I have someone that wants to get the bluegills in his pond on feed that have never seen a pellet before. That is they were never planted from a farm and were naturally reproduced in the pond.

Anybody have success doing this?

What would you suggest?

I was thinking of starting out with the Gamefish chow that has a mix of sizes and feeding at the time in the same place until he gets a response?

I know one thing he has going for him is bluegills are supposed to be the easiest species to get on feed, and that has been my experience with the smaller ones.

Cecil - you requesting forum advice on feed training fish is a futile exercise - you've been there done that more than most of us put together!

Bruce feed trained a bunch of my BG and YP in a tank this winter, and he started with blood worms and graduated to softened pellets, then to straight floating feed. I think this was due primarily to the more sensitive YP, the BG may have started hitting pellets immediately. I think hydrated sink pellets might be a good place to start, however, to try and acclimate as many as possible. But, you already knew this, so I digress.

TJ,

My feed training has always been with small fish crowded in tanks and cages. I'm talking about bluegill of all sizes in a pond.

What kind of response will he get in a pond?

BG are easy to feed train. I would pound a metal fence post into the ground and bang on a couple of times every time you feed. (Ring the dinner bell) Feed at the same place and time and the BG will pick it up very quickly.

I wonder if you could start out teaching them to gather in one spot at night and pick bugs off the surface by using some sort of night time light/bug attraction device. Then add more 'surface food' at night and then when they know where to go for food add day time food there?

Only one of our ponds contains bluegills that were fed at a hatchery, the others are "wild" populations, and they take feed readily. When I started, I hydrated the feed and things went smoother.

Thank you Gentlemen. That is what I thought. I can show him how to hydrate in a gallon zip lock bag. Any suggestions on size? Aquamax 500 or start out with Gamefish chow so there is a variation in size?

thought you were getting wild with blue gills...LOL

Cecil, I just fed GFC at the lake house from a feeder. 1/2 hr after sunrise and 1 hr before sunset. They learned without hydrating the feed. Had common carp and golden shiners also feeding. It took about 3 weeks before I saw any BG eating from the surface.

Water temps were in the low 70's when I started.

I put a feeder out on my pond last year and the bluegills stared feeding right away. I used Aquamax 500.

For those that said the bluegills started feeding right away, how many of you had bluegill that were NOT from hatchery?

I put some pond hatched bluegills in a cage years ago. Only got about 20 percent to feed on pellets. But they were dry pellets. No doubt I could have got them going better on hydrated pellets.

I am going to give an opposite experience. Before renovating the pond, I had BG that would not come to the feed. They had never seen feed, ever. I fed the same time, same place, every day. Not like the fish I got from the hatchery after renovation, that were looking for it.

If it was me doing it again, If I didn't see the wild ones taking to feed in a week or two, I'd throw in a half dozen feed trained ones to give the oldies an idea of what to do.

I'm not sure what constitutes "feeding right away"? The bluegills in our established ponds didn't begin tearing into the feed until probably 3 weeks after beginning the program. There were interested parties almost immediately, but they would suck in a pellet and spit it back out....which led to hydrating the feed.

Now those same bluegills follow me around the bank, waiting, at suppertime.

I'm not sure how well GF Chow will hydrate. Many of the 32% protein pellets become mushy when water is added. If you use less water to dampen the pellets it may work okay. I think hydrating the feed results in faster pellet trained fish.

I drive a Polaris UTV around the pond. That is the signal for the BG to start following me around. See small wakes in the water like a flotilla of small submarines heading towards the sound/vibration.

Rice breakfast cereal will get the fish interested. Rice Crispies are fair, but the real deal is Fruity Pebbles (generic brand in the great big family bag works fine). The various colors really get their attention. The small size and the fact that they sog up pretty quickly, the small BG will take right to them if they are at all hungry. I've tried Cheerios, and would think they would be great. But my fish at least were not oat fans. The Rice cereal they really went after.

Feed some of the Fruity Pebbles, then add in some fish feed as they get to feeding aggressively. The bigger fish will get the idea when they see the small ones getting to eat and they are not. Competition does wonders getting them to hit things they otherwise would not.

Awesome tip Snrub. I will definitely give that a try this spring at my place. I fed my CC grain based 32% pellets for 6 weeks or so last fall and my BG never did show any interest. I stocked pellet trained PS last fall but it was too late in the season to feed pellets. I did buy some small 3.5mm 45% pellets which I will feed this spring. Hopefully, the BG will get the idea when the PS feed.

Snrub - creative way to get fish eating fish food. Good thinking. Hopefully others will try it and report their results.

I'm still a fan of old school Post Cocoa and Fruity Pebbles, so this is right in my wheelhouse. The generic ones taste good too, and come in huge bags, which is another benefit. I sneak a bowl around midnight when everyone is asleep once or twice a month - kids cereal is a secret shame I guess. Can't wait to try this on BG this Spring, good post.

I could not understand why the BG did not like Cheerios.

I guess it must be they have not heard the benefits of oats lowering bad cholesterol. That could possibly be an educational problem, or lack thereof.

