I know smallmouth bass are predominantly northern or cold water fish. I know they can live with lmb. What is the main reason they don't do well down south? I don't even think there would be a supplier down south.Just pondering if I had some in my new 2 acre pond and only 12 ft deep. Would they even survive?

Flame you may find these interesting and/or helpful

Smallmouth can thrive in Texas


Looks like Bob Lusk has tried it...maybe he'll chime in

Bill Cody and TJ (teehjaeh57) are smallmouth experts and will see this at some point and give you some solid advice.

What I can tell you is smallies can definitely survive, and thrive, in southern waters. However, if largemouth are already present, they will outcompete any smallies you add to the mix. Many factors for this. Largemouth can simply eat more than smallies due to their larger mouth gape, have a higher fecundity and I would imagine habitat would also play in their favor too, in Texas.

Chris Steelman also has a smaller turbid pond with SMB in it. Maybe he will share how smallies are doing in his TX pond? SMB were raised in a AZ small pond near Phoenix; both have previously been discussed on this forum. Phoenix pond link:
http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/lake-pond-fish-habitat.html


The biggest feature is to keep out the LMB. LMB always seem to crowd out the SMB when both are in smaller waters. Maybe some other southern members with smallies will provide some experiences. We need more members willing to try SMB with no LMB present. Largemouth can always be added later if the smallies do not perform to meet ones goals.

I have found that SMB are compatible with HSB. Together these two predators would make a dream pond for any angler.

Flame, I wouldn't waste my time on research or especially trying to raise smallmouth bass in the sand/clay areas of East texas.
I know a LOT about SMB, having caught literally hundreds from lake Texoma up to 7+ lbs.
They are found in Lake Texoma on rocky points, rocky shore lines and gravel beds - I know where they live and they don't live or even could survive in the midlake mud and sandy streams.

But if you like to experiment, I can put you on some good spots to havest some SMB good stock from Texoma...
George

It has been shown in the literature that SMB often inhabit the rocky points and rocky - gravel shorelines and deeper colder water because the LMB push & bully the smallies into these less preferred habitats. Smallies can survive in these rocky less productive conditions where LMB often struggle. My experience and stockings have shown that smallies will survive in sand clay bottom warm water ponds if LMB are not present to bully and suppress the SMB. Members here who stock some smallies as the only bass will soon provide extra testimony on this topic. Flame - Please Give it a try and report your results. Inquiring minds want to know more.

The most active fish in my pond in 80 plus water temps were my smallmouth smacking floating pellets! At the same time the bluegill and understandably the yellow perch were off feed.

Bill, you know that I have high regard and respect for you as a scientists and a highly regarded individual, but once again I believe that “conventional wisdom is not always wise”.

“Chris Steelman also has a smaller turbid pond with SMB in it. Maybe he will share how smallies are doing in his TX pond? SMB”.
Why not wait for a report from Chris before encouraging what may be wasteful of time and resources?
I have been at Chris's pond site and know the grology and soil types in this area - if he had sucess in a positive manner I will help othes find SMB brood stock.
Overton would have SMB if there was a market for them.

Having had a successful geoscience career that was education based and advanced by field operational experience, I approach problem solving much differently than most professionals. This operational experience led to several advanced positions in a Fortune 500 company, one of which was Manager of New Technology that gave my team direction to focus on problems at hand.

What does this have to do with SMB – regional application I guess – I grew up in East Texas.

Cheers,
George

My SMB are still sticking around after 5 years of being stocked. Biggest I've seen is around 15-16". I have another pond that I'd like to move them to so I might drain the pond this spring and see what all is left.

Chris--jog my memory please, what kind of forage is present for your smallies??

Chris - Thanks for the testimony; that's great news to hear the smallies are still surviving in your clay bottom Texas pond. Congratulations young man for pushing the envelope for SMB in the south. Keep us advised about your SMB studies in the Texas climate. Aaron Matos' SMB experience in AZ also helps indicate that it is not so much the heat but primarily the presence of the more aggressive LMB that stifle smallie success in ponds. Smallies will even thrive in shallow water weedy conditions that the LMB prefer if LMB are not pushing them out of that habitat.

Bob Lusk's unsuccessful attempt at producing a SMB pond was IMO due primarily to presence of a few undetected LMB in the test SMB pond (see my post on the next page for the article).

