Pond Boss
Posted By: Rangersedge Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/14/22 01:30 AM
Have about 77 chestnut trees (about 14 producing), 12 apple trees producing, a couple pear trees, several persimmon and mulberry trees. I do not have enough experience yet to conclusively say if helps as much as advertised; but we have lots of grain crops, oak trees, and such in this area. What are everyones' thoughts? Are they worth the cost and effort?
Posted By: RAH Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/14/22 01:39 AM
In my opinion, every bit of wildlife habitat restoration is a step in the right direction.
Posted By: Pat Williamson Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/14/22 05:57 AM
Originally Posted by Rangersedge
Have about 77 chestnut trees (about 14 producing), 12 apple trees producing, a couple pear trees, several persimmon and mulberry trees. I do not have enough experience yet to conclusively say if helps as much as advertised; but we have lots of grain crops, oak trees, and such in this area. What are everyones' thoughts? Are they worth the cost and effort?
We have started planting some chestnut trees for wildlife (deer) and with the drought these last few years have lost about half of them some to deer crashing through the wire cages and some to harvester ants defoliating all the leaves the first spring….. having a tough time trying to get them established….. at 35$ to 50$ each…… we have planted one Japanese persimmon and hopefully this next spring it will fruit out we will see
Posted By: RAH Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/14/22 10:13 AM
Are the new chestnuts immune to blight? I thought that the only truly immune varieties are yet to be approved by regulators?
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/14/22 12:19 PM
Several years ago, I raised about 20 pecan trees from nuts. When they got about 3 years old, I planted them. None made it. OTOH, I did it at a rent house that I own. That worked because I could more easily water them during crucial times while deep roots were developing.
Posted By: Rangersedge Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/14/22 02:57 PM
On the chestnuts, I purchased about 20 of them ($20 - $40 each). I put several on island in big pond (along with with some apple, pear, and other trees). Watered whenever could (either buckets or water pump) for first couple years. Most survived. Pretty much neglected for a few years. A couple got damaged by the tree tube from menards. Those damaged trunks died; but a ton of sprouts generated from base that grew fast and have yielded nuts. Gathered about a 100 nuts last year. Found a video where guy drills holes in bottom of 5 gl bucket, then alternates layers of sand and nuts, wets it down, puts a lid on it, and buries it over the winter in mound of dirt. I did that. Dug it up last spring and had eighty some chestnuts sprouting. I transferred to pots with planting soil, kept watered over summer, and transplanted the 61 that remained (gave several away) last weekend. My back still hurts. Will they make it? I don't know. I think most will. They are close enough to another one of our ponds that I should be able to warer them at least a couple times next summer. The dirt isn't very good; but we wouldn't be putting the trees there if it were prime farmland. I bought some tubes I need to get over them to help protect them from deer.

I didn't check for harvesting nuts in timely manner this year. Ground covered in husks; but only about 30 nuts. Raccoon or something beat me to most of them.

I saved seeds from bunch of disease resistant apples this year. Thinking about trying them and the 30 or so chestnuts I did get. Don't know.
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/14/22 03:42 PM
I read a good article from a wildlife habitat expert (mostly focused on deer). He is frequently asked, "What is the best thing to grow for habitat?"

He said that there is no perfect answer - but the best things to add to your habitat are the things you are MISSING on your property!

If you have zero mast trees, add a variety of those. If you have hard mast trees (acorns and chestnuts), add some soft mast fruit trees. If you have no water supply on your property, add a small pond. If you have no deep shelter, plant some shrubs and form thickets. If you have no row crops, keep your feeders operating for most or all of the year.

That sounded like excellent advice to me.

Of course, not being an expert, I wasn't exactly sure what I was missing the most, but I have read lots of posts from the good habitat people on Pond Boss and gained more knowledge in that area.
Posted By: Augie Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/14/22 04:40 PM
I planted four Dunstan Chestnut saplings last spring. I'm pretty sure two of them are toast.
I'll replace the dead ones and add a few more new ones come spring.

I put 60-some Burr Oak acorns in starter cells and in a wire cage in the greenhouse a few weeks back.
Last winter I skipped the wire cage part and the squirrels swiped every single nut.
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/14/22 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by Augie
I put 60-some Burr Oak acorns in starter cells and in a wire cage in the greenhouse a few weeks back.
Last winter I skipped the wire cage part and the squirrels swiped every single nut.

I tried just the opposite.

The squirrels plant several hundred bur oak acorns in my yard in the city every year. I have tried to dig up the saplings and replant them at the farm. However, they typically have a tap root that goes straight down at least a foot.

I almost always break the tap root, which causes the replanted tree to die.

I suspect there is a perfect date to dig up the saplings, probably right when the leaves first erupt from the soil.

I love the 140-year-old bur oaks in our yard, but they take a loooong time to mature in Kansas. I have switched to planting hybrid white oak trees at our farm because they should be able to produce acorns at a much earlier age. I have two hybrids that have produced acorns during Year 3. (They were about 24" tall when planted.)

I have added several other types of hybrid oaks in recent years, and am hoping for similar good results so I can plant more of the varieties that are flourishing in our tough conditions.
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/14/22 05:14 PM
We did plant six chestnuts a few years ago.

Drought is a more common problem than extreme wetness at our farm, so I planted all of the trees in a depression in an attempt to channel a little more water to the trees.

Of course, the first spring and summer were very wet at our property. I lost 5 out of 6 trees. I believe the problem was several months of water saturated soil did not allow enough oxygen and the roots subsequently died.

If you are in an area with good annual rainfall, you may need to plant your chestnuts on slightly elevated ground for them to thrive.
Posted By: Rangersedge Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/14/22 07:04 PM
Good points. I'm not sure that our properties are missing any of those things. It is probably more of a way to congregat the deer a bit at certain times.
Posted By: DrLuke Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/14/22 07:19 PM
We have two, mature Chinese chestnut trees. They produce mast every year (the nut husk is covered in spikes that would make a porcupine proud). The pods pop open and drop out 3-4 chestnuts. The deer absolutely love them. We have lots of burr oak as well. I have observed deer preferentially eating hickory nuts in our hunting timber. We have smooth bark hickory around here.
I have also planted some Dunstan chestnuts, and 3 of the 4 are close to mast bearing size (took about 5 years). Dunstan's are blight resistant. American Chestnuts were all but wiped out by a blight, but a blight resistant cultivar is being worked on still. Chinese chestnuts are also blight resistant.
I think FishinRod is on to something, re: adding some forage or cover that wasn't available before helps attract more wildlife.
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/14/22 07:23 PM
Originally Posted by Rangersedge
Good points. I'm not sure that our properties are missing any of those things. It is probably more of a way to congregat the deer a bit at certain times.

If everyone around you has good deer habitat, then you need to make sure you have BETTER habitat. Especially at the time of the year that you wish to draw the deer over to your property.