Don't understand how that could be though, because I have seem the fish actively schooling. I guess schooling attendance does not automatically equate to learning.

There's no "Snap, Crackle, Pop" with Cheerios and they aren't shaped like insect larvae?

My bluegill were not from a hatchery. I did set the feeder up in a place where I could always catch some bluegills. On my new pond I stocked FHM and CNBG 1-2" and it took a couple months to get them to feeding good.

Maybe one type of cereal has more insect larvae in it and the fish know it. All cereal has insects. In fact there is a maximum standard allowed by the government.

Cecil

Yum yum! But true



Pat

Fish choosing foods are probably very similar to many kids - go for the sweeter and more colorful types.

Bill, have there been any studies on water clarity and feed training with BG?

""...have there been any studies on water clarity and feed training with BG?""
Not to my knowledge. It makes sense that if the fish can see a food item from a further distance in the water they will more likely notice its presence, investigate it, and attempt to eat it.

That would be a very good science fair project for a high school student or term paper for a college biology student. Or it would be a good fish project for a PBoss forum member and report the results here or in Pond Boss magazine.

The wild BG at my dad's old pond picked up eating pellets pretty quick, I suspect that secchi readings of 96" to 108" helped a lot.

My BG did too.

RAH - what was your average water clarity when your BG learned to eat pellets. Water clarity could be an important factor in pellet training pond fish.

For what it's worth, my water clarity was very dark (and mostly still is) when I tried to get them pellet trained. Sorry bill, no secchi reading, I'm not that high tech yet. I would guess 2-3"???

I will say that when I did try pellets on those old Bg, that it was pre pondboss and I didn't know about hydrating. Just tried it as the hatchery told me to. Tried for two months and nothing happened. Throw a worm or grasshopper in there, and they sure came for that.

f-n-c - I think if your BG will take a sinking worm then you can easily get some of them on pellets. Chop the worm into 1/2" pieces. Moisten some Aquamax until it has the consistency of damp clay and roll it into 1/2" sizes similar to the worm pieces. Offer them with the worm pieces. They will eat them. If you want a small amount of AM to try I will send you some free. Just PM me your shipping address when the water gets around 55F and you see your BG eating worms.

Hey Bill, thanks for the offer and sorry for the confusion. This was referring to my BG that were in the pond before renovation. None of those BG had seen feed for 50 years, if ever. It was also before PB, so I didn't know better ways to try. My BG now easily take to feed, as they all came from the fish guys who fed.

I do not remember what the water clarity was, but it was somewhat clear because I could see them. I just started throwing in feed a little at a time until they got the idea. They started very slow, and increased feeding over time. I just feed for entertainment. A large snapping turtle got trained too.

I trained a snapper once too!

My two snapping turtles are so tame after 12 years I can reach down and pick them up by the tail. However I don't harass them. They clean up all my dead & dying perch.

My buddy from Colorado was fishing with me one night on the river here and hooked a big snapper. As he was reeling it in with his pole bent double he told me he had a snag. He gets it up near the bank and his eyes turn the size of dinner plates. I reached down and grabbed the tail and could not close my hand completely around it but managed to get it up on the bank. My buddy turned to me and asked what to do now. I just told him, lose your hook or lose your hand, your call. He cut the line.

I will say that when feeding the BG one day, I saw the snapper sitting on the bottom snapping at passing BG and thought how silly he was. Next thing I know he was heading off with a pretty nice BG in his mouth. I only saw this once though.

I killed one recently with the shotgun. I hate killing things but when my fish sell for up to $120.00 each I can't take a chance at losing income.

http://www.taxidermy.net/forum/index.php?topic=376900.msg2524266#msg2524266

It's illegal to relocate them due to "disease" concerns which I think is BS. I can't imagine that being an issue in the same watershed.

Could have trapped him and found someone to eat him, but I do understand.

RAH, ya only saw it once but how often does it happen to keep that thing alive?

I guess but I felt I needed to get him out of the pond pronto. I have trapped them before.

I know folks eat them but considering the salmonella they carry around you couldn't get me to do it.

I am OK with a few predators taking some fish. The pond is a hobby for me and I enjoy seeing the diversity of wildlife it brings in. I am fine with others managing their ponds differently. That is why we have private ponds.

I experimented and put dog food in minnow baskets tied to the edge of my old dock. Had wild BG smacking away on the wire in no time.

I am wanting to set up a auto feeder soon.

Understood and I respect that and I appreciate that. I would be the same way if it wasn't part of my livelihood. Wouldn't even be concerned about the herons.

I do wish I could just relocate them legally to a local river. My thinking is the disease concern is actually about exotic pet turtles bought at a pet shop, and they won't want to complicate the law by making exceptions.

I've never heard of snapping turtle die offs from disease. Has anyone else?

I agree about some conservation laws actually being counter to conservation objectives. Its just a sad truth.

I can deal with turtles and a heron or two. Went to the country and there were 4 water turkeys on the pond.... Ugh looks like sniper time... Are they tourists or do they live there as residents?


