Pond Boss
Posted By: snrub Spotted Bass - 01/09/15 10:16 PM
Decided to do some reading on Spotted Bass (SPB) so while at it just as well post some links of what information was found in case someone else is interested.

In-Fisherman article They speak kind of highly of SPB. Could SPB be the SMB equivalent for southern waters? Says will stand higher temperatures and more turbid water.

SPB in Texas Hard fighters and agressive.

SPB maybe be used for trophy BG pond?????? I've read that SMB will not keep the BG population down enough. SPB has mouth size between LMB and SMB. In trophy BG ponds it is said to remove the largest LMB and keep a high population of small/medium LMB. Maybe SPB would fit the nitch for BG control in BG trophy pond without having to remove larger fish because SPB do not get as big (up to about 10 lb max)?????? Just a thought.

Fly fishing SPB

North Carolina SPB Says can out compete SMB and LMB in some waters so maybe not recommended to put in with them in a pond????? Might be just the ticket for my old 1 acre pond that has some GSF in it. Not big enough BOW to grow many big LMB anyway, so maybe would support SPB and grow them to the 2-3# range????? Just thinking (which sometimes gets me into trouble and often makes my head hurt).

Wikipedia info

Florida SPB Has some technical characteristics to ID them.

Virginia SPB Says most are a pound or less. Maybe not enough forage? Record is over 10 pounds.

How to tell the difference LMB and SPB

More ID tips SPB fight more like SMB, tend to go deep rather than to the surface according to this.

USGS with range and description

Crawfish bait is the way to go - numerous 4 pounders

New world record in 2014

Be careful putting in waters with SMB and LMB In certain conditions SPB can out compete other bass. Often need to remove smaller individuals so rest can become bigger. Sounds like same problem as LMB. Maybe would not have the problem of LMB doing away with SPB like they can SMB over time in a pond environment????

Enough!

Anyone have anything to say about SPB? No fish farms raise fingerlings that I know of or could find.

Edit: another newer thread on SB http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=436488#Post436488

Edit: Thread about aggressive bass where the discussion turns to spotted bass. Agressive bass
Edit: thread on another forum with short discussion of spotted bass in farm ponds. One poster said LMB out competed the spots and the spots eventually died out. Another poster said SMB were stocked as the only bass and did well. Sounds like spots might be similar to SMB in that they have trouble competing with LMB Thread about spotted bass in farm ponds
Posted By: esshup Re: Spotted Bass - 01/10/15 12:08 AM
Sounds like you need to punch another small pond in and stock with forage fish! Then next year get some spots......... grin
Posted By: snrub Re: Spotted Bass - 01/10/15 02:23 AM
I've got my eye on a wash area at the edge of a field near my old pond. I think I could get between a half acre and maybe up to a full acre pond out of it.

But I was kind of thinking RES/GSF hybrids in it.

Was thinking of putting some mean SPB in with Dave Davidson's favorite mean GSF in my old pond and let the sparks fly.

It appears on the maps that I could have them in Cow Creek that runs through my property. I've never owned a fishing license. May have to buy one and fish the creek and see if I can catch any. My son says he has caught spotted bass out of that creek, but I'm not entirely sure his fish ID capabilities are completely up to par. He said they were bass and looked different than LMB so that makes it a good chance. Maybe find out come spring.
Posted By: djnks Re: Spotted Bass - 01/10/15 03:04 AM
You won't need to buy a fishing license to fish on your own property.
Posted By: Omaha Re: Spotted Bass - 01/10/15 03:19 AM
I've only done limited research of spotted bass with smallmouth and found the spotteds would tend to outcompete the smallies, overpopulate and stunt. Undesireable, obviously. Would imagine this could take place if on their own as well, but a smaller pond and aggressive management could certainly curtail this. Very interested in what experts would consider viable forage options for this scenario. Travis likes a sunfish abbreviated RBS (redbreasted sunfish?) in some instances with smallmouth. Maybe that's a start. Or maybe even just bluegill if you can manage them along with adult spotted bass.
Posted By: Rainman Re: Spotted Bass - 01/10/15 04:20 AM
snrub, I could be wrong, but wild caught fish in KS (even off your own part of heaven) put into a private impoundment could make your pond "waters of the state", and the fish will still be the state's property....requiring a license to fish your pond. Receipts must be kept to prove ownership of fish in all states I know of, or they are deemed to be property of the state.
Posted By: snrub Re: Spotted Bass - 01/10/15 02:15 PM
Thanks for clarifying that. I thought I had read to that effect some place, and I definitely was going to check into that before I did anything.

