Pond Boss
Posted By: rtripple Pier construction - 12/24/20 02:57 AM
My father is bringing me spare auger style pier posts to build a dock on my 8 acre pond. I plan on using a pipe wrench and screwing the post down into the pond. I’m only going to go as deep as I need for stability. Is there any fear of creating a leak in my pond by doing this. I couldn’t imagine it would hurt especially because I don’t plan on taking post out. I just figured I should post this before I go and cause problems. Thanks.
Posted By: esshup Re: Pier construction - 12/24/20 02:43 PM
I doubt there will be any problems but do you know how the pond was constructed?
Posted By: rtripple Re: Pier construction - 12/24/20 07:34 PM
I’m not sure how the pond was built for certain. Judging by the lay of the land my best guess is they damned up bottom land. The pond is down in bottoms and the rest of the property is uphill. But I can’t say for certain. I didn’t think it would be a problem but if auger style posts were a big no no then I would use them. I’m getting spare ones for free otherwise I’d build a floating dock.
Posted By: jpsdad Re: Pier construction - 12/24/20 07:58 PM
Originally Posted by rtripple
.... I’m getting spare ones for free otherwise I’d build a floating dock.

I don't think the posts will cause a leakage problem but I vote for building the floating dock. I think you will find its advantages worth more to you than the savings on posts.
Posted By: teehjaeh57 Re: Pier construction - 12/25/20 12:01 AM
Any time one disturbs the clay liner there is a risk of creating a leak. Mike Otto runs into this often during rehab projects - if too much material is excavated from a silted in pond there exists a risk of exposing suspect material which exists below the liner. I agree it's safer to opt for a floating dock, and they are easier to install.

Corey ran into this issue when he installed his dock and had to apply polymer in that area to treat the leaking areas around his pilings. I wouldn't personally risk it.
Posted By: esshup Re: Pier construction - 12/25/20 12:35 AM
But on the flip side of the coin, if the pond was constructed without a clay liner then there shouldn't be any problems. Depending on the side wind loads on a floating pier, a floating dock may take more work to install.

If the water level in the pond didn't fluctuate more than 18" I'd go with an anchored, fixed pier.
Posted By: TGW1 Re: Pier construction - 12/25/20 02:26 PM
I built a floating pier and it wound up being used for several things I needed or wanted to do after the pond was built. I built a stationary place on the shoreline to tie into as an anchor along with several 50lb anchor's in the water and a walkway to the pier. I have used the pier for many things other than a place to fish from or boat from. If you build one just make sure you have the floatation necessary to handle the load of people that will gather there. I don't think you can have too many floats but I have seen piers where there were not enough floats.
Posted By: teehjaeh57 Re: Pier construction - 12/25/20 10:08 PM
Originally Posted by esshup
But on the flip side of the coin, if the pond was constructed without a clay liner then there shouldn't be any problems. Depending on the side wind loads on a floating pier, a floating dock may take more work to install.

If the water level in the pond didn't fluctuate more than 18" I'd go with an anchored, fixed pier.
Originally Posted by esshup
But on the flip side of the coin, if the pond was constructed without a clay liner then there shouldn't be any problems. Depending on the side wind loads on a floating pier, a floating dock may take more work to install.

If the water level in the pond didn't fluctuate more than 18" I'd go with an anchored, fixed pier.
Originally Posted by esshup
But on the flip side of the coin, if the pond was constructed without a clay liner then there shouldn't be any problems. Depending on the side wind loads on a floating pier, a floating dock may take more work to install.

If the water level in the pond didn't fluctuate more than 18" I'd go with an anchored, fixed pier.

Agree - Yes if no liner then leak issue isn’t as prominent.
Posted By: rtripple Re: Pier construction - 12/25/20 11:42 PM
Is there a way to know if the pond had a clay liner or not without tracking down the original builder? Would a pier post go deep enough to crack it? I can’t imagine having to drill it(for lack of better word) more than 12 inches into bottom. My issue with floating docks is stability. I like being anchored when on a dock without movement. Obviously I’d rather have a dock that moves around a little vs messing up my pond.

