Ok here are the good things..

My spring flows at about 20 gal a min year round much faster most times of the year. I will figure on 10 Gal tho.The water is clear and cold. 52F all year.
I have about 3 feet of fall. So I should be able to setup a waterfall for aeration.

The bad...
The water is 52. Really too cold for most trout to prosper.
The water grows filamentous algae.
Funds are limited and most work will be done by me in manual fashion.

My plan.
I will install a pipe in the spring. Using one foot of the fall. I will drop this about 1' into the raceway tank. The tank will be 15' long x 4' wide x 3' deep. I will use stone (I have this by the ton)for the structure with a liner to make it water tight. I plan on putting a screen over the top to prevent the algae and keep out birds. I also plan on fencing it to keep out the furry woodland creatures that would like a fish dinner.

Questions..
How many pounds of fish should I expect to produce?
Should I go with brook trout? the water is COLD!
Any thing else you can suggest about my plan?


I will be posting photos of the spring in a bit. So you can see what it is now.

Ok here are a few pictures..
Source of spring.



I installed this pipe just to be able to check the flow rate. It doesn't capture all the water but gets enough to check the flow.





Area where the raceway will be.





Should I leave this area in or get a greater drop into the raceway? It loses a bit of potential elevation about 2 feet, but the water travels over rocks and I'm sure it's getting aerated... It has that babbling brook sound. The issue is the vegetation near the spring has a tendency to grow over it and choke out the flow spreading it out and making it difficult to capture the flow. So keeping it clear will be an on going task.

Stanb999, looks like a great project, hopefully you won't get alot of silt during heavy rain.
Screening and fencing will help to keep the critters out and maybe some plywood over half to give some shade, also keep a thermometer in it to monitor summer temps.

As far as trout, brooks and rainbows would be a good start cause you really can't be sure of the summer temps. yet.
Untill you see how they fare I would keep the number low, maybe 15 or 20 total in the 10" range.

Are you going to use a feeder or do it by hand?, you could also throw in some minnows if you have access to them.

Good Luck and keep us updated.

I hope to use a feeder. Their are battery powered ones right?

The spring doesn't really flow a great deal more or less with rains. It's not static.... Just a bit faster if it's a rainy month or a bit slower if it's a dry month. Where I would get the water is within 15' of it's start so silt shouldn't be an issue.

I tested the temp of my pond just down hill from the spring at mid summer the water got to a balmy 62 right at the surface 6" down it was 55. The pond is full sun, max depth of around 2' with most of it being 18" 80x60..(It's silted in real bad. and full of organics.) If I had a small fortune I could fix it.. The temps are a concern. But I believe in regards to the reverse. I know the summer temps are cold... Ever wade in a creek to your ankles and have it cool your whole body, the spring is 2100 ft in elevation.. Last night we had snow and today we have a little bit of an ice storm.

My concern is the 50 degree water may be too cold for good growth of rainbows. That's why I'm leaning towards the brookies. It may be too cold for them on average to grow good as well. I can't seem to find much info on that. It's all based on it being to warm.


P.S. before you say it. The pond won't work. The pond was designed for irrigation/livestock watering. It has the spring and field run off. The water level can rise and fall a foot+ in a few days. The numbers I gave you above is it's static level after no big rain for a few weeks. I get a good rain.. like 1-2 inches in a day. It becomes a torrent. The water leaving the spillway will be 6" deep and 8' wide and rushing.. After few days it falls back to it's regular level. I just don't see it as manageable.

I was thinking of using those agriculture row covers for shade.. They make them for field planting shade loving plants like Ginseng. They block a % of the sun light.

I don't think you'll have an issue with the water being too cold... Keep it simple the first year and see how things progress the first year. Try 10 brookies and 10 rainbows. See how each does... They do make battery powered fish feeders. What part of PA are you in? We have land in Bedford County.

Northern Wayne County, 6 miles from the NY border.

We are the farthest north and eastern county..

