I am a boy scout and am almost an eagle scout, and I am starting to plan my eagle project. I want to renovate the two run off/storm water management ponds that both hold stable, healthy populations of Largemouth bass and bluegill. I was wondering if you guys could help me and give me some advice. Here is my plan right now:

Project description: The goal of this project is to improve the conditions of the ponds in the Olney Mill family park and create structure and plant flowers and trees around the ponds to enhance the appearance of the pond. The structure that will be planted for the fish and animals that inhabit the 2 ponds in the park and will provide them with better conditions to live in.

Who will benefit: The Olney mill residents will benefit from this project. The Maryland Department of natural resources will also benefit because they are the ones responsible and are the care takers for the pond. This will enhance the appeal of the pond also which will benefit both the home owners association and the Olney mill residents.

Present conditions of the ponds: At this time the fish that inhabit the pond have very little structure to occupy and inhabit. Right now the only sort of cover the fish have to inhabit is the aquatic grass that grows in the pond from late spring to late fall, but once winter arrives all the grass is gone and there is no structure for the fish. Around the pond the grass is over grown and there are no trees or bushes around the pond for the animals such as foxes, rabbits, and birds to inhabit.


Plans for the ponds: I plan to have artificial structure, such as artificial trees made from scrap PVC pipe that will provide a place for the populations of bass and bluegill to live, hide, and feed which will be built and constructed by myself and the people that volunteer for this project. I also plan on sinking an Artificial stump field for the fish in the pond to use and I also plan on constructing Artificial Christmas trees to place in one of the ponds, which will be constructed by scrap wood and lumber and scrap PVC pipe. I also plan on possibly sinking one to two evergreen trees in the deeper parts of the two ponds. I also plan on planting different types of non-invasive aquatic grasses in the two ponds at different deoths to suit the needs of the largemouth bass population.

Local Government Compliance Issues: There may be a need of getting a permit in order to place the Evergreen trees in the two ponds.




Materials needed:
6, 5 gallon plastic buckets………………….. $14.04 (Home Depot)
40 LB Sakrete Concrete Mix……………………$4.28 (Ron's Home and Hardware)
JM Eagle Schedule 40, 3/4 in. x 10 ft. PVC Plain End……………..$40 (Home depot)
7 bricks, Oldcastle 7-3/4 in. x 2-1/4 in. x 3-3/4 in. Concrete Brick ……………………$2.87 (Home Depot)
Dead Evergreen trees………………………… Donations
5 spools of 20 pound Monofilament………………………..Donations
Stimson Lumber Co 2 In. x 2 In. x 8 Ft. Furring Strip………………$5.28 (Home depot)
Rocks……………………………. Donations
Plate sized stones……………………………Donations
Pea sized gravel…………………………….
Tools:
Jon boat (Any size)……………… Donation
Hammers
Screw drivers
Screws
Shovels

Plants:
Hyacinths
Water celery
Wild rice
Eelgrass

Also, The pond was built in 1969 as a stormwater management pond. The biggest bass that I have caught during the 10 years I have fished the pond was a 3.25 pound Largemouth bass. There is a strong, very strong blue gill population, but I was thinking of adding a few pounds of fathead minnows, is this a good idea. I am applying for a grant from the Chesapeake bay trust to finance this eagle project. I want to create small rock piles in the deeper parts of the pond for the bass. The deepest part of the pond is up to 6 1/2 feet deep and has murky water. All the bass in the pond are in the 10 to 13 inches long. The pond was never actually "stocked" I was told by a neighbor that an old man used to catch bass from the potomac river and put them in the pond. My goals for the ponds are to:

(1). Expand the population of bass and have a healthy population of bass
(2). Grow bigger bass in this pond
(3.) Create a Diverse food chain for the bluegill and bass in this pond/
(4). Create structure for the bass to inhabit and feel safe in

Hey 123 Excellent project choice and well thought out plan. Welcome! You picked the perfect site for this worthy project.

This is awesome! Wait for the experts to weigh in, but I think adding minnows would only result in them being a quick snack for the existing fish in the pond. Great idea and keep us updated! And as FFF said, we love pics!

What baitfish species do you think would do best in this pond? I just sent an email to the Fisheries department at the Maryland DNR about someone coming out to the two ponds and doing a population study on the largemouth bass populations in the two ponds

What are your goals for the ponds? If you stated this, I apologize. I'm reading and posting from my phone. Most likely more bluegill will be suggested. And removing bass. If I read your words above correctly.