I think RAH has done that at his place. He has created a small sanctuary at his place to draw them in during the peak of hunting season.
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/14/22 07:25 PM
I’ve learned, on pecans, to soak the nuts for a week or so.
Then put about 10 scattered around in a 5 gallon bucket with the pointed end up and barely protruding. Some will sprout. After some time, eliminate all but one. Replant it. Keep it watered for the first year or so until the root system fully develops. Then replant it. Try to pick a low spot where water naturally collects after a rain.

I have 2 that have worked out well but I planted them in town at a rent house that I could keep up with the watering when required. And, no deer ate the tops out of them.
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/14/22 07:37 PM
Originally Posted by Dave Davidson1
And, no deer ate the tops out of them.

Yes, I have learned this lesson the hard way.

I have deer cam pics of deer standing on their hind legs eating the tops off of my trees after they cleared a 5' tree tube.

Even eating just 8" off the top has caused the entire main leader to die. If the tree is very healthy, then I have had re-growth from the base of the tree. Some of those trees have eventually thrived but it took a lot of TLC.

Much better to keep the deer out of the trees!
Posted By: RAH Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/14/22 07:56 PM
My solution is to have so much food that my new plantings get minimal pressure. We have losses, but we plant a lot and accept that only some will survive. We (my wife) grow most from seed and we plant at least 100 bare-root seedlings from the DNR each year. I also try to tag out on does every year. Still need a muzzleloader doe to tag out this year, so I will be out there when the season comes in. Even so, we have a lot of deer. Trying to keep lots of smaller bucks for future years. My herd control is mainly to reduce the chances of a disease epidemic. I really only have one person hunting adjacent land that is like minded, so it is an uphill battle. On a positive note, I only found one small buck dead on my property so far this year, but that was before gun season started...
Posted By: Gpugh Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/15/22 01:23 AM
Ok, now I am confused. I have lots of chestnut trees here, I actually call them buckeyes, as Dr Luke described, the mast has spiked balls with the buckeyes inside it, are these true chestnuts?? my wife and I collect them and give them away as good luck pieces. I know people can’t eat them but I didn’t know deer ate them, I have hundreds of them here in Central Mo. actually Johnson county Mo. if these are the same as what you all are planting, and you want any, let me know and I will be happy to send you any seeds you want.
Posted By: Rangersedge Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/15/22 01:33 AM
I suspect those are horse chestnuts.

https://www.anses.fr/en/content/how-avoid-confusing-horse-chestnuts-sweet-chestnuts#:~:text=Sweet%20chestnuts%20are%20edible%2C%20but,involve%20horse%20and%20sweet%20chestnuts.
Posted By: Gpugh Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/15/22 01:40 AM
Can you eat em??
Posted By: Rangersedge Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/15/22 02:02 AM
Yes; but the horse chestnuts are poisonous so don't recommend it!

The sweet chestnuts are good to eat though.
Posted By: Rangersedge Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/15/22 02:04 AM
https://friendsoftrees.org/blog/delicious-or-deadly-a-tale-of-two-chestnuts/
Posted By: Rangersedge Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/15/22 02:05 AM
https://www.poison.org/articles/horse-chestnuts-are-toxic-214
Posted By: Rangersedge Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/15/22 02:53 AM
Gpugh: Sorry for smart aleck comment earlier. The sweet chestnuts are great for wildlife and humans to eat. The horse chestnuts are poisonous for humans. I don't know if wildlife eat them or not. I think; but don't know, that horse chestnuts may also be called buckeyes. I remember being given one while a young kid and cautioned not to eat it. I thought it was the neatest thing and kept it for years. Now, I don't know if they have any real redeeming value.

I would check out the type of chestnuts you do have. If they are sweet chestnuts, you are one lucky dude! :-)
Posted By: Gpugh Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/15/22 03:11 AM
Rangers edge,
No need to apologize for the comment, I surely did not take it as a smart aleck comment. What I have here are the buckeyes, I looked them up and they are not edible. I do have one that my wife’s grandfather gave me about 40 years ago, he had it since he was a kid, so it’s about 100 years old, he said to carry it for good luck, but don’t eat it, they are poisonous. I am going to keep looking here for the sweet chestnuts, who knows, might be some mixed in with the buckeyes.
Thank you for the verification, the offer still stands if anybody want any of these, like I said, I have lots of them here in Missouri. Don’t know what people would do with them, but they are here if anybody wants some
Gregg
Posted By: RAH Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/15/22 10:56 AM
If you are talking about Ohio Buckeye, then only squirrels supposedly eat them. They do bloom with nice yellow flowers early in spring which helps bees and such. https://naturalresources.extension.iastate.edu/forestry/iowa_trees/trees/ohio_buckeye.html
https://naturesmace.com/do-deer-eat-buckeyes/
Posted By: Pat Williamson Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/15/22 03:22 PM
Originally Posted by DrLuke
We have two, mature Chinese chestnut trees. They produce mast every year (the nut husk is covered in spikes that would make a porcupine proud). The pods pop open and drop out 3-4 chestnuts. The deer absolutely love them. We have lots of burr oak as well. I have observed deer preferentially eating hickory nuts in our hunting timber. We have smooth bark hickory around here.
I have also planted some Dunstan chestnuts, and 3 of the 4 are close to mast bearing size (took about 5 years). Dunstan's are blight resistant. American Chestnuts were all but wiped out by a blight, but a blight resistant cultivar is being worked on still. Chinese chestnuts are also blight resistant.
I think FishinRod is on to something, re: adding some forage or cover that wasn't available before helps attract more wildlife.
Dr Luke do the deer eat the burr oak acorns? We planted some Dunstan chestnut an had a hard Time with them te first summer drought keeping them watered. This is the first year that we have had any acorns due to freeze -1 and next 2years of drought. Deer are passing the feeders for corn and protein going after acorns ( great news) keeping the slaughter down a bit from our neighbors who pay no attention to laws at all.
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/15/22 11:07 PM
Originally Posted by Pat Williamson
Dr Luke do the deer eat the burr oak acorns?

Deer are passing the feeders for corn and protein going after acorns ( great news) keeping the slaughter down a bit from our neighbors who pay no attention to laws at all.

I have dumped huge mounds of bur oak acorns at our farm. They were all gone before I put up a camera. (I think they were eaten by the deer.)

We have another bumper crop of bur oak acorns in the city this year. I will do another dump this fall and make sure the camera is in place!

If they are a greatly preferred food, I could dump them right before opening day. (I believe that is legal in Kansas, but will have to check.)
Posted By: gehajake Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/16/22 12:12 AM
Deer will eat the heck out of Burr Oak acorns, I have some in my woods but mostly White Oaks, which they love even more. And we have had a bumper crop this yr, I am not sure I've ever seen more White Oak acorns then what I've seen this yr.
If you can find a Burr Oak tree to dump them under, I would think it would be pretty hard to get in too much trouble for putting them out. they would have to actually see you do it to be able to assume you did anything wrong. just don't get your species of trees mixed up and dump them under the wrong tree. when they find the deer feeding on a pile of Burr Oak acorns under a walnut tree they get suspicious.
The Turkeys however seem to prefer the smaller acorns from various other species of Oaks we have.
Posted By: catscratch Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/16/22 04:25 PM
Originally Posted by FishinRod
Originally Posted by Pat Williamson
Dr Luke do the deer eat the burr oak acorns?