Pat

They are like some snowbirds - they overstay their welcome.

Cecil, I've never heard of Salmonella in wild turtles, only captive ones that have not had adequate water changes.

Pat, my son called me via the cell, when he was at the pond the other day, telling me about the water turkey on the pond. I told him to take that dam water turkey out. But, but it's illegal he said. I raised him not to kill any animal he did not plan on eating. I guess some thing stuck. But if one shows up while I am at the pond , I guess I will just have to find a way to prepare him. Here in Louisiana we eat the damdest things . Maybe cut the breast up into little squares and added to crab boil . I also have a Kingfisher that shows up everyday just before the fish feeder goes off. I have chased him all around the pond in my Ranger. If I take off after him , he fly's to the other side of the pond. I figure, by me doing this, he is going to have to expel some energy for the reward. It's like a game we play That little Bass Turd.
Cecil, here in Louisiana , we eat turtle and it is really good, it is at the top of the price list at some of the restaurants here. I Garuntee u will like it in Sauce Pecan
Tracy

TGW1, I've eaten a lot of softshell turtles, and only a few snappers. The softshells are much more prevalent in the lake that I grew up on. You can separate the top and bottom shell on them with just a fillet knife if you find the right spot.

If the bacteria is present water changes are mute. The CDC recommends hand washing immediately after handling all reptiles included amphibians. All potentially carry salmonella.

I had a water turkey show up around Christmas. Tried to scare it away by taking 20 "pot shots" at it from the porch about 400 ft. away with my .22. Stupid thing would dive instead of leaving. That was his last mistake. The next day saw a couple of hooded merganzers...more fisheaters but they left the same day. The next day saw a GBH but the "pot shots" scared him off.

I fired my pistol across the pond @ the bank just below the kingfisher, he was not impressed. I shoot a FNH five-seven and the bullet will travel great distance, so I shoot to the pond bank. I worry about the skip if it hits the water. It's a fast and long round for a pistol.
Tracy

That's a little screamer for a pistol!

Might have more success with a 12ga and some buckshot. 8 or 9 projectiles zinging just below the kingfisher versus a single projectile.

Alternatively, what is the distance across the pond? We use the DJ1 Phantom Aerial UAV Drone Quadcopters to chase away unwanted guests. Works every time. Have some pretty good footage from the attached GoPro of the trespassers clearing out.

BTW, nice choice for a sidearm.

Guys, I'd think twice about posts reporting shots at or actually killing cormorants or other fish eating birds. It is against Federal law without a depradation permit.

This stuff is best handled by the old SSS idea of shoot, shovel and shut up.

Gotta admit that if a hawk was getting my chickens(I don't have any chickens) I'd take care of business.

Nice copter I've been wanting one of those, but I figured I would lose it on the property and never find it again. And I see the Five-seven picture, it is a nice one you have there, looks just like mine I was at the range awhile back and hit the bulls eye @ 100 yds. I was aiming @ it but got lucky I and hit it.
Tracy

The quad copter, the more I think about what u said about chasing them off, seams like a fun way of keeping the fish eaters away, but I might need to get a submarine to go along with it because I will probably have to retrieve it from the bottom of the pond some day. Heck, I've been wanting one of those Sub's with a Gopro to watch the little fishes. Spending the kids inheritance, it's kinda fun.
Tracy

Paintball gun

I figure the poster I was replying to A) knows the laws in the state he resides, B) knows any federal laws that apply. Such as is he legally allowed to discharge a firearm on his property (typically dependent upon a minimum amount of land and distance to a neighboring structure), are there any ordinances that prohibit shooting near a protected species, etc.

The copter is easy to control and since it is not WiFi the distance is ~900 feet or so. Don't know how large your BOW is but ours is not too big that we lose control of the copter. It moves tree rats (squirrels), birds, ducks, geese, etc.

No idea what laws might apply to scaring off anything. I'm such a lousy shot with a pistol that the chances are about 50/50 on which direction a bullet might go.

You too?!

Oh wait. You said pistol. Pistol's aren't known for accuracy over a certain distance are they?

I even miss things with a shotgun!

Do most here on the forum carry a firearm while at their ponds? I never do as a preventative measure, but will if I'm going squirrel hunting, or trying to dispatch a muskrat or two. Otherwise I don't feel I have a need too, but I'm aware that geography probably plays a role in that decision.

I only do when I am trying to get wild BG on feed

Hopefully AWAY from you

We do. Not for the DELIVERANCE cast, but for the wild things. All it takes is one rabid animal to ruin an outing.

But we also have a range I built, and so we often go shooting as well.

Never thought of that....

Tony, you've been here. As you face the pond from the road, the neighbors to the right (West) have a few dogs that are not friendly. They get out and run around the neighborhood once in a while, and I've had them growl at me on my property when I've told them to go home. I was bit by one on my index finger a few years ago. Talking to them does no good (the people, not the dogs). My neighbor, Brian, across the street had the Pit Bull at his place and called the sheriff. Sheriff went to the neighbors, and 15 minutes later came back to Brians, telling him "If that dog is back here, shoot the S.O.B. and then call me - here's my phone number."

