I just bought a property and share a pond with the guy I purchased the property from. He dug the pond out himself in 2003. The pond was designed with two coves, about 4-5 feet deep and it goes out about 11-12' by the damn. It is aerated with a large fountain. It does not have a lot of structure in it from what I can tell. I have added a Georgia cube 4x5x4 size out near the damn (where it starts to get to about 6-7 feet deep) and have made five smaller PVC habits that are within 10 feet of the shore. The owner told me it has lots of 5-6lb bass, 8-10lb catfish, and lots of bluegill (I have not found this to be true). He however doesn't fish it, hasn't fished it in years. I think it has been fished maybe six times in past eight years. The pond size is 1.25 acres.

I have fished it several times a week now for a month and started feeding high quality feed and catfish feed (in different spots.) I have only caught 1/2 pound - 1 lb bass, several good sized bluegill, and we have caught a few 3-7lb cats. I don't feel the pond is completely over run with fish. There is two large grass carp in it as well I see when I mow. When I feed the catfish I get 9 to come to surface and eat regularly. They appear to be 3-9 lb-ish in size.

I have noticed seeing small baitfish now up by the shore (Didn't see any for first two weeks). In Kansas City we have had over 17" of rain this month and close to 23" past five weeks. The pond also has several small springs that help keep the water high.

I would like to stock it with more fish, a lot of the time when we throw a worm and bobber out my kids don't get bites.

My thinking was adding at least 100 large bluegill, 10lbs of FHM, and 30 hybrid stripers, 10-20 catfish. (I do plan on feeding purina sportsman and aquamaxx in different parts of the pond.)

I am looking for a place where bluegill can easily be caught by my kids for fun and a place that has ability to have a few 5 lb bass (average or 2-3 lbs), 10lb catfish, and some hybrids that a decent size.

What should I stock? Draining the pond or killing all the fish off and starting over is not an option.

After 13 yrs the pond has stabilized toward maturity. Very likely the original big bass have died naturally; end of life. It is likely the pond is trending toward an overabundance of small bass 8"-12"; common occurrence. It is possible but doubtful there are any large bass present after 13yrs of no proper management that encourages or favors 2-4 lb bass. Likely numerous bass as overabundant predators should be removed so more smaller fish survive and can grow on the pellet food you provide. You want the young of newly stocked BG to survive well and be numerous for the future angler action.

If you add fish make sure they are big enough to not fit into the mouth of the larger common sized bass or you will just be adding expensive fish food. Rule is: 3X smaller for stockers than the larger bass present; example 13" bass then you need to stock 4"BG. IMO adding FHM is a waste of your money. Current bass will eat all 10 lbs of FHM in 2-3 days. Use your FHM money to buy more large BG. IMO I would wait until the new BG have spawned to buy any more predators such as HSB, or remove 3 LMB for every HSB stocked. The few remaining LMB will provide more than enough new 'easy to catch' bass next spring to balance out the fishery or very likely they will add too many new LMbass. Manage them wisely to produce numerous 2-3 lb in the next 2-4 yrs. If I were you, I would be removing every current LMB you catch and replace them with fast growing pellet trained bass (either LMB or HSB) that will quickly in 1-2 yrs become the 2-4 lb bass for your goals.

If you plan to add more catfish, then I would strive to remove all current larger catfish that are now just large nighttime predators and taking up valuable fish biomass space of more preferred fish (BG-LMB-HSB). If you returned the CC you caught, IMO that was a mistake. Catch and release teaches CC to be hook shy pretty quickly and to be hook avoidance smart. You will need to get to be a smarter catfish angler to re-catch and remove them. If you are not eating the CC they IMO are not a big benefit to the overall fishery. Use that CC biomass for better and faster angler action.

I have no problem removing LMB and yes the ones I catch seem to be in the 8-14" range. How many bluegill should I add? I can get 5-6" range for $1.25 a piece, 3-4" for $.55. Should I get red ears as well? I do plan to fertilize the pond and continue feeding the fish the pellet food. The boys like watching the cats come up and feed so I would like to keep a few cats in there. Also I plan on adding more PVC structure for smaller fish, 2 more larger Georgia cubes off the point where the two coves are, and lots of lines of smaller PVC structure extending out to the 8' depth range, and making spawning areas with pee gravel and sand mixed on top of pallets. One hatchery I spoke with suggested 20 lbs or fat head minnows twice a year at $10 a pound. ($400 and they are 80% water!)I know the catfish are feeding on the pellets, can't say I'm seeing bluegill feed on them. I am building a home at this land so it will be easy for me to work on pond. We did catch 6 good sized BG the other night right off the Georgia cube, it has been in the water for only 2 weeks so myself and my 4 year old were very happy.

Thanks for all the advice!

Also, if my catfish eat pellet food will that help in keeping them from eating my blue gill?

I would add the 5-6" BG, also consider some HBG as well. They tend to be more aggressive toward the feed and could help train the other BG.
Tough to say on how many to stock, a lot of variables. By removing some LMB you are adding by subtraction as more BG will survive as you remove the LMB. I would take some length and weight measurements on the LMB and remove as needed based on the relative weight charts.