Smallies can live with LMB in ponds, but numerous experiences have shown the smallies need to be periodically supplementally stocked as larger fish for the smallies to be present long term (also see below for links to more about this). I've been studying about and working with SMB in ponds for many years and the patterns for success are gradually emerging.

Originally stocked with Fatheads, Golden Shiners, and Redear.

Redear and Golden Shiners are still present. Haven't seen any Fatheads in a while.

Thanks, Chris.
As has been hypothesized in previous threads, water quality rather than temperature may be an important determinant in SMB survival in the south....and possibly forage as well; many of our southern ponds have various sunfish as the primary forage species. I've spent a lot of time watching the SMB in my pond interact with BG and RES--they're just not a preferred forage for smallies in my opinion, though there are a few individuals that will adapt and grow pretty well on this forage base.

Chris your experiences with SMB in TX should help increase your knowledge base and consulting credibility with your fishery business. I have even seen SMB do well in a pond with mongrel green sunfish that developed from long term spawning success of HBG.

Another thing I'd like to add about temps and smallmouth. A few years ago I hatched smallmouth in one of the hatchery ponds. I had to seine them in 90 degree water due to an algae bloom that was getting out of control. Didn't loose a single one, not then or later. I did use salt at 0.5 percent, which I always do, and the holding tank I used at the pond side until I brought them inside was well aerated.

The problem I did have is, although I did grade them, I didn't grade them enough as they were very cannibalistic and ate a lot of their tank mates.

Good new Chris!
Bring me up to date as to when stocked - how many – what size stocked to reach 15 – 16 inches?

Having fished Lake Texoma for ~100 days a year for 20 years and keeping records for some 15, I NEVER caught a smallie in any of the mud/clay bottomed creeks.
Texoma is much better SMB lake than LMB. but I was targeting Striped Bass as primary sport fish.

Thanks,
George

35 were stocked back in November of 2009 at 4-6".

I mentioned in another thread about a customer of mine who has smallies and LMB together in one BOW, and has had success at growing each to large sizes. This person contacted me last fall concerning locating additional SMB as stockers. What Bill wrote here resonated with me, as this fellow indicated pound, to pound and a half fish, as the size he would need.

I think I found some for spring delivery, but had to make a few calls to locate some that large.

If I do my math correctly Chris, your SMB grew approximately 2 inches per year. Is that a typical rate for SMB? Second question, did the SMB spawn in your pond?

How much time?

Haven't seen a SMB fingerling and I usually throw the cast net several times a year to see what I can catch.

Can smallies and HSB co-exist in a pond pretty well together?

Thanks Chris, my chart calls for a 16 inch SMB to weigh ~2.3 lbs.
Would you call that optimum growth for a 5 year old SMB?
What is your answer to Flame's question?
Interesting subject.

Did you ever dig your well?
George

Yes!

How 'bout in a record heat wave drought ridden East Texas pond?

Perfect for bullheads!

Bullheads, green sunfish, tilapia, and probably the infamous "green carp" (aka LMB) would do well in "How 'bout in a record heat wave drought ridden East Texas pond?". Actually truth be known, the HSB are likely less tolerant of Texas pond waters than SMB. HSB are stressed when water gets really warm in TX which is why they tend to not grow as large or live as long in far southern pond habitats compared to the HSB in more northern states than TX. Big waters in Texas usually have some deeper cooler waters which will provide HSB some cooler water refuge areas during the heat of summer.

Thanks Omaha.

I have one pond with no LMB in it...there are bluegills and few cats.

I guess I could try smallies in there..but it looks like George
may be right...I don't see anyone selling smallies in Texas.

Bill my friend - you got it right!
But it's not the fish in the fight - it's the fight in the fish!

Zep - Smallies will struggle with BG as the main forage fish. In most ponds with SMB as the main predator, the BG will generally overpopulate unless you remove numerous BG by some other means than predation by SMB. Catfish larger than 16"-18" can prey on BG.

Some members have bluegill in with their smallies, but they also have other teeth helping, like wipers and walleyes.

Ok Bill thanks.
What is the best forage for pond smallies?

SMB like crayfish far more than LMB. A pond stocking strategy aimed at SMB should include crayfish in my opinion. I would also look at stocking grass shrimp.

As far as forage fish, the classic FHM would be the back bone to start out. However, after the SMB successfully reproduce the FHM will likely disappear from the pond. When you see FHM numbers starting to dwindle, I'd stocked 5 pounds per acre of larger brooder sized GSH. RES can be stocked as an alternative forage as well with the added benefit of snail control. If you can source LCS, they would likely be an excellent forage choice for SMB as well. When Chris drains his pond, he'll have to see if any of his LCS survived.

