I know it can't be done, so no need to tell me that. Instead of hearing why it can't be done, I'd like to hear the creative answers of how it could be done.

I have a 1/4 acre ground water pond that is aerated and fed. I can devote about an hour of time per day to managing it if needed.

With that information out of the way, lets say I wanted to add YP or even... wait for it... crappie to the pond for table fare. I currently have a reproducing BG population (first spawn is this spring) 5-6" bass and 5-6" HSB. I have the ability to adjust populations pretty easily, to include adding larger bass if needed.

So how do you make this pond work with crappie and or YP. I want table fare sized fish. It doesn't have to be a ton as I don't eat a ton of fish.

I'm asking all of this because a flood ruined my original goals for the pond last year and I'm still trying to discover it's purpose.

So what would need to be done in order to make this work?

There's nothing that can't be done if you want to spend the time doing it. I'd get a good population of minnows started, and make sure I had plenty of structure in the pond for them to hide in. You'll probably need about 20% of the surface acreage in cover that has smaller spaces that will allow the minnows to hide but keep predators out.

I'm saying that if you want Crappie. If you just want to put YP in there, then you won't need as much cover because you can get pellet trained YP.

I wouldn't add any larger LMB or HSB until I had the YP population established. Search on here, Bill has given good advice on stocking sizes of YP. Once they are in the pond, I'd make sure I could half-as.ed reliably tell the difference between males and females. If you only harvest the largest YP, you'll most likely be harvesting only the females and you want a few left to spawn, unless you don't mind buying larger YP every year to replenish the fish that you remove.

That's a fair point about the YP. I think through all of this I've convinced myself that you can't screw up a 1/4 pond beyond repair. I'm only on my first full year of the pond though so maybe I just haven't experienced the over populating that some of these fish can accomplish.

Look at it this way. You are the top-of-the-line predator. Unlike predator fish, you know what fish to remove and what to leave. They just eat whatever is closest and what fits in their mouth. It's your pond, go with what you want to do, and if it doesn't work to your liking we can help get it fixed!

Just remember patience. Fish can't grow from fingerlings to 12" in one season (well not usually ).

Just supplement with some HGH right? That should get them to 14" in a year

Luckyseven I have been reading a great deal about crappie. My original plan was to stock yellow perch with black crappie. I would be the alpha predator to them until I could not then in would go the walleye.

I started off with a good 400 pellet trained perch in a pond with lots of good minnow growth and fatheads. Perch took to the pellets well and gave the minnows another year or two to really populate. There is little to no places for them to hide. About 5-10% cover.

I really want to add in the black crappie and are still going to wait till I am more confident in adding them. I have been spending more time looking at where people are from when they post about crappie. I think there maybe ok in Northern ponds. I can get my hands on stockers quite easy but a supplier that has them also want to sell you large mouth bass.

So it is really tuff to do what you want when one is saying ya go ahead is not a problem. Then the next is no no never add crappie. Then sure add them and if you have a problem we will sell you some large mouth to control them. But I don't want large mouth bass.

What sucks is putting 5-10 years into a pond and ending up with a stunted bunch of what ever fish in them.

I don't try to know it all but do my best to read as much as I can and make an educated guess from all I can read. Really talk my self into growing a set of balls to try something.

Cheers Don.

Don, are the Black Crappie pellet trained?

It seems like this crappie talk is a catch 22 to me. If crappie spawn so much that they can take over a pond and sunt then it would seem to me if you had LMB in your pond with them it would control them plus the crappie are fish eaters also so they would eat them too. And if you had BG as well and we all know how much they spawn you would think it would work just fine, but I have always read and been told it won't work unless you have a pond 15 acres or bigger.

1. Could someone please explain why a Crappie, LMB and BG pond wont work?

What happens in this scenario? Too many predators and not enough food to go around? Or what?

RC

RC, I caught this in April, 2012 just after I moved here (and knew NOTHING about ponds) and was pretty excited that I was catching not only LMB but BCP as well. Pretty cool!



