I am trying to decide between digging a Fish Pond or converting my barn into an Aquaponic fish shed.....
Is there anyone who has tried both and made a preference to either?
If you have to google aquaponics...move along
Thanks

I raise fish indoors in a RAS and outdoors in ponds. I will be setting one of my tanks outside in the spring and growing garden vegetables via a deep raft system in conjunction with most likely a mbbr. The waste water that is not recirculated will be diverted to a conventional raised garden right next to it.

Why can't you do both?

What I want to build is a system that pumps from pond into fish tank then into a flood/drain beds and they drain back into the pond.

You won't have enough nitrates if your water comes from the pond. The highest amount of nitrates I've seen in a pond is 4 or 5 mg/l and that was an overcrowded pond with too high of ammonia and nitrites. 4 or 5 mg/l is not enough for hydroponic growth.

How much nitrates does it take for basic or general hydroponics? I have lettuce growing from water in a tank with YP.

I have a existing pond and wanted to do cage culture,but due to dep regulations this is now my long term goal.

But Cecil I want to go from pond to a 300 gal or so fish tank then to the grow beds then back to the pond.

What goals are you trying to accomplish? That might be the deciding factor.

Yes please do tell!! it sounds interesting what you plan to do!! hope the site can help!

Blair
If you look at calculations by Murray Hallam, you will find that you need surprisingly few
Fish to "feed" your bacteria and plants.
The pond water would only serve to dilute the nutrients etc.. You need in your closed loop system
I see no benefit in added water volume
And just for credibility, I didnt need to to google aquaponics, and I have attended seminars on aquaponics and met Murray
I also stayed at a holiday inn express last night

I just realized Blair was not the OP

The simple answer is aquaponics really is about
The plants, again your yield of fish will be small ( relatively) but you
Can grow an incredible amount of veggies, etc

You mention a barn, which sounds large, I would advise a starter system
First, so you can learn the nuances. Also, dumb question, how does sunlight
Get to plants in the barn

I tend to think different about aquaponics. Simply, maximize fish production first, then, side stream off what you need for the veggies. Not a very complicated scenario.

Plants need light. The Sun is free!

O.K. that's different. My bad, I read you were using just straight pond water with no fish in the barn. So your pond water will be your make up water?

The fish tank will provide the nitrates you need as the fish are concentrated. However you will still need some form of biofiltration to convert ammonia produced by the fish to nitrites and then nitrates,and as back up when you harvest your plants.

Does that make sense?

How big was your pond? Unless it's quite large your discharge will make your pond water ripe for algae and macrophyte growth. Additionally you run the risk of introducing parasites and pathogens to your concentrated tank fish if you use straight pond water, which can go crazy in a tank of concentrated fish. However if you do use the pond water for make up water you could use a UV filter or chlorinate it and then dechlorinate the water via aeration before adding it to the fish.

Not trying to be a downer just telling it like it is.

BTW are you thinking raft culture, media, NFT, or all of the above?

Not sure there's an exact value but all the sources agree on "nitrate rich" water. Most of the fish we culture can handle up to a few hundred parts per million. As you know you won't see that level in a normal pond due to all the other plants, algae and macrophytes consuming the nitrates.

Amen to that! It can't be understated what hands on experience on a small scale will teach you. You can read all the books and have the best information but the responsibility of live fish and live plants is a whole different ball game. Murphy's Law applies!

With my small scale RAS I'm still tweeking things and building different kinds of biofilters before moving on to a larger scale system. It should save me not only money but heartache when I take the jump to a large scale system.

That said if you already have the barn...

I would also add that learning the ropes of rearing fish in an RAS would get you better prepared for aquaponics. Many people that want to do aquaponics get it bass awkwards and really need to learn how to keep the fish happy and alive first before moving on to the plants in combination with the fish.



Grow lights.

Thanks Cecil for your input as I am fairly new to tank culture. My plans were to use a flood/drain media grow bed. The way I understood these style systems is the media(bacteria in it) acts as your biofilter.

I hadn't thought about parasites coming from the pond. I did grow rainbow trout in a 150gal tank with 10gal/min pumping through it with no issues. I only had them in there for 1 month or so though.