Other far less conventional species which I think make excellent forage for SMB include RBS with the added benefit of an additional panfish to catch. Banded killifish would also be an excellent choice. Orangespotted sunfish would be a possible forage option. These species are viable options for Texas waters. More northern ponds have further unconventional species as options.

FOOD for THOUGHT I love catching smallies. they fight and fight. A 4 lb small mouth is a handful of "GET THE NET". Now all that being said, I would love to stock some smallies in my 3.52 acre pond with 11 to 12 foot water depth. Pond location is N E Texas. With that being said, I am stocking 10,000 TFS asap, prior to their spawn. I already have 120 pounds of fatheads and spawning is coming up in the next few weeks. The pond has CNBG and RES. Crawfish are going in real soon (80 lbs), and yes, I am trying to stock grass shrimp. So plans are to stock LMB and HSB but I am wondering if the smallies would feast on the TFS? What if I substituted the HSB with the smallies? I understand I might not get a spawn with the smallies. But I know I will not get a spawn with the HSB. So lets just call that same, same. I have restock maybe yearly for maintenance, and I might have to do the same with the SMB. And what about aerating, how would this effect the smallies, would this improve the possibility of a SMB spawn?
Thanks
Tracy

Tracy, I don't think it's quite that simple. HSB fill a different niche than SMB, so simply substituting them would not have the same effect. Smallies still relate to structure, while HSB are more pelagic in nature, roaming open water. Because of this, in the presence of LMB, I would give HSB a better chance of being successful.

I would throw the HSB and SMB in there and not the LMB if your heart isn't absolutely set on LMB. You can always add them later.

TGW1 - I agree with esshup. Realize that when you add LMB in with the SMB, the SMB will disappear after only a few years (see below). I will look for the Dr.Willis PBoss reference for this(now below). If it were my pond, I would "do" the SMB and HSB plan with your mentioned forage, then after 4-8yrs if you don't like the results then add your LMB. Can we assume you have more ponds than this new 3.52 ac pond? If the LMB are already in the pond, IMO you are going to need George1 to help you get some adult smallies out of LK Texoma. Stocking fingerling smallies in with LMB will IMO be a waste of money.

Dr. Willis quote from:
http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/stocking_smallmouth_bass.html
"What about smallmouth combined with largemouth bass? Start with "traditional" advice from fishery biologists. Do not try to manage a pond both largemouth bass and smallmouth bass. These two species don't play well together. Once largemouth bass gain entry to a pond or small impoundment with existing smallmouth bass, largemouths quickly out-compete smallmouths. Whether this occurs through competition between the two predators, or the more piscivorous largemouths simply eat most juvenile smallmouths produced, is not known. I suspect both.
While working in Kansas, I observed two such occurrences where largemouths gained entry to a small water body being managed with smallmouths. In both cases, I was astounded how quickly smallmouths disappeared. In a couple of South Dakota scenarios, results have not been quite as dramatic. In both cases, smallmouths actually hung on in low numbers, and did not completely disappear. However, largemouth bass now make up a big majority of black bass in these ponds." From:
What about smallmouth combined with largemouth bass? Start with "traditional" advice from fishery biologists. Do not try to manage a pond both largemouth bass and smallmouth bass. These two species don't play well together. Once largemouth bass gain entry to a pond or small impoundment with existing smallmouth bass, largemouths quickly out-compete smallmouths. Whether this occurs through competition between the two predators, or the more piscivorous largemouths simply eat most juvenile smallmouths produced, is not known. I suspect both.
While working in Kansas, I observed two such occurrences where largemouths gained entry to a small water body being managed with smallmouths. In both cases, I was astounded how quickly smallmouths disappeared. In a couple of South Dakota scenarios, results have not been quite as dramatic. In both cases, smallmouths actually hung on in low numbers, and did not completely disappear. However, largemouth bass now make up a big majority of black bass in these ponds."" end quote.


