So my mig welder is on its way here, and I have my first 2 of many questions. I'm the world's worst about getting all the 101 stuff handled before I get moving too fast, so tighten your seat belts, it's gonna be a bumpy ride.

On my 14" metal chop saw, fiber or steel blades? I'm currently using fiber.

Gas thoughts? I keep seeing 75/25 as the preferred mix.

Thanks guys.

25% argon will give you less spatter than 100% co2. It costs a little more. Nice especially on thin metal or tubing. Less cleanup on peices you want to look really nice.

Generally metal blades are for saws specifically made for metal blades. They turn slower than most abrasive saws. But others may have some other experience in that area. Generally for the hobby or small shop user the abrasive blades are more than adequate. Eye protection on any a must.

If you want a metal blade in addition to an abrasive chop saw, I would recomend one of the hand metal saws. They look like a Skillsaw wood saw but turn slower and have a metal shield and blade made for metal. They used to be horribly expensive but some decent saws are now available for the budget of more occasional users. They are handy on projects where the metal can't come to the chop saw.

Tips I can give...

A good pair of gloves as well as make sure you have pants that you can run the cuff over your boot. Noting like a hot metal glob dropping into your boot.

I run the 25% gas as well and love it even if I am just a fixer hobby guys as well.

You will have to play with the heat range and feed speed depending on the gauge of wire you run. Trial and error but once you have your unit set with the wire your using its a breeze.

I like to work my weld like a U shape heating the new metal on each side as your filling the weld up.

Cheers Don.

Al another thing I keep in my work truck, seldom use, but is good to have for occasional use or emergency is a metal blade for your 18 or 20 volt 5" battery powered circular saw. I use Ryobi brand that uses the 10mm center hole but others are made for other saws.

It is pretty hard on the saw and you sure want to be wearing protective clothing, but if you have a peice of angle or tube out on the dock or somewhere away from electricity and dont want to drag a torch out with some care and reason the little saw will get the job done. Not somthing to use for production work or building a project, but in a pinch is invaluable. Just be doubly aware that metal frags will go everywhere, so wear appropriate protection. The saw might see a shortened life if used that way constantly.

One of these blades stays in a compartment of my work truck, rarely gets used, but there if I need it.

The blade looks like an ordinary carbide wood blade but the set of the teeth is less, the carbide cutters are at almost 90 degrees (so does not suck into the metal like wood) and there is metal acting like a depth giude (like the depth/drag links on a chain saw chain) so the metal will not grab.

With carbide metal blades on metal, slow and steady is the key. Ram it in like you might wood and you will knock carbide cutters off. A careless operator can ruin an expensive metal blade in a heart beat. Yet used properly, can outlast many abrasive blades. On metal blades best to treat them like I treat my motorcycle and my wife. I don't loan them out because they may come back damaged.

Yeah, I'd say after welding once in your flip flops you will be dancing around and wearing leather shoes/boots. Even the mesh tennis shoes let nasties end up laying between your toes which result in some pretty funny dance moves.

If your saw is spinning fast enough to use an abrasive blade, DON'T use a "metal" blade for steel. You CAN use a carbide tipped blade to cut aluminum spinning that fast.

When using carbide tipped blades to cut metal, make sure you have good coolant flow to keep the blade tips cool.

I forgot to ask. Are you welding strictly steel, or will you be welding aluminum too?

Aluminum with a MIG is a trick even for an experienced welder. TIG is usually the answer for aluminum.
Now SS works well with MIG. 100% argon gass as I recall and change out the gun liner.

One of the difficulties with aluminum and MIG is shooting out the wire fron the gun. Then the aluminum looks like it is welding along perfectly when a 3" hole drops out. Having different gun feed liners is a must.

If you do not have leather shoe strings in your work boots, might want to have a package on hand. Spatters have a way of melting right through most modern work boot strings. It might not happen today, or tomorrow, but eventually........

I keep a pair of wolverine slip on leather work boots out in my shop just for welding. No laces to tie, I'm just lazy like that.

Thanks so much guys. Keep your brains fired up.

Scott, I'll try aluminum at some point, but I'm not ready for that yet. The Miller I got has a tig option, but I didn't order that gun. Yet.

That is a good idea I had not thought of.

My problem would be I would remember to change shoes right after one lace melted and let my boot loose.