So, about 80% of the time yes, I carry. I've also had a dog (at night, unknown who's dog it was) growl at me while running towards the door. I had just let Kate outside to go potty and she made it inside and I slammed the door shut. I've taken to looking outside around the house before I let her out, and I have the appropriate means to handle the situation if it ever happens again.

I never carried around my place before that.

That's too bad Scott. I know how sick to my stomach it would make me if I felt I needed to carry a weapon every time I walked my own property.

I hope things improve with your situation!

One can enjoy carrying a weapon around their property without feeling that they need to. Some just enjoy it. A stray dog only growls at me once on my property and for some reason they never do again:)

I am with RAH. My wife and I started carrying after we had our first kid. The gun goes where the kids go, unless it is unlawful to carry. A person wishing to do harm to my family will not stop just b/c it is my property. I have no intention of ever needing to use it but a pilot never has the intention of using an ejection seat either. Will be glad to have if we ever need it.

RAH, the times that it happened, I did not have anything on my person. Within 20', yes. Both times in the seconds that it took to get either the .223 or the 9mm with laser (both are kept loaded) the critters were gone. If I would have had either on my person when it happened, that would have been the last time it had that type of behavior.

Tony, things will change. I'll either out wait them and they'll sell and move, I'll throw up a fence (hate to have to do that) or I'll move (really hate to do that too).

One thing is certain , if you pop a cap on someone your life and your family will NEVER be the same. Try not to stir something that you can't talk or back out of. I taught concealed carry for a while.... Very eye opening


Pat W

Pat I agree 110%. There's a lot of situations that can be gotten out of (or not gotten into in the first place) by situational awareness and by using your feet to get outta there.

Never be afraid to walk away... May not be macho but that is minor to taking a life and what happens after that... It ain't pretty


Pat W

I agree with your thinking Pat. However, this discussion started with folks being challenged on their own property. We men tend to be very protective of our place and our people. I've had my place broken into and robbed. That changed my feelings. The security cams have continued to show strangers in my driveway up to the house in the night. The Sheriff has not solved the issue, having all my evidence. The county has had drug punks kill people in their home in a robbery. That all adds up to me not feeling very flexible if I find intruders. I prefer to avoid conflict and would hope to be able to give them the opportunity to turn around, but only so far I'll go before the 44mag would take over.

DN
I totally agree with you. But.... There are certain circumstances that you want to contemplate before using deadly force. In the case of home intrusions it's a no brainier most of the time. Outside Dif story. Even tho my state says you can stand your ground.. A lot of times, not all, you can get out without killing. Folks need to read up on what happens to ALL that kill someone, even when it's legal. If you have to than so be it.



Pat

I guess my biggest concern with carrying a gun, is it makes it that much easier to use a gun. I certainly believe that there are times when using lethal force is appropriate, and even required. I come across unknown, strange dogs on my property from time to time, and sometimes they growl and get all stiff-legged...but none have ever attacked.

I wouldn't shoot a growling dog any more than I would shoot some mouthy jerk here in my shop. Chances are I may never see that growling dog, nor that guy with the attitude, ever again. If I do, and the situation escalates, then that's another story. I guess I'm just not that territorial. Truth be told, I've killed a dog or two in my time. And I'm pretty sure that, in my case anyway, a better way existed to deal with both of those situations, had I given things a little more time.

Now having a gun around the house? Sure, I get that. I own several, just like I own several kinds of hammers, and shovels. And I consider them to be much the same...tools. I don't carry a gun when I walk our property any more than I would carry a posthole digger. I don't feel like I need either one that close at hand. And to be clear, I have absolutely no beef with those who feel differently. It's just I was raised around guns and hunting, and it was drilled into me over, and over, and over, that you don't point a gun at anything you are not 100% ready to kill, right now. We weren't even allowed to point toy guns at each other, while playing as kids.

I will readily admit however, that practicing with a firearm is a whole lot more fun than practicing with a posthole digger.

Sprkplug

Very good attitude about something so serious, that's one reason that I stopped teaching was the fact you always had a few "cowboys " that thought shoot first . Those folks don't get what they are implying. When I was taking my training to teach the Sargent told us that even in war a human doesn't want to kill another human and would shoot around the enemy. But with that said I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger if my family was in danger.


Pat

Pat, I agree, imminent danger is another story entirely. I simply don't want it to become a matter of convenience, when other, non-life threatening situations develop.

With the bad guys knowing you are armed hopefully they will opt for a retreat. In my state you can use a gun as a deterrent in it's self. And not have to use it.

Never once have I felt unsafe on my own property--even when it was in the middle of meth central. Things have cleaned up considerably over the years, thankfully. However, I'm usually packing for a different reason. I market farm and have 60 fruit trees, thousands of assorted berries, and a 5 acre vegetable plot. Of course, there's the pond to protect. Usually, I just scare things off but will shoot to kill if necessary. I love snakes and encourage them on my property with the exception of water snakes. Sometimes their numbers get a little high, and they simply take more fish than I'm comfortable with. The same holds true when I have to protect certain crops or just lose them to predation. For instance, a neighbor and I eliminated 38 'coons in a 100 yd stretch over 2 weeks. That is extreme overpopulation. They are often diseased and cause extensive damage to practically everything. I also protect my bluebirds, tree swallows, and assorted woodpeckers from invasives. I encourage people to enjoy my property as much as I do--as long as they respect both the land and my wishes. Some folks are so overprotective they invite more trouble than they prevent.