Don't want that for sure.

Only other option is find someone who can commercially sell SPB as fingerlings. That is the best way anyway. Assured of disease free stock if it is from a reputable hatchery.

Thanks for that reminder. I would still like to know if they are actually in our creek anyway. Have an old neighbor that has told me several times that the creek had a good bass population when he fished it years ago. Don't know if he would even distinguish between a LMB and SPB.

Last creek fishing I done was probably when I was less than a teenager. Fishing license wasn't even a consideration for us back then when on private property, although it probably in reality was required.
Posted By: snrub Re: Spotted Bass - 01/10/15 02:30 PM
Originally Posted By: Omaha
I've only done limited research of spotted bass with smallmouth and found the spotteds would tend to outcompete the smallies, overpopulate and stunt. Undesireable, obviously. Would imagine this could take place if on their own as well, but a smaller pond and aggressive management could certainly curtail this. Very interested in what experts would consider viable forage options for this scenario. Travis likes a sunfish abbreviated RBS (redbreasted sunfish?) in some instances with smallmouth. Maybe that's a start. Or maybe even just bluegill if you can manage them along with adult spotted bass.


I agree with your concerns. In my minds eye (with fuzzy vision common) I picture the SPB having the same issues as LMB as far as management. Like you said, the ability to overpopulate and stunt (requiring regular removal of the smaller individuals). So in that respect it seems to me they would be managed the same as LMB. LMB have the ability to over eat their BG forage base if there is not enough cover for the BG. Even then they will overpopulate and stunt (Have a pond like that on one of our landlords farms - lots of small skinny big mouth LMB). So I'm thinking that in some ways the SPB might be a better match for a trophy BG pond than even LMB. With a mouth half way in between the size of SMB and LMB, that limits the size of BG they could eat. Also with a maximum size of 10 pounds and a more common large size in the 4 pound range, they might be enough to control the BG to an adequate degree without over controlling them. This is all just speculation in my mind.

They are supposed to be hard fighters similar to SMB in that respect. That should go along good for a light tackle pond with trophy BG.

From what I have read, for a trophy BG pond a person needs lots of small/medium size LMB and remove the very large LMB. It would seem to me with the intermediate size of the mouth and body of the SPB they might be just the ticket as the perfect predator for trophy BG ponds. But I may just be dreaming.

Edit: Bruce Condello, your input on the possible desirability of SPB as a predator in a BG trophy pond would be appreciated. How about Tony Livingston? I know you guys maybe are not that familiar with the SPB, but doesn't the size and mouth size seem like a trophy BG pond desirable predator? Thinking outside the box here guys! grin
Posted By: Omaha Re: Spotted Bass - 01/10/15 03:12 PM
My initial concern would be that SPB would not be as effective in BG management as LMB, but if in your area you regularly see LMB overtake BG, I can understand the consideration for SPB.
Posted By: JKB Re: Spotted Bass - 01/10/15 03:30 PM
I Spotted a Bass, but it was dead!

OOPS!, Sorry, not the same thing blush wink
Posted By: esshup Re: Spotted Bass - 01/10/15 04:51 PM
Originally Posted By: Rainman
snrub, I could be wrong, but wild caught fish in KS (even off your own part of heaven) put into a private impoundment could make your pond "waters of the state", and the fish will still be the state's property....requiring a license to fish your pond. Receipts must be kept to prove ownership of fish in all states I know of, or they are deemed to be property of the state.


Rex, theoretically speaking here.

Private property in Kansas. You catch Spots outta the creek. Stock them in an impondment, also on your property. They spawn. You remove the YOY and stock them into your pond.

Would the pond that the YOY were stocked in still be "public"?

Thoughts??
Posted By: snrub Re: Spotted Bass - 01/10/15 05:00 PM
Originally Posted By: Omaha
My initial concern would be that SPB would not be as effective in BG management as LMB, but if in your area you regularly see LMB overtake BG, I can understand the consideration for SPB.


I'm not absolutely sure about LMB overtaking BG here. The old landlord pond I mentioned most likely had GSF as any forage fish. Doubt it was ever stocked with BG.