Typically raceways produce about 50 lbs. of trout per gpm but they use much higher flows than 20 gpm. I see a lot more flow there than you are extracting. If it was me I'd try a little harder to get more flow -- especially to counteract the times when your flow will decrease.

Water temp is typical at your latitude. Contrary to popular believe, temps don't vary from spring to spring or well to well, but are more associated with latitude.

Your water will warm a little with use; I wouldn't worry about it being too cold for any species of trout.

If it was me I'd go with an economical way to build raceways. Probably raised wooden one(s) with cement blocks to elevate them and an EPDM liner(s),which can be purchased from a building supply store in six foot widths that are used for under layment for roofing. Contrary to what some of the aquaculture catalogs will tell you, they are safe for fish and should say so on the liner itself. I bought some a while back at Menards and it said in distinct white letters, "Safe for Aquatic use" or something to that effect.

Another option are circular tanks that make better use of the water resource and can be made to be self cleaning with a standpipe inside another one. You can build them yourself if you're handy or pick up some stock tanks.

The concerns I would have are low flow and high flow events. Low flow could leave you with dead fish and a flood event could wash away your hard work. And as mentioned silt could be an issue. I would engineer some kind of filter if need be and a bypass in case of a flood event.

If you P.M. me your name and mailing address I can send you a discount coupon you can mail in for a book that covers what you are contemplating. It's called Small Scale Aquaculture by Steven VanGorder (the author lives in PA) and with the coupon you can get the book for $16.00. I don't make any money off it this, just want to make an outstanding book available that was written by a friend. He has a chapter devoted to flow through systems.

I produce trout in a 100,000 gallon earthen pond flowing 45 gph of well water into it 8 months of the year. It produced much lower production rates than a raceway at only 500 lbs. upon final harvest.

Shade cloth is good but you might consider plastic mesh in a PVC frame underneath it to keep out mink, otters, and Great Blue Herons. You could easily fasten the PVC frame on top of the raceway so you can take it on and off.

Thanks...

You just made this actually cheap and easy!

I was thinking wood but had second thoughts. LOL
What do you think if I used rough sawn 2" planks for the floor. with a heavy foundation of 4x4's on the blocks. For the sides I could use 1" planks with supports every 2 feet. Cover it with the membrane.. Do you think it will work?

I was thinking of putting it off to the side of the main spring flow so I wouldn't have to worry about a "flood" event. I would put the pipe into the spring it's self so if the pipe is full it's all she gets. I was thinking a 3" pipe. The one in the picture is 6" drain tile. I don't want that kind of flow into it.

I figured the "flow" at half of what it is. The slowest flows are in winter when the ground is frozen. Summer is pretty steady at the 20GPM.. I was thinking 10 GPM for the safe side. With a tank the size I describe would 100 trout be out of the question? I know it has to do with the flow.. But they need some room right?

Great Blue heron's....

I went and put some perch in my pond during the warm spell last week. I just went up the state pond and caught them with barb less circles... Any way. I put in thirty. The next morning I go down and here in the pond, A heron. The JERK!

P.S. You would love these perch... Averaged 10" had a few of the girls more than 13". So long they didn't look right in a five gallon pail.

Sounds like a plan. You may not have to engineer it as sturdy as you think.



Good idea.



I would go much larger than 3 inch, probably the 6 inch. You could always put in a homemade designed gate value to divert any excess flow. My 4 inch pipe with 45 gpm is full. Gravity flow water takes up more space than pressure flow. I would always go bigger than needed to play it safe.



Sure looks like a lot more than 20 or 40 gpm. Are you sure?I would try and capture as much flow as possible. More flow is always better than not enough.

Yeah, I was talking it over with my father inlaw. He seems to think 1/2 plywood would work. I just worry about plywood and the water. 1 inch plank will be plenty. It's really just the base that needs sturdy I guess.





I have more of the 6" so I will use that as suggested.



The only way I have to check is a five gallon pail. It fills it in 12 seconds... So 5 x 4 = 20.