Having confronted a trespassing turkey hunter when I was archery hunting several years back was an eye opening experience. I suppose he looked at me holding only my bow and figured he had a shotgun and could run the show. It wasn't long into our conversation and I had a 12 gauge pointed at my head. Unfortunately for him, he didn't realize I had a gun concealed on me and although I really didn't feel like dying over trespassing,I also was much younger and felt more invincible. Shortly after, I was in possession of his shotgun and he was running through the woods in retreat. Not sure how I'd handle a similar situation today... Dying over someone trespassing may not be worth it. Unfortunately there are some serious criminals out there and many mentally unstable people as well.

Ya jes never know!

I wonder if you're a firearm owner, and you don't have a firearm on your person, and it could be something that would help you, how would you feel in that moment and following moments?

For us, it would be most likely a rabid fox. Young children here, youngest of which is 2. No way are 3 of my 4 out running or out smarting a wild animal such as a rabid fox. Oldest boy is old enough he stands a much better chance of fending off and or putting something between himself and the rabid fox. If I've got ground to cover to get to my spawn I can only move so fast, nowhere near as fast as a projectile exiting a barrel of a firearm.

We also carry UDAP, a spray designed as a bear deterrent. Have found this to work on approaching dogs, fox, and even bear. Thus far this has been the only tool used and needed. And this is carried at our home through the neighborhood on walk abouts. Too many odd dogs running free these days.

But having a firearm on your person also provides a tool that if the situation arises, you've got your tool with you ready to go.

I guess that's where the geography comes in. We don't have bears, and while we do have foxes, rabid ones are thankfully quite rare. I understand and agree with the desire to protect one's family, but I wonder if perceived danger is more easily contemplated than actually encountered. At any rate, if one draws a measure of comfort, or even pleasure by carrying a firearm around their property, then more power to them. That's what it's all about, the worry-free enjoyment of that which we work so hard for.

I have only lived in this house since August. I have seen a skunk walking across the yard midday (definitely something wrong with that picture!) Coyotes howl all night and there's a bunch of them. I lived in the city before moving here. I will be applying for a FOID card and bringing some of my guns from the old family farm.

Edit: My thought is to only bring my semi 22 with scope and my old single 410. I have a 30-30 my uncle gave my dad in 56 when I was born but I worry the temptation to use it will be too great with houses only a mile away. A 5 shot short barrel 38 Safety Police might stowaway in the car though!

Bill D, What is a FOID card? I thought long and hard before I asked this because I sound stupid sometimes and I did not want to look that way again but here I am And I would use the 30/30 before the 22 (assuming it is a long rifle). The 30/30 is a short distance bullet compared to the 22LR.
I carry my pistol because of yotes that kill the fawns and deer @ my place. The FNL 5.57 is a very fast, long distance and flat shooting bullet, and gives me the distance I might need. And a couple of years ago I found cougar tracks one of my wildlife food plots and I have a picture (from a game camera) of a doe that looked to have been attacked from what I thought was this cougar. I also carry because I hate the Western Water Moccasin's that live @ my place. They have a very bad attitude so I want to be on equal ground with them.

FOID = Firearm Owners Identification Card. Without delving into the political side of things (which would get this thread deleted or many posts deleted) it's something that the wonderful Republik of Illinois has foisted on their populace. It's needed before you can purchase a firearm or any ammunition. Out of staters don't need it to buy ammo.

Bill, what's an FOID card?

I have a lot of mixed emotions about carrying a weapon or even potentially having to use one.

MEANDERING THOUGHTS:

Let's stay away from getting into politics here. So far, we're doing great on that.

I have no idea how many firearms that I own. I have no memory of them not being around so it's been a way of life for me.

I am a huge believer in individual gun rights. I'm a NRA member and think everyone ought to be. Texas has the Homestead law that says I can legal carry a gun in my car or have one in my home without any kind of license. I have no duty to retreat if/when threatened. I believe that, if/when threatened, seconds count and the Cops are only minutes away.

All that said, at 72, I am too dang old to either run or fight. I believe it is best, whenever possible, to avoid confrontations at all cost. I realize that avoidance isn't always possible but I still don't carry one in my vehicle unless traveling. I agree with Pat about too many "cowboys" carrying them.

There have been several times in my life when I totally lost it, went from 0 to 60 quicker than it takes to type this, and later regretted my actions. I'm glad that I wasn't carrying a gun. I THINK that I've calmed down enough to have good sense but the jury is still out on that.

