Is there a way to strip viable eggs from a female largemouth during the spawning season?

Thanks

This is a walleye but the technique should be the same.

Grab the stomach and squeeze towards the tail. Even if the eggs can be released they may not be viable yet. Get a capillary tube and check the eggs to see if they are clear. If they are clear they can be fertilized.

How would I use a capillary tube to check for clear eggs in a female bass?

Heck how does one tell if a bass is a female?

I have a male warmouth I want to cross a female largemouth's eggs with.

Thanks Chris

A capillary tube is a glass tube about the size of a coffe stirrer. The tube is inserted into the Urogentil pore(I think) and the exposed end is covered. The tube is then removed and the eggs are trapped in the tube. If the eggs are clear they can be fertilized.

If you were to insert the tube into a male milt would run out of the tube.

Can this be done at pond/lake side?

Thanks

Yes. It only takes a few seconds per fish and no other equipment is needed besides the tube.

Okay so how then could I transport the viable eggs back to my house?

I'd like to cross them with male warmouth milt.

Thanks

I am pretty sure that the eggs need to be fertilized immediately or it may be that the milt is not viable after a few minutes I can't remember. You could keep the fish in water, strip the eggs, then take the fish back to the pond.

So one could not strip the eggs, take them home and then strip and add milt from the male fish?

The male warmouth is in an aquarium of mine.

I am not sure. I bet somebody else will know.

How long will it take you to get home from the pond?

From either pond I am thinking about 20-25 minutes if there is not a wreck.

i feel like I need a shower after reading this.

As Sunil would say.

"Welcome to the Steelman-Slymer House of Fish Squeezing & Supply"

Here's some information on using a capillary tube in this thread:

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=103567&fpart=2

If largemouth bass eggs are anything like trout eggs they can be kept in a cool moist container for up to 48 hours before they have to be fertilized. If the eggs get submerged in water the micropyle will close prematurely. (Small opening in the egg that allows in the sperm cell) Trout eggs are usually fertilized using the "dry method." That is, care is taken not to drip any water or slime from the female fish as the eggs are extruded into a bowl. Many times the male and female fish are dobbed with a towel first. Milt is then added from a male fish and the two are gently mixed. Then place in water.

Jeez and I feel bad when I have to stick my fingers down the throat of a bass to retreive a lure.

Man you folks get up close and personal with your fish.

At least give them some pellet food or a minnow or something when your done. I believe that you at least owe them a good dinner or something.

Any advice as to what to do with the fertilized eggs to get them to hatch?

Can I just put them in a setup aguarium and wait for them to hatch?

Thanks

That picture at the top makes me hurt.Plain and simple.

Bluegill eggs are hatched all the time in aquarium set ups.

Here's a manual on bluegills on line that talks about this in one if it's chapters. It should apply to all the fish in the sunfish family as far as hatching fertilized eggs.

http://www.ncrac.org/NR/rdonlyres/7BBF17EA-1CD1-411D-9F0B-723EABEF0E3E/49161/Sunfish_Culture.pdf

Did you know anymore that many trout hatcheries don't extrude the eggs out? (Actually most private rainbow trout hactheries buy the fertilized eggs and don't bother keeping broodstock around) They actually anesthetize the fish and poke a bycycle tire needle into the cavity of the female and using low air pressue blow the eggs out. It's actually quicker and easier on the fish, which I once took pictures of this at a local trout rearing station for my local newspaper column. I got nasty comments from the girl at wallmart who developed them. She said we should be ashamed of ourselves for the cruelty. Another misinformed person that means well but doesn't have a clue. I should have reported her to Wallmart's management. I took reference pictures of the anatomy ear postions on dead deer once to make me a better deer taxidermist. When I went to pick up the pictures I got the riot act from an employee at the 2 hour photo place. I should have asked to speak to the manager as I thought this was way out of line to chew out a customer for what he took pictures of.

Gambusia, would you keep us updated on your progress?

This topic caused me to finaly create an account and stop lurking around here!

Oh, btw, howdy Big Tex!

Would one need to treat/inject the male warmouth with a hormone to ensure milt production?

I doubt it, Bob, not if you were willing to get the milt in season

P.S. That's just my uneducated idiot position and more knowledgeable students/pros/Condellos are encouraged to point out how wrong I am.

Update:

I am going to wait a little until the bass get in pre spawn mode.

In my area that is not until April-May (higher elevations)

I'm guessing then the female bass's eggs should be fertile??