I was also thinking of putting in a small pump to move water from the pond back up to the tank for a bit of extra flow if needed. Something like a bilge pump.. 1500 an hour would be a nice addition. The reason I can't do a big pump is it's 800ft from the house..

Your sides are important too. You don't want a blow out.



No, it's 25 gpm. 5 gal. to 12 seconds = x to 60 seconds. x = 25 gpm.

I wasn't talking about what's in your pipe though. I was referring to the entire flow I'm looking in your picture. Look's like at least 100 gpm to me.



I suppose you could do that if you had an emergency but I'd stick to gravity if you can and exploit as much via gravity as you can. The book I referred to that's in it's second edition, that's coming out soon, shows you how. It could save you some money and time at $16.00. I'd be happy to send you the coupon. You can just throw it away if you change your mind. It goes to the author, not me.

Cecil, so glad you found this post... You are the man to answer this type of stuff!

Cecil, the thing with the pump is it will give piece of mind.

And the father in laws house is closer. So the price of power is very reasonable.

I will be ordering planks and beams on Monday. Should have this going in a few weeks. Depends on the schedule at the mill.

To review for structure.

For floor
blocks for a base. 4 on each side. 8 total.
on that 2x6 stringers.
On that 4x4 "joists" every foot.
On that 1" plank

For sides.
2x4 every foot vertical.
2x4 wailer at base and 2' up.
Use all tread to tie sides together at top and under base.
Planks for wall.

Don't forget the HDPE liner material (same as the rubberized roofing material that is made for flat roofs). Oops, make that EDPM. Thanks JKB!

Brace it well, even running a few ties over the top of the raceway to hold the "walls" together. Each cubic foot of water weighs 62#.

You're being modest. You know a lot about the subject too.

I'll put you and AP in leagues way above me when it comes to trout knowledge. I am just glad the poster had you two chime in.

HDPE is High Density Polyethylene.

I think esshup means EPDM.

Kinda easy to get all these acronyms mixed up.

Sounds like a plan Stan!

If it were my shot at this, I would shoot for Coho

CJ don't put me in your or Cecil's league, I'm more of a trial and error learner , it's great to see people experiment with fish raising methods that are out of the norm.

, or Cecil's favorite TIGER'S.
Kokanee would be interesting too.

It is not out of the norm. Raceway systems are quite antique. It is out of the norm for pond people, to an extent.

Sure is fun tho!

Go get em Stan!

AP> Along with Arctic Charr!

Illegal in MI tho

LOL, I thought of them as well.... But the trout will be easier to get. From what I gather tho Char are more tolerant of less quality water. But they need it cold cold cold...

You might be surprised!

Brookies will be your most fussiest on water quality, all parameters included.

Arctic Charr are second on my list after Coho for cold water app's.

I just did not google that either

How's that raceway coming?

Well, after your suggestion I went back and did the pipe better. I have it sealed to just a trickle getting by. Seems the flow is between 20 and 30 gallons a min. A bit of rain picks it up almost right away.. Then it slowly drops off. I will still figure the tank by 10 GPM so if it falls in a bad drought I'm still good.

I bought the book, it came, I read it. I will be able to make a tank and have it work real well for raising trout.

Things decided...
Tank size 1200-1500 gallon. At this size the water changes every few hours even at low flow.

Tank will be built in a small shed. This will make winter easier to deal with. It will keep the sun off the water (algae). It will also make it easier to keep out predators.

Current dilemma's

Tank construction.. Concrete block or Wood need the liner. The liner is not cheap. When you add the two costs it ends up very expensive.

Plywood with Epoxy and fibreglass. No liner needed. should be ok in a shed. Difficult to work with tho.

Buy a large stock tank. Not cheap, needs fittings and such, not the right size. They are wide but very shallow.

I'm currently thinking the plywood and epoxy will be the best method. But I'm open to ideas.