Deer are passing the feeders for corn and protein going after acorns ( great news) keeping the slaughter down a bit from our neighbors who pay no attention to laws at all.

I have dumped huge mounds of bur oak acorns at our farm. They were all gone before I put up a camera. (I think they were eaten by the deer.)

We have another bumper crop of bur oak acorns in the city this year. I will do another dump this fall and make sure the camera is in place!

If they are a greatly preferred food, I could dump them right before opening day. (I believe that is legal in Kansas, but will have to check.)

It is legal in KS. You can dump anything you want and hunt over it (for deer, migratory birds are another matter).

Deer love Burr acorns. We also have native Chinkapin and DCO that the deer love. Sawtooth also.

I have Chinese Chestnut trees growing but there have been some setbacks and they are going slow. I hope to get some production out of them in the next few years.
Posted By: DrLuke Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/16/22 06:40 PM
Originally Posted by Pat Williamson
Originally Posted by DrLuke
We have two, mature Chinese chestnut trees. They produce mast every year (the nut husk is covered in spikes that would make a porcupine proud). The pods pop open and drop out 3-4 chestnuts. The deer absolutely love them. We have lots of burr oak as well. I have observed deer preferentially eating hickory nuts in our hunting timber. We have smooth bark hickory around here.
I have also planted some Dunstan chestnuts, and 3 of the 4 are close to mast bearing size (took about 5 years). Dunstan's are blight resistant. American Chestnuts were all but wiped out by a blight, but a blight resistant cultivar is being worked on still. Chinese chestnuts are also blight resistant.
I think FishinRod is on to something, re: adding some forage or cover that wasn't available before helps attract more wildlife.
Dr Luke do the deer eat the burr oak acorns? We planted some Dunstan chestnut an had a hard Time with them te first summer drought keeping them watered. This is the first year that we have had any acorns due to freeze -1 and next 2years of drought. Deer are passing the feeders for corn and protein going after acorns ( great news) keeping the slaughter down a bit from our neighbors who pay no attention to laws at all.



Yep. They prefer white oak and pin oak acorns at our place, but definitely eat the burr oak acorns too. You known how it is, you only eat the plain potato chips once the doritos are all gone...
Posted By: SetterGuy Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/18/22 01:59 PM
We have lots of oak and hickory. A few walnuts, but maples are taking over.
Our oaks are all kinds. Lots of red oak, white oak, some post oaks, I believe some bur oaks. Two types of hickory’s. I’ve thought about adding chestnut trees, but I’m not up there enough to keep them watered. We’ve got some food plots (winter rye and turnips) that look like putting greens. The deer are always in them. Other plots aren’t getting enough sun. Plus the drought has them looking pretty weak. With converting 9 ac of beans to CRP this spring, I’m concerned with keeping the deer around like the soybeans did. They really hammered them.
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/19/22 11:13 AM
I’m impressed with turnips but don’t eat them. I planted them one year and the deer ignored everything else until they had cleaned out the turnips.
Posted By: Pat Williamson Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/20/22 09:36 PM
Originally Posted by Dave Davidson1
I’m impressed with turnips but don’t eat them. I planted them one year and the deer ignored everything else until they had cleaned out the turnips.
We tried the turnip thing and they smoked them as soon as they came up. We have way to many deer to hardly grow anything crept winter wheat which takes them about a week to flatten them
Posted By: Rangersedge Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/25/22 02:37 PM
They're ignoring our turnips yet that came up volunteer from last year's food plot.

I've kept out about 200 apple and pear seeds which I'm thinking about planting. Anyone ever have much luck doing thst and having those trees have good apples?
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/25/22 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by Rangersedge
I've kept out about 200 apple and pear seeds which I'm thinking about planting. Anyone ever have much luck doing thst and having those trees have good apples?

Are you talking about apples "good" enough for wildlife, or for human consumption?

I believe the best practice for human fruit trees is to graft a tasty variety of pear or apple onto a very rugged root stock. If you are going to go that route, make sure you plant varieties of apples or pears that are matched to your region. (For example, you must have fire blight resistant pear trees if you are in an area where it is common, etc.)

If you are just growing for wildlife, then I think it would be a fun project to start seedlings in your house. I did acorns with my kids and they enjoyed the project and got the positive feedback to their work as they observed the saplings thriving.

There are some actual tree experts on the forum, so if you are doing seeds to trees as a BIG project on your property, hopefully they will drop into your post.
Posted By: Rangersedge Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/26/22 12:16 AM
"Planted" 32 chestnut seeds and the 200 or so apple / pear seeds today in 5 gallon bucket (with holes cut near bottom) of sand (layer of sand, layer of nuts, layer of sand, etc.). Wet it down some, put a lid on, and buried it in a dirt mound for the winter. We'll see how it worked next spring. It worked well for chestnuts last winter.
Posted By: Rangersedge Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/26/22 12:17 AM
Apples / pears would be just for wildlife. Actually, chestnuts are too.
Posted By: Augie Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/28/22 06:17 PM
Originally Posted by Rangersedge
I've kept out about 200 apple and pear seeds which I'm thinking about planting. Anyone ever have much luck doing thst and having those trees have good apples?

I've grown peach trees from seed with good results. I just toss em on top of the ground in the fall. They will sprout on the surface come spring and start putting out roots. Dig them when the seedlings are ~6" tall and put in pots for the first summer so you can keep them safe and well-watered. Transplant in the fall or bury the pots in mulch and wait until the next spring to set them out.

I've not tried it with apples or pears but there's a ton of info on the interwebs about how to do it.
Posted By: catscratch Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/28/22 08:29 PM
Originally Posted by Augie
Originally Posted by Rangersedge
I've kept out about 200 apple and pear seeds which I'm thinking about planting. Anyone ever have much luck doing thst and having those trees have good apples?

I've grown peach trees from seed with good results. I just toss em on top of the ground in the fall. They will sprout on the surface come spring and start putting out roots. Dig them when the seedlings are ~6" tall and put in pots for the first summer so you can keep them safe and well-watered. Transplant in the fall or bury the pots in mulch and wait until the next spring to set them out.

I've not tried it with apples or pears but there's a ton of info on the interwebs about how to do it.

Do peaches stay true to parent form? I know when I plant apples and pears I look for very specific disease resistance and drop dates, which you can't control by planting seed as they don't stay close parent form.
Posted By: RAH Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/28/22 10:25 PM
If you want access to truly blight resistant chestnuts, make a positive comment to the USDA environmental impact statement. https://www.regulations.gov/documen...SXbeuLVVea0E6-nCc61kuBzsfzpFx6cx-RL0tETg
Posted By: Augie Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/29/22 02:57 PM
Originally Posted by catscratch
Do peaches stay true to parent form?


