perch yet? I can't believe how fast mine have grown, is it normal for them to grow this fast, or is that special blend from Optimal really cranking them up?
Steve, my pond isn't 1/4 acre, it's 1 1/4 acre. You are right, I seem to have some happy fish!! They are exploding in size, just want to make sure my perch don't wipe out my minnows before the big boys go in,
Thanks
G
Originally Posted by Gpugh
Steve, my pond isn't 1/4 acre, it's 1 1/4 acre.
Ahh, my bad. I read one fourth acre, and didn't see the other "one" before it. Recommended stocking rates of FHM with no predators is around 10 pounds per acre, which would've been about 12.5 pounds for your pond size. But hey, no one is gonna argue against "too many" minnows laugh
Yes, my YP are destroying the FHMs at a rapid pace. I'm seeing maybe half the numbers of FHM compared to 60 days ago. It's an absolute slaughter when I throw pellets.

I've only caught one YP on hook and line, and that was unintentional. I've caught quite a few in my traps. They're growing very well on Optimal Jr. and minnows.

I want to sample for yoy YP soon, but my battle with the dang muskrats has kept me distracted from starting that.

I'm going to start building a new Z trap this evening, so once I dispatch the last of the rat vermin I'll be ready to see if they managed a spawn last spring.

You're getting really nice growth from your spring-stocked YP fingerlings. I should trap a few of mine out and get some weight/length measurements.
My wife and I just got back in from fishing for the carp/sucker or whatever the heck it is.
My wife caught about seven, 8 inch creek chubs, kinda fun on an ultra lite. We were fishing with corn, had no idea chubs like corn.
I fished off the bottom and all I caught was craw dads, saw the shadows of the carp/suckers, but no bites. Augie, I think I am going to have to go your .22 route.My wife wants me to wait until the end of the week before I shoot em, she really wants to catch one on a rod just in case it's a sucker instead of a carp. I did stock about five suckers last April. From what I've read, suckers are not bad in a pond, and they don't taste too bad either... I hope that is correct
I put the craw dad trap out and baited with Optimal, in 15 minutes I had nine really big craws, am going to leave it out all night... we will be eating craws for lunch tomorrow.
As I know carp/suckers, normally suckers will not readily come to the surface for pellets although carp will quickly learn to pellet feed on the surface. I think your carp/suckers are carp. When they were feeding on the pellets did they appear to have wide bodies? This suggests carp. The most common sucker is a white sucker round elongate bodied fish. Goldish brownish hue also suggests carp.
Bill,
These fish don't come all the way up to eat the pellets, they do have wide bodies though. They are absolutely goldish brown, but they stay about a foot down.
My main question is, do I need to get rid of them? What happens if they stay in the pond.
Thank you, I really appreciate all the help you guys give
G
Stock predators when they can go to sleep with their mouth open and wake up with a full belly. Actually, if forage is properly stocked, give them plenty of time to reproduce and then add your predators. What's a predator? Anything that has a large enough mouth to eat whatever is in front of them. So, a 5 inch bluegill will do a number on bass fry. And that's OK. 95% of the eggs laid/hatched, etc. will neve see their first birthday.

Catfish seldom pull off a successful spawn in a pond setting. Their fry go everywhere in a school, swim slowly and get picked off by everything bigger.
If the suckers you stocked came from a stream near where you live they are most likely some variety of redhorse.

Sucker, IMO, is one of the best eating fish that swims in Missouri waters. I put it right up there with walleye and flathead catfish.
well the perch are waking up with full bellies that's for sure. If those are suckers, and I can figure out how to catch em, they are going to get a grease bath.
Do they spawn in ponds?
shoot them with a 22 for sure....I am about to resort to this method to take out some large bullhead that feed rob at my pond
Matt,
They have until the end of the week, then I am going to break out the ole Ruger 10:/.22, I ain't taking no chances, Mr. Cody thinks they are carp and that's good enough for me.......time to smoke em come Sunday
Smoke em with the 'ol Elmer Fudd, then fillet, brine, and smoke em in the smoker.
Unless they turn out to be suckers. Those you'll want to scale, fillet, score to the skin, and then release to the grease.
Suckers including redhorse will not produce thriving fish fry in a pond. Carp will readily reproduce and IMO more than 4 large ones will keep the water more turbid than it would be without the carp. Turbid water has pros and cons. Get rid of as many of the carp as possible. Carp as their total weight also detract from the weight of usable good sportfish in the pond. Look up carp fishing on Youtube and pay close attention of what they experts recommend.
Use those methods with the baiting,chumming and angling they suggest. If you catch any try and get us a picture of one of them. Since they have not reproduced yet(?),,, you should be able to catch most of them with dedicated anger persistence. Also the creek chubs will not produce young chubs in the pond and I would also remove them, when ever caught, in favor of growing other more beneficial fish.
Carp/suckers and chubs, they are coming out.
Have the Grandkids coming out this week to get rid of them
Thanks all
G
The creek chubs will eat small fish too........
Augie,

How have your YP and SMB done together? Anything really thriving in your pond?
It's too early to tell, but I expect them to be a good combination. The SMB just went in last fall as 6"-8" size. The YP went in fall of '19 and are doing very well so far.
I caught a YP 11" a couple weeks ago, and I see several that are considerably larger at pellet time.
The accidental BG and the RES I consider to be outstanding. The original stockers of those were put in June/July of '19 and are 10"+ and fat like footballs.
That’s great stuff, did you pellet feed the RES and BG the last two years?
Yes. There is a story in the Jan/Feb issue of PB magazine on my adventures pellet training baby RES.
I just read the huge thread on pellet training and all the updates. Well done and fascinating.