LARGEMOUTHS & SMALLMOUTHS IN THE SAME POND? Dave Willis explores his experiences and advice about feasibility of co-habitation of SMB & LMB in small ponds. In the article Dr Dave studied a 1.7 ac gravel pit pond with only SMB. A high water event introduced LMB into the pond. After just 2 yrs, largemouths comprised 80% of the bass numbers. After 8 years a few adult smallies remained and after 10 no SMB could be collected. Dr Dave concluded that some SMB can be maintained as bonus fish long term by periodically stocking some subadult to adult smallies (8"-12") to "spice up" the pond. Source: Pond Boss Mar-Apr 2005, Vol 13(5): 24-25.

More SMB info: "Talking Points of SMB" - by Willis & Cody
http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/smallmouth-talking-points.html

Here is the PBoss article that described the results of Bob Lusk's attempt at stocking SMB into his mini-pond.
http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/smallmouth-pond-lusk.html

What about spotted bass? From my reading, they are supposed to fight more like SMB, have a mouth size in between LMB and SMB, and compete well with LMB (maybe too well).

Could SPB be an alternative to SMB?

Or maybe the "Guadalupe bass" which is found only in Texas
and has been named the official state fish...but I think
they prefer rivers and streams.

https://tpwd.texas.gov/huntwild/wild/species/gdb/

One thing I find interesting about this thread is, there are lots of posts about SMB disappearing when LMB are present in the same BOW, but no posts on MMB being the outcome. Do MMB occur naturally, vary rarely naturally or only in the lab?

Cody Note: MMB = meanmouth bass (LMBxSMB)

Bill, you might have to come to my place and see if any are in the pond. The majority of my LMB are female, and I have both sex SMB in my pond.......

Flame, I think we can put SMB in our E Texas ponds as I read the information here. Dr. Willis says we can, if we add some as a bonus fish, and we would have to restock some, maybe yearly. That is what I think I was asking. Would the TFS and the craws sustain the SMB. I am a LMB guy and the HSB are just for the bonus, and after reading about Chris and his SMB. We might have to grab George on the way to Texhoma, and bring back a few nice ones to put in the pond.

Hey Tracy and Flame - welcome to the the "crazy club" - "I am Chairman of the Board" - I'll tell you where you an catch some pre spawn SMB if you won't tell any one..

But I got a secret, I grew a 2 lb Camelot Bell LMB in 8 months and Chris raised a 2 lb SMB in FIVE years... LOL



Hey, great time at the PB Conference "Icebreaker" last evening.
Fantastic bunch of folks and more best friends thn I can count on fingers and toes!

Best personal regards to you guys,
George

It's happened, but it's unlikely, simply because the two species prefer different spawning habitats. I have dreamed about a small body of water where both species are sexed and added and the habitat is such that both prefer it. Someday someone will do this and it'll be amazing.

I wonder if part of it is also folks just don't know a MMB when they see one...not sure I would!

Definitely some truth to that. Not sure I would either.

""Would the TFS and the craws sustain the SMB."" Those forages would be good for feeding SMB if the LMB do not keep the forage density too low for adequate feeding by the SMB. Remember LMB are quite prolific and can over populate the resource. If I was add stocking SMB into a pond with existing LMB, I would remove 3-4 LMB prior to every new SMB added. LMB will quickly repopulate. Remember that competition from LMB impacts survival of SMB.

If you are moving SMB into an established habitat I suggest that you select those in the 9"-13" sizes because they will survive transport easier and likely be more adaptable in the completely new habitat.

Bill, I would also make sure the SMB that I stocked were pellet trained SMB.

hay there George, thanks for sharing the secret I also saw something similar. But I was thinking that when my cnb jumpers are a couple of #'s, I might slip in a couple of the smallies for the fun of it
Tracy

Ok Guys, here is a question about stocking SMB in with LMB.
My Jumpers lmb will be going in as fingerlings in June. Environment will be a fairly heavy stocked forage. I hope to see the same growth of my LMB as George 1 had/has, with his 2 lb lmb. By Fall/2015 I hope to see some 14" LMB. If a fishing trip in Oct for SMB and the same size SMB to existing LMB were to somehow be transported back to the pond, lets say 10 smb, I would think they might take hold because the smb would be a young smb and might adjust to the pond. Would they lose wt, would they adjust, and if 10 fish, would 5 be female? Would the smb help to control the over population of the lmb fry the following spawn? What u thinking?
Tracy

TGW1 - IMO 1."I would think they might take hold because the smb would be a young smb and might adjust to the pond". Adjusting. The newly stocked smallies should initially compete enough to survive since they are 'going in' as larger individuals and the LMB are still smaller at 12"-14". However the second year when LMB reproduce and initial stocker LMB become an increasing larger presence at 15"-18" expect the smallies to struggle more because forage items will be in shorter supply. LMB will be controlling all the better forage areas. In 2nd year, existing LMB with new young bass are now well outnumbering the SMB. Each succeeding year the outnumbering becomes increased. Your SMB will truly be the rare bonus fish. The extra stress of behavioral competition from LMB toward SMB may also shorten their life spans.