I can't definitively answer that, but I'm leaning towards a no.

I've sprouted peaches three times using the seeds from Arkansas-grown peaches that I bought at the Amish grocery.
I have no idea what variety they were, but the trees that grew from them produced fabulous peaches. The oldest of
them are getting on towards 15 years of age. I lost one to blight and there's another that's probably not going to leaf
out come spring.

Peaches are tough to grow here even when you buy good quality nursery stock. I think our tight clay soils don't agree with them.

Of the ten peach trees I have here now, eight of them were grown from seed. The other two are what's left of seven
nursery stock trees, and neither of those are very healthy now. Might get two or three more years out of them before they croak.


On the bright side, yesterday I ordered a ten-pack of Dunstan chestnut trees for spring delivery.
www.chestnuthilloutdoors.com

Brighter yet, blight-resistant Ozark Chinquapin trees have been discovered in the Misery/Arky/Okie Ozarks.
Efforts have been underway for several years to propagate these trees.

Ozark Chinquapin Foundation
National Geographic article
Posted By: RAH Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/29/22 06:16 PM
Hopefully, they get some transformed with the oxalate-oxidase-enzyme gene so that they can survive and thrive!
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/29/22 11:01 PM
I planted five American Chinquapins on my farm when I first started planting trees. I thought I was far enough west of the natural range that they might never be subject to the blight. (Unless it travelled with the saplings.)

Unfortunately, only one of them is still growing. The other four were quickly eaten by the deer. I have had lots of trees in tree tubes on the farm, and the deer have nibbled tops and knocked down a few tubes. However, none of my other tree species suffered 80% deer consumption in the first year.

I don't know if the problem was my planting technique, or if the deer especially loved to browse on chinquapins. If the surviving shrub does manage to produce a good nut crop at maturity, then I think I will try some more in the future.
Posted By: Pat Williamson Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/30/22 01:44 PM
All our trees had to be surrounded by wire and staked down to keep some alive from deer eating them
Posted By: Rangersedge Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 12/02/22 11:04 PM
RAH: Comment in favor of deregulation posted. Thanks!
Posted By: Rangersedge Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 01/25/23 01:54 AM
RAH: Do you know if sale of the genetic modified chestnuts was approved?
Posted By: RAH Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 01/25/23 12:23 PM
The anti-GMO activists are still slowing the regulatory approval process for Darling 58 chestnuts. https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/newsroom/stakeholder-info/sa_by_date/sa-2022/suny-chestnut Once approved, it will be years before there will be enough for folks like you and me. https://www.esf.edu/chestnut/progress-report/2021.htm
Posted By: Rangersedge Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 04/30/23 11:49 PM
Update: I waited too late to retrieve & open the bucket. Probably had a couple hundred very spindly apple / pear sprouts that broke easily. I think there may only about ten viable after trying to transplant. Only two of the dunstan chestnuts have sprouted so far. Don't understand that. May just plant a lot of seeds direct next year and hope they come up.
Posted By: catscratch Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 05/01/23 02:39 AM
Pretty good start on our Dunstan Chestnuts, about 70% germination rate. Chinkapin and Sawtooth are close to 100%.

For the apple from seed guys. Most I know who grow apples from seed use crabapple. I believe they are more successful with those than full sized apples.

Attached picture Screenshot_20230430_213534_Gallery.jpg
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 05/01/23 02:58 AM
Awesome job, catscratch.

That looks like many, many successful projects in your classroom!
Posted By: Rangersedge Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 08/09/23 12:52 AM
Update:
The seed starts for this year are pretty much a bust. One place recommended soaking the seeds briefly in a bleach solution. That is the main thing I did differently this year vs last.
The seedlings from last year that I transplanted are doing far better than anticipated. We transplanted them into an area of heavy clay soil that doesn't grow much well. Then we didn't water them at all even during several very dry periods. Surprisingly, most survived and some are now near the tops of the tree tubes.
Some of my more mature chestnuts appear loaded so will probably try again.
On the down side... I tried some prepared chestnuts. They were like icky mush with little taste. Hopefully, not all are like that. If so, they'll definitely be for wildlife only and I'll plant more pecans for myself.
Posted By: RAH Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 08/10/23 01:16 AM
Support the Darling GM chestnut. I am too old to see the results, but this is a good thing.
Posted By: Pat Williamson Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 08/12/23 10:22 PM
We been trying to get dunstan chestnut trees to survive here and so far not so good , to dry and sandy to be able to water enough with over a month of 100 degree plus days and three months of no rain
Posted By: canyoncreek Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 08/13/23 01:48 AM
I signed up to get emails about the Darling GM project. This sounds like a great project and I hope it can get through the red tape to get final approval. Thanks RAH.

I think buying some dunstan trees would be good for our area where we are trying to attract deer. Thanks!
Posted By: esshup Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 08/13/23 01:54 AM
https://www.treepro.com/chestnut-trees

Get the tree tubes too.
Posted By: Augie Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 08/15/23 03:15 PM
I've done two plantings of Dunstan Chestnut. Four trees spring of '22, ten trees spring of '23.

One of the first four made it a year in good condition. One died and the other two aren't doing well.
Was my fault for not watering them consistently during the heat of summer last year.

Six of the ten I planted this year are up and out of their grow tubes. I improved my irrigation setup in the spring,
which got them through the early drought we had here. I'll buy another ten pack in the fall for spring planting.
Three to fill out the grove, two to replace the ones that aren't healthy, and a handful of spares to heel in as backups.

I'll build cages around the good ones before winter but I won't pull the tubes until they've leafed out in the spring.
The dang deers will eat a young tree down to a nub so protection is necessary until they've sized up quite a bit.

[Linked Image from hosting.photobucket.com]
Posted By: canyoncreek Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 08/15/23 05:26 PM
Beautiful!! Any advice on location (sun, shade, direction of sun, soil types?)
Posted By: Augie Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 08/15/23 09:32 PM
Mine are planted in full sun. The soil where they are growing is ~8" loam topsoil over clay pan.
I dug the planting holes ~24" diameter x 16" deep and mixed plenty of compost into the soil when I backfilled.
I've fertilized twice this season with a quart of 13-13-13 spread around the base of each tree.
In my (very limited) experience with this species it's important to be semi-consistent with the watering.
They don't like to dry out to the point of wilting, and they REALLY don't like being over-watered.
Posted By: canyoncreek Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 08/16/23 02:03 AM
Thanks! Esshup, similar instructions for the hybrid chestnut in the link that you shared? your link doesn't seem to be of the dunstan type.
Posted By: esshup Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 08/16/23 02:59 PM
Originally Posted by canyoncreek
Thanks! Esshup, similar instructions for the hybrid chestnut in the link that you shared? your link doesn't seem to be of the dunstan type.