I have and will continue to eliminate problems on my land when necessary. Yep, I've shot neighbors dogs and will continue. Due to rude neighbors with free running attack dogs I carry a sawed off shotgun when I'm on my property. I really resent having to do that but will use it with neither hesitation nor regret.

Ever been shot at? I have and it's an experience and memory that will stay with you for a lifetime. I still get the shakes thinking about it.

I consider pistols(for some reason I've accumulated a lot of them) to be virtually useless when you really need to use a firearm. That said, I would never carry a knife to a gun fight. BTW, I can't hit anything with a pistol anyway. That means that some danged expensive short guns are closet queens.

A FOID card is a Firearms Owners Identification Card. It is required in communist Illinois to possess or purchase firearms and firearms ammunition. It is issued by the state police and is a government registry of firearm owners. In my opinion it provides zero usefulness except to stop honest people from buying guns and ammunition.

Bill D. I would be careful in carrying a pistol in the car if you do not have a concealed carry permit. Just need to make sure you carry it unloaded and cased.

Thanks Lassig, that makes sense.

The coyotes were raising a ruckus here last night also. Woke me up around 2 am. Like listening to them.

I've thought about it, and I think the biggest danger I face around our property would be bees. I'm constantly cutting, mowing, moving and piling, and I think there's a decent opportunity present to disturb a rogue band of angry yellowjackets. I suppose if I were to receive enough stings the consequences could be dire, and it might actually make more sense in my situation to carry an epi-pen rather than a firearm, but I don't do that either.

Doesn't quite carry the same "oomph" in conversation with the guys either...."yeah, well my epinephrine auto-injector has an ambidextrous safety cap, a fail-safe cocking mechanism, and injects 0.3 mg in one burst".

Yeah, cool factor plummeting.

Like lassig said, be careful about the loaded handgun in a vehicle. For all practical purposes, Illinois does not have reprocity with any state in regards to Concealed Carry, even though they were forced pass a Concealed Carry regulation. One thing that happened when they did that is make it legal for non-illinois residents that have a CC permit to legally have a loaded handgun (not sure about long gun) in their vehicle AS LONG AS THEY ARE IN IT. Once a person exits their vehicle, the gun has to stay in the vehicle, be unloaded and either the gun or ammo in a locked case. The other good thing that came about them being forced to issue CC permits is the wording of the law. If a valid CC holder is found innocent in a justifiable shooting, they cannot be sued in civil court.

Non-residents are not allowed to apply for an Illinois CC permit. I believe the only exception to that is CC holders from Hawaii.

Wow, this thread certainly took a U turn.

2 quick thoughts about pulling out a firearm of any kind while angry.

One, if you're expecting a crackhead to make a carefully thought out decision as he steals your widget, then you're already at a disadvantage. His safety and yours, will not even cross his/her mind, so be careful before you jump into a hole you can't crawl out of.

And two, if that widget is worth the possibility of your wife becoming a widow over its theft, then by all means go for it. Personally, I would have no problem protecting my family with deadly force, and I'm very prepared for that. But, I'm not as inclined to think I would start slinging lead over a inanimate object. The potential upside vs. downside just doesn't balance out.

My wife and I have trouble hitting a 2 liter Coke bottle at 50' with our his n hers 22 Buckmark pistols. Now shooting bees.............. that would be a REAL challenge. There is probably a law against it anyway.

Very right FIH. Just not worth it for "stuff".
One thing I struggle with is the wife's attitude about being in the house alone after the robbery. Nobody was there, nobody hurt, but now she knows they'll bust their way in. If I'm not there, she always has a dog next to her. The dog will do more than she ever could.
Preventative measures has been my focus since the break-in. My driveway is lined with lights, some area, some spots. The new high-output LED powered by solar are great. You can screw one to a tree and mount the solar panel pointed at the sun and it's all on its own. Anyone pulls off the road into the drive, a light comes on. And so on up the way. The cameras aren't preventative of course, they never know they are there. They've been put in for after I guess.
I have pictures of a truck pulling up the drive and once the top light comes on by the house, they immediately back out.
My sheriff has enjoyed my pictures.. but it hasn't seemed to result in action.

Thanks Lassig,

I would never carry a pistol in the car. My sole purpose for bringing any firearms here to the new place would be for varmints. A rabid skunk, coyotes getting way too close to the house, etc. I doubt I will even bring the 38 pistol. Haven't shot it in at least 30 years and IIRC I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it anyway!

Your cool factor will rise to the stars IF you carry that epi-pen and you're out and about and someone clearly is struggling after being stung or bitten, and they DON'T hae an epi-pen.

Been there, done that - a child was in the park, got stung twice, never been stung before, difficulty breathing, mom had no epi-pen, and so ours came to the rescue and got that little girl breathing regularly.

An ounce of prevention ...

Agreed. Our 12ga 870s are our go to firearm of choice. 3, 8 or 9 projectiles equals much higher chance of hitting the target versus a single projectile. If we could have only one, it would be a shotgun.