2. Growth. "Would they lose wt, would they adjust, and if 10 fish, would 5 be female? "I think your transplanted SMB will do well to grow 1" per year due to predator competition. Remember this is a small space compared to where they came from. Plus the number of LMB per acre is very likely higher in the new habitat compared to the smallies home location. Fishes tend to be more crowded pond habitats compared to lake habitats. Anybody's guess will be good as to number of males and females for every 10 individuals. I would never expect SMB to complete a successful nesting experience in a pond with LMB present.
When I searched literature for my 5 PBoss articles about growing SMB in ponds, most information indicated the male and female SMB grew at similar rates.
http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/growing-smallmouth.html

3. Don't count on the SMB to affect the LMB recruitment because I think the LMB will have the smallies intimidated into marginal spaces where competition is low. In smaller habitats, I think the LMB are pretty nasty playground bullies to the SMB.

Other members with LMB and SMB in the same pond are very welcome to share their experiences of how both perform together. Remember to provide the size of your pond and about how many of each bass specie that you have.

If I still had aquariums I would set one up with a LMB and a SMB, both juveniles about 7" long. I would then document their daily behaviors for about a month.

Bill, I belonged to a fishing club in Ohio for many years that had a 22 acre lake stocked with both LMB and SMB. It was near the highest point in Ohio so the climate resembled central Michigan. And it was quite deep in most places, with some spots over 30 feet.

SMB did well for a while, though they were never as numerous as LMB. Indeed, I caught close to a 4lb SMB one time while fishing for BG with a live redworm. Spectacular fight on light tackle.

But after 5 or 6 years, SMB gradually went into decline. After about 10 years, they just about disappeared. LMB outcompeted them, plain and simple.

Don't know if this is helpful, but that was my experience.

anthropic -All past information is good information. A 22 ac pond which provides some deep extra habitat locations can be helpful for helping in keep the smallies around a little longer. Your experiences with SMB & LMB together are similar to others. To maintain numbers the SMB usually need to replaced when old adults die out.

Thanks for the comments guys. After reading Dr Willis comments I will agree with you that over time the smb will die out, or be caught out. In either case Bill I agree, but maybe a pipe dream here, but I was thinking if a small amount of smallies were added to the mix at the same sizes as the lmb as yoy with a pond with new forage of all types they might grow. They will never grow like the lmb but maybe they might show some growth that I might be proud of as a bonus fish. What the heck. if I do this next fall I will report the findings. Call me hard headed
Tracy

Perhaps the best plan might be:
Stock smallies first, and have them set up shop for 1-2 years, eating eating eating. Say in a 1 acre pond drop 30 smallies.

1-2 years later, when smallies are at least 12-14" in size, stock largemouth bass fingerlings 4-6" in size. Say in that 1 acre pond drop 10 largemouth bass.

You now have 30 smallies (forget about any spawn and mortality for argument sake) twice as large as the largemouth, and three times as abundant.

Maybe the size _and_ the pack mentality / territorial pissings would slow the largemouth takeover to a period of years.

?

Best of luck, TGW1! I love SMB, their jumping is spectacular. You might also look into providing forage better suited for them than for the LMB.