While I’m typing this. There are several old standing timber in the pond. Would that mean no clay liner and they just flooded bottom land with a levee?
Posted By: esshup Re: Pier construction - 12/25/20 11:52 PM
Originally Posted by rtripple
Is there a way to know if the pond had a clay liner or not without tracking down the original builder? Would a pier post go deep enough to crack it? I can’t imagine having to drill it(for lack of better word) more than 12 inches into bottom. My issue with floating docks is stability. I like being anchored when on a dock without movement. Obviously I’d rather have a dock that moves around a little vs messing up my pond.

While I’m typing this. There are several old standing timber in the pond. Would that mean no clay liner and they just flooded bottom land with a levee?

You probably will have to go a lot further than 12" into the bottom to have stability. Think of building the same pier on dry land, with the pier as far up in the air as it would be up off the pond bottom in the pond. Would a piece of pipe augered 12" into the ground be stable if everything was on dry land? If unsure, you can easily do a test on dry ground with one auger and try to move it by grabbing the pipe as far off the ground as the pier would be up off the bottom of the pond.

IIRC the rule of thumb is 1/4 the length of the pipe in the ground....

With you saying that there is standing timber in the pond, then I would assume that the pond was just flooded and not to have a clay liner.
Posted By: teehjaeh57 Re: Pier construction - 12/26/20 03:45 AM
Agree with Scott on timber analogy.
Posted By: anthropic Re: Pier construction - 12/26/20 09:04 AM
Originally Posted by rtripple
I’m not sure how the pond was built for certain. Judging by the lay of the land my best guess is they damned up bottom land. The pond is down in bottoms and the rest of the property is uphill. But I can’t say for certain. I didn’t think it would be a problem but if auger style posts were a big no no then I would use them. I’m getting spare ones for free otherwise I’d build a floating dock.

I went for a floating dock and haven't regretted it. At first it seemed a little unsteady, but I quickly got used to that. Don't have to worry about water fluctuations, and I've seen fixed docks that were almost useless due to prolonged droughts. In one extreme case I had to climb down a good seven feet to get to the boat!

In the end, you should go with what makes you happy. No sense giving in to pier pressure.
Posted By: gehajake Re: Pier construction - 12/26/20 02:27 PM
Not a professional but have done dozens of ponds over the years, here in central MO our clay quality is usually pretty good for a good ways into the ground, where we mostly have a problem with leakage or breaking through the sealing layer is in the center or deepest part of the pond, when a owner wants to go too deep is usually where you can run into a gravel or sand layer which can be detrimental to a pond, just did one last summer where we hit some gravelly soils, we came back and sealed it off really good with a good clay, and it seems to be holding just great.
My point being, around the edge of your pond I would not be worried at all about drilling a hole for a pier, now if you were wanting to drill on down deeper at the deepest part of your pond I would advise against it. but along the edge of the pond your chances of digging down far enough to reach a porous layer are slim. jmo
Like Anthropic says, do it your way, dont let pier pressure make your decisions for you.
Posted By: liquidsquid Re: Pier construction - 12/29/20 04:09 PM
Another option besides putting in deep holes is to pour concrete into much shallower but wider holes, which can be done underwater (there are posts floating around here how to do that). Not sure how that will work in a filled pond though.

At this point after a few years, I would prefer a floating dock with a solid platform on-shore, and a pier that is allowed to pivot out to the floating section. It would resolve two issues:
1. Water level changes over 2+ ft causing fixed dock to look ridiculous way up in the air.
2. Being able to drag the dock-on shore for servicing/painting, etc.
Posted By: liquidsquid Re: Pier construction - 02/27/21 07:54 PM
If you get ice in your pond, you again may desire a floating dock that can be removed in the winter. Mine is currently being ripped up off the bottom and bent because the ice formed when the pond was low, and now a thaw is causing the ice to raise with the water influx. The ice is near 18 inches thick this year, and it has trapped the braces that are normally far under the ice. No way to free it up in time to create a big project for me this year.
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