I laugh at this thread because I am so uneducated when it comes to wielding. But I do own a wielder I might need to look into the TIG wielder that esshup mentioned. What kind of money would one be looking at to get set up for alum wielding? Another question comes to mind, where does one look for sheet metal or aluminum sheets and such? I have been to the scrap metal dump yard here and bought scrap that worked as a heavy duty 30' bridge for a bayou crossing, but scrap metal sheets or such things I can cut down I have not found there. So what types of places do you guys purchase such things? Thanks again Al for starting up this thread. Still looking on how to built some platforms for diffusers.

So I picked up some 2" square tubing this last week, and it's oily.

Anything better than acetone to remove the oil? I'll be outside on the trailer, so ventilation and potential sparks should be a nonissue.

I usually do not worry about any minor oil residue for the welding part. I just take paint thinner (whatever happens to be on hand) and wipe it down with a rag before painting. Keep in mind I am not painting show cars. Someone way more particular may have better advice for projects that require perfection. Also keep in mind as soon as it is cleaned it will get surface rust pretty quick. Not a big issue, but if you clean it and leave it laying around for a few weeks getting back to your project you may want to run some fine sandpaper over it before painting.

As far as metal sources there llikely is a metal supply house somewhere in the area that suppllies welding shops and construction. Check with your nearest welding shop. We go through our local welder as he gets a discount because of the volume he buys. If we need a significant amount the supply house will drop ship directly at our shop via their route truck. For smaller amounts we order it and pick up at the welders place as he gets at minimum weekly shipments. For very small amounts we just buy from the welding shop inventory he keeps on hand.

We are fortunate in that we have an excellent welding shop within a few miles that does quite a bit of work for us and he treats us pretty well.

Also most metal shops have a scrap bin. I have bought a lot of scrap just to have around. You will always be needing 2, 3, or 4" of something. Even at 0.10/lb a 55 gallon drum isn't cheap, but well worth it till you get your own scrap pile. Try to get the one by the big chop saw.

Thanks very much guys. I've got a great metal place (Hootens Steel), but they were sold out of the lighter gauge painted metal square tubing.

I'll probably just Ospho the tubing once it's done, and then spray over that. Painting is something I due under duress anyway.

Since I bought my metal band saw, I can't even find my chop saw.

I use lacquer thinner of the cheapest variety on metal prior to painting. Like Doctor Snrub, I find that paint prep isn't that critical on projects. Wipe off with the lacquer thinner and spray er on.

Your hands will lose respect for you working barehanded with lacquer thinner; they will get over it.

Correction: Since Gail bought me my metal band saw.

For critically clean oil free parts (or the anal retentive), brake parts cleaner can't be beat. For most of the everyday, slap it together and paint it jobs... +1 on the lacquer thinner.

Thanks guys.

Dwight, I found this thing called Craigslist, and have been looking at band saws this very week. Their appeal is growing to me. I see a lot of Milwaukee's for sale.

Al, I have a gallon of "wax & grease remover" on hand that you can get from any auto body supply store. Not too pricey and comes in very handy for all types of cleaning, whether it be tools, parts, prepping for paint, removing tar from vehicles, etc. It's a little more friendly on the hands, won't harm painted surfaces (including vehicles) and a gallon will last forever.

Thanks Keith!

Al you're a metalworker now, forget about anything reputed to be skin friendly! From here on in it's sacrificing skin to the metal gods..

Tony, I'm still mad at Scott for saying I can't wear my flip flops. The nerve of some people.

We used 75/25 gas when I was working. Produces some very nice welds.
If your welding outdoors your going to have some trouble with the gas blowing away.
If so might pick up some fluxcore wire that doesn't require gas.

That is a good point. MIG sucks outdoors with wind blowing.

A shield for the wind helps and increasing gas flow helps to a degree but raises consumables cost.

Al that shielding gas purpose is to shield away air so a stable arc is maintained. So anything that blows that gas away from the arc is bad. Including a fan blowing on you on a hot day.

I've done the funny dance with tennis shoes as Scott mentioned, no fun having a big blister between the toes!

For me, knowing my welding would be on the DIY side opposed to particular projects, I've always used flux core. Argon is certainly preferred but for me I've done as much welding outdoors as in so it's worked best for me. Not the prettiest welds but effective none the less, and up to 1/4" with my Lincoln Electric MIG.

Also handy to have and easy to make is a welding cart like this one. Mine is similar to this one although it didn't turn out as square :



On to another note: No (combustible) lighters or books of matches in the pockets! Especially shirt pockets and could be equally dangerous in pants pockets. Consider the consequences of each. Get a Zippo if you're used to carrying a lighter in your pocket.