Our experience with LMB and SMB reflects what has been said above.
We bought the place with 1/4 ac pond in 2009. Former owner said all sorts of fish were in it including LMB, YP, GC which we've seen, and BG, CC, BCP which we did not catch nor see.
LMB were fry, 3 to 4" fish and a few adults in 10 to 14" class. No fish in between 4" and 10". YP were most common at 6 to 8" and a few 10". Incredibly high crawfish population with them visible at all times. No vegetation; mud bottom.
Pond is irrigation water fed from Dolores River, a trout stream. Water is available from April to October, then shut off. Very little surface runoff in this arid high country of sw Colorado. Pond is 9 feet deep maximum then loses depth to about 5 feet throughout the winter until the irrigation water returns in late April.
I've been culling LMB as the years go by, trying to get fewer mouths to feed.
As the reservoir on the Dolores has SMB, it's been no surprise that a few SMB have come down through the irrigation pipe over the years. These are little guys-4" fish. I added 18 SMB in the 7 to 10" range, a few at a time, over the first 3 years of our pond ownership.
Although there appear to be no LMB large enough to eat the adult smallies, these larger SMB, while visible and catchable (always C & R), have dwindled or disappeared. Last summer I only caught 1 SMB; previous years I would see and catch several.
Our home overlooks the pond ( I know, it's time that I post pictures-my bad) from 75 feet away. We have observed only 3 dead fish in the 5 years we've been here, all LMB, 2 small, and 1 (16")with eyes bigger than his stomach, who choked to death on a 9" YP! Once in a while a GBH visits; no mink or otters, so really no predation on the bigger fish.
Pond is now loaded with Elodea. I clear fishing paths at times.
All this rambling is to say the SMB that we've had seem to disappear over time. The LMB prolly are pushing them out of the better foraging areas and reducing their efficiency at finding food. Nearly every LMB I clean has crawfish in its gut. There is only a fledgling population of BG, introduced last summer. I'm hoping for a spawn this next summer. Water temps are not warm enough for BG to spawn repeatedly throughout the season. We successfully over summer RBT and BRNT.

Whew! Too long of a post, but then I like to talk about ponds.

Here's an unrelated question for all. We purportedly have 200+ ponds in this county-Montezuma. Now one pond owner I've ever met has heard of Pond Boss. I've never read a post on this forum from someone else living in this area. What mechanisms exist to spread the word around here about the advantages of managing one's pond with help from Pond Boss? People don't seem to get that with a bit of management, their ponds could suit them a lot better than they do now.

4C

I'm intrigued by your report, and also very glad you are chiming in and hope you do so more often! We have scant input from anyone West of Nebraska, KS, OK. TX - and that needs to change. I have historically attributed that lower geographic representation due to more arid regions, less available water for ponds, in addition to presence of many rivers and mountains which understandably draw people's recreational focus away from private ponds. That certainly could be part of the puzzle, but maybe we're just not reaching folks out there, somehow.

In regards to reaching members: Pond Boss brochures at one time existed for the sole purpose of spreading the gospel and getting others involved in water stewardship. We would leave these at local Coops and farm related stores which sell fish food and acreage owners [likely pond owners] frequent. This still may be an option for you, I will call the office and let you know.

Otherwise, word of mouth seems our best marketing method, albeit a slower mechanism. Since forum membership is free, and routinely saves pond owners thousands in management advice while helping owners to finally reach their goals, I think everyone is grateful once they find the forum. Of course, we collectively benefit from learning about unique challenges and characteristics of new regions - and the opportunity to make new relationships is also a bonus.

So...what are your goals for your fishery?

Tracy - good meeting you at the conference. Per our chats, I strongly encourage you to launch the SMB experiment, and you're getting great stocking strategy advice here by allowing the SMB to gain a foothold prior to stocking LMB. Worst case scenario you can always supplementally stock adult SMB from Texoma to keep the population viable.

Have you considered simply making it a SMB fishery, and see if you truly miss LMB before stocking them? You can turn a SMB fishery around in a hurry by stocking a few LMB...just saying - you can't go back once you start - might be cool to see if you can live without the LMB. Just an idea.

Cody note: HSB would also be a good fish to add in with the SMB since both do well and get along well together even when both are pellet trained.

TJ Note: Can't believe I forgot to suggest - thanks Bill. Tracy consider stocking HSB with SMB and see if you really miss the LMB at all. I own such a fishery and it's an absolute blast, and manage several for clients and they are all very happy with their decisions. If you miss your LMB, walk 1000' in any direction in TX and you can probably fish to your heart's content for all the LMB you can handle. If you wanted a truly unique piece of Canada in TX, you could also experiment with other northern species, like WE and YP. Both would require supplemental stocking to keep populations viable, but YP aren't expensive and WE numbers wouldn't likely be too high. I believe Sauger or even the Saugeye may be more tolerant of higher water temps, just not certain of their availability commercially. You could also consider utilizing Muskie in your fishery...they are the most tolerant large Esox species of warm water IIRC and might make it down there, you know, as a "destroying your light tackle drag screaming" surprise. If you're unhappy, stock some CNBG and LMB and revert your fishery to a more traditional TX fishery.