Cave-in-rock is one variety of switchgrass that I'm looking at. Indian Grass and Big Bluestem are others. I'm looking for something that will grow tall enough to act as a visual screen for cars/trucks driving down a road so they can't look into a field. Should I be looking at something else, and who should I look at for a supplier? Looking for enough to plant roughly 2 acres.
I want something that will not get beat down by snow during the winter too. Sandy soil, but has high water content, even 1" of surface water in wet Springs. By late Summer, it's getting pretty dry. Dry enough that seeds will have a hard time germinating if planted after July.
One you may look into,is Prairie cordgrass. I dont know that it has all the qualities you are looking for, but does prosper in wet soils. I have some growing on my place wild, and only grows in wet drainage areas. Dont think about mowing it when growth is tall though. It will smoke a clutch on a brush hog! It grows to 7 feet tall.
James, how does it do if the soils dry out? It's only wet during the early Spring.
Big bluestem would fit what you want perfectly if ungrazed it grows up about 8 feet and hide it perfectly.
Scott,
Found this on one site re: cordgrass
Prairie Cordgrass
Prairie cordgrass is probably the definitive riparian/lowland grass. Also known as sloughgrass, cordgrass occupies the transition zone between moist soil and dry land. Hundreds of square miles of primary bottomlands were dominated by this grass. On the wet side of this grass community were the true wetland plants, sedges, rushes and other moist soil plants. Cordgrass can survive extended periods of inundation, depending on the season.
Cordgrass seed is extremely hard to find in any quantity. Seed prices are equally high. There has been limited success establishing cordgrass from seed on a large scale basis. The most common way of establishing cordgrass is by plugging or sprigging. Both methods have proven successful, however they are labor intensive and expensive.
Swithcgrass is the way to go especially for its upright habit in tough winters.
Just make sure you have your coat far enough away when you tend a prescribed fire
Scott,
You saw the switchgrass at otter creek last summer and mind is about the same height. DO you want a screen or bedding area. I have the mixture that Grant talked about last summer ready to plant two acres just waiting for the right morning to frost seed it.
Esshup, as far as I can tell, it will handle seasonal dryness, as long as it has periods of wet.It does not spread to the better drained hill location.It does not hold up real well here in winter though. At my place , we have ALOT of wind,( a calm day is not usual until the dog days, and that does not last very long average wind speed 4 or 5 years ago was 13 m.p.h.) and it will lay down.The areas it is growing here, wet in spring and fall, and dries out July and August.
Another thing I have seen, I have Little Bluestem, and Big Bluestem reestablishing by wild means. I have a few clumps of Big Blue that have sprang up by themselves in a wet area at the literal ponds edge, but no standing water. If I can find the charger to my camera, I'll fire ya a couple shots tomorrow.
I really like the look of Big Bluestem. It and Indian Grass are the best looking in my opinion. The downside, over a few years of observation, is that it flattens down under a heavy snow load. I have Switchgrass, Big Bluestem and Indian Grass in my CRP fields. This winter has been unusually snow free and all varieties are standing. Over the past 3 years, however, the only grass still standing in the spring has been switchgrass.
Here is some info from the state of Ohio website on Big Blue:
Big Bluestem
(5 ft. - 7 ft.) is recognized for
its rapid growth, especially in mid
to late summer. It is winter hardy
and suited to almost all soil types.
Big Bluestem is a favored grass for
reclamation on even the poorest of
sites. It provides highly palatable
and nutritious forage for cattle and
excellent wildlife nesting cover.
Many observers feel that songbirds prefer this to all
other warm season grasses. However, Big Bluestem
tends to flatten down under heavy snows, so it has
minimal value as winter cover
For a year round screen, Swithgrass will be hard to beat.
Guys, (CJ, and FCM) How will the switchgrass do with periods of standing water, and wet spells? I'm curious. I dont know alot about it, and may try some in some particular areas.
I have some right on the edge of my pond. Inches away from the water. I would certainly give it a try. Not sure if it can take constant saturated conditions, but it can certainly handle wet periods. Of the warm season grasses, I think it is one of the most tolerant of various conditions.