But I think the general consensus is that southern ponds have more of a problem of the LMB over running the forage base as opposed to northern ponds where excess BG can be the problem. Of course that would depend a lot on how much cover the BG had in either case. Someone correct me if this is an incorrect assumption.
Posted By: snrub Re: Spotted Bass - 01/10/15 05:06 PM
Originally Posted By: esshup
Originally Posted By: Rainman
snrub, I could be wrong, but wild caught fish in KS (even off your own part of heaven) put into a private impoundment could make your pond "waters of the state", and the fish will still be the state's property....requiring a license to fish your pond. Receipts must be kept to prove ownership of fish in all states I know of, or they are deemed to be property of the state.


Rex, theoretically speaking here.

Private property in Kansas. You catch Spots outta the creek. Stock them in an impondment, also on your property. They spawn. You remove the YOY and stock them into your pond.

Would the pond that the YOY were stocked in still be "public"?

Thoughts??


Good hypothetical question. The question that came to my mind is how do commercial fisheries get their original breeding fish? Maybe that is not a relevant question for major hatcheries today, but at some point in time did not the original fish have to come from the wild? Do fish farms ever supplement new genetics from wild collections? Just wondering.

Another hypothetical question that I would hope no "official" would ever pursue. But what if some idiot neighbor bucket stocks some fish unbeknownst to you from the creek? Are now those fish and subsequent spawn now "public fish"?

Probably no issues to be worried about, but the technicalities could get "interesting", in a not so pleasant way.
Posted By: Bill D. Re: Spotted Bass - 01/10/15 05:16 PM
According to the Illinois Department of Natural Resources, in Illinois you would not need a license

"Owners or tenants (if they reside on the land) may fish in waters on or flowing over their lands without a license. This exemption does not apply to club and organizational lakes or lake developments. Guests must have a fishing license to fish the lake unless they meet any of the requirements exempting persons from needing a license - such as being under age 16, Illinois residents who are disabled or blind, or Illinois residents on leave from active duty in the Armed Forces."

Intersting to me is that, if I let a neighbor fish in my pond, he would need a license.
Posted By: snrub Re: Spotted Bass - 01/10/15 05:30 PM
If I understand Kansas laws correctly (and I may not), I can let anyone fish in my private pond (assuming all the fish in it are private fish) without a license. Fish purchased and placed in private water are considered no different than cattle or pigs in a pen. I can harvest them any way I want and let anyone help me I want without a fishing license.

But if I understand it correctly, for me or anyone on my property to throw a hook and line in the little seasonal creek that runs behind my pond dam or our main local creek that runs through our property, a fishing license is required because we are in "public" waters.

So if I ever have a Pond Boss get together at my place, you all should not need to purchase Kansas fishing license to fish my pond. But if the game warden comes and hauls you all off, I'll claim complete ignorance. laugh Which will not be far from the truth. crazy
Posted By: cb100 Re: Spotted Bass - 01/11/15 01:17 AM
Here in California they make you buy a license to fish even in your own pond for fish that you have stocked.they want money for everything.
Posted By: JKB Re: Spotted Bass - 01/11/15 02:00 AM
Originally Posted By: cb100
Here in California they make you buy a license to fish even in your own pond for fish that you have stocked.they want money for everything.


I guess they do that in a few other states as well. Kinda sucks!
Posted By: Shorty Re: Spotted Bass - 01/11/15 02:40 AM
Nebraska is similar, here it is all about being connected to other bodies of water by inflow or outflow that the state has regulatory control over. If connected and fish that the state has control over end up in your creek or pond, then a fishing license is required, size and bag limits apply as well. Pond owners need to retain proof that all of fish the in the pond were purchased. There is also the argument that most bodies of water are connected by inflow or outflow during high water events, so there are very few truly private bodies of water that don't require a fishing license. Basically you need to be able to show receipts for each type of fish in your pond and reasonably show they couldn't swim in from somewhere else, otherwise a license is required and bag and size limits apply.
Posted By: Shorty Re: Spotted Bass - 01/11/15 03:22 AM
Originally Posted By: snrub
Good hypothetical question. The question that came to my mind is how do commercial fisheries get their original breeding fish? Maybe that is not a relevant question for major hatcheries today, but at some point in time did not the original fish have to come from the wild? Do fish farms ever supplement new genetics from wild collections? Just wondering.

Another hypothetical question that I would hope no "official" would ever pursue. But what if some idiot neighbor bucket stocks some fish unbeknownst to you from the creek? Are now those fish and subsequent spawn now "public fish"?