I'm a welding instructor and all that has been said is good advice. Aluminum isn't that bad if you have the right alloy wire. 100% argon for aluminum. 75/25 for mild steel. There is one called trigas that has helium added. Helium is for welding stainless. Its not nearly as nice as 75/25 on mild steel though. Spool guns are the best for aluminum if all you have is a MIG. You have to have a high freq tig to weld aluminum. If you will be cutting alot of thick metal I would invest in a chop saw blade with carbide teeth...they will last alot longer. If you will be cutting every once in a while and nothing thicker than 1/4" I would just use abrasive discs. Reason is lots of thick cutting you'll pay for a carbide tip blade pretty quick...but ever so often and stuff under 1/4" you'll have to do alot of cutting to go through a bunch of the abrasive discs. If you have any questions about using the machine just pm me and see if I can help out. Quick startup tip on your mig. Take your heat and multiply by 10 and start there. Normally you will turn your wire speed up a bit from there but to start out that will keep you from building up to much filler. Also migs like clean metal...a little oil residue and such won't hurt anything alot...BUT...the cleaner the metal the easier it is for the welder to mig. Even taking a flap wheel and cleaning the mill scale...(gray color) off the metal and making it shiny will make it easier on you. Anyhow, holler at me if you have any questions. Have fun!!

Guys, I just can't say thank you enough. As I said, I'm fine with a stick, but my wife told me some things just need to be square.

I've been cleaning and cutting tubing today, and snrub please re-remind me to wait for painted steel next time. Keith, thanks but I'll blow myself up at some point. It's inevitable.

peachgrower, thanks for the tips. I bought the Miller 215, because it's very portable, and can do mig, tig, and stick. I doubt I'll ever need the 120, but that is an option too. There are always small stick welds that are remote, so this rig and my generator will at least keep me from having to borrow my neighbor's Bobcat.

We have quite a few of the multi process style machines at the school. I don't think you can go wrong with a miller. They make great machines. Although I will say that miller and hobart come down the same line and get different metal and faces at the end. I know many have their own opinions on brands... I like miller for mig and lincoln for stick...although I use a miller trailblazer at my other job (diesel mech) to stick...and we have a miller 252 for mig and a 30amp spool gun for aluminum. I think you'll love the machine, its nice to have one that can do it all.

CAUTION: be careful what you use to clean metal. Some solvents will turn into deadly gasses when vaporized. And I do mean DEADLY. Please research what you use before using "any old solvent or cleaner". For a reference, search on the use of Brake Fluid as a solvent for cleaning welds. People have died from this and there is NO CURE. Another resource for you would be WeldingWeb.com. I am a hobby welder but found lots of great advice from professionals on the WeldingWeb forum (including the warning about what solvents to use).

The gasses you use depends on the metal you are welding. For general welding of ferrous metal, the 75/25 mix is great. Not so for Aluminum or Stainless. For Aluminum, you would likely want to invest in a Spool Gun but not all welders support them.

A good grinder with a wire wheel is a great tool to have for MIG. Your welds will improve dramatically the cleaner you can get your welding surface. Stick welding is a bit more forgiving when it comes to rusted/painted surfaces. A 6011 rod will almost weld water to rusty steel.......OK I am exaggerating just a little bit.

I would also have to agree with sticking with the composite blades in the chop saw. Just be aware that they could break up so keep the shields on the saw and your eyes. I like the full face shield when grinding or cutting.

Be safe and have fun.

FireisHot, I am jealous of your welder. Nice.

So one more question. Do you guys put your ponytails up in a bun when you weld?

Not that I set my hair on fire this morning, I just want to know for those that are uncomfortable asking, or are not sure what that foul odor lingering around their noggin is.

No,

Oh wait, I don't have one, never mind.


I did burn the hair on my arm once cooking burgers and steaks on a grill, does that count?

I have caught a few shirts on fire. Not knowing until it gets really hot or you catch a strange smell.

That reminds me of an important safety tip.

Don't wear bluejeans with frayed leg bottoms or otherwise frayed holes in them while welding.

Don't ask me how I know.

And don't lean a tractor muffler pipe end up against your chest while acetelene welding on the body part of it while wearing cotton coveralls.

Come to think of it, I learned more in high school than I thought.

Yeah, I may to rethink the sandals.

