I've been asked to stock a pond that was recently built in June/July. Its almost full already, and 8-11 ft deep, just abou t 2/3 acre. We've stocked about 200 various aged BG this summer, and they are doing well. The plan it to add LMG next June.

I read that Yellow Perch will not do well in a pond with LMB - because even the larger ones could become food soon enough. For this reason, I did not put any in, though I would like to.

My question is would stocking YP now with th BG be detrimental to the BG in any way? I'd like to stock them anyhow, knowing that eventually they will be few and far between - that way maybe the kids could enjoy them for a few years until the LMB are
larger.

The goal of the pond is to have really decent sized BG and enough bigger LMB to get the kids exited about catching a "big" fish, heck me too! But........ if putting in YP would put this goal at risk, I wouldn't do it.



Thanks all - I appreciate any advice.

FH

BG normally outlast YP in a pond with LMB - due to the bass-preferred forage shape of YP, and (probably) higher BG fecundity - so I'd say go ahead and put those YP in.

The Yellow Perch is both a predator fish and a forage fish at the same time.

I have a regenerating Yellow Perch population with plenty of LMB also. No issues as far as I can tell.

With abundant LMB, recognizable by most (say 80%) being 12 inches or smaller, the bass keep both yellow perch and bluegill in check, and we get nice sizes on both of the panfish. I guess I would define nice as over 8 inches for bluegill and over 10 inches for yellow perch.

Thank you for the advice -

I'm trying to get some minnows in first -
So far two places are out of FH minnows. One place close by has Emerald Shiners at $8.00/lb - I'm thinking this might be good perch food over the winter if they are small enough.

FH

F-H Here's Emerald Shiner: http://www.cnr.vt.edu/efish/families/emerald.html

It will not cause noticable problems if YP are stocked now. Bass should keep YP from becoming overabundant and after 4 yrs BG should out number YP probably at least 7:1 or higher.

Emerald shiners are not pond raised species and will not bring off a successful new batch of shiners but they will provide forage. FH may be available latter in fall. Double check with suppliers about this. Ask about source of emerald shiners if directly from lakes Erie or Ontario. Ask supplier about possibility of exotic species introduction from Great Lakes which is a very distinct possibility when the hauling water is dumped into your pond.

Thank you again - I appreciate the advice -

FH

I have a related question on my 1 acre pond completed May '08 in western NY. Structure is going in this winter (Xmas trees and one large tree with branches along back).

Can I skip on the BG and stock only YP and LMB next spring? If so, what is ideal mix of quantity and size for quality fishing for both species?

Also, any impact on an annual fall stocking of Trout for put-and-take through following spring?

Thanks

JoeP - You could stock only YP and LMB and skip BG for the spring stocking. However, if I was doing it, I would adjust the stocking schedule; others my have additional opinions. I contribute several comments:
1. I have never had good long term success with producing ample numbers of large yellow perch (YP 8"-12") when stocked with LMB in ponds less than one acre (esp if pond is relatively weed free). In local ponds of my area the LMB have always outnumbered, out produced, over crowded the pond and over ate the perch. YP recruitment of YP was minimal at best. YP were not able to maintain good numbers of 5"-7" perch that grew to fill the void when the larger perch were harvested or died of old age. The 10"-15" LMBass always over-cropped the 3"-6" perch. The 16"-18" bass will be eating your 8" perch.

2. Dr. Willis in S.Dakota has had pretty good luck of using YP with LMB in larger ponds with some natural submerged vegetative cover.

3. IMO if you are interested in producing a good YP fishery (at least initially) consisting of a good number of 10"-12" YP, I suggest that you first stock minnows and fingerling perch or minnows in spring and two or three sizes of YP in the fall (2"-4", 4"-6", 6"-8"). Allow the perch to spawn at least once before the bass are added. Bass will then feed on the abundant group of fingerling YP and minnows. Minnows will disappear first, soon after the bass are added or soon after the first spawn of bass. Minnows (FHM) will not have the ability to withstand predation of both YP and LMB. Thus adding minnows first and allowing the perch to get the initial benefit will be the best plan for quickly producing at least an initial crop of larger perch.

4. I suspect that after 3 to 5 years you will see the annual growth rate decline of perch and probably the bass due to crowding and lack of forage fish. At that point you may want to add a sunfish (BG or pumpkinseed) to the pond for additional forage items. FHM do not withstand just YP predation well; let alone predation including LMB.

5. Put and take trout stocking should not be a problem with the YP bass combo unless the bass are larger than 18" or if the trout are only 4"-6" long when stocked. Best size for trout for put and take stocking with average sized bass present would be 10"-12" or 12"-14".

6. I have discovered that stocking just male BG in a situation such as yours is a good way to have some bonus big BG fishing with none of the problems of over population of the BG. With your LMB present if you make a mistake and add a female BG that will not be a huge mistake since the bass and larger YP will help control the BG offspring.

Come back often to let us know how the pond is progressing.

Bill,

Thanks for the fast and thorough response. It sounds like I would be better off stocking BG, YP and LMB together.

I would probably add Golden Shiners to the mix. The adult GSH's will not be subject to YP predation, unlike the FHM's. They will, however, be subject to LMB predation. However, with plenty of structure and aquatic vegetation, you have a better chance for keeping some around for years to come.

In my bass heavy pond, I have a sustainable shiner population. I have a TON of structure though.

A ton of structure is very helpful for maintaining forage fish.

Good stuff here. I was considering adding YP with my BG in the spring/fall too, but I was wondering what the actual benefits would be. I want my pond to be predominantly LMB, but would love to go after some YP under ice in the winter.

The downside is that the YP will prey on the BG spawn. YP are both a forage fish and a predator fish.

So, typically, for a smallish, about one acre, pond you suggest only BG as the LMB forage fish?

For simplicity sake, yes. However, I think you could manage a YP, BG, LMB pond as long as you were willing to dedicate a little more to it.

The BG will most likely greatly outnumber YP in the pond after several years. However, if you are trying to establish a strong forage base quickly prior to stocking bass, I would probably stock the BG (and a few RES) along with FHM and wait on stocking the YP to avoid new spawn predation from the YP. I would also seriously consider adding GSH as well, but that's my own preference and others would probably disagree. I would then stock LMB and advanced size YP (if you want them) later on, following a successful BG and FHM spawn. This gives you a strong forage base for your bass without having the perch picking off your first BG and minnow spawn.

Ultimately, I believe you'll need to restock YP perhaps every other year to every third year if you want to keep a steady population of them in your pond.

By adding YP, you are adding a couple of extra variables. As long as you are willing to put the time into managing those extra variables, I believe you'll get quality results.

I stocked 150 YP and 150 BG last April in my 1/2 acre pond and so far have had excellent results. With only a small amount of supplemental feeding by hand my BG went from 3-5" to 6-8" the first year, and my YP went from 3-6" to 7-9". I had two BG spawns I believe and no YP spawn, they were too young.

I added 6 LMB last fall from a friends pond just to have something to watch (they look cool patrolling the shores) and plan on adding a dozen small 3-4" LMB this spring.

Once the LMB get over 16" I will probably have to restock a few YP every year if I want to keep them, we will see.

Rex - sounds like a good plan. Keep us advised as to how the reproduction goes from the YP as time passes year to year. It would also be helpful to also keep track of the relative amount of submerged weed growth each year which I think will have a lot to do with recruitment of the YP and their eventual growth to the 8"-10" sizes.