Gambusia. From your homework will LMB and Warmouth (WM) be fertile at the same time in your area?
I looked in my limited literature and could not find any reference to WM X LMB hyprids. Ewest may be able to help with this topic if he see my suggestion. Does that hybrid exist or have they been created in the 'lab'?. Since you are trying to cross fish of two different genera (Lepomis & Micropterus), I question how many of the eggs will hatch and of those how many will exhibit some sort of deformity. Tradionally eggs of this type of cross have a very low hatch rate and when a hatch even occurs the percentages are low (0.5% to 20%). Then getting young that may have genetic problems to survive could be dicy. I am interested in your progress with this project.

The reason I asked about the hormone treatment was the fact that the Warmouth is an inside aquarium fish that won't know it's spring by temp change or length of day.

Sorry, FT - that's a good question. One could try manipulating water temp and photo period to mimic Spring showing up. I have done the reverse, reducing the photo period, to try and prevent spawning behavior.

http://www.pondboss.com/12.html

why not warmouth too? every one else is at the party!


If this does not work.... what about smallmouth x green sunfish. I think a pond full of 3lb fish that are never hook shy would be very attractive to me...... mabey i need to start an experiment?

The male warmouth is my fish tank.

I have turned on the heater and increased the temp to the mid 70s.

Not sure how else to get him in 'spawning mode' and produce viable milt when the time comes

I could also try to a catch a female smallmouth for this project instead of a largemouth??

Here is the warmouth:

Gambusia - Is anyone looking for literature that a WM and LMB can be crossed?

I don't think Lepomis need to go through a cold period to become fertile. However IMO taking the fish from room temp (abt 70) to mid 70's will not get this fish's juices flowing. Temp change would have to PROBABLY go from at least a low of mid 60's and over several wks to correct spawning temp AND the INCREASING day length has to correspond to temp increase - simulating au naturale conditions.

Not to be pessimistic, but I am realistic, if this is the first time you have ever performed an artificial spawning of any fish, then good luck. This artificial fertilizing of fish, especially a non-same species cross, is not something for novices. Artificial spawning of fish (same sex or hybrid production) would make a good science fair project. However, if you have previously stripped eggs, fertilized them, and succesfully hatched the eggs, then you have a 2%-10% percent chance your project could produce a few hatched eggs. However be aware the fry from this cross could be 95% or MORE deformed. Most likely the eggs will never produce a blastula because of the unnatural genus X genus cross.

Sorry I missed this earlier Bill. More long-haired stuff - there is a bunch.

Note - The scientific name of Warmouth has been changed thus Lepomios gulosus = Chaenobryttus gulosus



Phylogenetic Relationships of Sunfishes as

Demonstrated by Hybridization *

F. EUGENE HESTER

Via AFS

MATERIALS AND METHODS

These experiments were conducted by using

artificial stripping and fertilization techniques.

Male fish of each species were held in aquaria

in the laboratory where photoperiod and water

temperature were maintained at approximately

that existing at the time of natural spawning.

Ripe females were seined or trapped from

spawning areas and broughto the laboratory.

If necessary, they were given hormone. in-

jections of chorionic gonadotropin as. recom-

mended by Stevens (1966) to induce ovula-

tion. Eggs were stripped from a female into

several Syracuse watch glasses. Milt was

extruded by manual pressure and was col-

lected in medicine droppers. Eggs were fer-

tilized in watch glasses. Conspecific, inter-

specific and intergeneric crosses were made.

After the gameres were mixed, a small

amount of water was added. About ten

water and the watch glasses were filled with

water. Fresh water was added about three

times each day. The eggs were incubated in a

room maintained at approximately the normal

spawning temperature for the maternal parent.

Fertilization success was measured after

cleavage was obtained and hatching success

was measured after hatching was complete.

Hatching success was evaluated in relation to

hatching of the control cross by considering

the control cross success to be equal to 100%

and expressing the hybrid cross success as a

percentage of the control cross success.

Experiments were also conducted to mea-

sure the frequency and duration of partheno-

genetic development of sunfish eggs.

Twenty-three hybrid crosses (5 interspecific

and 18 intergeneric, including some recipro-

cals) were attempted, using 11 species of

fishes representing 7 genera.