Something extraordinary would have to occurred for a doe to escape from a cougar. I would liken that matchup to that of a semi versus a bicycle. lol


FnH's Five-SeveN pistol is indeed a multi-purpose pistol. It does well at distance due to the flat trajectory of the 5.7x28mm round, while the low recoil and muzzle flip allow for quick and accurate follow-up shots. The "stock ammo" does well, but there are many bullets between 27-50gr that can be loaded to really fine-tune and expand what this pistol can do.

Basslover, I'm glad you were there and prepared to deal with that situation.

However, my counter point is the same as it always is whenever these types of conversations arise...where do you draw the line? If I try and plan for any contingency, my family car has now become a panel truck, filled with every conceivable item I think MIGHT be necessary one day.

Should I design a scabbard or quiver, that hangs across my back and contains a chainsaw? Ready at a second's notice, to reach back and draw that baby out....sort of a hybrid of a lumberjack and Conan the Barbarian?

"What's the problem here? You say you're about to give birth, and a fallen tree is blocking the only toad to the hospital? No worries ma'am, I've got this!"

And yeah, I'm poking a little fun and using ridiculous examples. But the point remains: when is enough, enough? At what point does it cease to be precautionary, and cross over into paranoia?

I have a few friends that carry their handguns everywhere they go. Grocery store, church, mailbox, woodshed, attic....you get the idea. And to the last man, every one of them is an extreme firearms enthusiast. They talk gun math, gun statistics, gun weights, gun laws....and that's fine. I have hobbies that I am passionate about also. But I don't feel the need to carry maple syrup everywhere I go. There's a time and a place, and it isn't all the time and every place.

True story: last year I was with one of these friends at his house. I was going to help him carry salt down into the basement where the water softener resides. We were talking, we each picked up a bag, and while still talking he reached over, picked a pistol off the table, and tucked it into his pants.

What? Is there a zombie horde living in the basement? Do we need to hold the softener at gunpoint while we add the salt?

It was strictly a reflexive, unconscious act on his part. It had become habit. And frankly, when it reaches that point is when I begin to worry.

When I was teaching I instilled the fact that you can replace a widget but not a life , yours or others

Pat

Your friends sounds like my neighbors up at the country- they pack in the house, which is paranoid in my book

Can't resist posting how I addressed this problem when I designed the new house. I installed a pipe from the back wall of the garage down to the basement directly over the salt bin for the softener. No more carrying salt to the basement for me. Just open the top of the hopper in the garage and dump it in!

Now you're talking Bill! One question.....do you still have to go down and open the lid, or is there a hole in the top of the bin for the pipe?

When I check the bin to see if I need salt, I leave the lid off if I need a refill. I'm betting will get pretty messy down there should I ever forget and leave the lid on when dumping! Kind of like the hole in the lid idea though!

I am grateful I have some well armed friends. We don't have rabid emus, trespassing meth heads, or any of that fun stuff around here to get excited about - but good to know you're a PM away! I'm glad we are rather sheltered up here in corn country - really have to look hard for any kind of conflict. Not surprisingly, I've found my share, but nothing that involved drawing steel, thankfully.

Travis' story was pretty scary - that's some serious stuff right there. I'm not sure how I'd handle a 12 ga to the temple...but again, this is another example of precisely why I carry extra boxers.

How in the world did we go from bluegills to guns?

What's a bluegill? Can you shoot it?

Don't get me started. Last year I had to pop a cap in a big HBG's caudal fin. Didn't want too, but he was making threatening overtures.

Few things worse than a big male HBG gone rogue. Unless it be a big male RES gone rogue.

It all started when some guy, whose name I won't mention, posted he shot a dang turtle that was eating his BG! With this crowd, whenever you mention shooting, the stories start flowing!

Its all in good fun!

Woa! I want to hear more about the HBG shooting! LOL

Actually you must have a FOID card to even own or have a gun in your possession, not just to buy.

I think I read it is required for any firearm with a muzzle velocity greater than 700 FPS but don't quote me.

Yes you can, BTDT, the "little" buggers are hard to hit, you really have to adjust your aim point but if you get close enough you can stun them.

Use a bigger caliber and you don't even have to clean them!

Not much to tell Pat. It was ruled self-defense, and since I had applied for, and subsequently received my EBBS (Enhanced Brim Bragging Sticker), all I needed to do was to peel off the label and slap the sticker on the carcass. I then called the DNR office and they sent someone down to retrieve the fish, where it was fileted and the meat donated to a local homeless shelter. That one fish fed 62 down-on-their-luck, folks.

I heard later that a similar case involving a huge BG occurred down Texas way, and that fish supposedly fed 74 hungry people. Course, that was a Jonah Fish Fry at a Baptist church, and I figure that multitude had that whole "Five loaves and two fishes" thing working in their favor. My fish was big without benefit of a miracle, so I consider I've bested that Lonestar Lepomis by a longshot.

Wish I had thought to have it scored by Baird and Condello first, though.

sprkplug
I just don't know how I missed that story, me being up on the giant gill stories. I heard the picture weighed 7lbs

Pat

7.5 on the heavyweight, glossy photo paper.

