I get some great wildlife pics of just about every critter on my trail cam, including Coyotes but I've only caught a few of them in daylight and in color.

This may be normal, but I just thought this one has the most beautiful coat!

Beautiful picture!

I couldn't kill a yote. Too much like a dog. And smarter.

How about if they were eating your pets?

Pets, wives, children...

The line is drawn when they start taking the fish !!!!!!!

Yeah look like a dog or not they are going down if I see one.... When they start eating your future 1000 dollar calf you would kill them.... I know your statement says you wouldn't kill them but lets remember what they really are... and that's a wild animal that will to eat your kid if they can.... Just like them wild dogs I would smoke them too in a heartbeat.... and sleep at night just fine!

RC

My dog weights 130 lbs. She's safe.

Just like George's special breed that guards his sheep, it would be tough for them to get their jaws around her neck and through all that fur and thick hide. And as an Akita she can be fierce if she has to be.



Hey guys I perfectly understand what a nuisance and the damage coyotes can do. It's just that I couldn't shoot one. That's all.

That's a great picture Keith. Where are you at from Lincoln?

great picture

They give me problems, I will shoot. Otherwise, I enjoy watching them and let em be.

Thanks NEDOC (and others), just two miles East near Walton. Are you near here?

I'm 70 miles SW of Lincoln, or about 25 east of Hastings.

I've got a .6 acre RES and SMB pond I've been working with TJ on. And then a 16 acre pond that has worse visibility than your pond. Probably about 3" secchi disc reading. I'm trying to rid it of carp and turn it into a blue catfishery.

On a related note, just saw this released in the news about changes in hunting seasons in Michigan:

The state DNR has changed the rules on Coyote hunting. Coyote may now be hunted year round in Michigan.

But hunters may not use dogs between the middle of April and the second week of July.

Possum may also be hunted year round, and the raccoon season will run October 1st through the end of the January.

Fox season will run from October 15th through March 1st.

Trapping rules have not been changed.

Private land owners also retain the right to shoot critters when they are in the act of doing damage.



(personal comment, I wish the right to shoot critters which are doing damage could be applied to GBH, why should they get a pass?)

Agreed....

ps: those evil birds are smart.

Canyon I will make an exception for these rascals:

You can get a permit to shoot them from the feds as long as you have exhausted all nonlethal means and you raise fish for a living. It's 100 dollars. Sell some fish and come up with a business name?

I used to buy one but have better things to do with 100 dollars, and don't like to kill creatures that are just doing what they evolved to do. They were here before I put my pond in I and made it an attractive place to feed.

Just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions.

Here is a nice cinnamon yote. Hope he got his seed out before.

We have a very large problem with them around Ontario to the point that it is really effecting the deer population.

Great game cam shot. He looks to be molting a bit in the hind end getting his summer coat. His front is all in for the summer. If you look close you can tell.

Not sure if you seen this one we found like this durring out deer hunt? Took three of us to let him out of the fence. IF you look close at the picture you can see the Y stick to the left going in for his neck. They have little power to open their jaw so once closed its easy to hold. JUST DON'T LET IT GO OR YOU WILL HAVE YOUR HANDS FULL. We don't take any yotes until there is allot of snow on the ground.

Cheers Don.

I shoot them on sight, but I live rural and they love the taste of dog! One dog is never safe around coyotes. They will circle and attack from behind. I lost a Belgium shepherd last year and nearly lost my boxer 15+ years ago. That dude was tough, but still lost part of his hind end. I always have at least 2 or 3 dogs, but if I get one that is a solo roamer....... I had them circle one dog 20 yards outside my front door, but I was at home. Can't blame them for doing what they do, but I shoot all I can around my place.

I was just down at a friends place picking up a side of beef. He is having a problem with coyotes attacking his cattle, so he bought a donkey. I guess they do a pretty damn good job at fending off the yotes, I never knew that. First thing he asked me, "Do you want to see my white ass?"

Sheep ranchers in Colorado are using Llamas for the same thing.

But, a Llama isn't any protection against Mountain Lions.....

Cecil, I feel the same way as you, but when they start impacting my pocketbook, I have to take a different stance.

I lost a whole cage full of HSB last year to GBH predation, and that is with a "bird net" lid on it. This year the $100 spent was less than 10% of my fish loss last year. I am taking more steps to ensure that the fish cages are bird proof, but I also am looking at the $100 spent as an insurance policy. I have legal options now.

Regarding coyotes, a guy (I believe in Southern Indiana) put a trail cam on a coyote den. From the time the pups were weaned until they left the den Mom & Dad brought 80 fawns home for dinner......