It's going to be tough to get baitfish established in a pond with well established predators. If you've caught 3+ pound LMB out of there, getting baitfish to take hold is going to be a seriously difficult situation. Not necessarily impossible, but difficult, especially without habitat for them to hide in and avoid predation.

You raise a lot of great issues and it sounds like there is going to need to be a good bit of thought go into the answers. Sit tight and wait for feedback - as the others have said, this is the place to get the answers you need to move the project forward with the greatest chance of success.

By the way, best of luck on the project! I did mine about 26 years ago and have always been glad I earned the Eagle rank. And remember, it's never "I WAS an Eagle Scout." It's always "I AM an Eagle Scout!"

There is a nice bluegill population in the pond. Also, I have attached some photos of the bass i have caught from the pond. The 3 pounder i caught from the one pond was caught during last June's ble gill spawn. The population of both bass and baitfish used to be stronger but a serious drought hit the pond in the summer of 2008

From the look of the water in the first picture, it looks like you've got some issues with filamentous algae (FA) and possibly another surface weed such as watermeal or duckweed. Those things usually come about as a result of an excessive nutrient load in the water. That can come from a number of sources including runoff from fertilized areas and also from waste (poop) from heavy goose traffic. Those are just a couple of sources - there are many that can impact nutrient levels. Is providing a plan for control of aquatic vegetation a part of your project (I don't recall seeing it stated in there, but just curious if you've given that some consideration).

It did come to mind, and it is duckweed and it takes over the shallows in the summer and dies off in the fall. The problem is I don't know what to do about it, Would grass carp help at all? A few years ago, maybe 4 years ago it got so bad the whole pond was coverd with duckweed and all you could hear were the "popping" sounds of bluegill. It usually just surrounds the sides of the and thats where its the thickest

Hey 123 Looks like the first thing you are going to have to consider is improving water quality. Some of the guys here are real experts and will help you with that. You probably won't need to add any forage to this pond, it seems from your posts that these ponds are already heavy with BG. Might consider taking a bunch of them out, probably some of the small LMB too.
Thats a good looking fish in pic#1...rubber worm? Also always always hold a fish sideways and as far out towards the camera as you possibly can...old tip from the T.V. fisherman!

Are you sure it's duckweed and not watermeal? They're similar, but WM is much, much smaller - kind of like grains of cornmeal. I don't know too much about duckweed, but watermeal, along with just about every other aquatic plant in the pond, would likely be eliminated with a fluoridone based product like Whitecap or the others that use it as the active ingredient. If done early enough in the season and in the right dosage amounts to maintain the required ppm concentration, fluoridone will pretty readily keep things under control for several months.

Grass carp will not eat either DW or WM, so don't waste resources trying that approach. Both are target food sources for tilapia, but tilapia are likely only 5 - 6 month fish in your area as most strains will die off around 55 degrees or so. Blue tilapia are a bit more cold hardy and can survive down to around 45 degrees. They all reproduce like crazy, providing a great food source for the young fish and as they slow down as the temps drop, the larger ones become food for your big predators in the pond. The right concentration of tilapia in terms of pounds per acre could potentially have a solid impact on the surface vegetation while also adding to your food chain, but tilapia will be an annual stocking in order to maintain their impact.

Thanks for the idea, maybe part of project can be taking out the bluegill, I will talk to the Fisheries management officer that comes to do the population study how many bluegill I should take out and how many smaller bass I should take out. To my knowledge there are know crawfish in the pond. The ponds are a little less than an acre. I think the bluegill population is a little too big and there is not bass big enough in the pond to eat the larger, adult blue gill. The main grass in the pond is elodea, to my knowledge

Share the fisheries guy's opinions with us when you get his findings. Might be interesting to see what he recommends. Craws won't likely have a big impact, I think. LMB will eat them, but they aren't the real backbone of their food chain.

My main goal is to have this pond produce largemouth bass that are 6 pounds plus in at least one of the two ponds, but I do think adding structure and more habitat and structure will help. There aren't many bass in this pond that are bigger than 18 inches, the 3 pounder I caught there was 18 inches, most of the bass are 14 inches or smaller

At this pond I have had 150 blegill days

123 Not to overcomplicate what will be a fun and rewarding project, but I guess this is a community pond? You really need to control or at the very least know who is fishing there? how often? what kind of fish are they catching and how many? do they release them or keep them ?etc

Is this a public lake? Is there anyway to regulate what fish are kept and thrown back. It'll be tough to get good population when someone comes in after a year of your work and takes home 30 of your 2-3lb bass. I think is one of the main things people overlook, you gotta know when to keep and know when to release..