Those hybrids aren't a Dunstan. They are a cross between American Chestnut and Chinese Chestnut, They do well in zone 4-9 and I can attest that they are fast growers, growing out of the tree tube that they furnish with them in 2 years. Their tree tubes are different than most, as they condense water vapor at night to help water the trees. I put this up here because they are a very fast growing chestnut tree, and should start producing nuts in 3-5 years post planting.
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 08/16/23 03:15 PM
I’ve propagated roses several times from cuttings started out in a cup of water. This year, so far, one has survived and uncertain about it. I’m about to try again.

I have 2 large and one small blackberry patch that birds have to take responsibility for. Trying cuttings here also.

Currently keeping a big bunch of wild plums in moist paper in the bottom of the refrigerator. Then inside a plastic bag. Directions on the web says keep them there for 3 to 6 months(depending on which web site you believe), and they should sprout roots. These are wild plums from the sides of the road. There are plenty of them but I want to try to do my own. Wife says I’m nuts.
Posted By: esshup Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 08/16/23 03:35 PM
Originally Posted by Dave Davidson1
I’ve propagated roses several times from cuttings started out in a cup of water. This year, so far, one has survived and uncertain about it. I’m about to try again.

I have 2 large and one small blackberry patch that birds have to take responsibility for. Trying cuttings here also.

Currently keeping a big bunch of wild plums in moist paper in the bottom of the refrigerator. Then inside a plastic bag. Directions on the web says keep them there for 3 to 6 months(depending on which web site you believe), and they should sprout roots. These are wild plums from the sides of the road. There are plenty of them but I want to try to do my own. Wife says I’m nuts.

I tend to agree with your wife but whatever makes you happy! Remember what Bob's client said about buying green bananas? ROFL
Posted By: Augie Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 08/17/23 05:57 PM
The Dunstan Chestnut is also a hybrid - American Chestnut x Chinese Chestnut.

HIstory of the Dunstan Chestnut
Posted By: Rangersedge Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 09/03/23 05:02 AM
I used the tree tubes that Esshup recommended and could easily tell a difference between those in and out of a tube.

I wish the stakes were a little longer and the tubes had a few more factory holes as they weren't at top of tube once driven down far enough to keep it upright and some tubes buckled over in wind as a result. I will probably order some more tubes from them next year as I plant more.
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 09/03/23 01:02 PM
Scott, we have wild plums everywhere on the road sides. This is more of a personal challenge.
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 09/03/23 03:36 PM
Originally Posted by Rangersedge
I used the tree tubes that Esshup recommended and could easily tell a difference between those in and out of a tube.

I wish the stakes were a little longer and the tubes had a few more factory holes as they weren't at top of tube once driven down far enough to keep it upright and some tubes buckled over in wind as a result. I will probably order some more tubes from them next year as I plant more.

I have used 3/4" Sch 40 PVC pipe for my tree tube supports. They keep the tubes from buckling, but allow the tube to "wiggle" just enough in the wind that the trunks of the saplings thicken up properly at the base. I attach them with heavy duty removable zip ties, since I need to weed and prune the trees in my area a few times before they are mature enough to be liberated from the tubes.

They have supported my trees safely until they are 2-3 feet out of the top of my 5' tubes. However, at that point the trees have enough potential wind area that storm winds will break my zip ties and flatten the trees.

I then move on to Phase 2 of protecting the trees, which also involves some elevated fencing because my deer will stand on their hind legs and eat the tree tops out of the 5' tubes.
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 09/03/23 03:51 PM
Originally Posted by Dave Davidson1
Scott, we have wild plums everywhere on the road sides. This is more of a personal challenge.

I have several acres of drought-resistant sand plums on our property.

Next time I try to send you some rain, should I also try to send you a 1/4-acre of sand plums? grin
Posted By: esshup Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 09/07/23 01:39 AM
The customers place that has the tree tubes used the grey 3/4" or 1" electrical PVC pipe to anchor the tubes. The PVC is the same height as the tubes.
Posted By: Rangersedge Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 09/26/23 04:14 PM
Some of our transplanted chestnut trees are now above the tubes (like in Augie's picture).
We mowed at the island last weekend and some of the chestnut trees there are absolutely loaded. I bet one of the trees alone has hundreds of nuts.
May try my luck just planting some seeds where transplanted ones died.
Only one of the six trees by the house has any. Same small tree as had the most last year. Neither of the two biggest trees has any... Don't quite understand that.
Have several hundred black walnuts, pecans, and some cherry seeds saved back, have a lot of apples to pick, and will have a lot of chestnuts. Not sure what I'll do with any of them. Not sure I'm up for a mass transplanting effort again. Feel like I need to plant them somewhere; but not sure where. If it all works out, may try to clear off some areas that just have brush and plant seeds. A lot of things would have to come together just right for that to work out (time, money, and equipment availability); but...
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 09/26/23 04:37 PM
My farm has pretty tough conditions, but I think it is much easier to start seeds in pots in a controlled environment and then later transplant your best and healthiest seedlings than it is to grow straight from seed to tree in the "wild". (The kids liked watching the results in the basement "grow room" when I did trees and Mom did garden plants.)

However, trees have been growing from a nut in the wild by themselves for hundreds of millions of years!

Maybe in your area, your best use of time and effort would be planting your desired seeds too densely. If a huge number make it to 5 years of age and are well-established, then it is quite easy to cull a few of the weaker trees.

If going with the seed plan, I would try to maximize diversity of the micro-environment of the planting locations to get the most trees through the unknown future weather conditions.

My trees usually have to combat drought, so I planted six chestnuts in one of my small depressions. We had prolific rains the entire next spring and summer and all but one of the trees died because they were too long in fully water saturated ground!

I think if you plant a few seeds in the depressions, a few on the tops of the hillocks, a few on the side slopes, then you will have a much higher likelihood of having a significant number of trees make it to the 5 year mark.

Good luck on your ongoing tree projects!
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 09/26/23 09:09 PM
At this time, I have about 50 plum seeds in the refrigerator. Instructions say to eat the plum and put the seed in wet paper towels. Then into a plastic bag for a couple of months. Some SHOULD put out roots that I can transplant.

We will see. This is just an experiment. Wild plums are on the side of the country roads around my place.

I am butt deep in wild blackberries. It happens when a bird passes a seed that takes roots. They are in 4 places. One is 100 yards long.
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 09/26/23 09:45 PM
There is a certain time of year where the deer must really enjoy eating the honey locust pods that have dropped on the ground at our place. I can see the big black seeds when I come across a deer dropping.

The deer seem to be quite adept at planting AND fertilizing Honey Locust trees on our property! Whereas they attempt to eat my oak trees and fruit trees. I sure wish I could train my deer to be a little better behaved. grin
Posted By: catscratch Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 09/27/23 02:28 AM
I believe I get a much stronger tree when direct seeded in their permanent location. Tap root trees simple do better if their root has been allowed to grow fully instead of in a pot. It takes a little protection to make it happen but I think it's worth it. Of course I do pot starts too as I enjoy growing trees, just don't think it's best.
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 09/27/23 02:59 AM
Originally Posted by catscratch
I believe I get a much stronger tree when direct seeded in their permanent location. Tap root trees simple do better if their root has been allowed to grow fully instead of in a pot. It takes a little protection to make it happen but I think it's worth it. Of course I do pot starts too as I enjoy growing trees, just don't think it's best.

