I have a small pond on my property. Right now it is the fullest I have ever seen it in the 6.5 years I have lived here (just got out of a very bad drought).

Two things I want to achieve is mosquito control and fun for visiting kids...and me...heh

The pond...it was totally dry. In prior times when it had water, I did see what I thought were crawdads in it...but after reading here, they may be some similar critter. Never any fish since I moved in. One of the prior owners told me he had it full of crappie at one time. My guess would be 10-12 feet deep now. Only 27 yards across. I expect the water level to go down. West side is steep, east side more shallow of a bank, but still pretty steep. Trees around/in the pond. Shallowest where the water comes in. Some frogs and a turtle have already found it.

There is a fish truck coming to town saturday...so was looking at stocking it. I spent the last few hours reading threads, but I know nothing...

I am in Wichita county Texas.

Would love some bass, but don't feel the pond is large enough for that.

Want to get FHM for the mosquitoes, and from what I can tell, the truck will have black crappie, bass, channel cats, BG, etc. I am thinking of getting the crappie. Should I be looking at some BG too? Or instead? Quantity I should be looking at? My understanding is they will be 1-3 inches long. Was thinking of a couple cats, but after reading here, that might be a bad idea...???

I have a few spare deer feeders around, so can set up a feeder if need be.

Look forward to your input.

The way our weather is, it would not surprise me if I lose the pond again in a few years...so not looking at any long term plan for it. Just some catch-and-release for a couple years and mosquito control would be nice.

Thanks,
Sean

Welcome to PBF Boburk!

Lots of Texas guys around here that lived thru your drought. They should be able to offer up ideas for your pond.

Good Luck!

Bill D.

I would probably skip the crappie in a pond that small. I would throw some HBG in there, add 2-3 single sex LMB, and feed sparingly. If it goes dry again you wouldn't be out much, and you could have some fun with it in the meantime.

Welcome to the forum, Boburk!

I'd suggest 10 pounds of Fathead Minnows, 200 Coppernose Bluegill, 100 Hybrid Bluegill and 5 Bass, and if the truck has them, 25 Redear sunfish to control snails/grubs.

I'd avoid Crappie like the plague in a small pond. The mix I suggested (and feeding daily) will give you good LMB growth while the panfish will provide lots of action for the kids next year. The occasional hookup with a LMB, once grown, would be a blast on ultralight gear. It is also a relatively inexpensive mix that can last a good while, or even be easily replaced if another drought hits.

It also would not hurt to add 25 channel catfish IF you like catfishing and will remove them before reaching 3-5 pounds.

Welcome Sean. We have another Wichita Falls guy(Mobilus) posting here. And, my place isn't all that far just South of Bowie.

I would skip the crappie in any water hole less than 25 to 50 acres. In a pond your size, I would really consider hybrid bluegills, maybe 25 channel catfish and a bunch of rain dances.

Excited that two different people think I can get away with a few LMB.

Curious...why the recommendations against Crappie?

Catfish...I don't eat much fish at all. I just used to keep aquariums and that seemed to always be a recommendation... to have a scavenger or two. So, if unneeded, I will skip it.

Rainman, that seems like a lot of fish. Am I going to lose a lot, or do you really think my pond can support that many?

I will probably go with the common recommendations, but was looking at 2 lbs of BHM. Is 10 lbs what I need?

OK...so looking at:

2-10 lbs of BHM (need feedback)
2-5 LMB
200 Blue Gill...advantage of hybrid other than they are slower to reproduce? Why did rainman recommend a mix over just hybrid? 200 hybrid or a mix?
Skip cats?
A few redear bream if they have them.

Am I close?

Thanks for the inputs.

Sean

Dave...you had me googling "rain dance fish" LOL. I am a little slow this morning I guess.

Crappie tend to require extra management and often cause over population problems in a small 0.2 ac pond. They need unique conditions (management) to grow large ones especially in a small pond. Other suggested fish species will provide easier management and better overall fishing esp for the kids. Several fish options are mentioned. Initially I would leave out the catfish or only stock 10-25 in that small of pond. IF you add catfish plan to remove everyone you catch due to the long term problems they can cause.