West (]968) showed

that while Micropte'rus salrnoides X Chaeno-

bryttus gulosus hybrids could easily be pro-

duced and reared, they were sterile. The cross

of Chaenobryttus gulosus female X Lepornis

rnacrochirus male was more difficult to pro-

duce and rear (there were no survivors to

fingerllng size in the reciprocal cross), but

they wcrc fertile. This indicates a closer

phylogenetic relationship between Chaenobryt-

tus and Lepomis than is indicated by hatching

success (Figure 3). Chaenobryttus gulosus X

Lepornis rnacrochirus hybrids have also been

reported as naturally occurring populations

(Hubbs, 1955; Birdsong and Ycrger, 1967)

and have been artificially produced (West

and Hcster, 1966; Childers, 1967).



Another source

TEMPO OF HYBRID INVIABILITY IN CENTRARCHID FISHES

(TELEOSTEI: CENTRARCHIDAE)

DANIEL I. BOLNICK AND THOMAS J. NEAR











The only crosses with total inviability in

both directions are M. salmoides X (Ambloplites rupestrus,

Pomoxis annularis, or Pomoxis nigromaculatus) at 28.94 million

years, while 10 other crosses of that age have some

viability in one or both reciprocal directions (see online Appendix).

Centrarchids also retain nonzero viability and heterosis

for much longer than most other taxa.

Do I correctly deduce that Warmouths have been alternatively classified as both Lepomis Guloses and Chaenobryttus gulosus?

dr. frankenbusia

Theo -- there were papers in 1992 and 1995 that tried to use the Chaenobryttus genus. Another paper in 2002 refuted this. So, the American Fisheries Society continues to use Lepomis gulosus in its list of common and scientific names of fishes. If you actually want the citations, I can email them?

Not necessary, Dr. Dave. I just wanted to be sure I was correctly following the different sources Eric quoted.

At least wrt the fish they are talking about. I probably don't understand what all Chamberpot gulosus is up to.

Okay. ewest. Thanks for for the great literature search. I am learning lots of things on this one. With a 71% egg hatch rate for the WM X LMB cross in the first data set, maybe Gambusia's chances of producing the hybrid have increased. I wish him luck. He gets a big "atta boy" from me if he can get a hybrid egg to hatch. Even if he does not succeed, he will have learned a lot which is what exprimentation is all about - learning.

Thanks Bill. I agree it will not be easy and that is why the prior post had the "how to " and their comment - " that while Micropterus salrnoides X Chaenobryttus gulosus hybrids could easily be produced and reared, they were sterile. " .

Just in case he missed it I would suggest the reciprocal cross LMBf X WMm as it has a higher % chance from both studies 104% and 103% mean range and results in a bigger (better fish). After all we are after hybrid vigor and a sterile fish !

ewest, I hope he is successful. I would really like to see what this hybrid looks like.

My tank was around 66 degrees until I turned the heater on a couple weeks ago. Now its about 74 degrees.

Two things seem to be holding me up right now:

1) Is knowing when the female largemouth bass will be viable and therefore have eggs readily to be fertilized. I have been told the window is very narrow

Is there a way to collect and condition a female largemouth?

2) Getting the eggs to hatch once mixing and fertilization occur. Should I use a hatching jar or set up a 10 gallon aquarium with circulation?

Any ideas on what setup would get the eggs to hatch?

Thanks

Geez, now you all have the wheels turning in my punkin' head!

I was going to try some tank spawning LMB this season. We have always put them in spawning ponds,and then either removed the fry, or seined out the brood, depending on the available food.
Then we bring them in as fingerlings for feed training.

I've been in contact with some of the Texas guys who tank spawn LMB, and THINK I'm ready to go. But I may hold some and try stripping them. Just finished up with walleye and seem to have finally gotten it down, using HCG to push them, irregardless of the female's stage. (all the tubing was adding a lot of stress-now it's a shot,check at 48 hrs:if not running,same dose, another 48 hrs,and most are running). I've done them all dry the last few years, as I am usually here by myself.Check the female, if she's running, I dry her off and strip in a DRY bowl.The dry and strip males, then add water to activate, stir, deadhesive treatment,etc, Hatching pretty good this morning.

I wonder what the window is on LMB. Most of my work has been with stripers which seem to have a very narrow window. Since we are no longer making hybrids, I let them do their thing in a sytsem that simply collects the eggs after they spawn. Bouyant and non-adhesive,so works great.

If anyone has strip spawned LMB please give me a shout or reply here.

And warmouth are one of my favorite fish. Keep us posted!