FFF howd you sneak that in before me..

The 2 ponds are in a neighborhood park, a few people fish them with their kids, and many of my friends do to, but no one keeps any of the bass or bluegill to my knowledge, I was thinking of having a sign made and telling them about the project and suggest the catch and release concept to them, I have seen different adults take their younger kids fishing for bluegill at the ponds. But to answer your question, most people, including myself, do not keep any of the fish they catch.

I dont know if youll have a lake that is stacked full of 6lbs+ bass, some yes, some bigger yeah. Structure is good but i really dont think its going to translate to bigger fish. You need a correct ratio of predator prey to grow fish, Fish have to eat to grow and there has to be something for them to eat all the time and the right size of food to grow big..

All I really want to do is to increase the size of the bass in the pond, whether they hit 6 pounds, i don't care. I think the problem is that the bass don't have the right sized food, they have food, but not the right sized food

Lake regulations would be good and something that might be possible through the city board, A sign making people aware of the project is good, And the lakes dont necessarily need to be catch and release you wanna remove some fish so you need quanity limits and size limits..

When I officially get the project approved by the board and get it started I will look into having signs put up around the pond. Also, how do you figure out how many bluegill need to be taken out?

Once you get the survey youll be able to tell exactly what needs done. But you will never have big bass if some Joe Shmoe comes in one day and takes out 50 of your biggest bass. I would make one pond for panfish and one for bass. The bass pond is gonna need some structure and good bedding areas for fish to breed and grow to good eating size..

I am also planning on making part of my project creating spawning cover for the bass by placing a number of plate sized stones and within the perimeter of those stones placing pea sized gravel for the bass to spawn.

Get the survey that will give you a good idea on the bluegill. But in my pond i take out any bluegill caught that is hand size, I throw back all big males and females, and i really dont catch many small ones. Ive never taken a bass out of my pond can i cant catch the channel cats if there still in there.. This is just what i do it is not a suggestion for your pond necessarily but it works for mine. Everyone else that i let fish my pond is catch and release unless im with them then they can keep 500 hand sizers if they want i dont care just dont think you can come into my house and still my kids lol..

Hopefully some of the bass guys hop on here for ya.. I really dont know much about raising big bass my pond is managed for bluegill. Also get to know the search feature and going through the old post. All the questions youve asked are answered in old post somewhere in one way or another..

Thanks for the advice guys, I just want to make this pond the best possible

So I shouldn't add brush piles and PVC trees to the pond along with dead evergreen trees?

Oh yeah you want to or else your fish will never be able to hide long enough to grow past fry.. The thing is placement of it has to be right. Needs to be in transition area and around spawning areas for the babys to get too..

Well you did the best first step (PONDBOSS.COM) also pondboss magazine is good for learning..

I have some ideas on where to put them, there is a spot at the pond where there is a shallow flat (less than a foot) that kind of slopes into deeper water (2 to 3 feet) , them goes shallow again

How much structure is too much?

boyscout, welcome to the forum. There's a lot of things to talk about for these ponds, and it's hard to figure out where to start.

Nutrient Loading:

Since they are water retainment ponds, I'm assuming that they collect excess water that has run off of some peoples lawns, and water from other places. If so, then the fertlizer that they put on their lawns is contributing to the high nutrient load and the weeds. The cattails in the one picture will completely encircle the pond in a number of years, making it impossible to fish from the bank. I'd work at removing a lot of those cattails, but that won't help the nutrient loading, in fact it'll make it worse. Decisions, decisions......

Before you start removing/adding fish, get a scale that will read in 10ths of a pound, and a good yardstick or ruler. On the pond that you want to manage for LMB, you need to start a log book. EVERY LMB that you catch, weigh and measure. Check in the archives here for the Relative weight chart for LMB. Check the fish against the chart. Do the same for the sunfish that you catch. The size of the sunfish will give us an idea what the LMB have to eat. What I'm saying next isn't written in stone, but this is what I'd do if it was my pond. If they are 110% or less than the listed weight for their length, then I'd start removing the lighter (skinnier) LMB. It might be that they have enough food to get to that size that you are catching, but not enough food to get bigger. Or, they could be that size because the pond winterkilled a few years ago. Ask the older guys if anybody remembers a winterkill on the pond.

If the LMB are over 110% WR, then I'd look into the BG population. What size are they? Again, catch and log sizes. LMB will eat fish up to 1/3 their body length, although slightly smaller fish will be preferred. The LMB don't chase really small fish once they get bigger, they like a larger meal for the energy that they expend catching it. Are the BG really BG or another sunfish species?