If none of the vendors on here have a liner that fits your budget, check on e-bay. There are liner remnants on there pretty reasonably priced. I bought one a few years ago to make an ornamental "stream". Still gotta get a roundtuit.....

How about this for the inside of a plywood raceway? It's long enough for a 16 foot raceway that is 2 feet deep up to 5 feet across. $100.00 would do it. On sale until the 15th.

http://www.menards.com/main/building-mat...g/p-1382672.htm

If you want to go the route of a circular stock tank you many be able to find one really cheap on Craig's List. Sometimes people just want to get rid of them. Plastic would be better but if you have to paint something with an epoxy AES's Sweetwater primer and paint would be the way to go. You could also use it in lieu of a liner.

I use a stock tank that I have elevated on concrete blocks for one of my RAS tanks.



No offense to some of the aquaculture suppliers but their mark ups are shameful, and when they tell you the above liner is not safe for fish it's an outright misrepresentation. The ones I bought from Menards have printed in white lettering: "Safe for aquatic use."

To the nearest store.. Per google.

406 mi (about 6 hours 43 mins)

I changed back to my original plans. The spring is only 40 ft or so long with a vertical drop of about 24". In order to get the tank installed I'd have had to dig anyway. So the digging wasn't "extra". Next due to the fact that the soil is sand with a bit of silt 5% and clay 8%(per jar test) the bottom should be easy to maintain as a pebbly brook like setting.

I built a small earth dam about a foot tall and dug down about 18" For a max depth of 30" or so. The deep area is near the centre with a 4" drain pipe. This area is about 5' or so in diameter. The next step up averages 20" in depth. This area is about 8' in diameter. Lastly the whole thing is about 9'X12' with a min depth of about 14".

Drains and "dredging".
The 4" drain seems to keep up fine. It drains the spring from full pool in about 5 mins. It takes the spring about an hour to fill the pool. The 4" pipe will suck the water from the top of the water and set it's depth. (Should I use a siphon instead and take from the bottom?) I will be putting in a "emergency" spillway with the 6" pipe. But never expect it to be used.
Dredging..

I will be attaching a "T" fitting. It will go from the 4" to 1 1/4" on this I will attach a ball valve and a section of flexible sump hose. I will use this to "vacuum" the pool bottom periodically.

Next steps...

I will be adding soil to the dam to make it more substantial (Now it's just a big mud pie, lol) and adding boards to make a "deck" frame. I plan on putting the boards in place first. Attaching hardware cloth to it. Then burying the wire in soil. This is to keep out digging critters. Do you think it will be OK to leave the water go through the wire? I know what they say about galvanised . But it's a tiny amount with lots of water.


On to the deck frame I will build a deck and small pole building. In the deck I plan on leaving a 4'x8' hole. The sides and roof of the pole building will be tin. I was thinking I should also make one or two of the roof panels plastic so light shines in some... Do you think they need more?


P.S. My friend the Blue Heron was at the pond today again. That JERK!

A bit of a transformation...

Here is the exact shot of what was.



Now...





A few more.






Yes I've been busy the last two days.


P.S. this was done with a shovel and a back.

My patented spring water aerator... It's made of PA Blue stone. The actual value of the stones from what I understand is 12 dollars a piece. This uses 5... So for 60 dollars... You get.




P.S. Want some? I'll trade 4 pallets of stone per hour with a track loader... You stack!

Stan your really going to town on this project, you mentioned putting hardware cloth inside, are you still going to put a liner in it?

No, it holds water well. I found hard pan just below the level of the muck, stones and grass from the creek. It's a strange mix of clay/silt/sand and small stones. I would put it close to 2A modified. But the fines are much smaller. It ends up kinda putty like after it's moved. Digging in to it tho shows how it's really more like concrete. So it should be a "hard" bottom.

The hardware cloth will be the next step. I plan to attach it to the 2X6 all the way around. Then burying it in the soil several inches. The purpose is to keep out critters that would "dig" a trout meal. The stone will go about half way up the board and cover the whole mess.