We've got coyotes galore and still the deer population is strong. I wouldn't mind if they thinned the deer a little more actually.

How did the GBH get the fish? Did they land on the cage? Did they just kill the fish and not get them out?

Now that sucks!! If them or hogs are around and I am in a position to shoot they are going down.... Not a second thought...

On the Donkey note yes that does work pretty good. Donkeys will flat take off after a yote and kick and bite and make a ruckus that the farmer has to here if he is near by!! The other night I had one on my camera at the land it was 10 at night I had to go to the truck to get something and thought I heard foot steps in the leaves.... and sure enough about 3 minutes later my farmer next door his Donkey was having a fricken fit!!! Sounded like he was in my yard he was so loud!! Pulled the camera that next morning and there he was 10:02. Donkeys are/and can be a force if pissed off and they don't back down from a yote it's the craziest thing I have ever seen!!

RC

80 fawns killed by one pair of coyotes to support a single litter deserves a little math. Over what period of time were they fed to how many pups? How many pounds of meat were consumed by this one family? Why did this clutch stay in just one den when most move around? I eliminate coyotes due to their numbers and adverse effects on deer, but 80 fawns by one pair and pups seems unbelievable.

Dead fish that had been in an ice chest for a week - no ice. There was ice to start but relative they were left for did not come pick them up. A week later - yuck. Dumped them where the buzzards could get them . Yote got there before the birds and came in and ate too many or maybe got a bone stuck. If you look close you can see fish on the ground and no marks (wounds) on the yote.

Ya Brian the really smart bunch will play with the dog. Kinda like hide and seek a bit and keep the dog moving away from the roads and houses. Once away the bunch will turn on the dog and eat them. They will eat the wild cats too.

The pack will circle a dog and they will grab and break a leg. Once that happens the dog is toast. Love to see donkeys pound the yotes into the ground.

I worry not about my German Shepherds. Its not just weight that determines the outcome. We have a lot of coyotes. Never had one challenge my GS dogs over the last 25 years.

Some coyote hunters use dogs as decoys. The dogs will go out and act as though they want to play with the coyotes, and then they come back to the hunter who is wainting in ambush, and whey the yote get in range, no more yote.

My pups don't need help.

RAH, I read the same article, I just can't remember where, but it was a true situation. And if the fawns are young they are not that large and might only feed one or two pups.
I wish I could remember where I read it or saw it. Maybe growing deer TV, QDMA?

Tracy

I shoot every time I get the opportunity when it comes to yotes. My problem that just came up this week is the one and only neighbor that I don't get see eye to eye with (due to him trespassing) has just showed up with a large dark colored German Sheppard. Now, he house is about a mile away from my farmhouse but his dog is not restricted. I hope I don't mistake him for a yote, because I have seen similar looking yotes here in E Texas. I need to talk to this neighbor.

Tracy

I've pulled a few bird dogs hung up on fences just like this. Scary times for sure. As soon as it happens, you can tell by the dog's screams. Haven't been bit by the dog yet, but close. They are in full panic mode.

I did some quick reading after this thread. I found one DNR study that found 40% fawn mortality from coyotes within the first day of birth! That is pretty crazy!

Tracy,

Come see the new toys, they will assist you with your coyote problems.

Guess I need to import some yotes. We are over run with deer. And if the coyotes get too thin we get over run with rabbits. Between deer and rabbits, a soybean crop can be destroyed in a timber enclosed bottom field.

I leave them alone (unless they look sick) and let nature set the balance. The rabbits and deer seem to follow a "rolling spawn" so to speak with one set of population numbers following the other.

Have one at the old pond helping me keep some goslings from claiming my ponds as home. Don't know where they and their parents are walking in from.

I find the coyotes preferable to the deer. Deer don't eat mice.

Our hunting group us dogs to hunt the yotes. All the dog have a tracking collar. We follow the dogs with our truck and find where the yote crosses the road. We put a fresh dog out on the track after it crosses the road and pick up the dog that is in the rear or last. We rotate six dogs this way and the yote will just stop when beat tired of running. Our dogs will circle the yote with their asses to the yote. When the tracking collars stop crossing the road and the dogs chop turns to a long howl we walk in the country block. As soon as you pull the gun off your shoulder the dogs are ready to head to the truck.

We can get three to five a day on a good day with fresh snow. The deeper the snow the faster they wear down.

Cheers Don.

I don't kill anything I don't eat. I think killing predators is, TO ME, like killing big bluegills for eating bass fingerlings.