Probably no issues to be worried about, but the technicalities could get "interesting", in a not so pleasant way.


If I recall correctly, a Nebraska aquaculture license allows for the collection seed stock from "public" waters. Not sure if that would be true in Kansas or not.

Yes, those would be "public fish" in the sense that a license is required and that bag and possession limits would apply. Land owners typically retain trespassing rights and don't have to let anyone fish.
Posted By: Rainman Re: Spotted Bass - 01/11/15 08:47 AM
KS Statute 32-703: State ownership of wildlife. The ownership of and title to all wildlife, both resident and migratory, in the state, not held by private ownerships, legally acquired, shall be, and are hereby declared to be in the state.

If caught in a stream flowing through property, you may not need a license to catch it, but you will to sell it commercially. If stocked into a pond, the fish caught and all offspring are State property.
Posted By: Rainman Re: Spotted Bass - 01/11/15 09:01 AM
In Missouri, no hunting or fishing license is needed to take fish or small game on property you own, reside on, or lease (corporations allow the privilege for only top officers). But, you need a "Landowner Tag" for deer and turkey (limits and state zone rules apply). You ALSO need and Federally required tags, stamps or permits for trout, waterfowl, migratory game birds, etc.

Further, if you acquire your fish from a state hatchery, (free), your waters and all fish are state property unless and until you kill all original fish stocked and then purchase and maintain a receipt listing the species and quantity of fish acquired from a private source. The state requires fishing take place on ANY state stocked BOW, but the state can NOT require you to allow people to trespass on your private property to fish.
Posted By: TGW1 Re: Spotted Bass - 01/11/15 02:54 PM
With some of the things I read, the guberment, represented by the EPA wants control of all waters, including our ponds. Not wanting to start anything here, just what I have herd, so I can see where a fishing license is just another step closer towards redistribution of wealth or control frown My mother always said I did not like being told what to do or not do. And did not care for authority. Her words tp me lol
Posted By: TGW1 Re: Spotted Bass - 01/11/15 03:26 PM
The fishing lic I speak of here is the one that might be required to fish your own private waters and not the lic for fishing public water because I am all in for the license for public waters.
Posted By: Rainman Re: Spotted Bass - 01/11/15 09:07 PM
When I lived in Arkansas, we needed a state license to fish or hunt our own property also
Posted By: snrub Re: Spotted Bass - 02/06/15 01:19 AM
Interesting article found about habitat enhancement for spotted bass. This has to do with streams, but has some interesting info about spotted bass.

Spotted Bass habitat enhancement PDF download
Posted By: snrub Re: Spotted Bass - 02/06/15 02:35 AM
Just found this old 2009 thread on Spotted Bass. According to Greg Grimes, they are very aggressive. His experience with clients ponds and spots was not that good.

2009 thread on Spotted Bass
Posted By: snrub Re: Spotted Bass - 02/06/15 02:40 AM
Spotted Bass thread from 2006

2006 Spotted Bass thread
Posted By: snrub Re: Spotted Bass - 02/06/15 02:47 AM
A recent thread questioning if a bass was a Spotted Bass because some of KingRace78 LMB looked different than others. He was questioning if they could be spotted bass, but appears not.

Difference in LMB and Spotted Bass
Posted By: snrub Re: Spotted Bass - 02/06/15 02:54 AM
A different 2009 thread on Spotted Bass. Different than the one I linked to in an earlier post.

Spotted Bass 2009
Posted By: snrub Re: Spotted Bass - 02/06/15 03:07 AM
A 2014 discussion started by Bill D. on Meanmouth bass that has some later reference to Spotted Bass.

Meanmouth bass discussion
Posted By: snrub Re: Spotted Bass - 02/06/15 03:13 AM
A thread all the way back to 2003 on Spotted Bass. Greg Grimes definitely thinks Spotted Bass are not a good choice for a pond.

2003 Spotted Bass thread
Posted By: snrub Re: Spotted Bass - 02/06/15 03:15 AM
Short 2011 thread on Spotted Bass.

2011 Spotted Bass
Posted By: snrub Re: Spotted Bass - 02/06/15 03:18 AM
A 2008 post that never got an answer.

Spotted Bass management
Posted By: snrub Re: Spotted Bass - 02/06/15 03:26 AM
2004 discussion of multiple bass species including the Spotted Bass.