Concerning standability of the Big Blue.I have seen a few stands around here, and it never gets burned off. It looks like to me that the thatch becomes so thick that is when it starts having standability issues. The newer stands always look great, and the older look poor.Do you have any experience with that scenario?
lassig, I need a screen. There's about a 10 acre field that I'm planting a percentage of it in forage, it is bordered to the N & E by woods, to the W by a road. We are thinning out the River Birch and Autumn Olive that is trying to take over that area by the road, and in doing so it opens up the view to prying eyes. I liked the way that the Switchgrass at Otter Creek blocked the view, do you know what cultivars were in it? I think I have it in my notes, but I'm not 100% sure.
Nate, feel free to chime in anytime!
I'm also getting some of the soybeans that were talked about in the seminar too.
I have not seen a difference in older versus younger stands as it relates to how it stands up to snow load. There are a number of fields near my home that have various varieties. Switchgrass seems to be the winner when it comes to standing through snowy winters. There is a state park 3 miles from me that has hundreds of acres of native grasses fields. Same observations there. Switchgrass still wins out.
Stands should be burned about every 3 years. I like 2 years. Thatch does build up and can get so thick that is restricts movement of wildlife through it. Not so much deer and larger animals, but birds like quail, pheasant and turkey. Stands also need to be burned to kill competing vegitation and woody plants like young trees.
Scott, Get CIR and check out Stock Seed Farms. This is where I order all of mine WSG and wildflowers from. In fact the way this morning is looking I will be outside in an hour frost seeding a 2 acre mixture of CIR switchgrass, Big Blue, and Little Blue. Gives me the chance to try me new Truax seed sling.
Mark:
What is CIR? I have a spreader somewhat like yours, but it's a bag that goes over your shoulder. I got it at an auction a few years ago - no plastic parts, all canvas, wood and metal. It's OLD!!
Cave in Rock Switch grass. The big and little blue will not work in your spreader unless it has agitator and finger pickups. They are breaded seeds and very fluffy and will not work in general spreaders. The switch grass will work fine in it. If you want I can bring the spreader back and you can borrow it. They aren't cheap and not sure when the next time will be when I need it.
By the way I got my frost seeding done. Took 3 hours to do 2 acres. One of the problems was all of the snow geese flying around the neighborhood. I should of been hunting them and not planting seeds.
Mark, thanks but I can get a spreader like that from the USDA here. I talked to the deer biologist this Spring and she told me about it, the USDA office was next door to hers.
Snows? Season still in?? I can bring the FoxPro caller!!!
I'm going to see if I can get dead some grass removed and frost seed here shortly too. (better seed to soil contact)
Yes snows are still in here until the end of March. I have a caller and 20 dozen snow decoys just need to bring the gun. Unfortunately I have jury duty all this week and have to travel the following week. By the time I get back to the farm the snow geese will most likely be gone.
I might try some switchgrass myself. I have about 1/3 acre of troublesome blackberries in my pond area that I could plant with switchgrass. Does this sounds OK? I would spray the area with Roundup then a couple of weeks later disk, broadcast the seeds and lightly rake over with a hand rake.
I would suspect that the brambles will come back, but if you can burn the new grass, this might keep them in check. Blackberries can be a bear to get rid of. We have a bunch in wild areas of our farm and the wildlife love them for cover. Tough on people though. Be very careful if you burn not to let it get away from you.
my experience from working with Quail Unlimited when trying to get a stand of native grasses started is to mow the area mid summer and when you get a good rain and things start growing back up, hit it with Round Up. Give it a few days to die back. Then disc the dead plants under. Give it another month, should be early fall by now. Then apply another dose of Round Up. Wait for it to die and then disc it under. Come spring new growth will come back, again hit it with Round Up. The three treatments of Round Up kill off most weed seeds that were dormant in the soil. After that you plant your native grasses in the spring. Set mower height to 4" and mow at least twice during the summer growing season. The following year you can begin a burn regiment to prevent woody vegetation from moving in...
Good suggestions on cleaning the area the year before planting. The only thing I would change is no need to disk just a couple of doses of roundup the year before (that I did last year) and frost seed the switch grass in Feb/March time frame. No need to disk, that just brings new seeds to the surface to germinate and cause issues.
By frost seeding you broadcast the seed over frozen ground and the freeze thaw cycle works the seed into the soil.