If larger bass (14"-16") are desired then you will need to have regular Bgill to feed the bass and allow some of them to get bigger than 10". Hyb BG initially grow well esp on pellets and are great fishing for kids and several initial bass 10-20 and their offspring will reproduce and keep HBG numbers well controlled. If you feed the fish pellets the pond will grow more pounds of fish and bigger fish, thus higher stocking numbers can be initially stocked as per suggested above (300 sunfish types). HBG and regular BG (or coppernose BG) was suggested because the BG will reproduce better than HBG and provide more food for bass. Pros and cons to this concept.
HBG tend to be fast initial growers and more aggressive biters thus anglers usually catch more of them compared to regular BG which is why HBG are often suggested for an emphasis for kids fishing ponds.

Since you plan to stock all your fish at one time and not wait to build up a forage fish food base then stock more of the minnows (FHM) (10-16 lbs) to jump start growth of the bass so they as predators provide overall optimum predation of small sunfish.

Since your pond is prone to drought try our Forum fishery ideas and later if you need restock and can spend time here learning more about crappie management, you could try crappie. Growing crappie successfully in small waters is a steep learning curve not really for beginners.

Thanks for the detailed answer Bill.

All in all, a lot more fish than I expected. I was figuring on a couple cats, 2 lbs of FHM for the mosquitoes, and 20-50 crappie or BG. I figured with the crappie being small, they would not go after the FHM for awhile. I liked the idea of crappie because I thought they would be more gamy to fish for than BG and didn't think my pond was large enough for LMB. But after spending time in NC...if my pond will support a few LMB, I like that idea better.

Thanks again,
Sean

Ok...any reason to not stock all copper nose BG? I would think with 2-300 in the pond, the kids would catch some?

If I try to add redear later on, would they just be food for other fish? Or will they eat other things now if there is not a lot of snails yet?

OK...so....
10lbs of FHM
6 LMB
200-300 BG (mix or all copper nose)
0 catfish
0 crappie
A few redear

Sean

If your pond ices over at all then at least mix regular and CNBG. CNBG are not as cold tolerant .

RES eat stuff in addition to snails. They can be stocked at the same time as BG and do fine.

The LMB need to be small 2-3 inches so they won't eat the BG to start.

Looks like the mix of BG is the answer I guess.

Feed...pick it up at any farm store? Atwood's? Tractor Supply? What do I need to look for?

Sean

Boburk, as Bill Cody explained in more detail as to why stocking what, Just get plenty of Fatheads for your LMB to munch on as they grow. The FHM will spawn a lot right away, but as the LMB grow, the FHM will get eaten and disappear. During this time, your BG (or CNBG) will grow and should spawn next year to produce plenty of LMB food in larger sizes. I suggested HBG in your situation and based on wanting kids to have fun fishing....the HBG grow a tad faster than the BG, and are much more aggressive in biting on bait to keep easily bored kids, happy (and "real" anglers, frustrated..lol).

If you are within a couple or three hours of Buffalo, TX, give Todd Overton at Overton's Fish Farm a call....he is a great guy that sells top quality fish!

Later, if wanted, you could even add a few Hybrid Striped Bass for an exciting catch...or even your beloved Crappie once you are more comfortable on how and IF you want to manage your pond more intensely.

Nothing special to look for in the fish suggested other than making sure no bullhead catfish or other unwanted species is obviously mixed in...Take your time acclimating and tempering the fish before finally releasing them into your pond to reduce potential mortalities.

Edit: I misread what to look for in feed.... Bluegill do quite well on 32% protein "catfish" food, but if you can find it, for small fish, use Aquamax 300 or 500 to start and feed what the fish will eat in 15 minutes 2-3 times a day, after they feed aggressively.

Remember also, that a small pond environment heavy on catch and release fishing pressure may tend to produce some hook shy fish. Even the HBG.

Sean, if Bill Cody says it, take notes.