Finishing up my mig 101 project, and it turned out well. I'm losing 4 carts, and picking up one shelf unit that will hold all my power tools, chop saws, and misc. fasteners. It's square, so my wife will like it.

You guys feel free to post anything you may have, the thread belongs to everybody. I'm learning, and seeing other projects helps.

I love how leather gloves will insulate your hands, right up until they suddenly won't....and then you can't get em' off fast enough.

Shave and use the "no bill" cap, long britches, and shirt. You haven't really enjoyed cutting/welding until a BB hits you.

Gee, thanks Al! You with a man bun just cost me my appetite!

Rex, I'm glad to hear it. If you thought it looked good, I might worry. Flattered, but I'd worry none the less.

there ain't nothing like the smell of cotton burning. Have had many worn pant cuffs catch on fire over the years.

If possible don't weld sitting down. You haven't lived until you have weld slag go through your jeans......roll around big John and settle next to the twins......while 14' in the air beating on yourself like a maniac......er, but I wouldn't know about such things.

Now that is funny Tbar

This is my stick welding rig.

Now that's cool! I would have never thought to do that.

T been there and for sure done that..... that will definitely get your attention pronto

A BB on your bald spot can be unforgettable. Wear a cap.

I'm looking at installing new shop lights, because I need something brighter than florescents. LEDs, or is there a better option?

You can also get a sunburn on the inside of your legs. Surprising how much UV can get through faded jeans.

I cut off my 3 year long ponytail so my welding helmet would fit again. Priorities.

Pic ?

Let me rephrase that. You CAN wear them, but you shouldn't. Not unless you can dance really, really well........

LED's are the way to go.

If you want, I have a light meter I can send down so you can measure LUX and see comparisons......

Isn't LUX a hotel in Las Vegas?

Scott, the electric CoOp replaced our floodlights with LED's last year, and the difference is incredible. I just didn't know if there anything cheaper to run, and brighter. Thanks.

More expensive at first to purchase, MUCH cheaper to run (maybe 80%?), and the "bulb" life is many, many times greater. They are tailoring the diodes to produce different wavelengths of white light now too. Just like regular bulbs. i.e. cool white, daylight, etc.

Everything we have switched over to LED so far no dissapointments.

We have metal halide in our shop, and my understanding is they now have LED replacement bulb assemblies that will fit right into our sockets. As we replace the Halides, my intention is to go to LED.

I believe they are making replacement LED fluorescent bulbs too. Remove ballast, re-wire ends and use the LED bulbs. No need to replace the fixture.

I had a set of parking lot lights, mounted on a bullhorn with 2 high pressure sodium (HPS) lights with color corrected bulbs to bring to a cool white color. This color was ideal for winter time lighting of the pond for ice skating rather than the sick yellow color of HPS. I had one fixture (or bulb?) go bad and it costs a bit to rent a lift to go up there and check it out.

I decided to not risk replacing a bulb and find out ballast was bad etc, so I prepared to retrofit to LED fixtures. The LED fixtures are cheaper all the time, have better waterproofing in the housing and glass than my current old HPS ones and the obvious savings with running cost. The HPS have a big current draw at startup and I have a long electrical run from my house to the pond. You can't cycle them on/off quickly.

The LEDs are much nicer for snapping on and turning off to take a quick peak what is happening down there with ice conditions, snow, etc.

I upgraded from 400w HPS to 500W LED and am very happy with the result. The spread of light from LED is 180 degrees wide so you lose the directional nature of the HPS. I would say the LEDs can't 'throw the light' as far or it seems that you lose ability to saturate with light intensity as you get out at distance, but for the cost it was worth it.

I had to modify a bracket to slip over the bullhorn and to fasten to the LED light housing but I highly recommend looking into it. The fixtures come in a variety of Watts and I went with the blue/white light (cold) but you can get a warm yellow flood light if you prefer.

The older fixtures have 2-4 very large single emitting LEDs, either 50W x 2 or 50x4 or even 100W single emitting LED panel x2 or 100w x4.

New fixtures have SMD or multiple small led emitters all lined up in a panel. I tried both kinds and the SMD are definitely the way to go.

Ebay has a few US sellers (I bought from NJ seller) making it easier to correspond and do returns if needed, they are all chinese made though.

If figure with better weather seal and life expectancy at about 50,000 hours I hope to never have to rent that lift and try to position it in the woods and safely go up and down in the dark to install and position those lights again.