I started out trying to transplant several of the bur oak saplings that the squirrels had so kindly planted in our yard in the city! You are correct - it is nearly impossible to extract the long tap root fully intact.

I then tried our giant bur oak acorns in oversized pots. They did very well even under my cheap grow lights, but tended to have a long tap root that was wrapping around the bottom of the pot. When I used a fluffy potting mix, it WAS possible to extract the saplings with their tap roots intact and gently straighten the tap root into the planting hole.

That was fun and productive, but then I contemplated the growth rate of bur oak trees in Kansas. My great grandchildren will think those trees are awesome.

I have now switched to hybrid oak varieties that grow much faster and hit acorn production maturity much sooner!
Posted By: catscratch Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 09/27/23 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by FishinRod
Originally Posted by catscratch
I believe I get a much stronger tree when direct seeded in their permanent location. Tap root trees simple do better if their root has been allowed to grow fully instead of in a pot. It takes a little protection to make it happen but I think it's worth it. Of course I do pot starts too as I enjoy growing trees, just don't think it's best.

I started out trying to transplant several of the bur oak saplings that the squirrels had so kindly planted in our yard in the city! You are correct - it is nearly impossible to extract the long tap root fully intact.

I then tried our giant bur oak acorns in oversized pots. They did very well even under my cheap grow lights, but tended to have a long tap root that was wrapping around the bottom of the pot. When I used a fluffy potting mix, it WAS possible to extract the saplings with their tap roots intact and gently straighten the tap root into the planting hole.

That was fun and productive, but then I contemplated the growth rate of bur oak trees in Kansas. My great grandchildren will think those trees are awesome.

I have now switched to hybrid oak varieties that grow much faster and hit acorn production maturity much sooner!

Sounds like a great project!
What hybrids are you planting? I've got a Concordia oak or two, some Bur's, DCO's, and quite a few Sawtooths that I've planted. Also lots of pear, apple, and persimmon's. It's addicting like pond habitat is.
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 09/27/23 03:57 PM
"Sounds like a great project!

What hybrids are you planting? I've got a Concordia oak or two, some Bur's, DCO's, and quite a few Sawtooths that I've planted. Also lots of pear, apple, and persimmon's. It's addicting like pond habitat is."


I have planted some Bur X Swamp White Hybrid (Quercus macrocarpa X Quercus bicolor) in some of my lower, wetter ground. Three of those have reached 8' tall in 3 years.

I have also planted some English X White Hybrid (Quercus robur X Quercus alba) that have grown fairly well.

Lastly, I have planted some Bur X Gambel Hybrid (Quercus macrocarpa X Quercus gambelii) that are supposed to be more drought resistant. However, most of those have failed to thrive. I did plant them in some of my worst (sandiest) soil conditions where I wanted to try for some oak trees. That poor soil did result in less available water and more damage from the darn pocket gophers.

The geology changes quite a bit from my property to your property. My property is all sand and siltstone as the parent material for my soils. I suspect you may have some limestone outcrops on your property?

Maybe some of the hybrid oak options will perform really well at your place if you match them to your soil types! You also get more water than I do.


P.S. I did plant two pure Swamp White Oaks (Quercus bicolor) in two depressions that stay damp most of the year. One of them produced tiny acorns in Year 5 or 6? Those depressions did go dry during the drought, but those trees were well-established by then and have survived the drought with no problems with my periodic hand watering.


P.P.S. Certainly agree with you on the tree addiction! We both reside in Kansas where there is generally a tree deficit. Once we live at our property, I am definitely going to add more trees for the long term benefits for both the humans and the wildlife.
Posted By: catscratch Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 09/27/23 05:11 PM
Originally Posted by FishinRod
"Sounds like a great project!

What hybrids are you planting? I've got a Concordia oak or two, some Bur's, DCO's, and quite a few Sawtooths that I've planted. Also lots of pear, apple, and persimmon's. It's addicting like pond habitat is."


I have planted some Bur X Swamp White Hybrid (Quercus macrocarpa X Quercus bicolor) in some of my lower, wetter ground. Three of those have reached 8' tall in 3 years.

I have also planted some English X White Hybrid (Quercus robur X Quercus alba) that have grown fairly well.

Lastly, I have planted some Bur X Gambel Hybrid (Quercus macrocarpa X Quercus gambelii) that are supposed to be more drought resistant. However, most of those have failed to thrive. I did plant them in some of my worst (sandiest) soil conditions where I wanted to try for some oak trees. That poor soil did result in less available water and more damage from the darn pocket gophers.

The geology changes quite a bit from my property to your property. My property is all sand and siltstone as the parent material for my soils. I suspect you may have some limestone outcrops on your property?

Maybe some of the hybrid oak options will perform really well at your place if you match them to your soil types! You also get more water than I do.


P.S. I did plant two pure Swamp White Oaks (Quercus bicolor) in two depressions that stay damp most of the year. One of them produced tiny acorns in Year 5 or 6? Those depressions did go dry during the drought, but those trees were well-established by then and have survived the drought with no problems with my periodic hand watering.


P.P.S. Certainly agree with you on the tree addiction! We both reside in Kansas where there is generally a tree deficit. Once we live at our property, I am definitely going to add more trees for the long term benefits for both the humans and the wildlife.

That's a good mix of oaks!
Yes, stone outcroppings and limestone just under the soil in most spots. No sand, quite a bit of clay.
We're right on a line for rain. Lots of rain east of us, little rain to the west. Sometimes the rain shifts one way or the other for a season or two. ie - one year we get a part of the rains that are headed east and the next year we get almost none of those rains. I've watched a lot of lightening to the east of us this year but the ponds and creeks are pretty dang low!
Posted By: esshup Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 09/28/23 10:34 PM
These tree tubes are great. Use the black plastic and keep weed growth away from the trees for the first few years. Cut the plastic away from inside the tube to let any condensation run down and water the tree. 60" & 72" really help protect the trees from the deer.

https://www.treepro.com/products/miracle-tube-tree-grow-tube?variant=42512560423061

I use the biggest diameter I can get, usually the 4 3/4" size. The optimal free netting for the top keeps birds from nesting inside.
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 09/28/23 11:14 PM
Originally Posted by esshup
These tree tubes are great. Use the black plastic and keep weed growth away from the trees for the first few years. Cut the plastic away from inside the tube to let any condensation run down and water the tree. 60" & 72" really help protect the trees from the deer.

https://www.treepro.com/products/miracle-tube-tree-grow-tube?variant=42512560423061

I use the biggest diameter I can get, usually the 4 3/4" size. The optimal free netting for the top keeps birds from nesting inside.