From your description, I'm visualizing about 1/4 acre. Stocking plans should not be at high water levels but whatever is realistic to expect. This year is unusually wet and the past 4 have been DRY. I certainly don't have a crystal ball on North Texas rain. Too many fish creates an oxygen crash and fish die off. I'd think twice about 10 lbs of fatheads. They generally go about 400 per lb and are extremely prolific.

Rex(Rainman) is giving good advice on feed.

You can reduce the BG-HBG-redear number down to near 100 if you are on a budget and expect the pond to be significantly reduced in size by fall-winer. If you are only adding 6-8 fingerling LMbass then you can reduce the FHminnows to 4-6 lbs. If you have never experienced good quality HBG at 9" long they may become one of your favorite panfish replacing crappie or equaling them as desirability. As you remove HBG plan to replace some of them every 1-3 years. They can be lots of fun for all panfish anglers.

I don't know what to expect from the pond Bill. It seems like we are either feast or famine when it comes to rain. Either too much rain or not enough. Our drinking water lakes got down to 20% full. They are at 100% now. I don't expect my pond to stay as full as it is, but I don't expect it to go dry for years either.

Nothing we have talked about is outside of my budget. I have no idea how often the fish truck comes to town. It does not bother me to buy a few pounds of minnows a couple times a year if they are available. Or to have to feed periodically. Feeding twice a day (even with an automatic feeder) is more than I expected.

It would be nice though, to have a somewhat self sustaining pond that just needed an intervention every once in awhile, as opposed to constant maintenance. I know it is small compared to a lot of other ponds I have read about here...so that might be somewhat unrealistic.

I am still mulling it all over, and have been talking to family and friends about the recommendations I have got here. I am excited about the prospect of having a few bass in my back yard.

I tried to contact the company coming to town (stock my pond) through email...asked what kind of fish they are bringing...but have not got a response yet.

Sean

I found this on their website.

The truck will have channel cat, large mouth bass, black crappie, bluegill, hybrid bluegill, red ear bream, and fathead minnows.

Sean

Bo, you could not run fast enough to make me buy my fish off a transit fish truck - UNLESS - I knew them personally and they grow their own fish ..... you never know how long they have had them on a truck or what you are getting unless you have the skill and knowledge to ID EVERY fish..
Worse mistake I ever made on my first stocking a brand new pond..
Others may have differing opinions.
G/

Thanks for the input George. I don't know that I have a lot of other options. Todd Overton is about 4-5 hours away. Not sure his fish would be much better after a 5 hour drive.

I really would be surprised if this pond lasts 10 years without going dry again. So...whatever I mess up now and learn from, I will be able to use that experience when I restock later on. Due to our drought, I do have almost 3000 gallons of collected rain water (and the means to collect more) I could use to keep it going if all goes well.

I was reading a "what's this fish" thread in here where a guy had got some other minnows mixed in with his BHM...that were then reproducing in his pond. But....as long as they eat mosquito larvae, I can live with that.

Sean

Sean, I have hauled Overton's fish for more than three hours and some on the forum have made longer run with no fish loss.
Have you checked with Lusk and some of the other suppliers nearby - Dave Davidson is your area - send him a PM - he is very knowledgable.

The advantage of buying your fish from a known and trusted supplier is that you can build a confidence factor. Most of those fish trucks that show up at your local feed store are out of Arkansas - some good and some bad.
With your limited stocking plan you may be OK and build a confidence factor.

Great news you have a pond full of water - folks in your area have taken a beating - much more than N.E. Texas pondsters.
Ain't rain grand!

Good luck with your program,
George

Boburk,

I haul Overton's fish each year pushing between 6 and 6-1/2 hours before releasing the fish into the pond. I have no issues so 4-5 hours is easily doable. I have even successfully hauled and stocked Rainbow Trout from Overtons to my pond.....

I am about 45 minutes away from the fish truck route but elect to make the 11 hour round trip exactly because of George1 statements....

Just my .02 worth.....

Coupe

Fish can be moved a long way if bagged in pure O2.

