Need some advice from the Pond Boss family.

As many of you know, I finished construction of my pond last spring. It immediately began filling with generous rainfall and multiple springs. Then July came and my small watershed was exposed. It's desperation time. The pond is holding water, but the level has dropped to probably 4 feet max. There's no way around it. I need a well.

I was not planning on having electricity at the pond, but now I need it. Nearest electricity is approximately 700 feet from the pond's edge. We will run it from there. We do have to cross a creek and have the posts to do this. The rest of the wire will be buried. I'm looking at probably needing ~25gpm from the well and will eventually use it to run an aeration system.

Based on this information, knowing full well I may need to elaborate on a few things, what size of Romex cable will I need to run this distance? What other things should I consider to get this done as soon as possible? I'd like to keep costs at a minimum, but realize running electricity and a well aren't necessarily cheap.

Depends on how many amps are required and the service voltage.

What is your service and how loaded is it right now?

A 25gpm well could be any combination of pump/motor from a small motor to a much larger rig.

Have your well defined with all the particulars. Start Here.

How much did it go down? Is it all from evaporation or is it seeping. Thought I remember that you dug through a sand layer. Is that the level the water is at now?

Went down probably three or so feet once the July drought took hold. No sand. Very solid clay so seepage or leaking doesn't seem to be an issue. We just had a very bad couple months rain-wise.

A well seems drastic. One day it will rain!

I see there is a creek within 700 feet. Can you pump from it and just run the power to that

Just due to evaporation, my stock tank ponds near the house are down 8". That's even after getting rained in a few times. Weather service said we broke the 80 year old 7-1 thru 9-1 record for lowest amount of rain in that 2 month period.

Josh, my pond (in sand) with a 25 gpm well was still dropping 1/4"-1/2" per day. When I shut the well off, it increased to 1" per day. I shut it off a week or so ago. Since July 1, my pond has dropped 35".

Josh, check the well pumps and motor draws. All pumps are NOT alike. You can pump the same GPM at the same head, but pump "A" might be a 3/4 hp motor and pump "B" might be a 1.5 hp motor......

There is a creek very close, but not enough elevation to run a ram pump and I don't want to risk invasives with trash pumping from it.

What are typical wells in your area?

That will give you an idea on what to look for in a pump.

I'm not sure how to answer your question JKB.

I think what he means is what are the casing size, depth and GPM produced from typical wells in your area near the pond.

For instance here, a typical house well has a 4" casing, and will produce anywhere from 10-30 gpm from a well that is between 90-110 feet deep. Agricultural wells (center pivot) can be up to a 16" casing, and can supply over 2,000 gpm. Well depth is still in the 90'-110' range.

As for electricity, I'm assuming you have 220v-240v single phase available. You need to measure the actual voltage to determine where you stand. For instance, here I have 243 volts.

If you have 3-phase, consider yourself lucky. You can save a bunch on electric costs!

Typical well depth, static water level, draw down and rate.

As an example for wire.
If you have a 240 volt service and were to run 60amps to your pond with less than 3% voltage drop. The size of direct bury copper cable required would be 4/0 3 conductor with a ground.

I just got a price for 750 feet of copper cable, sit down now..... $12,562.50 Go with aluminum. It will be much cheaper, but the cable will be much larger. 350MCM.

Also, if your service is a lower voltage, then your wire size will increase.

Like esshup stated, you need to measure your actual service voltage to know where you really stand.

Esshup can white knuckle you thru this measurement

JKB, that's why I have that aluminum wire in the stable. When I priced copper, it was about triple the cost of aluminum.

Our estimator just told me that we don't quote copper anymore unless it is absolutely required.

I'll try to answer these questions, but this is completely unfamiliar territory for me. In talking with TJ, he had his well guy go over 100 feet and go with a larger pump (50gpm I think). I don't need that. My water is much higher being next to a creek and wouldn't need that much gpms. Without knowing a lick about this stuff, I was considering the possibility of running 12 gauge Romex.

My well hit water at 170' - went another 100' down so I wouldn't have issues during drought. Need 5 hp pump to hit my 50 GPM. Josh would likely hit water around 50-80' is my WAG, and needs less GPM probably 20-25 GPM. Based on that rough information, I was thinking he'd need 1 - 3 HP pump.

Thanks TJ.

Perhaps, you could place the well and aeration pump closer to you power source and pipe the water and air to the pond. Small diameter pvc pipe is considerably cheaper than large diameter electrical wire.

Josh, I hate this for you, hope there's a reasonable way to get this handled.

Omaha, just to give you an idea, this is what a 4/0 wire looks like: (its Aluminum)



A wee bit bigger than 12 AWG, and there would be 3, plus a smaller ground wire. Didn't have any 350MCM Aluminum laying around, but it's larger.

This would be for 60 amps at 240v running 750 feet (copper). You won't need that tho. It was just an example. If it were me and I was going thru the expense, I would at least run 60 for having greater future options.