2004 Other Bass Species
Posted By: snrub Re: Spotted Bass - 02/06/15 03:48 AM
2008 thread with good description of various bass species including the Spotted Bass.

coosa bass?
Posted By: snrub Re: Spotted Bass - 02/06/15 03:59 AM
Originally Posted By: snrub
Just found this old 2009 thread on Spotted Bass. According to Greg Grimes, they are very aggressive. His experience with clients ponds and spots was not that good.

2009 thread on Spotted Bass


I've been thinking about Greg Grimes comments about people putting large spotted bass in their ponds, then the bass being very aggressive and loosing weight.

There also has been numerous discussions here on PBF about taking large LMB out of their environment, placing them in a pond, and them doing poorly and loosing weight.

I guess what I am questioning, maybe the bad experiences with them involved moving a large adult fish that never became acclimated to its new environment. For example, taking a creek/river fish and putting in a pond or taking a fish from a large lake and putting it in a pond might not be the best way for the fish to thrive.

Perhaps the Spotted Bass to do well in a pond environment needs to be either started out as a fingerling or be recruitment so it spends its entire life in the pond environment???? Just wondering.

Surely since the spotted bass has been discussed on this forum since 2002 at least a few pond owners have tried spotted bass. Anyone out there have Spotted Bass in their ponds that can report on their success/failure?
Posted By: snrub Re: Spotted Bass - 12/30/15 12:47 PM
Was looking at information on the Missouri web site. http://mdc.mo.gov/discover-nature/field-guide/spotted-bass

While flipping back and forth from the Largemouth to the Spotted bass, noticed the difference in life span. The spotted is said to live about 6 years (similar to BG and RES) where the LMB calls for a 10-15 year lifespan.

Thought that was kind of interesting, and may explain some of the aggressive nature of the fish. Shorter lifespan means it has to get with it to reach maturity, reproduce, and keep the species going???
Posted By: snrub Re: Spotted Bass - 03/31/18 05:33 PM
Found this discussion about spotted bass in farm ponds via a search.

One poster said stocked with LMB they did poorly and the LMB out competed and the originals lived till they died off but no reproduction. Another poster said SMB were stocked in a quarry as the only predator (no competition) and they did well. Sounds like spots might need to be by themselves similar to SMB stocking in farm ponds if a person wants them to maintain a population.

Spotted bass in farm ponds

Cody Note: This from 'greentrout' about SPB in the above link: Caught them elsewhere and they are pound for pound, inch for inch, one of the best fighting fish anywhere.
Posted By: snrub Re: Spotted Bass - 03/31/18 05:51 PM
Just found this. Will take time to read it tonight (time for lunch then some fishing right now - wife bought me a new crappie rod for my birthday grin ). Do not know what it says.

It is a PDF download;

RESULTS OF STOCKING YOUNG LARGEMOUTH AND SPOTTED BASS IN SEVERAL RATIOS IN OKLAHOMA PONDS

Cody Note: This from above link: "On the basis of the number of fish stocked, northern largemouth bass produced the largest standing crops and spotted bass the smallest (Table 1)."
Posted By: snrub Re: Spotted Bass - 04/01/18 04:11 AM
Here is a thought.

John F over on the other thread stated that most bass anglers considered spotted bass an inferior fish.

Now consider how SMB are considered in the grand scheme of things. Few fisheries sell them. LMB demand for stocking fish is probably a hundred to one or greater (maybe a thousand to one???) over SMB fingerling demand. Most literature states that SMB have to be in a large BOW to do well so they can find their "niche". General information is that SMB do not do well in small ponds.

Yet there have been individuals here on PBF that have proven generally accepted knowledge about SMB being wrong. Stocked as the only predator, without the competition of LMB, they do quite well in ponds. Or so I am told and hoping to find out soon.

So do we really know what SPB potential in ponds really is? Or are we just making assumptions and going by what we know about them when in competition with other fish in large BOW's like the assumptions previously made about SMB?

Anyone have a bare pond and a source of SPB to experiment? What would a pond full super aggressive predator that maxes out at 7 or 8 pounds that is super easy to catch be worth to an angler? What if they could be feed trained?