I will be using the 34ac lake for this.

My barn is small and Iam thinking of replacing the roof with plexiglass.... for sun exposure.
So the fish yield is small eh?
One of the reasons I may build a pond....just not sure how easy it is to raise fish in a pond.
Eventually, I want to grow enough vegetables and fish to become self reliant.
Thanks

Not sure what a RAS is....is it easier to raise fish outside or inside? I live in Oklahoma, which has some pretty extreme weather, both cold & hot.

The goals are established.....the road is not certain.

to have enough fish to be self reliant, a pond would probably be better, as it can be bigger and "can" survive with less human maintance. Just my thought. With Auquaponics, at the very least you will need to pump water back up to your veggies, and also feed the fish.

In a pond, you dont need any electricity if you are lucky, and the fish culture can be curved to be self suporting.

Just a thought!

More water = mare capable area of raising fish.

Your barn idea sounds pretty cool too. How "small" is it? and how big would you make your tank or tanks?

Well, that's what I was thinking also so I appreciate your feedback....now, I guess my goal is to dig a pond....onward and upward
Thanks

i've got a small aquaponic system in my basement.. well, medium may be a better term.. i started with a 110gal ft outdoors in 2010 and moved into the basement that fall.. now i've got an 8' kiddie pool with 200 fish (yp and tilapia), and a few dozen crayfish..i've got a "single tote ibc system" raising rosy red minnows, but my breeder blue tilapia will be going in it..
raising a few hundred marmokreb crayfish in smaller tanks, mostly feed for the yp (and a couple bg)
i've got 3 IBC tote halves that i use as growbeds.. i'm only using t8 shop lights for lighting (1 pair of 32watt bulbs in each fixture, 3 fixtures per growbed).. we've had lots of lettuce, basil, radishes, beets..
so yeah, depends on what you want to do.. i'd love a pond but i'd still do ap given the chance

Yeah if you just want fish for the table Blair a pond your size should do it with little maintenance.

Keith,

What are marmokreb crayfish?

I think they are parthenogenesis marbled crayfish that are found in the aquarium trade.

I've done home aquaponics in a small greenhouse, and I volunteer at a large trout/aquaponics research facility. At the research facility it can be profitable to raise the fish under very controlled conditions, but it is a fulltime job for several people to keep 30,000 fish in the raceways. When something goes wrong, it can really go wrong in a big hurry, wiping things out before realizing what is unfolding. There are also a number of issues with large scale aquaponics, even including e-coli issues.

My home ponds (0.7 and 0.25 acres) are far easier to manage, and especially for a variety of different kinds of fish. For a regular supply of very fresh fish, fish cages are inexpensive and simple to build. They make great holding pens where you can hold and fatten them until just before dinner.

This year I hope to install a hoop house on the dam of the 0.7 acre pond, with raised beds drip irrigated from the pond using solar operated pumps. Onsite-made compost and worm castings will provide the majority of nutrients.

At least in our case, this is the best solution for us. My main garden had to be taken out this past season due to a construction project. So, last fall I plowed about a 150x150 plot where I sowed winter (cereal) rye. The rye will get plowed under when the ground is dry enough to plow with the tractor, then get tilled, and fenced. This garden will be irrigated regularly from the pond using a trash pump and sprinklers on tripods.

We supply fish, and our 10 chickens provide eggs for three families. We garden-share with three other families, and we pond share with one other family. Major compost making, butchering, canning, saurkraut making, meat processing, etc., is also shared amongst several families.

We aren't food self-sufficient, but we produce quite a bit of our healthy own foods.

Ken,

How are there ecoli issues with large scale aquaponics when ecoli only comes from mammals and not cold blooded animals like fish?

catmandoo

deep bows

you da man

http://www.utpa.edu/faculty/zfaulkes/marmorkrebs/#Links

The huge spring that provides water to the raceways receives both groundwater and runoff from nearby cattle fields well above the spring, and well away from the spring. The water is run through UV light before entering the raceways, but there is always some present, or the possibility of it being present is always there. If the cut lettuce is accidentally splashed with water, or if some leaves happen to touch the water, they become contaminated and cannot be commercially used.

