Jeepers, finally a weekend that I don't head off to the pond project to work on something. Yep, how very nice to know that I can stay home and get the weekend off. Yeah, right.
Well, it's 38 degrees outside and the wind is honkin', so time to fire up the garage heater and do some guy stuff. I know.....how about building something for the pond! You didn't really think that I would totally escape...I know I didn't. Actually, this was kinda planned as I gathered the raw materials last weekend.
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The frame is 1" sched 40 PVC pipe. The outside dimensions of the cribs are 4' wide, 2' tall, and 10' long. The 2' and 4' were dictated by the 4' snow fence for efficient application. There a 2 cribs; twins. Each crib has 4 Tees installed along the bottom frame to accommodate PVC legs. Each leg will be anchored into a 5 gal bucket filled with concrete. I will also be drilling a whole buncha holes in the pipe to eliminate trapped air/gas buoyancy.

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I started by installing a fence panel in the center of each crib; don't know why, just did.

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All the fence panels are attached with medium cable ties, UV resistant. The cable tie package I bought had 100 pc and I used 'em all. I plan on buying one more package and using all of those to fill in. I don't think you can have too many. The buckets in these last two pics are only set underneath the frame for visual perspective. I tipped one crib up for the same reason.

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My pal Scott just finished drywalling his new home. Perfect timing.

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My initial plan is to install these cribs on a 3:1 perimeter slope over where there is no structure already. Since the pond bottom is kinda filled with water, my options are somewhat limited. I thought it might be cool to carefully heel in the concrete buckets deep into the slope so they won't move or slide. Then install the cribs with the 10' length parallel to the shore. The 2 legs closest to shore would be very short and the 2 legs further out and down the slope might be about 18" longer to keep the crib level. This would also provide another hiding place underneath the crib as it cantilevers out.
How deep? Any other options?

Depending on the depth that you place these, plants can grow right through the bottoms of this type of thing. If you imagine a wooden pallat sunk to the bottom of an area with submergent weeds, eventually, the weeds will grow right through the open slats. It will just be a slighty less weedy area.

If you can place it in depths where weeds wouldn't grow, the mesh could eventually get clogged up.

I meant to add this earlier, but had to go out for a while.

My guess is that the screens/mesh will eventually become solid, like walls. If you can add more surface area to the whole structure as in a lot of five-sided boxes within the overall rectangular shape, it will be productive.

To think I wasted a day getting ready for a new washer & dryer.

I have put similar structures in my own ponds. In my experience you will grow filamentous algae on and around the structure, but they will be slow to clog. You may even want them to clog a little bit. The algae will grow microscopic zooplankton for little fish to feed on. You'll have to warn future anglers about the structures, because the best way to damage them is to have someone using superline and hooking, then tearing the cribs.

As always, thanks for the feedback. I plan on installing them next weekend, so I have a little time to adjust.
Sunil, you make a very good point about weeds growing up from the pond bottom. I have about 8 ft of depth from normal pool with which I can still work (the pic below is now about 3 or 4 ft deep with water). I still think that the area with a 3:1 slope is on target, but how deep should I set the bottom of the cribs if I have about 8 vertical ft of dry zone left to work with and the cribs are 2 ft tall?

How about with the skinny side towards shore to get the maximum variation in depth over the length of the crib, one with the top end about 2' under water, the second crib farther out? This is the kind of structure I'd think you could add pretty easy after the pond is full; give the fish the most depth choices with the prototypes and see what they like.

You going to stake them down?

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Hmmmm...who says they have to be level? Maybe I use Theo's idea of running the 10' length perpendicular to the shoreline, tilted downward and following the bottom contour. If I elevate all four supporting legs equally, enough to keep the crib off the bottom about 18" or so, I also maintain a great 40 sq ft hiding place beneath each crib.
C'mon you's guys, tune this thing up.
...and, also...
With this fairly steep 3:1 shoreline, am I gonna have problems with weeds?
...and, lastly...
The holes in the fencing are 1-1/2" x 2-1/2" ovals. Because I put in a center dividing panel within each crib, there are effectively 2 compartments per crib. Would there be any wisdom in cutting out the web between 4 ovals, geometrically, yielding numerous, repetitive openings of 3-1/2" x 6"? My thinking is maybe one or two of the compartments could accommodate larger fish. The downside is that this would compromise the strength of the webbing; the plastic thickness is pretty whimpy.