Hmmmmm???
Posted By: snrub Re: Spotted Bass - 04/01/18 07:25 PM
To show they will get big!
Just a scrawny little spotted bass


In-Fisherman article on spots
Posted By: John Fitzgerald Re: Spotted Bass - 04/01/18 08:51 PM
John,
That is in just one large lake with maybe unique conditions that the spots are considered inferior by many. My new pond doesn't have any bass yet. I could get a few spotted bass later in the year after those BG have spawned a couple of times, and put them in to see. But, the spots I would likely catch at about six to eight inches would already be about two years old. The strain we have here is the "Kentucky" bass.
Posted By: Bill Cody Re: Spotted Bass - 04/01/18 09:54 PM
Someone always gets to be first - "one small step for man, one giant leap for pond management".
Posted By: snrub Re: Spotted Bass - 04/01/18 10:08 PM
Originally Posted By: John Fitzgerald
John,
That is in just one large lake with maybe unique conditions that the spots are considered inferior by many. My new pond doesn't have any bass yet. I could get a few spotted bass later in the year after those BG have spawned a couple of times, and put them in to see. But, the spots I would likely catch at about six to eight inches would already be about two years old. The strain we have here is the "Kentucky" bass.


Sounds like a plan to me! Who knows what they might do with all the BG and fish food they could eat? Long as you keep the otters away. eek
Posted By: John Fitzgerald Re: Spotted Bass - 04/01/18 10:13 PM
Bill, The otters didn't seem to affect the BG population very much at all. They went for the hibernating CC just basically lying on the bottom. Probably didn't get bass in my other pond either.
Posted By: Centrarchid Re: Spotted Bass - 04/01/18 11:30 PM
Spotted Bass are pretty good in a pond setting where sunfish are not part of the prey base which is based on personal experience.

The Spotted Bass are respected in what are essentially two story fisheries in some of Missouri's larger / deeper public lakes.
Posted By: NEDOC Re: Spotted Bass - 11/17/18 01:15 PM
snrub, have you ever found a hatchery source for spots? Just curious after reading thru this old thread.
Posted By: snrub Re: Spotted Bass - 11/17/18 02:31 PM
No but I never looked very hard.

Kind of gave up on the idea, especially where I now have SMB.

I still would consider putting some in my old pond if they become available. I would probably have to come up with a blocking net or some way to protect them a while because I have LMB in that pond. Or have advanced size stockers.
Posted By: NEDOC Re: Spotted Bass - 11/17/18 03:11 PM
I've been interested in trying SPB for years. I'd love to find some 2-3" juveniles, cage them, feed train them and go from there. But I have never seen any for sale.

ewest or others... are the SMB x SPB hybrids sterile? I've read differing accounts.
Posted By: NEDOC Re: Spotted Bass - 11/17/18 03:40 PM
snrub, in this thread jeffhasapond says there is a supplier near him. Although it was in 06 maybe there's a chance there is one. If so, I'll have them shipped here and raise them in a grow out pond and get a few to you.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=147661

Here's hoping jeff catches this post.
Posted By: Shorty Re: Spotted Bass - 11/17/18 05:38 PM
Elwood and Davis Creek in Nebraska have spotted bass populations in Nebraska, on average it takes 4 years for them to reach 12" here. If you find a supplier let me know, I wouldn't mind a few to work on thinning down my GSH.


https://www.nefga.org/forum/fishing-and-...astern-nebraska
Posted By: Centrarchid Re: Spotted Bass - 11/17/18 05:45 PM
I have been looking very hard for a hatchery stock of Spotted Bass. A producer near me has had them in the past and trying to drum some up from ponds stocked several years back. I have a couple thousand Spotted Fingerlings, but they are not legal for sale as from wild brood stock.

I have made hybrids between Spotted and Largemouth about 25 years ago. Hybrid, like the Meanmouth, is more aggressive than usual when on the nest. Next spring hybrid Spotted x Largemouth will again be made although use is not intended for recreational fisheries.