At their current price point, you get a whole new fixture for the price of a replacement bulb for those factory metal halide or HPS fixtures. If you had a girder structure for easy mounting you could easily just swap out to new fixtures rather than retrofit existing fixtures with LED bulbs. My lights came in 110V but I believe their transformers handle 110-220V

They make motion activated fixtures too and pricing is getting ridiculously cheap. I see if you buy 10 each of the 100W motion activated fixtures they are $17.99 each!

One option for LED fixtures

Thanks for all the info guys!! I'll go with LED.

My wonderful wife of 31 years bought me a new welding helmet for Valentine's Day. I'm sure she'll be very proud of herself when she finds out she did it.

Bless her heart!

Did she buy the one with flames or Lightning Bolts?

Tracy, I did shake the box last night, and it sounded like it was matte black. I think she went with an Optrel 2.5, but of course I have no way of knowing.

I am the technical director for an LED company in Ontario. Anyone need any advice on LED lighting feel free to drop me a PM.

Direct fluorescent bulb replacement to LED is still not worth it. The reason behind that is that the tube is measured by the following. T12 bulb is "T" stands for tube, and 12 stands for 12, 8ths of an inch in diameter. 12/8th is 1.5" in diameter. LEDs need to be placed on a flat surface PCB board. The only area allowed in the tube replacement is the length and diameter of the bulb. This area will not give enough space to mount enough LED's even in the high power 5050 LED to give the light fluorescent can. If you try to over clock the LED you can get enough room for aluminum heat transfer blocks to keep the LED alive for any sort of time.

We have found still to this day with the highest power 135Lm per watt we can't make the same light in the same space.

The very new and most impressive LED right now is the filament LED. Most amount of light produced from a 360 degree bulb yet and with the new tech created from the butt of a firefly the light output will be in the range of 200Lm per watt. Now 200Lm-300Lm per watt there will not be any other light in the world than LED. It will be the most efficient with heat and light output.

We have a 60watt light that is a replacement for the 400MH high-bay lights and I personally have been using them in my shop for 5 years with no problems.

Cheers Don.

EDIT: best colour temp for the human eye is 5700K, called Natural White. Any more than that you can damage the rods in your eye when looking at the light. Any less the colour perceived is incorrect.

That is good imformation Dono. Thanks!

Don, thank you very much. I never ceased to be amazed at the knowledge that's on this forum.

Dono, you would have a lot of experience in this area then. Is there something to my observation that my new LED fixtures that have SMD strips of LEDs seem to be very bright up close, but the intensity (lumens?) as a function of distance seems to drop off more than my old standard HPS fixtures and bulbs? I thought maybe it had to do with the reflector angles in the old HPS fixtures throwing/reflecting light better but I think the LED just doesn't project somehow?

The big panel of individual single LEDs has pretty high quality LEDs (probably not the best they make given the price point). I bet they would work fine in overhead bays pointing at the ground that is 15-20 feet away though.

Hey guys, I'm looking for some advice on drill bits. I'm not sure a set of drill bits are forever type items, but what would I look for in a good set of metal bits? 1/4" and 1/2" bits are what I need.

Thanks as always, Al

Al, I prefer American made, 135 degree split point bits. They grab a little when breaking through, but I think they perform better on hard material.

+1 on what sprkplug said although I don't use split point...no reason really, just never have. May need to try them! They are not lifetime items but can last a long time is used correctly. Keeping the cutting edge cool is key. If you are cutting metal use some kind of lubricant...sure it may cut without it, but the lube is there for cooling the bit. Also dont go crazy with speed...this also heats up the bit...take your time and let the bit do the cutting. If you look at the edge of the bit and its turned blue, you got it too hot and it may or may not cut the next time you use it. Also graduate...start small and work up. Also a good sharp punch will help keep the bit from walking. You probably know this already but what I say is from doing it wrong at some point in the past..lol. If you spend the money on a good set of American made bits...the ones from overseas will work...but the quality control isn't always the best, sometimes they are great, sometimes not so much. One other thing is I absolutely LOVE the shops drill doctor. Once it is setup correctly a sharpened bit will peel metal making pretty little spirals. When you have a 8-10" or longer spiral of mild steel coming from a drill bit you just sharpened its a thing of beauty! lol The drill doctor is pricey but if you are going to do a lot of drilling into metal and spent the money on a good set of bits, its well worth it...nothing worse than being in the middle of project and the drill bit you need is dull.