Don't put them on the slope. Put them perpendicular to the shoreline across the ditch (bottom of the trench) just out from where you have them marked and about 20 ft apart. 3 ft of water under them and leave the holes as is.

This will give you a funnel from the raised bottom to the right to shore but with great change of depth. Small fish will get inside and large fish hang around the edges and over , under and between.

I have depth concerns with the concept and area. For a large part of the growing season - May- Sept. the 12 ft area may be to close to the thermocline for fish use. Also the small fish that would use the inside of the structure will not be in those depths (6-10 ft) during that period. Small fish gathering structure is better near where they were spawned and in 4 ft of water where they stay and feed. It is the small fish that attract the larger fish. Further if the structure is deeper than light penetration the plant growth on the structure will be limited.

An ideal place would be where the structure gives good change of depth and acts as a funnel or highway from the spawning/feeding area to deeper water in water about 6 ft deep (2 ft under and over the structure). This all assumes you will not be using pelagic fish for forage (shad/herring) in which case other options may be better.

Good thought process, Ewest...thank you.
I have a couple of limitations that I must consider WRT depth placement. First, I agree with Sunil's thought that shallow water will breed too much weedage (new word, me thinks). I've got to guess that 6' depth should cure most of that issue...? Second, as much as I am doing my best to plan for good structure, the pond is more than a fish haven. It's true use and plan is a Bski haven, with or without a pole. I need to be able to motor about most of the water in a small pontoon and not have to remember where special structure is located (remember, you guys taught me to to be true to myself and design based on my long term goals). Maybe just as important, the same holds true for a guest that is totally unfamiliar with my pond and submerged junk. To this end, I made a decision when this whole thing started to try to locate shallow structure (top is within 2 - 3 ft of normal pool) in specific zones. That is why all those tire pyramids and PVC trees are lining the outer edge of the shallow wetland zone. It's an area dedicated to fish stuff. The Rockytopper lunker stopper is set near the dock, but the tops are 5 - 6' below normal pool; non-issue. The balance of the pond is pretty much reserved to be devoid of submerged hazards (2' - 3' below pool).
Now, all this being said, I am willing to add the cribs to a new zone, but I want it to be near the shore (out of the way) OR 5'-6' below the normal pool.
(hmmmmm, very good Danger) you've been doing my homework. There are 2 ditches; one larger/longer, that I believe you elude to...and...Norm's ditch, shallower/shorter and further away. I believe you mean the former, this ditch, pic taken from within the basin and looking straight on to the building pad.

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...the same ditch, from the opposite end, viewed from atop the pad. The black dirt hump center of frame is the piled up spoil from digging the ditch that trails away behind it. The 2 monster holes are on each side of this dirt hump.

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OK, assuming you mean this ditch, here's the spec's. The bottom of the ditch is about 11' below normal pool. Either side of the ditch is 8'. The ditch is the width of the dozer blade: 11' + slop. Do you propose that I set the cribs within the ditch, elevated so the bottom of the crib is 3' above the bottom of the ditch? This would put the top of the cribs about 6' below normal pool. I could work with this depth, no problem. The problem might be getting them there. We've had more rain since this last pic. I've got the waders for sloppy areas, but lugging and placing eight 60# concrete feet will likely suck large. Small price to pay, eh?

B-Ski :

No problem with your goal wrt boating. While most people don't use deep structure I do and a good bit. They are just not crib types that work well for small fish in shallow water during warm times. Fish of all sizes use deep structure in cooler waters. The cribs will work in deeper water you just will not get max benefit there.

I was talking about just down the slope and to the right from where you have them in your pic. It looks like a small V ditch and then it gains elevation. About at the end of the shadow of the big trees in your pic. If the water there is 10 ft. then put them about one 5 gal bucket above the bottom that would leave 6 ft of water over the top.