Fatheads will be a waste of $$ because of the fish that are already in the pond. It takes 10# of food to put one pound on one LMB. That 3# LMB had to eat at least 30# of food to get to be that big. When you multiply that by a lot of LMB in a pond, you can see that they can eat themselves out of house and home pretty quickly. So adding baitfish to a LMB heavy pond isn't a very wise choice if you want to grow large LMB, it's more cost effective to remove LMB.

I agree, let us know what the Maryland Fish & Game have to say about the population.

As for adding cover, go here find the water retention ponds and measure their size. You want to limit the amount of cover that you put in to around a maximum of 20% of the surface acreage. Too much cover will allow too many of the baitfish (i.e. bluegills) to hide, making them too hard to catch for the LMB.

Will this chart work: http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-1193/ANR-1193.pdf

General rule of thumb = no more than about 20% of pond area should be structure.

These might be a tad more accurate because they are from Northern waters (Pa) and not southern waters (AL) like the chart that you posted.

Beat ya to it Todd!

You beat me to the structure percentage, too! I didn't realize that was in your post before I posted - that's what I get for speed reading!

This may also be a good source of information for your project.

Manual of Fisheries Survey Methods II

Chapter 17 has a great deal of information on length/weight relationships.

Good luck on your project.

What a great line of information coming thru this topic. 123, you will get great help from these pros. I would like to address the structure materials. Your plan and list is the perfect way to start such a vigorous endevor. Try the local plumbers and building contractors for scrap pipe and wood products. We all end up with piles of cutoffs we save and never use. The lumberyard has all kinds of scrap and damaged lumber they give away. Also, all these guys can let you know when they have more. The plumbers all throw out used pvc pipe. With such a good cause, they will surely help. It can be an ongoing connection to more material.
Lastly, send me an e-mail through our site fishiding.com. We would be proud to donate some products for your project. The only catch is you have to take me fishing in a few years when you succeed!

Good info Peepaw.

I'll bet you could get a pallet manufacturer to donate pallets for forage structure. Probably could also get all the hardwood scraps they give away.

Todd, you just need a refresher course!
Reading help

Ouch.

We were both typing at the same time and I hit the sbmit button first?...but it must be extremely important or we wouldn't have thought of it at the same time!

Also, Would planting small rockpiles in the transition areas and in the deepest parts of the pond(S) help at all? May dad works on a Construction site and can probably get me some scrap wood and PVC pipe. Also, I had an idea of building aned putting together an artificial stump field made of scrap PVC pipe. The project has to last for at leas 2 saturdays, 9 hour days.

Any cover you put in the pond will help, just don't exceed the 20% rule by a bunch.

I've read through the entire thread (thus far) and think this is an awesome Eagle Scout project. My 10 yr-old son just "crossed over" into a Scout Troop. Our community has three detention ponds (all populated with fish) that we've discussed as a similar Eagle-project in a couple of years.
The portion of your introduction that caught my eye is below....

Hyacinth was included in your list of proposed plants. You better check out that plant very closely before proceeding. Winter temps at your latitude would likely prevent hyacinth from posing a problem - or benefit. Either way, it is on the Federal noxious/invasive specie list. As such, transporting and introducing it to new sites could pose issues.
Also, determine if any herbivores (fish, reptiles, invertebrates) currently exist in the ponds - in case they might interfere with different plant-culture introductions. In some cases, it may be necessary to construct enclosures to provide protection for newly stocked plants.

Kelly, could you weigh in on the cattails in the picture (good or bad)?

Right now the only reptiles that live in the ponds are a few snapping turtles and some water snakes. In terms of fish species there are catfish, Koi, bass, and bluegill. There are a few blue heron that visit the pond, there are also ducks and geese that come to the pond.

Also, I have caught a few bass from this pond with chunks taken from them..... I don't know if this means anything.

Personally, I don't care for cattails. Rarely is it a case of IF they'll pose a problem - but WHEN. But some folks like 'em - and that's fine. Cattails may offer some wildlife benefits. But, their benefit to fisheries is outweighed by their hindrance to fishermen. IMO, other forms of structure/cover are preferable - and pose less aerial obstructions to fishing.
Question: What do koi eat? Submersed vegetation? My son will put a slice of cucumber in his aquarium and the goldfish goes to town on it. Wondering if koi have similar feeding habits.

I'm with Kelly. I try to avoid cattails.