With a little practice you can learn to quickly resharpen a dull bit using an angle grinder, or better yet, a bench grinder. (Youtube - sharpening drill bits)

I like to repeatedly dip the drill bit in a cup of water during the sharpening process in order to cool it and preserve it's hardness. And using cutting oil, or even water during the drilling process helps to prolong the life of a sharp bit.

LOL!.... Just saw your post after I submitted mine.

+1 on your comments. Especially the suggestion to drill slow and steady.

Guys, thanks for the advice, it's time to shop. I've got every conceivable wood bit known to man, but I've never really had a good set of metal bits.

Gully makes a very good point...you are not only keeping the edge by keeping it cool, you are keeping the hardness where it was tempered to begin with. If you heat the edge to much it will change the hardness of the bit, sometimes to the point to where it will not even hold an edge.
Learning to sharpen a drill bit by hand is an art. Its something people do not do anymore and its really a shame. I teach my kids in welding class to do it, then let them try to drill with it. I won't let them be done until they can drill through a piece of 3/8" mild steel...oh the attitudes you get...lol, but when they get through...wow, they are so proud. Then I show them the drill doctor...lol. Most people do not realize there are so many parts to a drill bit...look it up in google images sometime, they are pretty complex for what they are.

Just make sure they are rated for metal. I know there are many more bits to choose from, and more expensive ones, but I have had really good luck with Dewalt bits...they are readily available, and won't break the bank.

I have a drill doctor, but I can freehand them quicker by using my belt grinder.

I bought a drill doctor a couple of years ago, sharpened all my bits, but the ones I sharpened don't seem to cut well. Maybe I did it wrong.

Why am I not surprised?

It's funny how aware I've become of temps since I started paying more attention to all things metal related. I've been using cutting oil with drill bits and the chop saw, but now I'm also more careful of heat when sharpening my ZT blades.

Thanks again guys!

John, I set my drill dr to 118 degrees on the bevel...where you actually do the grinding, then I set the chuck, the part with the notches one notch down from 118. You will see 118 in the center of it, then + and - signs, try one notch down or subtracted from 118, probably closer to 116.

I had the same trouble but I played with it for a long time. Finally come up with this setting and works very well on mild steel. If your bits come out with a different angle it might take more grinding before its right. Look at the grind and make sure the bit is shiny all the way across the flank as in the pic. If not the bit used is of a different angle. Normally the point angle is what is different.

When hand sharpening, my students have the most trouble getting the chisel and the lip angle right. The bit will just sit on top of the metal if those are not right.

There are many different pics of drill bit nomenclature, some call the pieces different things, this one is similar to the one I use in class.

And it begins.

And so what begins? Good lord a submarine for the pond? Nice!

Noticed this old post and thought I would update. We did replace our shop lights to LED and the difference in the electric bill was enough our office manager noticed the difference in the bill and brought it to our attention.

Jim, no submarine for sure. In my shallow pond, it would drag the bottom.

John, we're replacing lights with LED's one by one for the same reason. That, and I can finally see what I'm working on.

Clean, prime, and paint.

That your skid to mount tank on ?

Pat, it is. Flushed and drained the tank several times, then turned it upside down on a purlin base to let the remaining propane flow out what was the top valve. I checked it with my LEL meter, and it was completely void of propane after a couple of days. I feel comfortable cutting it now.

Al, since when did you switch to Eastern Time? Your post says 8/22/20 12:42 am but it's only 11:31 CST on 8/21/2020 here.....

Now THAT'S weird, look at the time stamp on my post.......

I'm sure you've researched how to safely cut into an old large propane tank, but I'll add my 2 cents anyways.

From what I understand, there's a possibility that residue from the propane may be impregnated into the steel walls of an old tank, and the heat from cutting might release the residue and lead to an explosion.

If I had to cut into a big ol' propane tank like the one you have, I'd first fill it completely with water, and as soon as the water began leaking from the cut I'd stop cutting and insert a hose into the tank and purge the growing air space with an inert gas, such as argon or nitrogen... Or better yet, I might just save myself some stress and pay the guy at the local welding shop to cut the initial opening... lol

At first, I was thinking you were gonna build a big ass barbecue smoker, but that nice looking stand you've built looks to be too tall for that, so now I dunno.

GW, absolutely chime in. I won't be cutting for a few weeks, so anybody with experience with this, jump right in.

Rhetorical question, but if you make your first cut under water, which is what most people do, how does that keep the propane from affecting secondary cuts above the water line? I know people have used Argon for the first cut(as you mentioned), and I'm not opposed to that. After filling the tank with Dawn and letting it sit, I drained and re-flushed with a power washer with TSP, and then flipped the tank to let it drain.