It really isn't much of critical change at all; more of a bowl, if even that. There is 2' of gentle slope upward to the right of that pic. Also, I went back to my elevation drawings and the depth across the basin of that "bowl" in that pic will be 10.5' at normal pool (I'll adjust prev post a little later).
What would be the perfect depth for these things. I envision them as good protection for the smaller fish...correct? Take me back to fundamentals, abandoning concern for sumberged hazard. What would be the ideal depth to maximize their potential over the long term (remembering potential clogging weedage/cattails/etc in shallower water)?
Using your logic about the funnel or highway within the bottomscaping, I was kinda hyped on the idea of placing them within that ditch. The ditch basically runs between the dam-end basin, right up to the hump(5' higher than the ditch bottom). Then, the hump is bordered on each side by the monster holes that run about 20' deep. I can elevate the cribs within this ditch by adjusting leg height to just about any reasonable depth. Within the ditch, tho, they would wind up in the center where the submerged hazard will come back into play. If I can keep the crib tops below 5', I can work with it. Is this a reasonable game plan? The 11' ditch depth will surely eliminate excessive weed growth; good, right?....or, is the ditch a lousy yield for structure planning?

What a nice view from the front yard and such a nice pile of rocks for Rocky to be remembered by. Do you catch runoff from the right side looking from the front yard, it appears so, I'm just curious.

Brettski, not to throw a wrench in your plans, but this would go back to a comment I made on one of your threads in the past ("do more, please").

If you look to the right and left of the ditch in either of the photos above, it looks as if you will have some pretty large areas of open water with a flat pond bottom, and what seems to be a constant depth.

For boating, I think you would be OK with any structure as long as it was 3' below the water surface.

For these broad areas of open water, I would make more of the PVC/Netting structures and make pyramids and "Stone Henge"-like structures in these areas. While this sounds daunting, I would try to put at least five structure clusters on each side of the ditch, spread out in those open areas.

For some amount of time, those PVC/Netting structures will not have the netting clogged, but eventually (and I think within a year), they will effectively be solid boxes, however, they will still be great structure and fish attactions.

An ideal place would be where the structure gives good change of depth and acts as a funnel or highway from the spawning/feeding area to deeper water in water about 6 ft deep (2 ft under and over the structure). This all assumes you will not be using pelagic fish for forage (shad/herring) in which case other options may be better.

The ditches and humps you have are structures. You don't want to fill in the ditch. You could put them on the top ditch edge to act as a further funnel/irregular feature. Sunil's suggestion of putting them in an area with no features (flat bottom) in groups is good. Just think about water depth and the possible thermocline. For the part of the year when the thermocline exists structure below it will not be productive.

I believe in fish highways or structure that relates to or connects to other structure.

Thanks, guys, for hangin' in there with me on this. I have established a 5' buffer from normal pool through the largest portions of the pond. I don't want structure protruding above this point. This buffer will allow 3 ft lower water levels (plenty safe margin) without fear of hitting submerged hazards with a boat. I'm also trying keep structure stuff localized in zones that I can remember so I can dive off a boat most anywhere without fear. Being able to take a mindless dip off the Liberty ferry is critical to happiness.
What I really need to do is convert my hand-drawn map of the depths into a cyber-map. I'll put that one on "the list".
Sunil, the bottomscaping is pretty good at this, the building site end of the pond basin. The dam end lacks imagination and has most of the depth at 13 - 14'. I keep coming back to my original area of placement near the shore to keep it out of the boating/swimming path. Ewest's thought to move it out a ways is OK with me, but I would have to keep them pretty low because of the boat/swim thing....it is very close to the launch/dock and there will hopefully be plenty of splashing around in this 1/4 ac zone. If the cribs are close to the shore slope, as Theo offered, they would be easy to avoid.
....I'm gettin' real confused.

Been there, done that, sell the T-shirt.

Thanks, RT...my back, bank's money, PB tuned. The rocks are a mere run-off channel for the building pad. The REAL gem is the 12 truck tires geometrically arranged just outside the launch dock-deck. This arrangement, the Rockytopper lunker stopper, will surely be a great place for fish to stop off after a hard day.
Yep, the right side is indeed the source of about half of the 55 some total drainage acres. There are 2 draws coming from that side, both draining thru the timber after catching alot of the total drainage from a farm field about 300 feet beyond the woods.