As a kid, we had several livestock ponds in southern Indiana stocked with Spotted Bass. They performed favorably to Largemouth in the smaller ponds lacking sunfish as forage. The spotted are not as good at protecting fry in a pond setting when lots of sunfish present. I think the Spotted Bass wean offspring before large enough to avoid sunfish going after them.
Posted By: Shorty Re: Spotted Bass - 11/17/18 06:18 PM
I suspect that spotted bass, like smallmouth, might do well in a pond setting where RES are the only sunfish present.
Posted By: snrub Re: Spotted Bass - 11/18/18 06:57 PM
That sounds logical Shorty. Or perhaps RES and GSH.
Posted By: Snipe Re: Spotted Bass - 01/24/19 05:29 AM
Hey snrub, never crossed my mind when I first read this but there are tons of spots all around you down there. I caught more spots probably 3-1 than LMB or SMB over east of ya in the spring river at the road bridge. Maple east to CR 270, go north about 2 miles.. Public access on the south side of bridge. It's on the MO side but might be worth trying to catch a few to move..???
Maybe I should bring one of my small 75gal tanks when I go to Joplin to see my daughter??? :-))
Posted By: NEDOC Re: Spotted Bass - 09/09/19 05:28 PM
Originally Posted By: Snipe
Hey snrub, never crossed my mind when I first read this but there are tons of spots all around you down there. I caught more spots probably 3-1 than LMB or SMB over east of ya in the spring river at the road bridge. Maple east to CR 270, go north about 2 miles.. Public access on the south side of bridge. It's on the MO side but might be worth trying to catch a few to move..???
Maybe I should bring one of my small 75gal tanks when I go to Joplin to see my daughter??? :-))


snrub, you ever get into any spots? Seems we have plenty interested in tackling this project, myself included. If I can come across some I'll be starting a thread on the process.

You coming up for Husker Harvest Days this week?
Posted By: jpsdad Re: Spotted Bass - 09/09/19 09:24 PM
Originally Posted By: snrub
[quote=snrub]Just found this old 2009 thread on Spotted Bass. According to Greg Grimes, they are very aggressive. His experience with clients ponds and spots was not that good.

2009 thread on Spotted Bass



John, where I grew up a native bass that isn't LMB can be found in most of the creeks, particularly in smaller, shallower holes in the upstream reaches. LMB have taken over most of the larger and deeper holes particularly in downstream reaches. I am not certain what species this bass is but in the past when I would catch them I thought they were spotted bass. They have bright red eyes and smaller mouths than LMB. Many old ponds that were bucket stocked from creeks have them.

With regard to moving fish. I think it is really important not to move a fish to water where it is larger than most of its kind. If the water could support it then similar specimens would already prevail in. Size structure can only be altered to larger fish from the ground up. Also, if the pond is mature, then it already may have bass biomass at the limit the BOW can support. Home fish should have an advantage.

To me Spotted and LMB are similar enough to be sufficient on their own. But if I really wanted Spotties, they would be the only bass I would stock. I like Shorty's idea of a different forage combination for them also.
Posted By: canyoncreek Re: Spotted Bass - 09/10/19 12:17 AM
the bright red eyes, and smaller mouths sounds very suspicious for 'Rock Bass', not spotted bass.
Posted By: jpsdad Re: Spotted Bass - 09/10/19 01:52 AM
Nope. Definitely not 'Rock Bass' that is for sure. They are a Micropterus species for sure.

**BUMP**

OK, so was doing searches on "red eyes". Turns out, lots of different species of micropterus can have red eyes and red eyes occur prevalently in various river species of Georgia/Alabama. I'm from northern OK so thought I throw a search out for spotted bass and Oklahoma and found a link at the DOW.

A bit of personal history. Locally we often referred these bass as "red-eyed bass". I was once corrected by a group of friends for calling them Spotted bass. And so in some minds locally they were our own special bass. Since then, I never was completely confident calling them Spotted bass. The link at the DOW gives me the confidence to say it is not likely they are any species other than spotted bass.
Posted By: Snipe Re: Spotted Bass - 09/10/19 03:47 AM
"With regard to moving fish. I think it is really important not to move a fish to water where it is larger than most of its kind. If the water could support it then similar specimens would already prevail in. Size structure can only be altered to larger fish from the ground up. Also, if the pond is mature, then it already may have bass biomass at the limit the BOW can support. Home fish should have an advantage."

If this was pointed at me, I was not implying that anyone add these to an existing Bass population. If someone builds a pond and wishes to try this species, in this case, the only way to do that is move the fish. I take some of this info-and procedure-for granted, we haul fish from one BOW to another- a lot. We also treat with specific chemicals to lessen the chance of parasites and other diseases, so yes, I often forget not everyone does it that way, but if done legally and properly it can be quite successful.
Posted By: jpsdad Re: Spotted Bass - 09/10/19 09:28 PM
It was definitely not pointed at you Snipe. I was just commenting that, (when like fish are present), I think it is important to transfer where their competitors at their new home are of similar or larger size. As it pertains to this thread, if I had a BOW I wanted to introduce Spotties with existing LMB, I would stock them at a size that is average and maybe remove one or the two LMB of similar size for each Spotted Bass.