Well....my point with worrying about hauling the fish long distance dealt with the comment above about not knowing how long they had been in the truck. I figured the truck made to haul fish would do a better job than me hauling fish. I looked for reviews on the company. 11 total...9 were Max rated high, 2 were Max low rated, but the comments dealt with not showing up at a stop, or showing up late.

I did look at Todd`s website for pricing, to see if I would save the money I would spend on gas by getting my fish there, and found his prices were higher...some close to twice as much. Also didn't see HBG there.

I did get an answer to my query to the company coming here..."I would get about 3# of minnows and it's to hot for crappie but I would just add 25 bass 100 bluegills and if you want cats you can add them too."

I guess I thought there would be more consistency in the recommendations. Though the recommendations against crappie was pretty consistent.

I am all for getting red ear, but out of curiosity, what kind of "grubs" are in water? Grubs I am used to are only yard eating the roots on my grass... If they eat snails, I am all for getting them, just trying to learn.

Thanks again,
Sean

There's more than one way to skin a cat, and there's more than one way to stock a pond. You're going to get a variety of suggestions, and most likely there will be multiple, workable scenarios. Lots of factors to consider, including your goals for the pond, and how much input (work) you're willing to commit to.

Ever filet a fish and see those black specks in the meat, or the yellow "worms" in the fins, and/or in the flesh? That's where your RES can help you out. They consume snails, which are an integral part of the life cycle of BOTH parasites.

Sean,
Overton ' s has quality genetics, quality feed (Cargill - Triton), and other quality products (TH feeders, gypsum, ag lime...etc.). I've bought over 4000 fish from them, and i've lost only 1 because I stepped on it (my fault). They may be slightly higher in price than others, but I believe you get what you pay for...and then some. I email Todd with different questions and issues repeatedly. He always answers my emails. He doesn't try to over-sell you on fish like I hear so many places do. I FedEx pond water samples to him for analysis. I normally get the results the next day. If Overtons is within a few hours from you, who else would you ever need.
Charlie

I hear ya sparkplug...I guess I am a bit OCD (over think everything) and was hoping the decision would be easier.

I am still looking at LMB, BG, HBG, redear, and BHM (if they are on the truck). Just need to figure out the quantity. Thinking 6-12, 100, 25, 25, and 5lbs. I don't mind buying more...just having a hard time picturing 3000+ fish in my little pond. If 10lbs of minnows works, I have no problem buying them. Just more to eat the mosquito larvae...

As I mentioned, I think the pond will be good for a couple years, but do expect mother nature to reset me within 10 years...so hopefully will learn and adjust my goals with the next restock.

Forage...I take it people normally start there first because what they stock multiply by the time they put in the predators. Is this correct? If so, anything wrong with me just adding 3-5 lbs more BHM any time they are available?

Sean

Yes, adding forage first, before the introduction of predators is usually a sound practice. You can add additional forage anytime, but once the predators are established it may be little more than a quick snack.

Sean, if your stocking plan included HBG, it doesn't matter where you buy your fish IMO. I know that there is one of your neighbors thst love them, but I also have a reliable source that tells me they just delivered some of Overton's pure Florda CNBG offsprings recently.

Why would any one stock any other than the very best CNBG genetics in our area. Overton may be higher cost than others - I don't know because I don't shop around. I trust Overton to hatch and grow the best quality fish available anywhere.

He does not sell and will not sell HBG - go for the fish truck if you want inferior fish... IMO...
Best of luck,
George

I agree with George. If you decide you want some HBG, it shouldn't matter where you source them from. Understand the fish and it's needs, and they'll grow large for you, no pedigree needed.

Pound and a half, source was a fish truck:




Another, this one with a relative weight of over 170%



Like most everything else pond related, I believe it comes down to defining one's goals, understanding what's involved in attaining those goals, and diligently working towards making those goals a reality.

Tony, is correct - it all depends,
Our friend Al (FireIsHot) has grown OTS CNBG pushing 2 lbs but he is not into posting photos. I have grown some really large ones prior to our devastating 2011 fish kill, and have some really nice ones currently. Growth rates of OTC CNBG have reached a pound within their first year!

Yeah, it all depends,
George

Those are larger blue gill than I have ever seen in real life.