But, I have absolutely no problem with the yote hunters who disagree with me. If it's on the wrong side of the fence, it's your yote. On my side, it's mine. But, if they become a problem, I'll kill them.

I also don't kill rattlesnakes unless they are around the house, other structures, or ponds.

When it comes to safety while living in the countryside, myself and my dogs are far more concerned about people with guns than anything nature may throw at us.

If the story about 80 fawn being drug back to the same coyote den is true, I would guess that it was made possible because of a severe overpopulation of deer.


Nice pics, Keith.............. That's what I call, good shooting!

Dave,

I understand and respect your position. I look at it this way; man has upset the balance so we are charged with correcting the problems.

To me it is interesting to see John wanting more coyotes to control the deer and rabbits because he grows crops, but I want more deer and other game animals so I don't want the coyotes or hogs.

its all perspective.

I follow Dave's way of thinking. I will however harass GBH and cormorants around the pond with my 22 (which is perfectly legal as long as you don't try to kill them). They catch on very quick and pretty much leave our pond alone after a couple of encounters.

The only predator around my place that might need some controlling is the guy with the farm next to me. My neighbor said he told him he took 23 deer last season. When asked him how he could eat all that meat, he laughed and said he only takes the backstrap, the rest the backhoe eats....I still can't figure how one guy can have that many tags...

We've used a guard llama before to protect our flock from wild dogs and coyotes to great effect. They will chase predators and kick them to death. I don't know how they'd fare against a mountain lion but predatory animals usually won't risk a broken bone for a meal.

More recently, we've swapped out the llama for an Anatolian. It would mean less hassle for us to take care of, but some of our new neighbors call the city animal cruelty hotline on the regular to say that somehow it's a crime to keep a working dog outside any more. The inspector always leaves shaking his head but we still have to suffer his visit.

Ya know, if I raised chickens and a hawk was getting them, I wouldn't call the Feds and ask for help or a permit. Nor do I call the county Sheriff if neighbors dogs cause problems.

I have, until the last 2 years, raised wheat to help the deer get through the Winter and the droughts. And, I didn't hunt there. For the last 5 years of drought, we have been short on all wildlife and the food plots, I think, helped. These days, I don't see as many deer but neither do I hear a lot of song dogs.

This is real close to my way of thinking also. I will still trap muskrats when they show up, however.

Of course it has to be said that when one has a pond full of HBG, the definition for what constitutes a pestilence is considerably restricted. I'm somewhat surprised that even muskrats make the list

There's the cannonball sailing over your bow, Captain Tony. Gonna sit back now and enjoy the volley...

KA-BLOOEY!!!!

It is interesting to see different perspectives on coyote control. Some folks here express disdain for animals that eat their fish, even when some of these fish eaters are protected from harm by wildlife laws. On the other hand, some seem to think that controlling a pest species like coyotes that compete with hunters for deer is a different concept, even though wildlife laws in many places (like where I live) allow coyotes to be taken any time due to their pest status. While I have not targeted coyotes myself (although I have taken a few), I am seriously thinking about it due to their high population. While I would prefer to do this when the fur can be used, the glut of fur on the global market right now takes the incentive out of this (not worth the time to skin them).

Yolk, you've given me food for thought. I don't suffer any muskrat issues in the HBG pond, and have just realized that the likely reason is due to predation by the hybrids. Whenever a rat wanders in, it is immediately set upon and devoured by the fish. This might also account for their tremendous growth.

I'm thinking in addition to Optimal, I may begin adding small, fur- bearing animals to the hybs diet. What's the squirrel population like down your way?

Tony,

You DO NOT want to pelletize Squirrels, It is way to messy. Mice on the other hand are doable. And with their high protein content, you might just be on to something.

Please update us on your efforts.

I figure with your hydraulic experience now, you might have a workable plan. It should be interesting to see what you come up with

They'd land on the cage, grab the fish thru the netting on the top and eat them. I never saw dead fish in the cage, and only 1-2 small tears in the netting, but the fish population inside was drastically reduced (and no holes in the sides/walls of the cage). I still had fish eating the floating food, but as time went on, if they could see my profile they wouldn't eat. If I walked away so they couldn't see me, they'd eat asap.

A friend in So. Cal. (Fallbrook, Ca) had his 80# female Pit Bull killed by yotes.

Bocomo,

It's a strange country we find ourselves in. Keeping a working dog outside is cruelty to animals. Wow! Almost as bad as keeping pets. There's no limit to where some folks will go, and they're slowly dragging the whole country with them. I wonder how long it will be before it's not only the guard dogs that have to be kept inside, but also the livestock they guard?