I see. I do know UV is not always 100 percent depending on the water clarity and how old the bulbs are.

So they are utilizing raceways and not jut the large circular tanks for the trout?

One thing has me baffled. How the side drain of the Cornell dual drain they use does not regulate the depth of the water as it appears to be below the water's surface of the circular tank. It doesn't seem logical to me.

Cecil,

Yes, the water just flows through the raceways, to a large aquaculture greenhouse, through an even larger aquaculture high tunnel, and then through a bio filter bag before going into about a half-acre pond used for growing things like water cress. The water then goes into a creek where it is purer than when it comes out of the spring.

If anybody wants to visit sometime, just let me know and we can arrange such a visit. It is always changing, but here is a little info from about 18 months ago. Reymann Farm

Ken

I was thinking of the wrong facility then. I was thinking of the Freshwater Institute in Shepardstown. Didn't you do some work there too?

I just get to visit there. For our WV Aqualculture Association conference next week, we get to tour the National Center for Cool and Cold Water Aquaculture, also near Shepherds town. I just get to visit there too. But, we've got some pretty neat aquaculture/agriculture research facilities all around the state.

I am clearly out of my league here, but I think the ecoli issue needs to be clarified

Ecoli is an issue as you mention above because of outside contamination

Fish do not carry ecoli, and therefore this would not be an issue with a closed loop
Backyard system, unless ecoli was introduced from another source (ie humans)

National Center for Cool and Cold Water Aquaculture, rainbow trout research, pdf of powerpoints which is kinda interesting and kinda dated

http://aquaculture.ext.wvu.edu/r/download/45461

http://aquaculture.ext.wvu.edu/r/download/59158

http://aquaculture.ext.wvu.edu/r/download/59157

Aquaculture at Reymann Memorial Farm

http://aquaculture.ext.wvu.edu/r/download/45639

"theft by 2 footed wingless predators"

conference with tour
http://wvutoday.wvu.edu/n/2013/01/10/wvu-extension-service-to-host-aquaculture-forum

forum schedule, lots of good topics for pond bosses, and aquaponics (thread title)

http://www.aquaculture.ext.wvu.edu/r/download/148561

probly old news, but still time to get there, but alas not me

and ken, (how many kens are there in WV?), the posters (i think the wall variety) sound interesting, please include pictures of them with your report

The speakers sound interesting too and they are pulling them in from Arkansas and Tennessee. And further down "This presentation will describe the format and principles relevant to conducting aquaponics with profit in mind."

ok, last link on WV aquaponics, interesting for me

That's partially mine -- I'm hosting/moderating the pond-related sessions and Dr. Ken Semmens has the producer half. Bob Lusk (Mr. Pond Boss) has graciously agreed to do the opening for my sessions on Friday and Saturday. You can find a little more about it from my previous post - Mid-Atlantic Pond Conference

We've still got plenty of room. Come on down.

Ken

sorry, but here is old forum presentations and posters, it just looks like too much, to not have 1 more link

http://aquaculture.ext.wvu.edu/forums

including our Kens 2009 presentation, with Cecil making an appearance
http://aquaculture.ext.wvu.edu/r/download/45455

Wow. That is an old presentation. Those photos are at least 10 years old. It looks a lot different now.

You must have a good politician funneling dollars into your state. Mods if this is inappropriate please delete.

Gallop,

Thanks. I think Cat and I know that, but it's good you brought it up so others can makes sure they understand that.

I think one of the many strong points of Aquaponics if done without any contamination by outside mammal excretion is the lack of ecoli.

I may not have a choice since we appear to be stuck in this drought...all the outdoor ponds are drying up around here.

Join the club. Sadly most of the country is well below normal precip and has been since late spring of last year. Of course I'm sure it's not as bad as you but still not good. We haven't even had much snow precip here.

Sure glad I can top off my ponds with a well. Just hope this doesn't continue for a while or a well may not help.

An idea I had was to use the barn as a fish space and cut out one side and add a solar green house for aquaponics. Use the barn side as a solar generator.

Your pond could be done as a shrimp farm if you design right. Use water from pond for vegetables that can't be done in aquaponics or a nursery.