Sprkplug, I am no fish expert, but those appear to be two different types of fish. The coloring is very different and the pectoral fins seem to be different shapes too. ????? Different sexes?

I take it you two are feeding regularly to get fish that large? How often (is the comment earlier about twice a day, what they can eat in 15 mins the norm)?

Sean

Both males. HBG can display a wide variance in coloration, even from within the same BOW. Some will be GSF dominant, while others will favor a BG, appearance wise.

I can't speak for George's feeding arrangements and schedules, but my fish are fed by hand, once a day. I don't follow a set procedure, but prefer to let the fish tell me how much they want to eat on any given day. And it can vary considerably from one day to the next. The flexibility afforded by hand feeding lets me tailor the feed to the fish, rather than simply dispensing a fixed amount every time.

The trick as I see it, is to get all the feed you can into the fish, not just floating on top of the water. Anything more than that is waste.

Sean, I have been feeding fish for so long I pretty much know how much to feed at various times of the year, always mid-early morning and late afternoon, depending on time of year.

The "how much they can eat in 15 minutes" is a bunch of foolishness as far as I am concerned...

Most folks don't realize how fast those pellets sink and being eaten by HSB - the smaller fish nibble on pellets that blow to the bank ...it all depends on your goals...

G/

They cancelled the truck....

Chin up....that gives you a few more days to ponder your goals, and devise a strategy to achieve results. Use this time to really think about what you want out of your pond. Additional hours spent mulling the pros and cons of various scenarios can only leave you better prepared.

Either that...or plan to make the road trip I have been trying to avoid...

Sean

Hey Sean, There is another truck coming to Wichita Falls (the same place) on Monday at 10:30, if you are still considering that option.

I called Todd...at least the number listed for Todd. I got a female (didn't catch her name). I told her what I have for a pond, and this is what she recommended:

7-8 hybrid striped bass (because they are easier to catch than LMB, and can't breed), 60 CNBG, 12 REB, and 40 Tilapia.

The reason for the tilapia is because they have no FHM right now. I asked her about this (because I heard they are prolific breeders and didn't understand why they would be out). Her answer was that they don't breed their own minnow, they get them out of ARKANSAS!!!! And that breeder is out right now. Anyhow, the tilapia are supposed to breed every 30 days, and die in the winter (so would need to be restocked after winter). This would give the bass something to eat.

When I asked about feeding (told her I figured I was going to have to feed at least for a little while), she said I can, but don't have to. I can get 100 CNBG for the same price of 75...so was thinking about increasing that number...but she had said they and the REB are ready to breed. The only thing I didn't like about the mix was the size of the hybrid bass. I was looking at LMB that were 2-3 inches...because I figured it would be awhile before they start eating everything else. But the hybrids are 8-10 inches...

She said the blue gill would do a better job of eating mosquito larvae than the FHM.

Anyhow, I need to figure out what the house captain has planned for tomorrow and see if we want to spend all day in the truck.

Sean

Thanks ShieTown

Sean, you most likely were speaking with the Overton Boss Lady - I can’t read minds but this is what I think:

7 – 8 HSB ....8 – 10 inches ..first year stocking, following year repeat same numbers and “ladder stock” going forward.
No feed – forage train HSB to target CNBG.

60 CNBG, no feed to control growth and numbers from over population.

12 REB (RES?) for snail control.

40 tilapia for FA control and forage for 8-10 inch LMB that will be over a pound this time next year.

Sounds similar to my past successful HSB/CNBG program.

You may need to stock one LMB in third year.
Sounds like a plan to me.

Good luck,
George

Would it be normal for a fishery to take fish out of multiple tanks and put them in one bag?

Sean

Boburk,

I've never bought any that way...but if a fishery did, I think it would depend on the species, size, and the numbers of each.

Sean, I have never seen it done that way.
Overton will double bag your fish with oxygen and place in a strong oard box, or your own contaiber if you wish.
Good luck,
G/

You mean different species of fish, I'm supposing? Like mixing RES and BG together? ( I wouldn't mind that)

Many years ago I worked in a pet store...and it was taboo. Each tank might have a different PH, temp, etc.