Have you tried adding anything else besides pellets or minnows to RES diet? Is it a good idea to throw snails in or is that a waste of money/damaging?
Mother Nature will bring snails to your pond. I did add some early on, but not really on purpose. They were collected in the marsh with the GAMs and daphnia that I captured.

I added ~100 northern crayfish that QA donated. They are doing well and making enough baby crayfish that my RES grew noticeably over the winter.
Nice, do you have SMB in there for the crayfish? I am adding stones concrete and rip rap for the SMB and have considered throwing in some crayfish for them. Have read that I want the paper shell crawfish that don’t borrow and destroy the shorelines. Still reading up on them.

I will eventually have YP RES and SMB, hoping to have a decently balanced pond that keeps the young fisherman busy.
I stocked SMB and HSB last fall. They aren't big enough yet to take on a full-grown northern crayfish.
Did you ever catch the carp/suckers? I believe I might have them in my pond. I am not sure how to target them, given the weedy bottom I have eliminates the possibility of bottom fishing.
Originally Posted by Augie
Yes. There is a story in the Jan/Feb issue of PB magazine on my adventures pellet training baby RES.

Really enjoyed your story, Augie. Like so many pondmeisters, the only time I ever see my RES is when the electro boat comes out.
I never did catch them, just see them every once in a while, they don't come to the top and you only see them for a few seconds about one foot down, no chance to get a shot at em yet
Originally Posted by Fyfer123
Did you ever catch the carp/suckers? I believe I might have them in my pond. I am not sure how to target them, given the weedy bottom I have eliminates the possibility of bottom fishing.

You might be able to try a "zig rig". Its a way of suspending a carp bait off the bottom.

[Linked Image from images.squarespace-cdn.com]
Originally Posted by Steve_
Originally Posted by Fyfer123
Did you ever catch the carp/suckers? I believe I might have them in my pond. I am not sure how to target them, given the weedy bottom I have eliminates the possibility of bottom fishing.

You might be able to try a "zig rig". Its a way of suspending a carp bait off the bottom.

[Linked Image from images.squarespace-cdn.com]

Might try baiting the area first for a few days, then fishing. Use fluorocarbon, they can get very picky!
Sounds like what I've seen as well. I've only seen the fish once and it was a foot down and swam away once it sensed or saw me.
Thanks for the idea. We use a similar rig here for steelhead with a floating roe bag. I will give that a try. I wonder if carp would eat floating PowerBait?
if you want to get rid of carp/suckers.....put some lights on a boat (hand held battery spot light will work) and slowly creep around the pond with a bow fishing outfit - shoot 'em
Originally Posted by anthropic
Originally Posted by Augie
Yes. There is a story in the Jan/Feb issue of PB magazine on my adventures pellet training baby RES.

Really enjoyed your story, Augie. Like so many pondmeisters, the only time I ever see my RES is when the electro boat comes out.

I'm gathering a few things so I can quickly weigh, measure, and photograph. Soon as I'm set up I'll catch a few of the RES and report back.
With any luck I'll get that done this weekend. Weather guessers say cold is coming so that might set me back a bit.

First week of May I'll start caging any juvenile RES that I trap and start the pellet training process on a new batch. I've caught a couple dozen
already this spring, and I probably should have caged them, but the weather has been hot/cold/hot/cold so I decided to wait until the cold is finished.
Originally Posted by Matzilla
if you want to get rid of carp/suckers.....put some lights on a boat (hand held battery spot light will work) and slowly creep around the pond with a bow fishing outfit - shoot 'em

I agree with Matzilla.

One time in my youth, the bass weren't biting but the carp were spawning in the flats all around the reservoir. We started wading in knee-deep water with our landing net. We managed to scoop about 8 large carp in the boat because they were so "preoccupied" with other activities.

I think all of the ones we caught were male because the floor of the boat started to collect milt. That forced us to net them all OUT of the boat.

These carp appeared to create a distinct rolling motion in the water while spawning. However, they always muddied the water so I could not exactly observe what they were doing. I think you could definitely clean some out with a bow & arrow during the spawn. A 22 might work even better - if legal and safe to shoot. (Low angle shots at calm water can definitely deflect back up.)
Interesting story. Hopefully, I only have one or zero so no spawning. My pond used to have carp before I owned it and it required a full chemical renovation to be restored.
Good on the low number Fyfer, I was worried you had a worsening infestation!
I was interested to hear that your second generation of RES trained to feed faster than the first generation. Maybe you could be breeding a variant that pondowners would find easier to feed & catch?
Thanks. We had a mystery bucket of fish dumped by a neighbor. Still trying to figure out what's been added.
I hadn't considered that, but it stands to reason. Offspring inherit any number of traits from their parents.
Seems logical that feeding behavior could be one of those traits.

When I get this next batch started I'm going to toss a couple BG in the cage with the RES.
Thinking the RES might start even quicker if they had some company to show them how it's done.
Feed trained RES! Now that would be quite an accomplishment to make your own special strain of fish. Perhaps they would also be more aggressive biters, too.
It would be nice to be able to catch a few of the RES in your pond with a Stubby Steve lure just to check their condition.
Originally Posted by Augie
I hadn't considered that, but it stands to reason. Offspring inherit any number of traits from their parents.
Seems logical that feeding behavior could be one of those traits.

They inherit all of their traits from their parental lines (forefathers & mothers). Lots of proof (studies) that feeding is an inherited trait.

Have had good luck catching RES on crickets ( barely weighted) cast into the feed area when the feeder goes off.
© Pond Boss Forum