I could make part of the project taking them out.............. But its really shallow where they are now

Have any otters?

Beavers, there is a small beaver dam that was built and abandoned

NO not beavers...it's probably just scars from childhood

Is there anything else you guys reccomend I do to this pond? What should i do to improve the water clarity and water quality at this pond? also, Do you think I should install a fish feeder?

I am pretty sure that The bluegill that inhabit are both pure strain bluegill and pumpkinseed bluegill

How bout some good pics of everything.. Including satelite, dam, culverts, fish, anything.

Here is a quote from an article written about the ponds:

Alongside the main creek, the engineers constructed a series of four long catch basins and one large pond designed to absorb excess water when the creek rises to a certain point, and then release the water slowly as the runoff subsides, Twombly said. Sewer lines from the subdivision areas feed into either the creek or the catch basins.

The duck pond is another 200 yards downstream, he said. The creek feeds directly into that pond and is drained by a pipe at the lower end of the pond.

‘‘The entire system has drastically reduced the flooding,” he said. ‘‘Only in extremely strong, sustained downpours does the entire area flood. At those times, it is impossible to even tell where the duck pond is located. Downhill from the duck pond, the drainage enters a broad, flat floodplain that is consistently marshy and often has standing water.”

Twombly added that the ponds⁄basins support a diversity of animals (beaver and otters), birds (ducks and geese), plants (cattails and lily pads), amphibians (frogs) and fish (carp, sunfish and largemouth bass).

‘‘Unfortunately, the flow rate in all of the ponds is very low unless it rains, which allows a significant amount of algae to accumulate during dry spells,” he said. ‘‘Some trash also tends to accumulate in the stream itself as well as the ponds. The combination of algae and goose⁄duck excrement lends a somewhat ‘scummy’ quality to the ponds.

‘‘I am sure mosquitoes are able to breed in some sections of the ponds, though the marshy areas downstream are far more stagnant and do not have fish to feed on the larvae,” he added. ‘‘Whenever there is a major storm, much of the unwanted sediment and, hopefully, the mosquito larvae are flushed out of the system.”


THIS ARTICLE WAS WRITTEN 4 YEARS AGO, THE CONDITIONS HAVE SINCE GOTTEN MUCH BETTER

I cannot find any Satelite photos

Here is a video I made at the pond: http://sharing.theflip.com/session/11fe15658cda4422a0a658cd3d7c9983/video/28652231

This pretty much shows the hole pond....... This video was made in November

Tell us in the correct quadrant and I bet we can find it....

If I had to guess it would be in the 2nd C quadrant somewhere...... It's called the Only Mill Family park. This is the closest I could get to it : http://maps.google.com/maps?rlz=1T4GGLS_enUS402US402&q=Charline+Manor+Park+(Olney+Mill+Family+Park)&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl The blue thing is the pool, which the ponds are behind, but they aren't big enough to see on a map.

I was thinking about Planting trees around the shoreline to provide shade keeping water temps from getting too high. Should I look into planting a few catfish in each pond as an economical way to control those bluegill populations.

man i just spent about 30 minutes trying to find it.. What street is it on? I checked up and down charline manor rd. I also checked around all swimming pools i could find.. I need a little more info to find it..

Its behing the Olney mill swim club. the pool's address is:


3611 Briars Road - Olney, MD 20832


Just look at the video i posted and it should give you all the views and shots you need of the pond.

Channel cats will not provide much help in controlling a bluegill population. They would only serve the purpose of another species to catch. Which is fine if you think there is enough interest and there's no structure that would encourage spawning.

Your video doesn't details the ponds' sizes or orientation like an aerial image. The below images might help put things into perspective from a time-line standpoint and allow more accurate comments & suggestions.
What is glaringly obvious is the significant increase in shoreline trees and surface "weed" growth between 2006 and 2010. Appears to be a classic example of eutrophication.



BTW: Try switching to 8 or 10 lb mono on the spinning reel; and tie on a 6" smoke-gray Senko worm, "Texas rigged" (weedless) without a weight - worked slowly using a similar technique to that shown in your video.

Kelly, I'm sorry to say that is the one pond I am working on, the other one is only a little bit away from the ponds you found, you shouldn't have much trouble finding it, it A LOT bigger than the other pond.
What your doing I really appreciate!!!!!!!!!!!

I watched your video AFTER measuring the smaller pond, and realized I might have the wrong pond. The drain-inlet in the above aerial images didn't match the orientation of the drainage-inlet shown in your video.
The below images should be correct, since the drainage-inlet in this larger pond matches the position shown in your video. The image below taken in '08 was much sharper than the '10 image; plus the lack of tree-foilage in late April'08 allowed much better definition of the pond's perimeter.