OK, I had to make a decision and get 'em installed. We packed 'em up on the trailer, grabbed the sweaters and jackets, and headed for the project. I gotta wonder how many expressway travelers did a double take and still have no idea.
It's been 2 weeks and there has been some measurable rain. We picked up another 4" - 5" of depth, so I am happy with my choice to keep the cribs close to shore. I opted to go with my original choice of location, tilting them as suggested by Theo. The idea of varying depths makes sense to me. (pardon the dark, gray background. It was a long day, much spent on adding to the dock/deck. By the time we got to the cribs, it was gettin' late)

The feet are 5 gal buckets weighted with 60# of concrete mix. The legs are the same 1" PVC. I ran two 3" SS screws thru the PVC legs at the bottom of the pipe, one from each side, then set the posts in the wet concrete in the 5 gal bucket. The legs attach at the base of the cribs into a 1" PVC tee. I sanded out the ID of the Tees so the PVC leg will slip in and out, then ran a 1" SS screw in from the side to attach. This way, remove 4 SS screws and the crib completely detaches from the legs (here's to hoping this option is never exercised).
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The top corner of both cribs is set about 2 ft below normal pool.

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Impressive as always, Brettski.
Oh what are jackets and sweaters?

Another fine piece of work, Brettski. You may consider tying a small marker that will stay just submerged at full pool to mark the closest deep edge of it. This will prevent hangups by you and your guest.

Oooo boy, what a perfectly miserable day to work at the pondsite. The only reason we went is cuz the temp is in the mid 50's; tuff to beat for a midwest Christmas. The downside; man, it was mooshy wet and drizzly all day. Yeah, I know...quit complaining.
OK, I took Ted Lea's generous advice and added center support legs on the cribs. I cut in a tee, added a new 1" PVC vert, and terminated it into a 1.375" dia. recess into the top of a 2 x 6 treated support pad. I toe-nailed a 3" stainless screw thru the PVC into the 2 x 6 to hold it on.

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After that little wrestling match, we perservered as the rain started to pick up and I moved on to the next experiment. (time to complain again) 3:1 slope + clay + rain = ski to get down and walk 50 steps to ascend...sux.
OK, the new experiment...
Either you guys are gonna laugh or applaud; I kinda hope for both. Since I placed these cribs in an area where there really isn't much atmosphere to promote spawning, I felt they needed a little help. After reading the above posts on the advantage of linking spawning zones with fingerling protection zones, the Brettski engineering firm went to work. I wanted to provide some areas for sand or pea gravel or something near these cribs, but the slope is not conducive. Soooo.....I decided to create a slope (or lack thereof) that will work.
So I'm flippin' thru my favorite Sunday paper sales ad...Menards. Just before the little Chicago snowstorm a couple of weeks ago, they had snow saucers on sale. You know, the plastic round sleds that replaced the garbage can lids that we used as kids on the snow hill. Hmmmm...this is very interesting. If I can put them up on legs to be level, I can set up custom spawning huts and open a resort.
Next stop: Menards. 9 snow saucers and 3 lengths of 2" x 10' PVC pipe. OK, off to the dollar store. I need some kind of foot pad to prevent the PVC legs from driving into the clay bank over time. Yep, found 'em. Little plastic salad bowls, about 7" dia x 2.5" deep. 4 for a buck; bought 28 of 'em. A quick stop at work for 3/4" dia rebar leg pins, 24" long with a little 3" hook at the top. I put a 1" dia forstner bit to work, pre-fabbing the holes in the saucers and the bowl-feet. I put the saucer on the workbench and tried to locate the ideal location for a tripod support system that will help bear the load as it spread out within the saucer. After making a committment, I measured and drilled out three equally spaced 1" holes in one saucer. It was used as a pattern for the rest of 'em since they fit and stack perfectly within each other. I put the same 1" hole dead center of each bowl-foot. Final stop, the slippery slope.
I set up the laser, shot elevations, and flagged each of the nine spawning bowl locations. I will put 3 rows of 3; one row at each side of the two cribs and one row right down the middle between them. Each row will will have 3 spawning bowls, one at 3' deep, one at 5', and one at 7' from normal pool.

I packed the inside of each bowl with the sloppy clay, inverted 'em and strategically located each one in a triangle, holding a a snow saucer (with predrilled holes) over the bowls as a pattern. Then I stepped on each bowl, mooshing it firmly into the sloppy clay bank AND quasi-leveling it with my foot pressure. Then, I measured and cut the 2" PVC tubing to length. I found that making the highest leg (center, top-uphill) at 4" works with the bottom 2 legs at 7" tall. Slip the rebar pin thru the saucer, thru the PVC leg, thru the hole in the bowl-foot, and pound 'er in. They work out to be purty derned level.
I only got the three lowest bowls installed before the misery overcame me and we packed it in for the day (pardon this next perspective pic; raindrops on the lense)

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So....now that we are done laughing, what say the experts? Am I OK with the varying depths noted above? They really work well with the depths of the cribs. Now...the big question. What would you put inside the saucers? I am contemplating a bed of 50/50 sand and pea gravel. It can't be TOO heavy; I am guessing that a layer of about 2.5" - 3" deep (at the center of the saucer) will stretch out to the edges and cover about 80% of the spawning bowl. Any other thoughts or ideas?