My fish from overton's... bass were in with the tilapia, red ear in with the CNBG. The bass and Redear did not seem to be doing well at release. Only thing I know I lost was a couple minnows.

I was not sure if all the tanks at the fishery were all connected somehow (had the same water) or not.

Sample of the redear I received below. Is it me, or does it not look well (skinnier than the blue gill)?

Sean

Sean,
I can't speak for Overtons, but if I had to guess, because of your purchase numbers, he was trying to save you a few $$$. My experience with fish is, some handle the ride better than others. I just try to get them to my BOW, get them acclimated, and get them introduced to their new ecosystem ASAP. I purchased and stocked CC and BC last Friday from Overtons. Upon arrival at my place, the CC seemed more lively than the BC....my pond temp was 94 degrees, so I grabbed the BC and stocked them in the deep end first...then the CC last...they all seem fine.
Charlie

Guess, I'll have to back up a little - agree with Sparky - I have seen CNBG and RES combined and agree with stickem - "would depend on species, size, and the numbers of each".
G/

I saw some tilapia (at least I think that is what they were} near a cement block in the shallows when mowing this morning. Looked to be chaising each other and picking at the rock. I walked the bank this morning and didn't see any dead floating...

I found different methods for acclimation online. I floated for 15 mins in the shade, then added water to the bags every 15 mins. At the 45 minute mark some seemed to be gasping at the surface (the bass as an example). So...I started releasing shortly afterward by opening the bags one at a time to the pond and letting them swim out..or scouping out with a big mixing bowl so I could look at them and then releasing.

One of the bass hung on the bottom near the dock for a long time before it moved on.

Lots of boatmen in the pond right now, so don't know if they will take pellets or not (I would think they would rather eat bugs than pellets). I will try this evening and see.

Sean

Sean,
If you don't see them feed immediately, don't be alarmed. I stocked CNBG/RES mid - August last year and immediately began a pellet feeding regimen. I didn't see them hit the feed until 3 weeks later...not sure why. Maybe the fish were getting adjusted to their new environment. Just be careful not to introduce too much feed into your pond if it is not being consumed. Uneaten feed decomposing can cause oxygen depletion issues. Once you notice your fish responding to the feeder, you can always increase the amount. I didn't see my fish for months. I saw my first RES a couple of weeks ago.
Good luck,
Charlie

Charlie,

Saw as in caught? Or saw it in the shallow?

I think the pond is probably full of bugs. Lots of mosquito's and dragon flies around...so I am sure their larvae are in there...along with the water bugs. Could that have been what you experienced in your BOW (not eating pellets because they have bugs to eat}?

Sean

Sean,
I never have seen the BG or RES in the shallows. I have seen the BG hitting the pellets during feeding time (and I've caught a bunch). The only 2 RES I've seen were caught on live earthworms. But, I know they are there and growing. The only thing I've seen in the shallows are minnows and recently introduced LMB (chasing minnows ).

RES are more inclined to eat bugs, snails, and other parasites than pellets. I've read some RES have been trained in tanks to eat pelletized food, but that is not common. I'm sure your pond has plenty of natural occurring nutrition for your fish to eat as well as phytoplankton.

OK...25 HBG, and seven more pounds of minnows today...and I am done. Now it's time to wait...threw a dozen or so pellets out yesterday, with no action. I will try again tomorrow.

Been doing a lot of reading, and from what I gather in 4-6 months I could have catchable size blue gill if I can get them to feed.

Sean

cr*p - here comes more rain!

I have been trying to feed about 7-8 at night. Nothing was feeding yet.

Off today, so tried this morning and some were taking feed already. I have some aquamax coming...

Sean

Just an update. First stocking was on the 27th of June. On the 15th, I saw a tilapia with a mouth full of fry. Today I see a bunch of small dark fry by the shore (BG?).

Sean

Send it down here.... No rain in 8 or 9 weeks and none in sight

Sounds like your forage base is beginning to propagate...that's a good thing!