Thanks alot Kelly, now that you have pictures of the ponds, what else would you reccomend I do?

Get vegetation and water quality under control first off..

I typed up a big "plan" last night after i finally found these ponds. As i was finishing up my power went out before i could post it. But it basically included the pics shown, and how the weeds have been taking over and progressing for the last few years. So i recommended taking care of the weed and water quality issues first..

Ok, whats the best way to improve the water quality? I'm buying a test kit to the test the water and will show you gus the results. I was thinking, maybe I could make a seine to filter what comes in and out of the drains, I really do not know what to do to improve the water quality, When it rains is when I think the pond is hurt the most because thats the time when stuff is coming in and out of the pond through the drain. On the topic of the weed issues, besides removing the cattails, what else do you recomend I should look into doing?

Identify your weeds by taking pics and comparing to past post see how they were dealt with then.. Usually herbicide will control your weeds. As far as water quality aeration, chemicals also look through the archives to see how people have improved there ponds in the past. Thats the thing thats great about this site, your not the first person to have this problem or have there problem answered on this site, so just check into it on the site to find out how to solve it.. then when theres questions directly related to your pond maybe we can help better..

A few random suggestions, in no particular order:
- ID the dominant and nuisance plant species within and bordering the pond. Determine which species are desirable and those that should be managed (reduced) through manual/mechanical or chemical means.
- Outline the specific needs and plans for fishery habitat enhancements based on the desired species and objectives, as well as for waterfowl and other wildlife.
- Consider manual thinning of willows(?) and other non-essential trees around the pond's perimeter, since they will otherwise pull large amounts of water from the pond during the summer through transpiration. Leaving several trees for shade/aesthetics is fine. Any shoreline trees that are removed should be recycled into fish-habitat.
- Prepare a sponsorship solicitation-flier to distribute in person, door-to-door (in uniform, of course), throughout the benefitted neighborhood - and even to adjacent businesses. Promote the home-value and kid-activity benefits of this enhanced amenity. Commit to publically recognizing those who financially support your project. Hosting a post-completion hot-dog cookout would provide an opportune time to do so, and might also foster community initiative/involvement and adoption for further upgrades (picnic tables, pavillions, etc).
- Get your troop-buddies fired up to assist with this project, since you'll likely need a fair amount of labor (make sure it is well organized in advance of scheduled work-days).

Ok, I did some research on the site and I have a question, Would cutrine-plus get rid of the green stuff that comes to the surface of the pond during the summer, how do I know if that is good for the pond?

That "green stuff" can be one of many things. It might be algae, or it could be a type of plant - or, it could be a combination. I've learned never to make assumptions.
More than likely, you're referring to a type of filamentous algae (many species exist).

However, duckweed and/or watermeal also fit the description of "green stuff".

Basically, if the "green stuff" is a type of filamentous algae, odds are that CUTRINE PLUS will help keep it in check with periodic treatments. But, nothing (legal) will get rid of it (permanently or long-term).
Unless you have some pictures of the green stuff from last summer; or unless you can positively ID it from these or other pictures, we'll need to wait and see exactly you're dealing with before a management approach may be suggested (which might include other options besides or in addition to chemical treatments).

Kelly, you have an awesome plant photo collection!

I wish the taxpayer supported websites had even a tenth as good of quality shots!

Thanks Rainman. Fortunately, my hobies complement my livelihood.
Btw - I began shrinking and "tagging" my pics when several of 'em mysteriously appeared on others' websites (some of which were competitors). Grrr!

Copyright infringement without a doubt...but I can hardly blame them. I'd gladly pay you for a set of identification pictures! For some reason, I just cant remember what the different plants look like.

By the looks of the pictures, I can tell that it is a mixture of duckweed and watermeal.

Assuming you're correct, the next step is to determine if any desireable plants exist within the pond. If so, the ideal approach would target only the invasive/undesirable species without affecting the well behaved plants.

Ok, I have attached a photo of the type of grass that I WANT to stay in the pond. I guess I could say its well behaved, its spread throughout the pond and gets real thick, but I catch nice bass flipping jigs into it and catch bass by using a frog over it. I don'yt know how much is a good amount to have, I would like to still have some in the pond. Also, who exactly do I need to talk with at the MD DNR aboit the electro shocking survey..........