+1 on adding HSB, they are my favorite fish...fun to catch and to watch feed. They grow fast and fight harder than any other fish.

FHM would be a waste of $ in your current pond situation.

Sounds like the guy who built the pond doesn't fish much, any chance for you to buy the property and have full control of the pond? This way you protect your investment in the pond and if something happens to your neighbor you don't have any surprises in terms of what the new owner wants in the pond.

The same hatchery that told me I needed 20lbs of FHM each Spring and Fall also told me my BG would not reproduce enough to feed the bass population as they would all be eaten when they are less than an inch.

My thinking is he is acting as a salesman and not as an educator for pond management.

As for the land owner of the other part of the pond his only objective is to be able to look at the fountain with his wife from the front porch. He doesn't fish it anymore since his grandkids are out of state. There is not an option to buy his part of the pond.

I also enjoy fly fishing so I would like to be able to catch top water fish with my fly rods.


Should I add:
Wondering if adding 100 5-6" BG is enough
100 3-4" ones as well (they are half the price)
Is 30 HSB too many, too litte? (they will get fed aquamaxx) I found a local retailer.
Add 50 Hybrid BG?
Add Redears?

I plan on removing small LMB right away.
Thanks to you all for your feedback!

You could give Shawn Banks a call and work up a real stocking plan. He's in Polo, MO. I have interacted with his company before and they're top notch.

http://midwestlake.com/

Looks like I am going to stock:
400 3-4" BG
100 Redear
30 HSB
15lb of FHM

Seem right? Will continue to add sanctuary fish structures.

They advised it's better and much cheaper to add the 3-4" size BG vs 5-6" size which are 3x the price.

might be cheaper to add the smaller bluegill but they may just be expensive catfish snacks at that size. Also the FHM will just be wiped out quickly with all those smaller LMB. Maybe put in couple hundred HBG at a larger size , they are aggressive fish, feed train easily and will readily bite for the kids to catch.

DISCLAIMER: I am not a fisheries management expert. I am an amateur with a mature 2.2 ac pond in central MO and I'm very happy with the advice I've received on Pond Boss to achieve my goals.

That said, I think this plan sounds like they want to sell you fish. You have a mature pond and the LMB will quickly eat your 3"-4" stocker BG and all the FHM for little gain. It takes 10# of forage to add 1# of body weight to an LMB -- so your 15# of FHM won't go very far and won't live long enough to reproduce.

I wouldn't buy any fish right now until you understand what's happening with your population dynamics. Before you buy anything, go fishing! Record the species, length AND weight of every fish you catch. Even data from three sessions will help us understand what's going on. I suspect you have too many apex predators (CC and LMB) and the answer will be to remove some of them before adding any fish.

It sounds like your goal is first and foremost to have a lot of action for the kids. Sounds super fun! But it's hard to have big bluegill, five pound largemouth, and ten pound channels in a 1.25 ac pond. There's just no way to have enough forage for all those predators. Additionally, it's hard to manage the fish populations in a way that produces that kind of weight distribution.

If you harvest a lot of BG of the right size & sex and let the LMB overpopulate and stunt, you'll get big (but relatively rare) BG. If you harvest a lot of LMB of the right size, you'll get big LMB and lots of relatively small BG.

Please, give Shawn Banks at midwestlake.com a call and tell him Pond Boss sent you. He sells and delivers fish, too, but he's a real pond management specialist and will help you get the pond you that matches your goals. He's in Polo, MO.

The 3-4" BG may be 1/2-1/3 the price of larger fish, but if only 10% of small BG survive predation 2 days after stocking, versus about 75% of larger BG, your "savings" become a big loss.

Since you are a new owner, I would advise against stocking anything your first year and instead, focus on removing 75-100 pounds of smaller, 8-14" LMB, and any size that looks thin. I'd also suggest fishing with many size hooks and baits, keeping records of sizes and species......all intended to know what your pond and fish health is before tinkering with it. You can throw a lot of money ate a pond, only to create bigger problems

I'd also suggest removing the "large" Grass carp, as they are of little benefit once over 6-8 pounds. I'd also suggest removing you mature CC and if wanting some, stocking 10-12" CC in small numbers (25) and removing around 2#....at 3#+, CC are direct competitors with LMB. If you are catching "large" BG, you have a solid reproduction potential, so the LMB reduction could re-balance forage recruitment into adequate forage sizes.

FHM do almost nothing for a mature pond, as they only feed the smaller, unwanted bass that are overpopulating, so FHM literally fuel a problem and are stocked once, in new ponds to jump start LMB growth.

Curious on why it is that three places I have talked with all say stock some amount of FHM in my pond. They all say it's to keep the bass from wearing the BG out. The range of amounts they say are 5, 10, and 20 lb. Spring and Fall.

All places say don't fertilize either.

If my catfish eat pellets (remember I believe I only have 9 of them) I have read and been told they will leave the BG mostly alone because they like the pellet food and they will be full. Also, they are much harder to catch on a hotdogs or bait.

Any truth to that?

Appreciate all the wonderful info on the site.