Fast forward two years: I'm nearing 2000 BCP at 6-8" that I've pulled from the pond just since April of 2013 (4-6" back then). And remember I had a fish-kill in June of 2012 elminating all but BCP YOY that I'm aware of.

Here's what I think they've done and are doing in my pond; They spawn first, they're aggressive feeders feeding on the BG (and LMB?) eggs & YOY which leaves little chance for BG YOY survival for the LMB to feed on and they escape predation due to their non-fusiform shape. By the way, they're also eating pellets!

So yeah, too many predators and not enough food to go around. And just think if those 2000 BCP were still in the pond and getting ready to spawn again, let alone how many are still in there? What would next year and the year after bring, and what kind of growth could I realistically expect from my LMB? I might end up with a pond so riddled with BCP having a body shape that predators can't consume (LMB and HSB) that at some point the pond would have to be rotenoned to get rid of them. Not good!

This is just my take on where I think my pond would be headed without aggressive culling of BCP now. Could proper management allow BCP, LMB, and BG to co-exist? Maybe so but I'm witnessing first-hand how it could get out of control in just a few years, in my particular pond.

So for me personally, I really, really wished they weren't in there!

LL,

Ok that makes a litte more sense now! Thanks, Would love to have BC in my pond but am not gonna do it. From what I been told nice large BG taste just as good? I am not sure about that as I have never had any bluegill on a plate. Believe that or not! That is fixing to change though this weekend. We have 7 in the freezer and were gonna grill them up Saturday night! So I'll get my first taste of some CNBG.

Thanks for your info LL I apprecaite it!

RC

I am starting to wonder of the YP are the reason for local control. Perhaps since the perch reproduce first, the fry can mature fast enough to keep the BC(P?) fry under control and the numbers limited.

I am thinking the same thing. I stated in another post that the yellow perch spawn at 45-55*f and the black crappie spawn 57-67*F. If the yellow perch can feed heavy enough on the plankton and avoid pre spawn feeding of the crappie I think they could be managed with perch.

If enough plant coverage in the pond the crappie would have to spawn near plants that the perch could hide enough to sneak in for a free lunch of freshly spawned crappie eggs.

Cheers Don.

Something to think about.

BC are shaped more like a BG than a YP. I don't know off the top of my head how fast the BC grow, but with the smaller gape size of YP I think the BC will soon grow to be too large for the YP to eat.

Esshup here BC grow to around 3" in the first year and to around 9" by end of year 2. I would think an adult YP could probably eat a BC for the first year of life.

Tums:

Can you catch 1" to 3" BC and measure their height? I can catch some good sized YP and measure their mouth gape to see how large of a BC they can eat.

But, take a look at what Cody has to say, especially about the area of the pond that the adult YP/WE and YOY BC inhabit.

Bills post at 9:14 pm today

Really sad I haven't been back to this thread in a few days.

I know in our area that the YP will spawn before the BC do. At least in the wild. Pond scenarios are different I'm sure. I feel as though my situation might be a little bit different than other people because I do have a decent amount of time I can dedicate to managing this pond. I could buy stocker BC, YP and LMB, but I can pretty readily catch all species and transport them back to my pond with 5 minutes of travel time.

I think I'm going to end up slowly stocking the BC as I catch them and just see what happens. I've dealt with heartbreak on this pond already and I'm over it. I don't think I would care if this ends up not working in a few years.

That being said. If I have LMB at 6", BG at varying sizes (along with PS and a few RES). How many (and what sizes) of YP/BC would you add to a 1/4 acre pond. I want to start low and see how they develop.

I just called my supplier and I could potentially buy 2-3" YP, 2-3" crappie (by the 100) or 4-5" crappie per fish.

I can routinely catch small YP and BC in varying sizes.

If I want table fair size YP and BC, is it best to let them establish themselves before stocking predator sized bass? Or, if I went the route of buying stockers. I could buy 2-3" lmb stockers as well.