That phrase usually doesn't describe a well behaved aquatic plant. I generally agree with many fishery biologists who say that 15-40% plant-coverage is the ideal range; although it varies with a lake's design, the types of plant(s) and the species of fish-inhabitants.
For urban "fishing ponds", alternating areas of open and vegetated shoreline would well serve both the fish and fishermen. But, a submerged plant like elodea doesn't always represent the best type of vegetation since it often expands far beyond the desired level of coverage. Long-leaf Pondweed would be a preferable specie, since reduced sunlight-penetration in deeper water tends to restrict its growth to shallow perimeters.
Altering the pond's established plant population may fall beyond the scope and feasibility of your project. But, it might be something to consider in the long-term; especially if a herbicide treatment that targets duckweed & watermeal might also curtail the elodea and allow the subsequent introduction and establishment of long-leaf pondweed.
I may be jumping ahead prematurely, since I don't know the pond's depth-profile - which affects where and how various aquatic plants will grow. A bathymentric assessment (basic diagram shown below) of the pond's depths would yield valuable information for considering both plant-management and structure-placement options. Are you in any position to secure such information (with appropriate assistance & supervison)?

Well, the deepest the pond gets is about 6 feet deep in the middle and towards the spillway and other than that the shallow flats are between 1 and two feet deep, so really anywhere in the pond can be 1 to 6 feet deep.

This graphic is probably overkill for a relatively small pond. But, it might lend some spice to your project's documentation. (Plus, I needed to test a method for laying a grid over a pond's outline.)

It sounds like much of the pond is prone to expansive plant-growth during the summer due to the nature of its depth-design and primary function. Also, since your budget is limited and frequent water-transitions are likely (rainfall run-off), the most cost-effective herbicide treatments would prove challenging. Manual thinning of the elodeo might be the best option. But, don't let it get too far ahead of you before using a rope and grapple-hook.

Kelly you are right on ther money, In the summer without rain the elodea and duckweed, mostly the elodea gets thick rain when it doesn't rain and the water drops, but them is completely gone for 2 to 3 days after the rain, then grows back. How do you get rid of elodea manually, that might make for a really good part of my project. By the way thanks for the drawings and pics, I'm going to use themin my project presentation. I do wamt to keep some of it for the bass to get up under, but I would really want the elodea on the shallow flats to be gone, I don't mind it in the deeper water so much. By the way, how do I do a bathymentric assesment? Who should i talk too? I want to, if possible scatter the structure throughout the shallow and deep parts of the pond if appropriate.

Ok, I did the relative weight measurement for the one bass I caught in the pond, the 3.24 pounder I was talking about earlier that was 18 inches long, and from the chart an 18 inch bass should weigh 3.2 pounds.

Just over 100%. See if all sizes/lengths are near 100%.

RW charts from the aechives.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=160456#Post160456

Should I install fish feeders, that are solar powered

Your talking big money.. And they could be vandalized or stolen..

Ok, I was thinking of buying this one with the grant money from the Chesapeake bay foundation: http://www.moultriefeeders.com/productdetail.aspx?id=mfh-ps1

I shoulda said they WILL be vandalized and stolen. I dont think feeders have a place on public properties thats my opinion. I would spend the money in better places..

I spoke to my scout master last night and he is totally on board with my project and thinks it is perfect.

Do a budget for what you intend to do. Know what you hope to accomplish and measure the results during the plan. You do realize that feeding is not an on and off matter. Once you start a feeding program it needs to be continued or the increase in fish mass has to be removed (harvest or predation)in order to avoid starving fish (un-balanced fishery).

This is the response I got from the association about the ponds:

Dear PJ,

Your plans sound very interesting and ambitious. The problem I see is that the Maryland National Capital Parks and Planning Commission (MNCPPC), which owns the park and ponds, would likely be reluctant to let you proceed with what you propose. There are all kinds of regulations and agencies that control how stormwater management is handled, given that the pond and creek drain into the Pautuxent watershed. This is part of our problem with the Duck Pond engineering. All I can suggest is that you write up a brief proposal, which I can pass along to the MNCPPC administration. They would have to give official approval before you could even think of applying for a grant.

Dennis Twombly
President, OMCA

Can you guys help me with my proposal?

,

Knowing that all Eagle Scout requirements and the Eagle Project must be completed before your 18th birthday how much time do you have to complete your project? Or asked another way "How old are you"?

This might be a very important given the slowness of getting approval from some governmental agencies.

I am 15 years old

Any one else outh there?

I would suggest you start compiling all the information you have been given from here. Then one of us that has experience writing a proposal should be willing to help you put it all together.