The wife is very pleased with the stone wall look over that of a tank. We like to keep a rustic look... Tho some times some would say it's just rusty. LOL

It looks good and I hope it works well, question I have is will the dirt walls add sediment that will cloud the water?

Good luck and keep posting photo's.

The soil doesn't really could up much. Even if I'm in their digging for instance and the water looks like milk. In an hour it will totally clear. The particles aren't clay, it's silt. Kinda naturally clear.

for those in the mid-west or south with clay...
Imagine stirring and digging in the "muck" of your pond. In 2 hours it's as clear as well water. No haze what so ever. 2 feet looks like 6 inches. Course my dam's are never like a "bucket".

Stan,

Are you sure it's not more sand then you realize? Sand settles very quickly but looks like silt when it's wet.

Looks good Stan. I assume this is how you are sequestering the spring and the race way will be just down from it?

Have you picked anything up from the book Small Scale Aquaculture?

No I think you misunderstand. This will be the"raceway" type tank. In the book the fellow with the nice stone walls in NEPA... he is down hill from me.... like 1500 ft, lol. In fact most of the selections in the book were they mention tanks are from my area, or just over the border in NY. Like less than 10 miles. I like the guy with the 3' deep 8 foot tank that grows a few hundred pounds a year in it. More than what I plan or need. My "tank" is that size with a 10X12 14" depth area added.

I haven't yet added the drain pipe extensions. In fact in the picture the pool is full with just a bit of weeds and a rock stuck in the out flow of the drain. I was checking to see if the frame was level (I figured you would want to watch the progress. So I took a couple pictures.) Just by eye it was less than a 1/2" off over all. Not too bad. I need to shim a bit. It's back down to 14" from the 30" it was in the picture. I want the walls built and full of soil prior to leaving it full.

I'm kinda thinking it will be more like a tank type system in that the water circulates then will drain from the center. It's just a sand/soil "tank". Not really a "raceway". I think it's the best of both worlds really. You get the circulation of a tank... With greater depth and size of a raceway. You should see the water swirl into the drain... It really gets moving.


P.S. I did the jar test on the soil. It is what it is. Really just (silty-sand loam) per all the charts.

Looking good Stan!

You sure are making me look really lazy
I would not have the ambition to dig it with a shovel.

Those sand slit loam charts also should have percentages if used correctly. Used some of them in a few of my classes.

I do question how self cleaning your square raceway will be even with a center drain due to it not being round but square. You will have some "dead zones" and solids will collect there. Even rectangular raceways need to be scraped from time to time.

The difference in your system vs. the one in Van Gorder's book is yours is much smaller. The one in the book and my 1/10th acre pond have enough bottom area to act as a biofilter and sediment collector with a relatively low density of fish.

I'm not saying what you have won't work but you would have been better off with a narrow raceway or circular tank for the quicker removal of ammonia, settleable and suspended solids. Your design will stifle the pounds per gallon of fish you can raise.

On the other hand if you just want to raise a few fish and don't have any desire down the road to add more you may be fine.

Yeah, I figure it will be harder to clean. In that I really will need to treat it like a tank. I will add fish. Grow them out. Harvest in one batch.... Rinse and repeat.

I don't figure it will hold many at all long term. More likely a growing season.



If this works out well and I like actually raising them. I may just get a pump, dig a well and go commercial. With a closed system I could produce tons a year with this clean mountain water.

If you go that route you might be able to find a significant artesian well by just drilling with no pumping needed. That's the ulimiate as there are no pumping costs and you flow everything via gravity. Or worst case scenario find one that does not produce the water significantly artesian but shallow pumping could increase it substantially.

Getting a bit ahead of yourself now!

If you could raise large amounts of SMB that's where the money would be, of course dealing with the government really puts a crimp on small businesses.
I was interested in getting some SMB for my pond but an upstate hatchery here wants a dollar an inch for 4" smallies, that would be expensive fish food if you had any predators.
Looks like it's back to hook and line stocking, smallmouth season opens the middle of June.