I would use just gravel, 1/4" to 1/2". The eggs need to be in among the gravel for protection and with room for water/air circulation. It also depends on the type fish spawning. The experts will yea or nay this suggestion.

I think I'd use gravel, sized like bm suggests or even larger (up to 1"). I think anything that would prefer smaller stuff, like pea gravel or sand, will spawn OK on the clay somewhere in the pond (their success % may be lower, but they're gonna have beau coup more chances). But fish that can't/won't spawn in clay, like SMB, would do better in larger gravel IIRC. Make sure it's round edged (ala creek- or bank-run, not crushed).

Brettski, those are undoubtedly the most secured snow saucers in the world.

The mud was bad, but you could have used that secret silicon spray lubricant from Clark Griswold's company. It always mixes well with saucers.

Larger gravel does not absolutely have to be round edged, although I prefer round edged gravel for bass spawning. I am not sure that the bass care. Two local ponds have golf ball sized crushed limestones ("1"-3" pieces) lining the bank and crushed fine limestone (1/8"-1/4") on the beach area. SMB in these two ponds routinely have hatches each year. The benefit to round river gravel is that it may stay cleaner with less attached algae growths than the limestones. But when the bass gets to cleaning the nest most loose debris gets brushed away.

More important than the shape or surface texture of the coarse gravel for bass (SMB) spawning, is to locate some sort of piece of structure adjacent to the nest such as a log, small cinder block wall, large boulder. Studies have shown that at least SMB prefer some sort of structure adjacent to the nest site. It is thought that the structure makes it easier for the bass to defend the nest against intruders. Defending two or three sides of a nest is easier (more successful) than defending a compeltely open nest that is vulnerable to 360 degree attack.

Britt - I am not sure that it was necessary to go to the extra work of putting the legs on the saucers. I think it is a good idea of using saucers since bass seem to create nest fairly distant from one another. I think the saucers would work just as well placed right on the dirt bottom. If one thinks the saucer needs to be leveled & raised off the bottom to keep it slightly less mucky then why not just lay the saucer on a used "recycled" large car tire that has been leveled onto a "step" or flat spot cut into the pond bottom. Tire will hold saucer off bottom and weight of gravel will hold saucer in the cavity of the tire. If you want the saucer higher off the bottom stack two tires and then place the saucer on top filled with gravel.

Bingo, Brettski! The saucer dodge worked - we got Cody to divulge more info on SMB spawning areas.

Another post to save in my permanent files.

Just think about it, Theo....someday we'll both look back reminiscing those glory days with the Saucer Dodge. Ah yes, dems were da days dontcha know.
Actually, it wasn't that big of a deal. I have wrestled with tires and now the saucers; I find them equivalent on the difficult and time consuming scale. No cost tires would beat the saucer cost, tho not by much. I have $4 total in each saucer assembly. I wanted to elevate them to eliminate catching soil run-off. The design also provides a small bonus room beneath.
If you review the last pic of the post, the orange survey flags are where the remaining saucers are slated for installation; 3 vertical rows of 3 saucers. Am I OK with this spacing?
I am intrigued with the idea of a unique structure item. Are you suggesting one out-structure per saucer? I could see stacking 3 full size cinder blocks in a short pyramid to the side of each saucer...?
Finally, I like the idea of the 3/4" - 1" round river rock. Winner?

The design also provides a small bonus room beneath.

Ya gotta love it! Open air condo below...nursery upstairs. As I've said before, you da man, Brettski.

When I die I want to come back as a SMB and live in your pond Brettski, Only all muscled up for a strong fight on the line and not fit to eat so I am tossed back in, the pond that is and not the skillet.

Brettski I have not seen you say what you want to spawn there. Did I miss that somewhere ? There are some threads here on SMB spawning areas and lots of good info elsewhere.