HSB are not out of the question here either as I actually have a few small ones in my pond already.

Well, I only caught 1 in the trap and it was 3.75" long and was right at 1" in height.

I'll chime in here, having gathered some BD and gape data.
The literature seems to say a 3.75" BCP would be 1.5" in BD. A 3" BCP around 1.2". So yours is a bit slim vs others.
The literature for YP gape showed a 9-10" fish would run a 1.5" gape. A 6-7" YP runs about 1" gape. However, measurements provided by Esshup and Cody indicate even a 12" YP only had gapes of 1.2-1.3". Their fish had a 1" gape at 9-10" length.

So for real fish measurement, your 3.75" fish would be eaten by a 9.5-10" fish in Cody or Esshup's pond. By literature, a 3" BCP would be eaten by a 9" YP. Not much more than 3.5" long, a BCP will be safe from any normal YP.

Lucky7 - keep us advised as to your progress. We all can learn from your 'crappie challenge'.

Bill,

As much as I want to start this adventure, I still would like some stocking advice. I dont want to just throw a random number of mature fish in and hope for the best. I mean... I kind of do, but I'd like to give the pond the best chance. I dont want to add mature LMB until next year to give the YP and BC a little bit of a head start.

But I dont even know if that's a good idea or not.

YP are delicious, but I have to admit I've never understood why so many folks enjoy eating Crappie. BG far superior flavor, in my opinion. Heck, I even enjoy a small LMB more than Crappie!

Lucky7, I am a mere amateur at this, but from what I've heard BC compete with LMB for the same forage due to mouth size. Also, they tend to spawn first, resulting in overpopulation as LMB do not predate well on them.

I have heard that HSB sometimes do well controlling BC, better than LMB. Of course, they are a put and take proposition in a pond.

I do enjoy both YP and BC. I like BC I think because of how easy they are to clean compared to a BG. I think it's the bigger fish with no little rib bones in it for me.

Maybe I'll just continue adding YP as I catch them for now and let that group of fish get established.

If BC are only get 3" in one years growth, why can't the LMB control them in a pond scenario that is LMB heavy(stunted) just like in a trophy BG pond?

Everything I keep reading suggests that they would be able to. However the BC are likely to eat the LMB fry and eggs so its hard to keep the LMB population going. I could be wrong, but that's what I've gathered so far.

But it also said that BC are unpredictable in their spawn, and every once in a while the LMB should be able to pull off a spawn of their own because of that(I would think)..... Or is it the larger BC that will keep the LMB from spawning successfully?

Second thought is, when there isn't a spawn of BC that would keep the LMB heavy pond fed, might a person add tilapia that year to help keep their numbers going for future years of controlling BC spawns?

I personally have no problem supplemental feeding if I need to (FHM are dime a dozen).

I think I would just personally have a hard time telling when the fish had a successful spawn which could cause me more problems than anything.

Like I said earlier, ultimately this is only a 1/4 acre pond. You would have a seriously hard time convincing me that I could not control the population of a specific type of fish if they were to get out of control. I have a small child and time to fish. I think we could put a hurting on a slot of fish if absolutely needed.

Something else I did not think about. Should I try getting some sort of shiner population going? The fish place I routinely go to has Silver Shiners that I could stock.

If FHM are a dime a dozen how many dozen make a pound? And it takes 10 pounds to put 1 lb on a LMB.. Seems like alot of dimes and dozens and such almost like a weird riddle..

BK you crack me up! Wish I lived closer to you would love to visit and chat over a cold one!

I think though FHM are more like a buck a dozen around here...

Fair enough point BG. I'm growing them (even though it's my first year trying) and they seem to be reproducing pretty good. You're right that they do actually cost a little more than what I'm making them sound like.

The shiners I don't have room to grow any extras though. So if I were to add a shiner, I'd be hoping to establish a population at this point.