I would suggest following this as a guide to what you need to accomplish Writing a proposal

Before writing the actual content put together an outline of what you want to say. For example:

Executive Summary -

1. Enhance Pond Conditions
   
   1. Remove detrimental material
      
      • Reduce plant and structure coverage to 20% total area
        
      • Remove plants that hamper fishing and public utilizations
        
      • Survey and remove excessive fish population
        
   2. Create hiding and living structures for fish species
      
      • Plant non-invasive grass species that encourage fish spawning and increase survival chances for fry
        
      • Introduce artificial structures to provide year round support for fish species
        
2. Improve area around ponds
   
   1. Remove excess grass from banks
      
   2. Trim back some tree coverage to encourage public access
      
3. Project results
   
   1. Improved fish population and sizes
      
   2. Public finds it more appealing
      

Now this example is very rough grabbing somethings from your thread as well as using what little knowledge I have. One thing you must remember throughout this document is that you are selling this to them. You must write this in such a way that they want to come out and volunteer to help you with the project.

I would say the best thing to do with something like this is to do an entire presentation. You give them the proposal at the same time you stand in front of them and present it. You guide them through the proposal and paint a picture of what can see for these ponds. It has that human element that makes the see you actually care to get this project done and not just that you are looking for another pin to earn your Eagle Scout.

If you do get a chance to present it to them practice in front of your troop or at least some of the leadership as well as parents and possibly some of the locals in the area. Doing it in front of some of the community leaders and residents might even allow you to get them to sign a petition agreeing to support what you want to do.

Since you are 15 you have some time to work on this and do the research. That is a lot of what you are going to have to do for the proposal. How will it impact the ponds, the purpose of the ponds, the community, and the ecology nearby.


This is some off the cuff information and I am sure some of the others here are willing to offer you some more advice. Use it all and don't be afraid to keep trying if your first try isn't successful.

Nick

Well said.

Thanks. I hope the information proves to be useful and he is able to do something with those ponds.

One thing that I thought of later on is that if at first you don't get approval for altering the ponds that you temporarily reduce your scope and proposal to trimming back the trees cleaning up the brush and making the area right around the ponds more attractive. Organizing some community involvement (even if at first it is just your troop) will allow you to snap some photos of the area. I would do some before and after shots.

If you look through this site you will see some before shots of peoples ponds and then the after shots of them just cleaning up some brush and trimming/thinning out some trees. It makes a world of difference just in the appeal.

I would then set out a campaign promoting people to utilize the area for fishing/picnicking and start snapping photos.

Then when you go back with your proposal you can show them. Here is what a weekend's worth of labor and some maintenance has garnered us. A much more appealing area. Then show them pictures of how the pond still looks and suggest that if the same effort was put forth for the ponds it will make them more attractive as well.

If some of the folks here are willing to share pictures of their own ponds or even local pond they have worked with that were in bad shape to start with and the shape they are now in you can also you those as argument points.

Also do some research into the purpose of the ponds and highlight how you will not be altering the fundamental purpose of the pond. Getting some local ecology and biology experts on board for the proposed changes for things such as reducing the fish population and introducing helpful plants will also gain you points.

As I said before do the research and put the time in it and I am sure not only will I be willing to help you but I am sure you will see an outpouring of effort from people on these forums and the people in your community.

I will tell you what. I develop website for a living and I will willingly get a domain, hosting, and website developed if you show me that you are putting the time and effort into this. We can talk about what content will be on the website for the project at that point.

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been back in a while, I had to put the project on hold for a little bit

Here is a picture of some of the grass in the pond

Here is some info That I got from a meeting about one of the ponds in september:
- Creek channel runs outside of the island
- Too small for stormwater management
- An inline pond
- WILL NOT be dreged
- Considered a sediment pond
- Water has to flow through the pond
- The Parks and planning's plan is to reconnect the stream by the pond to get the water to move
- Considered a Regulatory wet land
- No large sediment source
- In 1996 there was a metal outlet structure in order to retro fit it
- Used to be deep enough where it was not considered a wetland
- Pond is in a flood plain
- The parks wants it to be a Meto management area
- Sediment is from development in 1970s
- Used to be desilted
- Failing emergency spillway

More pictures

Here is a letter about the ponds: http://www.montgomeryplanningboard.org/agenda/2011/documents/20111013_ICC_Stewardship_Attachment.pdf

Scanned. On smartphone and not an expert; but have to ask about 6 foot depth being deep enough to avoid winterkill in MD. Would he go to all that work only to have periodic kills?