I have used the same tree tubes as esshup and have also liked the results.

I did NOT put on the netting, but have never found a dead bird after lifting the tube for pruning and weeding. However, I have had several tubes with wasps and wasp nests inside. I then put on the netting, but the wasps just kept using the vent holes.


P.S. I have twice found a black widow spider on my trees inside the tubes. My property in Kansas is NOT within the mapped geographic range of the southern black widow or the northern black widow. The saplings that sheltered a black widow were from different nurseries. I suspect I am actually in the range of the southern black widow. If they are common in your area, maybe keep an eye out while tending to your saplings within a tree tube.
Posted By: catscratch Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 09/29/23 03:06 AM
Originally Posted by FishinRod
Originally Posted by esshup
These tree tubes are great. Use the black plastic and keep weed growth away from the trees for the first few years. Cut the plastic away from inside the tube to let any condensation run down and water the tree. 60" & 72" really help protect the trees from the deer.

https://www.treepro.com/products/miracle-tube-tree-grow-tube?variant=42512560423061

I use the biggest diameter I can get, usually the 4 3/4" size. The optimal free netting for the top keeps birds from nesting inside.

I have used the same tree tubes as esshup and have also liked the results.

I did NOT put on the netting, but have never found a dead bird after lifting the tube for pruning and weeding. However, I have had several tubes with wasps and wasp nests inside. I then put on the netting, but the wasps just kept using the vent holes.


P.S. I have twice found a black widow spider on my trees inside the tubes. My property in Kansas is NOT within the mapped geographic range of the southern black widow or the northern black widow. The saplings that sheltered a black widow were from different nurseries. I suspect I am actually in the range of the southern black widow. If they are common in your area, maybe keep an eye out while tending to your saplings within a tree tube.
I find black widows and scorpions on a regular basis. The youngest got stung on the lip while in bed. Creepy crawlies!
Posted By: Rangersedge Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/11/23 03:22 AM
Update: Last years' effort planting nuts seeds was pretty much a complete bust.

The trees I transplanted from year before seeds have some trees above the tubes. Suspect could have had a very high survival rate if had watered. Have pond nearby but never had the time.

Have harvested several hundred chestnuts, tested to see which would float, soaked in bleach / water 1/ 10 solution for one minute. Sorted out about 230 of the best and planted them in 5 gl buckets with sand today. Also planted about 150 apple seeds, maybe 40 pecans, and maybe 200 black walnuts. Didn't soak the apple, pecan, or walnut.

Now send guessing myself about pecan and walnut. The seeds were from last year and sat in unheated shed since harvest in buckets. Will they not sprout? Will they immediately sprout (and then die before dig up buckets in spring)? Also, realized totally forgot about cherry seeds...

Hope to get a lot of starts going well to transplant next fall. Hope to rent a big trackhoe to do a lot of work clearing some potential planting spots next summer.

May take a drive to northern Indiana to pick up a bunch more of the tree tubes but will try the 3/4" electrical pvc conduit for stakes.
Posted By: jpsdad Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/11/23 01:01 PM
Rangersdedge,

When I was in my twenties I used to graft trees for additional income and to make new friends. One of the things I learned is that pecans and walnuts not spoiled by a weevil always sprouted in spring. All they need is good contact with soil. Just using the heel of your boot to press them into the place you want them to grow is all it take to have a tree growing there. Usually I would plant 3 and then cull the slowest growing by mid summer. Nuts planted in-situ always produced trees with a better earlier start and by age two were 2 to 4 times the size of transplants. Transplanting sets a tree back and it takes time to take off again. IME many transplants are lost where most of the in-situ nut plantings survived. It is helpful to mulch with cardboard in that first year too ... just to reduce competition from grass and conserve moisture.

Back then I had a keen interest in growing chestnuts and tried to nurture transplants but they always died despite frequent watering. The soil probably wasn't best suited for chestnuts but I think they might have benefitted from in-situ planting. Anyways, hope your have good success with your plantings next year.

P.S. It is important to plant nuts in the fall ... you probably know that ... but just in case or for the benefit of others who may not.
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/11/23 03:52 PM
I’ve propagated roses from cuttings a long time ago. Tried it again last year but every one of them died.

Will try again this year. One rose I’m particularly interested in. My grandmother planted it over 50 years ago. It’s at a house I own that my grandson and his wife are living in. Last year, everything was going well until an unbelievable hot spell set in for a couple of months. Also tried starting some climbing roses with the same results.

I’ve never tried any of the planting medium tubes, or special fertilizer concoctions. Do you guys recommend them?
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/11/23 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by Rangersedge
Hope to rent a big trackhoe to do a lot of work clearing some potential planting spots next summer.

Wow Ranger, sounds like you have doing some awesome tree labors on your farm.

The most surprising "tree planting" result on our property, was that my highest survival rates occurred where my saplings were in close competition with other trees!

I cleared some large areas and planted trees, but also had many areas where I planted some trees and said I would do the clearing later. Well "later" never happened due to other projects and problems. However, some of my best growing trees are in the shade of established invasive trees, and are near or within the drip canopy such that the established trees should have stolen the water from my newly planted trees. (Despite my installed drip irrigation systems and truck watering, the amount of water available to my new trees has certainly been a survival factor due to our lower rainfall geographic area.)

I believe:

1.) Prairie grass may steal water more effectively than the roots of trees. (I do use weed fabric and mulch right around the trees.)

2.) Some shade is actually beneficial for new trees that experience very hot and dry summers. (I have heavily shaded trees that have done well.)

3.) My farm is subject to very windy conditions. Wind breaks from surrounding trees help the health of my trees after they start significant branching above the top of the 5' tree tubes.

I don't know if my observations are universal, or just true to the specific conditions on my farm. (If I said something stupid, then perhaps the better "tree people" on the forum can correct.)

However, I typed up this long response to optimize your hard work in tree clearing. It might be easier on your budget AND better for your new tree plantings to just make some smaller clearings in your existing forest to start your new slow-growing trees like oaks and chestnuts ASAP. I would consider felling all of the trees that might fall on your newly planted trees - if you felled them later. Make a burn pile and get rid of the debris next year when it is dry enough - and your newly planted tree are still within their tubes.

I think(?) growing in smaller clearings of the right size might actually help your new trees. You can then use the trackhoe to clear big swaths as needed any time in the future.

(You could even make very small clearings if you are good at using your wedges and dropping trees right where you want them with your chainsaw.)

Hope that gives you a few more planting areas and ideas for this fall! I also like jpsdad's "numbers" method since planting seeds is so much easier than transplanting. If you have lots of healthy acorns and seeds available, just "overplant" the heck out of them. Maybe put a cheap construction flag by them so you can easily find your best saplings in the spring. Then you can do the time and effort to put tubes on your best ones. Come back in five years and thin your weak trees in areas where you have too many survivors.