They are fisheries, they sell fish! Even if they're not being malicious, they just don't have the knowledge about how to manage fish populations.

You might not need to fertilize depending on what kind of run-off you get, and in a mature eutrophic pond you won't need to either.

Catfish will eat whatever they can fit in their mouths. We need to see some numbers on length & weight to be able to guess what's going on. If you have nine 5-10# catfish they're eating a lot of smaller fish. You might be able to catch them with pellet lures from Stubby Steve.

Attached are typical size BG, the Catfish is one of the biggest if not biggest, That is one of the bigger bass caught

That cat is 6lb 6oz
BG is 3/4 lb

Very nice setting / pond etc..
Looks like a RES/BG cross but very healthy looking.

LB looks thin, and if you are catching numerous in the 1/2-1lb range probably means too many of them. It does however help with raising bigger BG.

Sounds like you want better quality but more opportunity for catching on bobber for the kids.

HBG / HSB / YP / BG would all be good options and they will all feed on pellets and should be easy to target with bobber with worms / shrimp / chicken liver / wax worms etc...

If you don't want to wait I don't think adding some advanced size BG/ HBG / YP/ HSB will hurt.

However, I say advanced size because it looks like you have predators in the pond currently that would do some damage on smaller/normal size. I would try to stock 5-7 inch plus .

You're getting some good advice here and there is a reason that it contradicts the fish sellers. Think about it.

It sounds like the OP's mind is made up the way the fish sellers told him, regardless of advice on this forum. He will learn the "hard way", as many others do. Frustrating, isn't it? I see it all the time on other forums I am on.

In my original pond, only three CC, all look over three pounds, are still coming to pellets. Yet, I continue to catch and keep CC, and the same three come to pellets. The number coming to pellets is no indication of the total population. I suspect I still have about thirty CC of that size in the pond.

That is a beautiful pond!

I'm not frustrated at all -- after all it's his property and a man can do what he wants

In my pond, we manage for big LMB. We remove every LMB shorter than 14" caught by rod and reel. Over the past few years we've had a big turn around in the fish populations to the point where catching a 3-4# bass is not uncommon. And we did it without purchasing a single fish. It would have been faster to remove the LMB (maybe by electroshocking) and then buy large BG, but it wasn't in the budget.

In no way what so ever is my mind made up. I don't mind removing some/most CC. I'm all about removing LMB that are small. Still have not heard an answer about feeding the CC pellets. If I continue to feed them will that help keep them full to prevent my BG from being eaten?

I don't plan on being able to grow a 8 lb bass, that being said if there was a few in there over 4lb that would be awesome! It's a family pond, kids like seeing the CC feed, kids like catching BG, I just enjoy having a pond. I do have constraints like most folks who are married. Wife wnd kids like feeding CC, if I take that away then I have the pond "mine" not the families. I have a 4 year old that likes to catch anything. If it's a 4" BG might as well be a shark because he's excited.

I like getting everyone's advice on this forum, I'd rather learn100x more from reading than to make 1 mistake.

I talked to the guy that built the pond last night (my neighbor) I asked if he ever added structures in the pond. He said no. I did find out he has some drains running into from springs about 70 yards away.

I bought a 14' Jon boat in nice condition with 4 month old minnkota trolling motor and battery yesterday.. Seemed like a heck of a find. Now my Dad and I have ways to expand fish structure possibilities. Like started earlier, he's retired and he likes making them.

We fished last night from the shore with worms and crickets and 3 kids, only got 2 bites and one 6" BG. That's the type of evening I'm trying to avoid, the kids and myself to an extent get bored when there is not fish biting. Just trying to have a fun place to enjoy our evenings with a fishing pole.

I agree on the BG photo being a BG/ RES cross. Love those things....grow large, eat pellets, supposedly equipped to feed on snails, and fight like the devil.

Fished for an hour, removed 1 skinny bass.

All I caught, by hey a start is a start!

I feed my CC pellets still. I have cleaned about 30 or so this summer from 2 to 5 pounds, most just over 3 pounds. I have not found a single bluegill in a CC stomach. This is just my experience in a single pond. I have found pellets, crawdads, and algae, but no fish at all.

Fished tonight after cold front pushed through. Nothing yet again in an hour so we feed the CC. Caught one of them, his belly was size of a baseball full of pellets.

I have fished out 5 LMB small bass. I have been targeting them and yet can seem to catch many of them. I have started to catch lots of BG now, caught 11 of them last Saturday and 12 last Sunday (various sizes for 3/4 lb down to 5". I did stock 600 4" BG in the pond with 10lb of FHM (I did this to help the BG survive) and I am seeing BG everywhere! They are starting to come to the AquaMax starter pellets too. The 9 CC still come to the feed every time and I can catch them easily with bread balls.

The fish population seems to making a fast turn around. As I stated earlier. I never saw a small fish at all for the first month I owned the property. I have been adding fish structures in various spots. I am now seeing lots of 4" BG along the shore, I saw a school of several hundred small 1" fish by the dock, and last night my son took a small net and dipped it in the water and he caught at least 3 1/2" BG each time he dipped it in the water.

I am now catching 12 - 1 BG to LMB ratio when I fish.