The issue here isn't so much water availability. A few hundred gallons a min leaves my actual pond. It's the start of a stream. The real issue is the pond is at the lowest level of the property... Of course the water is at the bottom. LOL

Then the land rises 10' or so feet to a few; like 2-3 acre flat'ish area. I would need to pump the thing more than 15' but less than 20' vertical. Not a big deal but for a few hundred gallons a min. It will take some horse power anyway.

I even thought of an area up by the road to put in a fish and pay pond.. Tourists!


Farming go big or keep it a hobby.

Just Ideas.. Got to do something while watching a pond fill and keeping the beer from getting warm.

Speak for yourself! We're still waiting for you to put some fish in a tank!

You're ahead of JKB!

I hear ya! You be addicted at this point

One wallet draining step at a time!



I lied and added a second PLC.

I just need a couple metal din rail clips to hold the solid state relays in place/separated. Fortunately I bought the SSR's capable of 480 volts. Will run them on 240 volts with 1000 watt heaters. The operating temperature curves fall in a happy zone

I have the other three relays (plug into the black things in the middle) up in Fremont.

I need to tighten up the grey wire duct (it is precision cut, so the pic's do not do it justice because it is floating around) , and this is ready to wire!

One more smaller sub panel going on the door that needs to get built. Then prep the enclosure and mount the HMI, Meters and peripheral devices.

After that, I'll start on test tanks.

Just a hobby

I hear ya. Just teasing you!

It's actually more fun the way we are doing it (small scale) No big pressure or some bean counter from the bank breathing down our necks.

Bell Aquaculture down here had now invested 60 million according to a source. Holy Moly!

Update.

I have installed the piping. It seems to work well. It is an 1 1/2" pipe set at a level about 1/2" below the 4" pipe. It is full and flowing well. The 4" flows just a bit. Enough to keep the top clean. So most of the flow is from the bottom. Tho I have to put a screen or something on the bottom when I get the trout. They may just fit up it. Or at least get stuck. Any suggestions on design or what to use. I'd like to make sure the holes are big enough to keep sucking junk off the bottom.




I put a few pan fish in. I went up the lake and caught them yesterday afternoon. Mostly they are Yellow Perch and Pumpkin Seed. I put them in so they could stir the bottom a bit and wash out the last of the silt from construction. They are doing a fine job.. Over night they cleared a 3' circle. I plan on having them in there just a few weeks so I plan to just give them some worms. How many and will this work? The fish are 7" average and about 20 in total. The perch are bigger tho. Like 10".



Well I finally took the water temp. A few surprises.
The spring is colder than I thought. It also warms more than I expected on top of the pool. It was a bright sunny "hot" day yesterday. No cloud cover at all. So solar thermal gain was pretty high.


Temp at "aeration" pipe. 48F
Temp at top of pool. 53F
Discharge pipe water temp. 51F


P.S. I took the temp this morning.. Overcast a bit. It's 48F all around. The sun really heats the water fast. Interesting.

Hey Stan, your sure not wasting any time getting things done.

You could reduce suction at the opening of your 1&1/2" pipe by putting a T on it and also drill lots of holes into the T, then cover it in screening, this reduces the intake suction at any specific point and allows the screen to stay cleaner, also don't put the screen tight to the inlets on the T, I have done this to my 2" siphon inlets that supply water to my pond.

As long as you have some shade for the Trout that should keep the stress down on them.

What do you think of a manifold of sorts... Like 6-8 1/2" holes over the length of the deepest portion.

I plan on putting a deck over the pond with a 4x8 opening. Then building a small pole building over the whole platform. This will give them some hiding spaces. Protect them from birds and other critters. Also give a nice spot to feed them even in winter.

I just wanted to see how well fish do in it before the whole build out... It would be a PITA to find out something minor is wrong after a building is built.

What about photoperiod?
Sounds like you are encasing them in a tomb of sorts.
Fish need sunlight like you do.