If you are thinking BG keep in mind they are colony nesters. The reasons have been set out in the Neff articles. There are some BG who are solitary nesters but not a big %.

Tell us what other info you are interested in wrt this matter. The 2 sets of pics below should help.

In these pics note the big rocks near by which serves the purpose Bill noted wrt logs and SMB and rock size.





Next BG beds

...comforting to know that Ewest keeps a firm but unrestrictive tether on my crazy dreams. Thanks. Nope, I never really got too involved with the ultimate detail...the icing on the cake. I am going to start another thread to beg oversight and assistance in my stocking plan. Please join me on the Help me adopt my fish family thread. Then, as these threads develope (I hope), they will promote each agenda to a sensible conclusion.

"The design also provides a small bonus room beneath."

I have doubts about the benefits of the open space below the saucer spawning devices on legs. Room underneath can allow smaller nest predators (usu fish) to collect and hide yet still remain in close proximity of the target. The male fish now not only has to watch out for 360 degree attacks and with the nest on legs the male has to watch out for intruders from below.

....arrgghhh
the dreaded free-loading home invaders! I'll bet most of 'em will be relatives!
Got a cheap/easy cure? Won't the out-structure provide a look-out for both areas?

My guess is that SMB would rather have the nest on the ground not on legs. Natural instinct is to be on the ground and protected. But you could do one each way and see what happens. I would put it on the ground and put a log , board or big rocks on the shore side and leave the deep water and crib sides open.

Brainstorm...dig this.
I drill a half dozen holes into the saucer perimeter and attach some of the snow fence as a curtain hanging down to the slope. It's already dark green and as stuff grows on it, it will lend even more appearance as a stump or something. And...I still get the bonus room for a fingerling playroom hideout.

"Brettski's Playhouse"

...alrighty, all the saucers are set.
Sorry for the washed out pic; it's a telephoto shot with lousy overcast lighting and a cheap camera:

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I plan to attach a "snow fence" perimeter curtain to each saucer as mentioned above. I also plan to place a larger rock next to each unit as out-structure to meet Cody zoning regulations.
We picked up another 6 - 7" of water since the last visit 3 days ago...gotta git goin'.

That looks like some weird world where living plastic evolved, as the first polyvinylphibians are bravely marching up out of the primordial plastigoop sea onto dry land.

I fear that if you don't get those things covered with water soon, you'll start to have visits from extraterrestrials. It's got to be sending some kind of message out to the galaxy.

As we discuss the proper environment to benefit SMB existance and spawning on the Help me adopt my fish family thread, there are some good structure ideas surfacing.
Bski gets one of his limited brainstorms:
Ewest replies, supporting the idea with practical experience:
Alrighty, then. I continue to operate with the reassurance that Dr Dave says that a key component to structure development is having fun. I'm not sure if I would call it fun, but...well...maybe this is what fun is like in my pond-life. Yeah, I'll go with that.
So, I pick thru the pile of 6" PVC pipe that I have in stock and remove the grungiest pieces to be sacrificed as artificial logs. Then, I purchase a bunch of lengths of the same 1/2" PVC pipe that I used for the PVC tree limbs. Yep, and the same 1" SS screws to stabilize the limbs. I goofed around in the basement and came up with the first 2 prototypes.

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Each unit is 3 sections of 6" PVC logs x 24" long. They are hinged on a pivot pin of 1/2" PVC pipe; 2 pivots per unit. The limbs are 1/2" x 24" PVC pipe. The units can be laid in at any geometry that works best. The ends of the outside logs have 1" holes drilled to accommodate a 3/4" rebar pin that will be pounded into the soil to anchor them.
I plan on 6 of these units. I will use the top configuration. They will be placed in between the vertical rows of the saucers. From top to bottom, each vertical row will be: saucer, log, saucer, log, saucer.
I still plan on working in a few larger double-basketball rocks, also. The snow-fence curtains around the saucers, too. After that, I quit with this zone (I hope).

Brettski again goes first class, over the top - note the fake wood grain applied to the PVC logs!

...pretty close to bein' done with the crib zone.
If I never have to ski down another slippery clay laden, saturated, cold and clammy slope again...it will be too soon.
OK, the PVC log units are in place. So are the perimeter sno-fence curtains on the saucers. We took on another dowsing of water since the last visit; good thing I made it out this time or I would be working on submerged structure.