Historically this is exactly where a great post strays into politically motivated discord: Please guys, don't let it go there - I have full confidence we can keep this enjoyable and informative.

A very good point, TJ, as always. But if Trump, Cruz, Kasich, Sanders, or Clinton appear to endorse green sunfish, HBG, or "enhanced bream" in any way, shape, or form, the gloves are coming off again.

"A hybrid bluegill in every pond, and an RTV in every shed"

There's a platform I can get behind......

As long as someone else pays fer it..... Lol

OK TJ, trying to keep this forum within the required guidelines I must agree that even mentioning political candidates names should be admonished. However to simplify things I officially throw my hat in the ring.
There are 13602 registered members and that could provide a pretty good start.
What's a better slogan? A good aeration system in every pond...or Some pot for every chicken.

Oh my gosh. Someone turned you in for having a dog outside in the cold?
You must be just a bit too close to the university of Missouri. I'm a Mizzou grad, so I can make fun of them. Your dog needs a safe zone..

I am not really set on ether side.....but I do whole hardheartedly believe that our kids now a days do need to get out into the bush and show them sign from a deer or bear, racoon, wild turkeys. Kids are so sheltered with all their store bought food that is perfectly prepped. Their internet and video games.... I find it hard to see how they can have an opinion on one way or the other without putting some miles on their boots.

The spring flowers are in perfect bloom right now and the bush is drying out. Get the kids out there every day and learn something hands on. You might see something you will never forget.

Cheers Don.

They sure did.

We haven't moved, but yes, we are too close to Columbia now. The town has grown! I think they're going to annex all the way up to catty-corner from our place. That's the way of the world, it seems.

I really don't mind too much. The fishing is still good at our place, thanks to Pond Boss!

Glad your fishin is good! We are alumni, and my daughter is a J School grad. Love it, and Columbia. Nothing but great memories.
Back on topic, I've not seen that many coyotes at our place. Almost every morning in a deer stand I'll see one, but just one. Lots of droppings around the pond though.
I have more fox up there than anything. There's a grey and red female that had a litter of pups last spring in a big brush pile behind the house. I suspect they might be hurting the quail and rabbit populations a bit, but mostly keep the mice numbers down.
I did find a deer leg on the dam last year. I suspected the local dog pack.
We don't have an over abundance of deer in our area. Too many hunters. Same with turkeys.

Totally agree in that once enough psi is applied, you can durn near extrude anything. But if we're talking feeding "on the hoof", I don't think mice will cut it up here as these are Hoosier HBG sfter all. Mice would probably work fine for lesser lepomids, such as those found in more southerly latitudes like say, the greater Nashville area, but I'm thinking squirrels or perhaps groundhogs would be more applicable for my enhanced bream.

HoosierMax 3000, (a squirrel sized pellet) The right food for Northern HBG, Interesting. Hope you patented it. I just wonder how big of a Texas Hunter you will need to throw them?

I feed by hand, but I do acknowledge the problems that hurling squirrel sized pellets while maintaining the required safety distance from ravenous, super-sized Hoosier HBG, presents. Fortunately, I'm working out a deal as we speak.

I understand that he is making himself available for other opportunities.

Haven't seen this one in person yet but really interesting coloring. This camera is on the backside of my dam where the overflow comes out.

Looks like maybe a yote cross domestic dog to me.

That may be a dog?

That is why I put a blaze orange collar on my 6-month-old grey shepherd.

We have seen when they start to get blacks in their coat and get taller they are mating with dogs. It happens but its not really common. The body size and size of their snout.

RRJW

It definitely is quite dog looking but the picture frames right before had two "Regular" looking Coyotes.
I've also got it on other cameras running with the same.

Some dogs will run and play with coyotes. Such dogs are often used by coyote hunters. This could be a coy-dog, dog, or coyote. Its hard to tell from that angle.

Ive watched a male dog follow a male female pair of yotes last year. You could tell the fm yote was in heat. The m yote would turn and fight and the fm would keep moving on at a walk trot. The dog was a big blk lab mix the neighbors dog tough farm dog. This went on for a good while I watched with binoculars from the road.The males fought hard 3 or 4 times as they followed the fm. They went over a hill and I never saw them again. I do know the dog is still alive

I have never had a coyote challenge any of my adult German Shepherds over the last 30+ years (when caught they did not survive). Some breeds are bred for protection, some for retrieving birds. Not that there are not exceptions. Some labs are tough.