I seriously doubt the 60 million story. They are not that big to have that much invested. Maybe a typo on your sources side.

Kinda like a fish story

So you think it will be too dark? I was under the impression they were farmed in barns and out buildings?

The walls of the small pole building will be wire with a solid roof only. Do you all think this will be fine or should I make the "deck" only on one side? Like 3' x 10' rather than a total walk around.

I wouldn't worry about photoperiod unless you want to become an egg producer. Dark is good.

They will grow and utilize feed much better if exposed to light.
Continuous dark "is not" good for growth!

Many studies on this subject, and I have yet to find one that says continuous dark is good.

In my control system. I have analog inputs and outputs. The 0-10V inputs will have photo sensors that measure light intensity. The 0-10V outputs will control 6500K fluorescent lights with analog ballasts. This will allow me to program and control all aspects of light conditions.

I will also have photo sensors measuring and recording outdoor light conditions every 60 seconds 24/7. I can pick any day of the year and play it back inside the building, should I choose to. (We actually do this in customers office environments) Make the shortest day of the year outside into the longest day of the year inside. This is way beyond fish rearing, but it is all about productivity. You get the idea.

Obviously, no artificial lighting system can effectively duplicate the intensity of the sun.

Cecil should know that fish get spooked when you just flip on a light switch. An analog ballast is basically a dimmer ballast. Even the best ones have a "click to on" starting point using a dimmer switch. Because these usually use a dimmer switch, there has to be a point above 0V in the 0-10V output to make them work. My boss has created some circuitry in front of the ballasts (Phillips make the best ones) that eliminates this "click to on" point utilizing analog outputs from a PLC or other true analog device, so they truly go from 0-10V.

People who raise fish in buildings (people who want to increase profits) utilize light (photoperiod) manipulation as part of their overall protocol. It is not just for broodstock or hatchery phase, but overall optimization of final product output, with controlled inputs.

Hope I did not bore you

I know what the books say but in practice most of the RAS facilities that are still around, I have toured, keep it dark, so dark in fact, your eyes have to adjust to the darkness.

I'm aware what they say about day length being important for growth but I think it's minor compared to optimum oxygen, low NH4 and NH3, optimum temps, PH, and feed levels.

I just don't buy into it as being that big of a deal. I know if I had a choice I would take low light levels over the opposite any day.

That said, if you've ever tried to shut out light completely in a building it's a very difficult thing to do. Light gets into a facility very easily.

Missed the point!

It is all about control, and maintaining it, based on individual assessed and defined protocol.

Not something Stan would be interested in.

I would bet that the facilities you toured are wrong! Seriously wrong!

They have to keep cost's down by not running lights, or having effective control systems.

This is getting way out of the realm.

No biggie tho! People do, based on finances, manipulate outcome to suit their situation, and justify as fact to others.

It is called life!

Like I said, no biggie

JKB,

We'll just have to agree to disagree but I can tell you that I've toured enough facilities to know what the academics say you should do is not always practical. And even the academics disagree with each other what is optimum.

I still say lighting is insignificant if all the other parameters are in place, and in fact less light is better. Reduced stress, better for the bacteria, no algae issues, etc. etc. You can also subdue the spawning urge with reduced lighting which is a waste of energy if you just want to grow out the fish.

Interesting discussion gentlemen, but Stan said his building would have a solid roof with wire fencing for the walls.

As I said Cecil, No big deal!

I am sure we will have to agree to disagree in the future also

I have a motto:
"Here's to you, and here's to me! If we ever disagree, %$@*& you, and here's to me!"

With just a few fish in a hobby setup. I doubt there would be a significant impact. First off, you would never notice the difference, because you would not have anything to compare it to. Therefore a mute point!

That said, time to do some wiring and programming!


BTW: The photoperiod and studies I am referring to are in reference to raising Trout. Not other species.

Understood AP, but look before the fact!

I like Stan's overall approach.