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The curtains worked great, attached with drilled holes in the saucer perimeter and cable tys. The log units are firmly fastened to the slope, impaled with stout rebar pins. Man, does it look kooky in this area....nothing like the average Joe looks of the tire pyramids and PVC tree configurations. :rolleyes:
The water had gotten so high that I feared the next visit with the rock for the saucers might really suck...so...I used leftover rock from this last summer when we built the drain filter case. I had kinda forgetten about it. It's a mix of 1/2" - 2" shards with sharp corners. It's some kinda very hard, granite type landscape rock that's red in color. My pal Scott gave me a hand as we used what was available at the pondsite, working to fill the lowest saucers first. We had enough to do about 1/2 of 'em, buying some time to finish the saucers located at a higher elevation sometime soon. When I poured and spread out the last 5-gallon bucket load into a saucer, Scott notes to me a critical flaw with my plan: bass don't like red rocks. Thanks, pal.
This is another shot, not necessarily meant to detail the crib zone, but just barely catches a different angle on the typical PVC log installation geometry.

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Say bye-bye to the Rockytopper Lunker Stopper tire configuration, going down for the third time. Soon to bid adieu to the dry-hydrant intake, too.

Brettski,

Very cool stuff your making there!!

I'm wondering if your putting it all in the same place is counter productive? Is it ideal to have them all so close together, or spread them out in groups of two or three all around your lake?

The reason I ask is that they will attract you fish to them, and with high concentractions in one area, you wont have as many in other areas, and you might also limit how many fish are actually able to take advantage of them.

Again, I don't know about these things, I'm just curious.

Thanks,
Eddie

This entire zone morph'd from a the basic cribs. It is actually the 5th of 6 zones of man-made structure and/or rock.
This particular area started as the cribs. Then I realized that they provided great protection for fingerlings, but no connection to anything pertinent for spawning. This lead to expansive discussion on just what I planned to stock. Deciding that SMB was a likely player, I got too creative and came up with the saucers to create nearby, permanent rock beds that would be shallow enough, but still work on a 3:1 slope. Then the finetuning of my W-A saucer invention to give it a chance...by adding the sno-curtains and some nearby PVC log structure. This last stuff came from Bill Cody and Ewest's attempt to help me have any possible chance of success.
So, ultimately, this becomes a SMB spawning laboratory. Heck, I don't know what I'm doin' here. I'm taking solid, scientific data and analytical advice, adding my duct tape and spit, tryin' to re-invent the mouse trap.
What if it works?

Hey Brettski,

You replied to my post faster than I could get back to it. I was just looking at your other post with the pictures of your lake and all the structure you have all over the place. Lots and lots of it!!!

I forgot about those pictures and didn't realize you had done so much and had it spread out to the extent you do.

One thing I want to do in a few years, is to snorkle around my structure and see what's going on. I can't imagine what it will look like, but I sure want to find out!!

Who knows, maybe I'll find a waterproof digital camera that's cheap enough to take some pictures of what's using my structure???? LOL

Thanks,
Eddie

I can see it in a couple of years after the primordial plastigoop sea has filled the void.

Plasticous Perca flavescens laying their long strands of elastic plastic eggs on the cribs.

PVC Micropterus dolomieu guarding their poly predator babies over the inverted plastic mushroom tops.

Lepomis Polyvinylus microlophus crunching on thin polyshell snails with their thermoplastic polymer pharyngeal crusher plates.

Poly Pimephales promelas inside the Brettski logs nesting with their plasticizer tubercles emitting a sticky ooze.

All the while the first polyvinylphibians who through the thermal depolymerization process can safely and efficiently convert PVC into fuel and minerals ,are bravely marching toward the land and being consumed by the poly goop fish on their way. Sounds kinda like someone fishing with a plastic lizard !!

Honestly, Eric, I don't know where you come up with this stuff!

The mad Dr Ewest states:
...there has GOT to be something in there that needs to be moderated!

My head hurts from reading that.

Just thought I would add something to this thread. I was reading that someone thought it would get mucked up with moss. When I was a kid one of the ponds we fished had something like this in it. It would get mossed up but with a quick pop with the ore the muck would be gone. And man you should see the bait fish hitting the muck. This was not a box but a fence made out of the same type of material.

I love your box idea and thinking of doing the same thing. I also need to put some tubes in the pond for the CC that my neighbor put in the pond.

Mike