Also remember that warm system grasses (which switch grass is one) require to go though a cycle of freezing and thawing (called stratification) to germinate. Just planting WSG in the spring that haven't been stratified will not germinate well if at all.
That is why I disc, to bring out the seeds and kill them with Round Up. Otherwise natural ground disturbance may bring them up and by that time, your native grasses are established and you can no longer hit the batch with Round Up. In the end, fire is the biggest tool to keep a native grass stand healthy. Without it, it's very hard to keep a native grass stand from getting invaded by weeds and woods. Quail Unlimited in my area is very helpful in assisting you in doing a burn correctly, even renting you the equipment and helping you get the right permits.
Thanks for all the suggestions. My 5 1/2 acres around my pond is pretty much set up for wild life and maybe I should keep the blackberry patch. I'll have to give this some thought.
Esshup
Switchgrass screen is a good idea, CaveInRock is pretty good, I think Kanlow is even better. You can plant strips of both is really good. Deer get real confortable with these switchgrass screens i am sure you will be too
Just brought up this old thread on my search of "big bluestem".
My question is this: Could a deeply rooted native grass(I'm in IA), such as switch grass, cause a problem on a newly constructed dam/dike? I dont want any disturbance of the clay liner. My original plan was to plant a lawn mix to mow on the entire dam but now I'm thinking possibly only doing that on the crown and then planting switch grass on the slope and area immediately below/surrounding the dam. I'm just concerned with the deep roots causing leakage issues, should I be worried?
Great question! I have Indian and Little Bluestem all over my place, and have seen it growing on many pond dams in my time and have never heard of the roots causing any type of fissures - but that certainly doesn't mean it's not a potential problem. I'd say with 99.9% certainty you are fine, and bluestem or switch are both fine choices IMO.
Cottonwoods and Willows are what I combat all year. I keep glyphosate on my ATV at all times and nail all thistles I see and all willows and cottonwoods I see within 50 ft of my pond. Willows and Cottonwoods are invasive and will drink hundreds of gallons of water daily...exactly what I do not need right now, or ever. Certainly ANY tree on a dam should be removed immediately - but I take it a step further. Walking around the perimeter and on both sides of the dam every other month and it's easy to stay on top of them...but you weren't asking about this...I digress.
I think you're fine with the native grasses.
Native grasses as far as I know do not have tap roots so you should be fine.
Thanks for the quick response guys, what an awesome resource this website is.
If I want to mow the crown of the dam to water level can I get a native species that will fit the bill? Can I mow switch grass for a walking path.
I've been reading about grasses for 2 hours now on the site and I am thinking if I want to go native I should keep the usual "lawn" mixes away so they dont over take the natives. Or can I have a distinct border between the two? A bermuda/blue grass/brohm usual lawn mix on top that can be mowed like my lawn and then switch grass on the slope and extending away from the bottom of the pond? Can these grasses live harmoniously?
So much to think about...
I think the natives, if thick enough will shade out the lawn grass. The roots of the switchgrass aren't thick enough to leave a large path for water to follow if they die and decay like tree roots.
Switchgrass should be burned every other year (I'd burn it at year 1 to remove many weeds/small trees that grew from having the soil bare and disturbed). Switchgrass shouldn't be mowed when green - it's not mowed in it's native habitat, and I don't know how well it would survive.
I think that if you have a dense stand of native switchgrass, you could have lawn grass right next to it, but that's just my gut feeling. I've seen stands of switchgrass with grass paths mowed thru it, but the path didn't look like a lush lawn, more like pasture grass.
Thanks esshup, I think its worth a try anyway. I'll drill winter rye now and then seed the switch grass this winter, along with a few native wild flowers. I'll keep the forum updated on progress.
Next project after seeding is well drilling and dock building. Been referencing brettski's dock building saga for the past few days.
By winter rye are you talking rye grain or rye grass? I assuming annual rye grass. Switch grass and wild flowers are not a good mix, the switch will shade them out and over take them. Instead of switchgrass, consider shorter natives like little blue, side oats, etc. I have the stock seeds short native mix on the east side of the pond (opposite of the dam) and it looks great. With this I mixed in the stock seeds wildflower mix. It is 3 years old and is looking great. Nice and green right now even though we haven't had 10" of rain all year.