So a question. If propane is heavier than air, wouldn't having it sit upside down and drain naturally over a couple of weeks in 100-109 degree weather, after the flushings, help remove any potential residual propane? My LEL meter maxed immediately after I rolled it over, only had 2 bars the next day, and has not registered any internal flammables in the last 2 weeks.

Oh, it is going to be a smoker. It's a narrow but long 250 gallon tank, so the legs are a little higher on the sides of the tank than they would be if it was one of the rounder tanks.

There are thousands of propane smokers being used, so I'm open to any experiences with this. For clarity, I always try to go the best and safest route, not the easiest.

Fumigate it with CO2. Long as there is no oxygen in there it can't go boom. Check with a professional welder before doing it though to make sure it is right.

What snrub said, if you have an old gas motor like a briggs or similar, hook the exhaust up so that it blows into an opening and let it run for a 15 minutes, even choke it as much as will allow it to run. will remove all the oxygen out of the tank and you can cut on it as you please, safer then water that will just concentrate the gas fumes into a smaller area, not deactivate them, and also pretty much impossible to cut underwater.

Thanks guys, but the more I think about it, it's probably best that I just pick up this thread after the tank is cut. Cutting old propane tanks has a small tinge of voodoo involved, and there's really not a definitive answer. It all depends on the tank you would be cutting. I'd hate to post something that could potentially hurt somebody that read it, so...

I have spent some time at the American Welding Society Forum, and everything I've done so far is what was recommended by the guys that do tank repairs for a living.

I think if you purge it you will be fine.... I worked as a Pipefitter/ welder all my working career so I think you got this!

Al, as much as you thought about this before hand and prepped the tank, and you have the LEL meter, so you can test the levels of the gas inside after you've made a cut or two. If it doesn't move, then I wouldn't be worried about it. As much as you purged it and cleaned it, I would be VERY surprised if the LEL meter moved any.....

I agree. The procedure and safety considerations for cutting vessels (even water and air tanks) can vary, depending on specific applications, condition of the vessel, position of the vessel, the tools used for cutting, how you hold your mouth while making the cut, etc.

You're aware of the dangers and you're doing the research and the critical thinking, so I'm with Pat, I think you got this.

How to cut a propane tank.

How to cut a propane tank link

This one is pretty funny. Cutting a propane tank with a torch

Fire box time. The 1/4" plate had a slight bow, so I found two straight edges, and will tack, spread, compress, and clamp my way around it. I'm doing it on a lift because I'm too old to even think about moving it any more than I have to. I haven't cut the tank yet. I had to create an account at my welding shop to rent an inert gas rig, and I just haven't been back to get it.

Pat, I subscribe to a couple of pipefitters YouTube channels. You guys earn, or earned, your money.

You got that right and I got scars to back it up along with bunch of ailments that go along with it .its all good

Well, hows the progress been on the project?

Laborious to say the least. I was getting porosity on a couple of the fire box corners, and it kept popping up in the exact same places after I ground out the welds, and recleaned the 1'4" plate. I'm pretty sure it's contamination in the plate itself. Most of the metal I get comes from Mexico, so for all I know, there's bumpers from AMC Pacers in there somewhere.

Or whole Pinto's!

So, the smoker's done, and here are some pics. The propane tank sat for a while, but once it was cut, it just took a few weeks to finish.

I wound up using nitrogen to purge the propane tank when I cut it, and it was a nothing burger. No sparks, no nuclear explosions, no nothing. I did flip the tank upside down, and vented it from the bottom, so the nitrogen could push the heavier air out the bottom. The safety issue was well worth the cost of the nitrogen tank rental.

This is the sled, tank, and firebox prior to welding.


Doors cut


Smoke stack added, and doors trimmed and hinges installed. I really wanted to build this whole smoker in house, so I wound up cutting the spring handles off, and made my own. I did buy 3 horse shoes though. 2 for the lid supports, and one for the vent cap lid.


I put top racks on both sides, and added hangers for chicken or pork belly.


DONE!!

Very nice Al!

Sweet! Slide it down to Oakwood please. Good looking and hope it cooks good for ya!

AMAZING!

Wow! Very nice!!!

You'll be able to feed the whole village in one go with that thing. Very nice!

Looks Great! How are the ribs?

Art!

Thanks guys.