That could very well be a new record for the weight of a picture! Well done

I was recently sent a link to a web site showing the most crime ridden cities in the US. The little town of Bowie Texas, which is the closest town to my land, has the dubious distinction of coming in at #35. It is my personal observation that narcotics is usually the determining factor in these rankings.

I've had a few thefts in the last 30+ years of non resident land ownership there but only a couple of actual confrontations. One, many years ago, resulted in scuffling around in the dirt for a little while. I'm now way too old for that foolishness.

Another, 7 or 8 years ago, was defused by my ever present positive outlook, sunny disposition and a sawed off 12 ga single barrel shotgun. Those guys realized that they had no interest in my goods and left.

I find that property protection works best when everyone knows that you are a "quarter bubble off". -- Speaking for myself of course and downplaying where the bubble really sits -- It only took me a couple times of demonstrating this to rid my place of the vermin. BTW - I don't think you can fake it.

In the early 80's I had a bumper sticker on my dog trailer(it held 4 hunting dogs) the sticker said When guns are outlowed Only outlaws will have guns. Today I always carry my pistol in the truck on the farm and in the city. And I know if it is ever needed, I will be in the truck and not on me, where it should be. And I have stunned a few fish years ago

If only we just went back to constitutional carry. It'd make things so much easier and people's rights wouldn't be getting violated... Novel idea!

I point guns at people almost nightly. I've seen people be shot and I've seen what gun shots do to people. As the saying goes, "don't point your gun at someone unless you're ready, willing and able to take their life."

I would never look down on or judge someone who wishes not to regularly carry a firearm. It's not for everyone! I just like the option... Just because my gun is always with me doesn't mean it must be deployed each and every time an issue arrises .

It probably sounds like I'm all against carrying a gun around your property, which is simply not the case at all. As mentioned earlier, I have friends who are firearms enthusiasts and carry handguns all the time. But like I'm fond of telling some of them, just fess up! Instead of listing the same old excuses for carrying, the might happens, the could happens, the what if it happens, just admit that you LIKE carrying the thing.

I don't think they need to justify carrying a weapon to me, or anyone else, so long as they do so legally. If they like carrying a gun, then OK.

I like your attitude and direct approach to things.

Ditto well said

Pat W

Was thinking about this thread over the weekend as I enjoyed my little corner of frozen paradise away from phones, TV, internet. On Friday, the news story about the man in Montana broke. He'd been burgled. He set up motion detectors and when a kid went into his garage, he blasted him away w a 12 ga. Got 70 yrs for premeditated murder. Based on the reporters, it was largely because he'd publicly threatened to do the punks in. Does this thread constitute a similar threatening by some? Could PB forums be cited in a murder trial supporting premeditation?

I hope not, but a good lawyer might use anything he can get his hands on when it's needed to prove his case. And for the guy who set up this kid for a killing, I think he got what he should have. it was premeditated, I think he might have used a camera instead or just used the camera for what happened if he just confronted the kid in the garage. So if the kid attacked him and then he shot, he might not have gotten any cell time
Tracy

Absolutely. Anything posted on a public forum that is discoverable may be introduced as evidence. Be it pre-incident or most often post-incident (wherein someone posts online in a forum that they did something or something happened or they are venting etc.). If anything ever happens, shut it! Never post online. Find another avenue to vent. Your attorney will always tell you to say nothing to anyone until the case is resolved.

Just checking to see if this thread was back on topic. Nope.

I've read elsewhere that setting up an unattended booby trap on your own property will get you strung up. The fact that they are on your property doesn't give you carte blanche.

It can't be illegal to ponder how you'll deal with yet another intrusion/robbery. But any such pondering could be taken as premeditation to the ultimate event. Heavens, installing lights and other preventative measures could be turned into premeditation I suppose.

Is the deciding factor a risk to your person? The intruder in Montana was just nosing around in the guy's garage and unarmed. Was it a lack of warning/challenge?

Not saying the MT outcome is wrong. Just trying to understand how typical state laws draw the line between acceptable protection and an unwarranted attack.

There is always "you shoulda let the cops deal with it." That works better where 911 is 2 min away than in a place where it's 30 min at best.. if you can even get a connection to call 911.

Those threatening BG are really bothering me ya know. Stealing my feed all the time...

If I were to start feed training wild BG, I would wait until water temps were well into the 70+ degree (F) range.

I did not know that!

Thanks

Just trying to get your thread back on track.

I know!

My BG were not pellet trained when stocked. I stocked 100 pellet trained PS 2 to 3 inches last October. I have been throwing them a few handfuls of small pellets the last week or so and they are hitting them pretty good. I noticed tonight that several 5 to 6 inch BG showed up to give the pellets a try as well. Maybe you can train BG to eat pellets by simply adding SF that are pellet trained and the BG will learn? Interesting to me as well was that a few not pellet trained YP showed up tonight but they were only interested in the FHM feeding on the pellets and ignored the pellets.

BG can learn even without the addition of of other pellet trained sunfish. Adding pellet trained sunfish certainly speeds up the learning curve though. You may eventually even see some of your YP learn to take pellets. They're not as easily trained once older and used to only wild foods...