Yankee ingenuity needed! (or Dixie ingenuity, as the case may be)

I've been perusing the forums and read the great writeups on structure. I'm now convinced...
#1: I don't have enough
#2: of where it should be
#3: that a pile of cinder blocks 4 feet high in 9 feet of water should be a nice addition to my little 1.5 acre pond in Southern MN.

Here's where you guys with the big brains and duct tape come in:
I'd like to put about a ton of blocks out on the ice this winter and let them sink with the spring thaw. Anybody got ideas on keeping the blocks tied together in a nice high pile when they fall through?

My understanding of quick crete is that it will freeze before it hardens in a Minnesota February. The best that my feeble mind can produce is a couple hundred yards of rope, but that won't stop the pile from settling into a low mass instead of the majestically towering pile I'm hoping for.

Anyone?

Thanks,
CZ

Maybe a cold weather PL construction adhesive?

Tarp and heat?

Strapping and tapcons?

Interesting...do you think the construction adhesive would hold long-term? Like a decade or two?

I had to hit Google for the heat strapping, but I'm still a little confused. I'm thinking it's not the same as hanger strap, since you mention using a tarp as well.

I edited my post for clarity. I meant metal strap and tapcon anchors.

PL says 40°f. In my experience that's pushing things, but if you tent it and heat it...

Fill the cores with rebar and pour in crete filler. Crete guys can help with heating it up, but I think calcium chloride is what they use. Crete will make it's own heat so if you do on a warm day and wrap it

Simply ose nylon rope and heavy duty tie wraps. Metal will rust, and more concrete will be too heavy. Ne need to wait for a thaw, any weight like that will push right through the ice without a thaw. However you need to be careful as that much weight in a concentrated spot could break through some pretty tick ice.

This might be an area where haydite blocks would be a better choice than concrete.

550 cord (parachute cord) would be my choice. Its cheep, strong, and lasts forever. I have used it for all sorts of stuff and it has not let me down yet.

If you can find an HVAC supply house, they sell very large heavy duty zip ties for duct work. I think home depot and lowes sell them as well but they might be more expensive.

Thanks guys - great ideas!

I happened to talk to my bro-in-law tonight. He's works for Fish and Game. He suggested constructing a crib out of timbers, and putting the block in there. That, of course, leaves the problem of getting it to sink evenly in the spring...

He also mentioned that the water gestapo (MN DNR) forbids using cinder block for riprap on lakeshore, but he didn't know why. He speculated that it might leach one of its component chemicals and thought I should contact the DNR just to make sure. Anybody heard of the logic behind this one?

Heard the same thing about concrete. Apparently the previous owner of my place dumped tons of concrete rubble along the bank of the river here and got in a boat load of trouble with the DNR. Something (calcium?) leaches out of it and can be harmful to the BOW.

Here is what I would do I think. Have a bottom layer of concrete blocks as the foundation with steel rebar or 2x4's running through the holes and tied so they stay flat. Stack and tie the rest of the blocks to the foundation and tied. Then on top tie a truck inter tube to the top of the blocks. When the blocks drop through the ice the tube should keep them upright as they drop to the bottom.

sounds like a fun summer time snorkeling project to me.

How close to Duluth are you?

I made several of these at our place just outside Duluth and snorkeled them into place.

I'm not too sure about the supposed negative effects of concrete in a BOW. When I was involved in the concrete industry we poured many a bridge job, including footings and pilings, for state projects.

I would suspect its not a biological/chemical reaction concern. It's an aesthetics "non natural" look that repurposed concrete block would bring.

Thanks guys! I put out a crib with concrete blocks in it and watched it go through a couple of weeks ago. The fish seem to have taken a liking to it already. Here's video from a game cam I was adjusting when it went down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiPsjmG5bsg

That was pretty cool...did it stay upright all the way to the bottom?

That was awesome! Maybe 6 more feet to the left...or not

really neat

I am thinking the (unrealistic) fear with excessive amounts of concrete is Calcium Hydroxide (Hydrated Lime) leaching out. Hydrated Lime, on it's own will raise pH very quickly to lethal levels when spread in a pond....I do not see that likely happening, over years, from broken concrete, however.

If concrete hurts the water I'll be in a world of hurt. I have several tons of old turkey barn foundation (1'x2'x6-10' lengths) cribbed up in the deep water of my pond. Plus some slabs for artificial bluffs. Plus probably at least 50 concrete blocks for various projects and uses.

Plus I have over the last week used hydrated lime to kill some FA.

So far no dead fish that I know of from it. The minnows and small BG swim in and around the hydrated lime covered algae right after I apply it.

Of course our water tends to be naturally acidic so I figure the lime from the concrete, crushed limestone lining the shore line and other sources can only help.

Could be wrong though.

It looks like it settled upright and in one piece. I think the ropes may have actually helped in that regard. All that remains now is to try and get the anchor pin loose so I don't have to cut the ropes.

I've got to believe that concrete is okay for submersion. Otherwise every government agency and their brother would screaming about erosion and bridge projects, wouldn't they?

snrub: your post about FA struck a chord with me as I have a case of bloom happening now. It seems like it took off with our wet spring last year, and continued under the ice. From what I understand, my first step is to cut off sources of nutrients. A tile line that drains a couple of acres of field and a bunch of bullheads stirring up the bottom are my primary suspects. My water level has also been down since last July so I haven't had much flow of fresh water. Does that pass the sniff test with you? Do you have any other thoughts?

All others please feel free to chime in as well!

looked great to me now u have me trying to figure out how to do what u did in a southern pond where no ice is there to give me that stable platform prior to sinking. Don't misunderstand me here, I don't want the Ice lol

Tracy

How about an oversized slingshot?

This would probably do the job!

Haha, yeah... I think you can rent those at Sunbelt.

Before I decided on the ice method, I was thinking about floating it out there with barrels tied to the assembly with rope. Some fancy trucker's knots would give the quick release to let it sink when it was in position. Do you think that would be feasible for you?

Looks to easy using one of these. I can't make it that simple
And tying off barrels to the crib and floating it out there is a good idea, I Think, but I can already see in my mind it will not be as easy as it sounds.

Tracy

Great idea with the tire on top. Kinda like a parachute.




As soon as water is added to concrete the quick lime changes and will never be quick lime again. The longer is cures or is exposed to air the harder it will get and the less quick lime with be left. The quick lime gos back to calcite again. I would be more worried about the magnesium and potassium that can be released when broke or even the water base sealant used to seal the blocks dissolving again.

Cheers Don