Bob, ribs are in the freezer waiting their turn. Today, I'm playing with the diffuser plates, and treating the grates with tallow. The side of the tank closest to the firebox was 30 degrees hotter than the stack side, which is normal. I adjusted the plates, and now the firebox side is only 10 degrees warmer.

Getting the heat to level out is a project and you probably never will get it completely equal, I built a whole hog rotisserie and trust me, I had to do a ton of test runs, trial and error before I got it reasonably close, which actually works decent for me because I put the ham end of the hog closest to the firebox end and therefore it works out pretty good, because the thicker meat takes a little more heat or longer time to cook. I will have to post a picture of the way I built my lid to cam over and makes it pretty slick to open.

I played with the plates once I got it to a steady cooking temp (270-280), and finally got it to a 5 degrees difference. I'll call that good.

gehajake, post your pics. I'd like to see a DIY whole hog rotisserie.

So glad I saw this. Outstanding work Al, proud of you.

FireIsHot,
I’m going to show my friends this. Absolutely amazing job!

Hay's cut and put up, fish feeders are slowing down, and bucks are on the rut, so it's time for another winter project.

I have a fabrication table, but I needed a bigger one that was comfortable with abuse. All the sticks are cut, now it's cleanup time.

Al, how many times have you used that smoker in the past year and a half? Post pics of the table as it progresses. How thick is the top?

Scott, I use it about once a month. It loves 250 degrees, and it'll hold that temp for 45-60 minutes which means far less baby sitting than I'm used too.

The top is 3/16". I spent my money on the square/rectangular tubing and hardware, so the top can be replaced when metal gets cheaper. I'd love a 3/4" top, but I ain't gonna spend $1,300 for it.

Thanks. I don't see ANYTHING going down in price much over the next few years, if ever. I've seen some pretty amazing welding tables, and I'm afraid to ask what they cost. One has holes all over the top to allow you to use clamps wherever needed.

What size will it be?

I picked up 2 welding tables from a former member here that have tops that are 1/2" I believe. I have to use a Presto hydraulic stacker to pick each table up to move it. They are HEAVY!

I put 1/4" thick angles on the top (back and one side) and made sure that they are 90°, using "C" clamps to hold them to the table. Then I can clamp pieces that have to be welded at 90° to them. I also ran a round rod between the legs on one side to hold the welding clamps out of the way but close to where I am working.

I guess I missed this response, I will try to dig up some pics of my smoker in action.
To say I did it from scratch is maybe almost misleading, I owned a welding and a machine shop for years with my brother, I had all the tools to work with, including a roll form. press break, sheet metal shears and all.
I have a big heavy old welding table that I got for a deal in the past and absolutely never set it up or used it, its about 5' by 8', six legs, extremely well built, all it needs is the top on it, Id make somebody a pretty good deal on it.

Al, you have a trailer, it will save you a lot of fab time! LOL

Scott, the table is 4X8.

Also, the fab tables can get awfully expensive. Price Siegmund tables while siting down. I have a 30"X54" Certififlat table and love it. Much, much cheaper than other tables, and makes square welds effortless. This one has a 1/4" table top.

Al, I was corrected, the guy that I bought it from still reads the posts here. The larger table is 3/8" HR steel, the smaller table is 5/8" HRPO Laser Grade Plate. The smaller table is over 400#. no idea how heavy the bigger table is but it's HEAVY. Your 3/16" top weighs 245# all by itself.

Prices have came way down from a year ago. We was paying up to a dollar a pound 4 flat steel. It's down 2 around 45 cents a pound now.

If you don't need a huge sheet go to a scrap yard. We ( company i work 4) throw away (scrap) sheets that would b big enough 2 do anything you want. We get paid 17 cents a pound 4 it. Not sure how much they would sell it 4.

Just cleaning up a thread. Here's the table, and it's one of the best shop additions I've done. Being able to level the table out, and raise it up to my fab table makes me happy.


Clamps and the leveling socket wrench is on this side. The storage buckets are restaurant dirty dish tubs, and they last forever if they're kept out of the sun.


Grinders, tube benders, and cutoff saws on this end. Everything is powered off of the table.

Beautiful table, I just finished up this little fixture table for the shop. 3' x 5' x 3/8" with all being laser cut out. Just had to ream the holes to size. Still gotta add an electrical outlet and a few other odds and ends.

I only use the table for smaller stuff... the majority of what I do in the shop would never fit on a table haha.

Al and Bob, those look great. I need to get with the program and get the shop organized.