Visited the pond this weekend and found that one of the feeders had been infested with fire ants. So, I was taking it down (it's a hanging feeder) and the Mrs. was liberally spraying Raid Ant and Roach killer at the feeder supports and ground. The good news is that it killed the ants and bad news is she was spraying it toward the pond. Next thing I know there is a sheen starting to spread out in the area she sprayed. This stuff is marked "extremely toxic to fish" on the label. Is it likely this will cause a fishkill in a one acre pond. If so, how long does it take to kill?

Thanks,

How much did she spray ? I have done the same thing (not in the water that I saw)and never had a problem.

DJ, not to be TOO flippant, but you'll have your answer to how toxic it is, within about a week.

Maybe longer if the next generation of fish are snake-like and look eerily similar James Carville...

Besides, your Mrs is way too sweet (and pretty) to get mad at for long!

Rex,
Not mad, just concerned about Carville (and dead fish);)

Eric,
It was an aerosol can and I suspect she sprayed for about 3-4 seconds but the supports are about 1.5 ft. from pond and she was spraying the whole time toward the pond. I'd have to estimate the amount of chemicals in the 2-3 tbs range

DJS, my wife has done the same, and there were no problems. Most insect sprays stick like glue, so the sheen you see may be some kind of aerosol surfactant.

I do know fire ant killers like Bayer's Top Choice are very toxic to fish, but it's a granular.

FIH,
This Raid "and and roach" is labeled "extremely toxic to fish" as well.

Hopefully the overspray will be diluted more than enough to cause any issue. I would think if it were concentrated enough, fish nearest the overspray, especially yoy, would have died, or shown signs of stress almost immediately.

I would suspect no problem at that amount.

Rex, Eric,
thanks for the input. I will be visiting the pond one day this week and I'll report (hopefully) no findings!

Was up at the pond this whole week but out of touch of the computer. Glad to say no fish deaths noticed.

Try dawn soap and water (1tbl spoon +- per gallon of water) works on wasps also

Pat W

DJ, IMO, that small amount won't hurt anything.

Pat, I will try that idea. I had a yellow jacket nest in one of the feeders that was "carefully" sprayed with wasp spray last weekend. Too bad I didn't know about the soapy water trick. I'll try it next time.

Dave,
Thanks, luckily it wasn't an issue.

What is the toxicity of the soap to fish?

I rarely worry about small amounts of anything. One inch of water over one acre is 27,000 gallons, Getting a little stuff in the pond just isn't going to make much difference.

Be sure to wet


them real good and keep hitting them with the spray till they are dead
I've been using this on most bugs for years and it has no bad effect on the environment
Soap is bio- degradable


Pat W

Can you provide any reliable evidence that soap has no bad effect on the environment and is bio-degradable?

http://www.lenntech.com/aquatic/detergents.htm

Go to DIRT DOCTOR . Com

I did say reliable in case you missed that. Use Google Scholar to filter out most of the propaganda. There are lots of web sites that will say whatever you want to hear, but you can do better. No offense meant, but I am sure that you want the truth.

RAH
Howard Garrett (the dirt doctor) is a very well trusted strictly organic guy in Dallas. Google his name and read his books before calling his ideas propaganda. Been listening to his radio show for years and if people would go organic we would have less health issues, Dawn soap is also used to get oil off of ducks to SAVE them from certain death


Pat W

IMO, there are no absolutes in the organic/DIY/off the shelf debate, and proper research should always be done before applications.

We've successfully used homemade hot pepper spray on hostas and coleus to repel insects, and not kill them. But, that same mix will do absolutely nothing to prevent grasshopper damage for a plant like iris. For the iris, an off the shelf pesticide is the only thing that seems to stop the damage.

Vinegar is also touted as a weed killer, and we do use it in our garden during growing season. But, thin bladed weeds or grasses like Bermuda don't seem to even blink at repeated doses of vinegar. With Bermuda, roundup applied by a paintbrush gets the best results.

I'm still trying to figure out how Hydrothol can be an approved aquatic herbicide when it's toxic to fish. There are other granulars available that seem to work as well, but are non-toxic. If I had done the research I should have, I wouldn't still have 30 lbs of Hydrothol sitting on the shelf.

As is said above, I don't think the amount of either soap or pesticides in DJS's scenario would cause damage in a pond.

As an agricultural scientist for the last 31 years, I am well aware of the primary literature on agricultural pest control of all types. Most folks do not know what organic even means (regulated by the USDA). I suggest looking at each situation individually and not restricting yourself to an arbitrary list of organic tools based on the false belief that "natural" is always better. Many "home remedies" are quite damaging to the environment and your health.

Al, it's all in the dosage.

Hydrothol?

For ants, baits are the best way to kill off colonies, although multi-queen fire ant colonies can be a challenge. For feeders, barriers work very well to keep them out. This can be chemical, but sticky gels like Tangle Trap are very effective if redone regularly. Moats on the feeder legs can also work well if maintained.

Correct. Careful calculations of the water volume to be treated and applying the correct amount per that volume is critical. Also, apply from shore out to avoid trapping fish in an area where they can't escape from, such as happens when treatment is started deep and moves towards shore.

Scott,
I found a thread from dec 2013 where you recommended tanglefoot. Is this the stuff:

http://www.amazon.com/Tanglefoot-3000006...ords=tanglefoot

RAH,
is tanglefoot the same as tangletrap that you referred?

That's the stuff.

They both work well, but if you want organic, you need to gather tree sap:)