At least consider 30 amps to the pond. That would be 3/0 Aluminum for full load, but you can usually tweak that down based on what you might be running at the same time to 2/0. Also don't know how picky your inspectors are.

Based on the info TJ posted and looking at some Grundfos pump curves. Probably could get handily by with a 3/4 hp pump. I would probably bump it up to a 1.5hp 3 phase 5 stage pump, and toss a VFD on it. Tweak it back to 25gpm and it will eat substantially less watts than the 3/4hp single phase pump. Plus, you have the option of cranking it up!

Yeah, it can get complicated!

Figure a couple grand for aluminum direct bury cable on the minimum side of things to make the motor spin.

Gully, we're on the same page here. I suggested popping well near the power source [farm] and running 700' PVC to the pond. 250' 1.5" PVC is $150-ish - plenty large enough for 25 GPM - might even get away with 1.25" which is obviously cheaper. Rent a ditch witch for $75/day. For aeration drop the 1" PVC at same time as the well run and leave both ends accessible.

Only drawback is there's still no power at the pond for light. Suppose you could go solar and batteries for light - but how often are you really going to be hanging out at the pond after dark?

PVC plan seems it would be more economical but not sure that's critical for Josh.

If it matters, the plan I described is the one I followed for my ponds and it saved me a significant $.

When asking my boss a question about this. He mentioned, why would you want to run 700' of electrical? Only reason I mentioned was to have power at the pond.

My 2 pennies.

Omaha, maybe your electrical provider would install another service drop on your property, next to the pond. In my area they provide the first 800' without charge to a proposed house site. Even if they charged you, it may not cost as much as doing it yourself. Seems like I saw a discussion about this in another thread, a few months ago.

JKB, I have just about enough knowledge of electricity to be considered dangerous. So, I have a question. On a long run, such as the 700' in question, would it be OK to install a ground rod for the breaker box, at the end of the run, instead of running a 700' ground wire? If so, is there a downside to doing so? I may eventually run power to my tractor shed, and was just wondering.

For that distance, I would have your electricity provider put up another pole with transformer. They did that when I put in a well about 75 yards from the house. It has it's own transformer and meter. Of course, the meter fee is $20 per month.

You can, no downside, but you will have to treat it like a new service entering your shed with a main breaker type panel and all that stuff. I would want a main breaker anyway. May cost more for installation tho.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other, but check with your local code first. Michigan is really strict, and wouldn't be a problem here.

Not saying that it wouldn't be where you are at, but check first! Some States are nut's when it comes to NEC Code, and MI isn't one of them super nutty ones.

My reason for wanting electricity at the pond was long term thinking. While it will be used immediately to run a pump and fill the pond, it can be used for multiple things right at the pond down the road. But if the cost is that much different, I can certainly consider running pipe instead of electricity.

I had not thought of inquiring with the electric company. I will do that today.

Thanks, for the reply. For some reason, I was thinking that it was best to install both, a ground wire in the run, and a ground rod at the end of run. I have a hard time grasping the concept of electricity.

Typically you would run a ground wire and bond it (ground rod/rods) at the other end of a long run. Most electricians would probably do it that way. Enhanced lightning protection if a ground strike occurs along the run. A good grounding system is also required for GFCI stuff to work as well.

All depends on what's been adopted in your jurisdiction. If you need a permit, you'll have to follow what they say.

So that's what bonding means! I had a neighbor, who is an electrician, which has since moved, who helped me install the service for a workshop and cabin. He mentioned, that we were bonding, and I thought he was talking about our friendship...lol....Thanks, for clearing that up.

I'll follow suit, and bond the ground in the tractor shed, and install GFCI as well.

So......what's new?

Have a call into a well guy to run some numbers for me. What I need. Public power wasn't an option here. Running PVC or wire, I'd prefer to have power at the pond for future usage.

Pulling power is the way to go for long term goals.

Been snooping around Nebraska and it looks like they have adopted NEC2011 (National Electric Code that came out in 2010) Seems to be recent tho. Douglas county's website still states NEC2008, but certain links go to Lincoln.

There is a 21 page doc on electric code which outlines, defines and makes a few exceptions, but is quite strict!

I would consult with a local electrical contractor and get the scoop on this from them.

NEC2014 is hitting the street's in a few weeks, and from what I "have heard", it has some humdinger's that will drain pretty much everyone's wallet! A few States will adopt this pretty quickly, but most will be a number of year's out.

It is for safety tho, and would like to give the Firefighters, Ambulance Crew, ER and Peace Officers a break!

People die every day from red necking or DIY electrical installations. Don't have to happen tho!

I am definitely going with a professional. I ran across unexpected things at my house that weren't up to code a few years ago when we had a tree take out a power line. It was extremely frustrating and costly. And due to prior residents not doing things the right way.

So, apparently business is good in the well community. Most are booked up till winter. I do have a guy coming out Sunday to look things over with me.

Equipemnt is costly, keeping new players out of the business, and I think that "no water" situations are addressed first. Punching in a new well for a pond isn't high on their priority list.

Yep. Sounded like irrigation was their primary focus at the moment.