Good luck on your tree projects! Can't wait to see how beautiful your property is 40 years from now. grin
Posted By: Rangersedge Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/11/23 11:45 PM
Thanks! I have been reviewing a bunch of books on property mgt for whitetails and etc. lately. Figure 5 to 10 years until retirement. Probably 15 to 20 to live. Want to get things in good shape for future. Figure land etc is a resource. Might as well maximize its potential as much as possible for the future whether I'll see the full benefits or not.

Have a bunch more walnuts, apple seeds, cherry seeds, and will have more pecans. I may direct seed a bunch too.
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/12/23 03:48 AM
Heck, if you keep working that hard on your property ... you will be so buff that you will probably live another 50 years! grin
Posted By: Rangersedge Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 11/12/23 04:20 AM
Maybe so. Diggin that hole to bury the four 5 gallon buckets convinced me that people probably didn't bury their dead in a 6 ft hole long 3 feet wide and 6 feet down back in the old days before backhoes and good equipment. I dug that hole using three different steel shovels and a hammer drill with an auger on it and it still took a while digging about a 4 x 4 x 4 hole. Ground is hard around here right now. Have a lot of ideas for property improvements- will just take time, money, and hard work.
Posted By: Rangersedge Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 03/02/24 03:32 AM
Bought about 500 2 gallon plastic pots from a local nursery. Planning to dig up the buckets Sunday. See if I need the pots. Don't quite know what to hope for. Want more trees; but will be a lot of work to pot, care for, and transplant.
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 03/04/24 10:19 PM
I do pecans. Soak them for about a month. Then put them in a flower pot or 5 gallon bucket with the pointy end up. Eliminate all but the best one. Transplant when it is growing well. Best to put it in a low area where water drains to and stands.

I have some soaking now.
Posted By: Pat Williamson Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 03/05/24 07:05 AM
Originally Posted by Dave Davidson1
I do pecans. Soak them for about a month. Then put them in a flower pot or 5 gallon bucket with the pointy end up. Eliminate all but the best one. Transplant when it is growing well. Best to put it in a low area where water drains to and stands.

I have some soaking now.
Dave do you get the same type of pecan or do they revert back to native?
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 03/05/24 11:40 AM
Back to native But I have a couple of natives that put out larger nuts than most.
Posted By: Pat Williamson Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 03/07/24 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by Dave Davidson1
Back to native But I have a couple of natives that put out larger nuts than most.

We planted chestnut trees and can’t water them enough to keep them alive during this ongoing drought. Also lost pecan trees from snowpockalipse a few years back
Posted By: Augie Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 03/07/24 10:34 PM
I ordered another 10-pack of Dunstan Chestnut trees this week. They should ship sometime the 2nd week of April.

I need to replace a few that I killed by over watering, and add a few new ones to fill out my grove.

After that I figured out why some of the trees were suffering I bought a couple dozen 20 gallon tree watering bags.
Those worked well for me last year. Filled them twice a week during the heat of summer, which was enough to keep
the surrounding soil nicely moist.

I need to get out there in the next few days, pull the grow tubes off, remove the dead leaves from last season, then
reset the tubes and install the watering bags. We should be swimming in mud right now but it seems the drought
here isn't quite over. If it doesn't start raining soon I'll be ready.
Posted By: esshup Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 03/08/24 02:11 AM
Originally Posted by Augie
We should be swimming in mud right now but it seems the drought
here isn't quite over. If it doesn't start raining soon I'll be ready.

Just North of Oklahoma City is getting pounded right now.
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 03/08/24 04:07 AM
Originally Posted by Augie
I ordered another 10-pack of Dunstan Chestnut trees this week. They should ship sometime the 2nd week of April.

I need to replace a few that I killed by over watering, and add a few new ones to fill out my grove.

I think chestnuts are very susceptible to having water-logged roots.

I planted a row of chestnuts in a depression at our farm, because we get even less rain than you guys do in Misery.

Unfortunately, the next spring was very wet and our ground was soggy for five months. Only one chestnut survived, and it was at the end of the row on slightly higher ground.

I had even run the roto-tiller behind the tractor and made wide bowls before planting to really make the chestnuts drought resistant. I was kind of proud of my work on that project ... and my hubris clearly resulted in excess rains! mad
Posted By: Pat Williamson Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 03/09/24 07:59 PM
Originally Posted by Augie
I ordered another 10-pack of Dunstan Chestnut trees this week. They should ship sometime the 2nd week of April.

I need to replace a few that I killed by over watering, and add a few new ones to fill out my grove.

After that I figured out why some of the trees were suffering I bought a couple dozen 20 gallon tree watering bags.
Those worked well for me last year. Filled them twice a week during the heat of summer, which was enough to keep
the surrounding soil nicely moist.

I need to get out there in the next few days, pull the grow tubes off, remove the dead leaves from last season, then
reset the tubes and install the watering bags. We should be swimming in mud right now but it seems the drought
here isn't quite over. If it doesn't start raining soon I'll be ready.

Do you order bare rooted trees or in pots like Wally World sells for $34 each
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 03/10/24 10:52 AM
I found 2 of the soaking pecans that have split and are starting to put out what resembles a root. Going to put them in pots to see if they make it.

Generally, about 10% of the nuts are fertile/root and, of those, about 25% turn into a tree. Of those, a couple don’t die from my neglect.

I’ll plant them, assuming they live, below my leaky dam where the soil stays moist. I have found that most “wild” pecan trees occur in low areas where water collects.
Posted By: Augie Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 03/10/24 07:34 PM
The chestnut trees I've been buying are bare-root.
Wallymarts carries the potted trees from the same nursery that I buy from, but not within 150 miles of where I live.
Posted By: Rangersedge Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 03/17/24 02:04 AM
Dug up the four buckets of seeds. Ugh! That was work! Even more when you start in the wrong spot! ;-)

I have planted about 140 sprouted chestnut seeds into 2 gl pots, about 15 or so apples, and maybe a dozen walnuts. None of the pecans have sprouted so far. Not many of the walnuts have.

I've noticed that chestnuts with the sand clumped around them don't sprout. It seems like the ones that do sprout are the ones the sand doesn't stick to. Don't know how many of the ones in the tubes made it through the winter. The soil is very hard Clay- which chestnuts apparently don't like; but...
Posted By: Rangersedge Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 03/17/24 02:48 AM
https://tacf.org/growing-chestnuts/#seed-in-pots
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife - 03/17/24 02:50 PM
Originally Posted by Rangersedge
Dug up the four buckets of seeds. Ugh! That was work! Even more when you start in the wrong spot! ;-)

Oh no, the Curse of Oak Island has reached YOUR property. grin

Good luck on your tree projects this year. My tube trees always seem to leaf out later than the existing trees on our farm. Of course, they are different species.

Our native sand plums already have tiny blossoms that are about to open. The pear trees that are in tubes and sticking out of the tops, do not yet even have buds swelling at all.

My oaks in tubes will leaf out very late.
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