When I said this ...

Quote:
Size structure can only be altered to larger fish from the ground up.


It was just an aside not pertaining to the topic of this thread or in response anything anyone posted in it. It is easy to be seduced by the idea that one may introduce large (eg 5+ lbs) LMB into a mature bow with an existing LMB population. In a sense forcing the trophy bow, however, if the BOW doesn't already produce large bass like it, IMHO the transplant should be expected to begin declining as soon as it is introduced.
Posted By: Snipe Re: Spotted Bass - 09/11/19 04:27 AM
"if the BOW doesn't already produce large bass like it, IMHO the transplant should be expected to begin declining as soon as it is introduced."

Agree completely..And very well stated.
Sorry I misinterpreted your post.
Posted By: jpsdad Re: Spotted Bass - 09/11/19 11:58 AM
No worries and no apology needed. I am just happy that you presented me the opportunity to clarify.
Posted By: roundy Re: Spotted Bass - 09/11/19 04:45 PM
That is a great thing about this forum when a disagreement or offense might be taken, there is a fairly rational discussion and then usually some type of resolution. We don't have to agree on things but is nice to have a safe sandbox to play in. I for one like to read a few weird or unusual thoughts on subjects, much easier to disect potential problems online rather than once implemented in my pond. Thanks, guys!
Posted By: Pat Williamson Re: Spotted Bass - 09/11/19 07:06 PM
You are right Roundy, sometimes it doesn’t come out so good and folks get banned.......
Posted By: ColdSpringsFarm Re: Spotted Bass - 11/23/20 02:01 AM
@snrub Thanks for compiling this information. I have struggled to find good scientific data on spotted bass.

I live in the piedmont region of South Carolina and spotted bass are common in our larger/clearer reserviors, but I don't recall ever catching one from a farm pond. One such large lake, Strom Thurmond, is 4 miles from my house. My brother fishes frequently and has been bringing me bass to stock my 3 ponds. He has been catching a 50/50 mix of LMB and SPB, most around 12 inches. I am skeptical that they will do well in my relatively shallow farm ponds, but I am struggling to find any data to help confirm that. My largest pond may be their best chance. Its 1.3 acres and a bit more sheltered from the sun by a valley and surrounding trees. We shall see!

Anyway, will try to keep you updated over the next year or so, and if you have any data on DO & temp requirements that would be great!
Posted By: esshup Re: Spotted Bass - 11/23/20 05:50 AM
Originally Posted by ColdSpringsFarm
@snrub Thanks for compiling this information. I have struggled to find good scientific data on spotted bass.

I live in the piedmont region of South Carolina and spotted bass are common in our larger/clearer reserviors, but I don't recall ever catching one from a farm pond. One such large lake, Strom Thurmond, is 4 miles from my house. My brother fishes frequently and has been bringing me bass to stock my 3 ponds. He has been catching a 50/50 mix of LMB and SPB, most around 12 inches. I am skeptical that they will do well in my relatively shallow farm ponds, but I am struggling to find any data to help confirm that. My largest pond may be their best chance. Its 1.3 acres and a bit more sheltered from the sun by a valley and surrounding trees. We shall see!

Anyway, will try to keep you updated over the next year or so, and if you have any data on DO & temp requirements that would be great!


There may be information here that may help you: Fishbase.org spotted bass
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Spotted Bass - 11/23/20 06:55 AM
I agree with Cold Springs - snrub did an awesome job in compiling this SPB thread!

As regards data on DO and temperature requirements: Everything that I have read (not much) suggests that SPB need higher levels of DO and are more susceptible to stress due to high water temperatures compared to LMB. This seems perfectly logical if SPB are better adapted to streams and larger reservoirs.

However, my limited personal experience is just the opposite! We used to fish a reservoir in SE Kansas that had a mix of LMB, SPB, and a few SMB. It was a great fishery and we frequently had both live wells full of a 3-man limit. This mix usually ranged from 50/50 SPB to LMB, up to 80/20 SPB to LMB.

Each live well might have 1 or 2 floaters at quitting time, especially if it took all day to reach our limit.

The floaters were always the LMB and never the SPB. I don't know the reason. The only other data I can add is that these were our eating fish. We returned all LMB over 3# back to the reservoir on the theory that they might have superior genetics. (The largest we ever caught was just under 8# in that BOW.) We kept every SPB we caught that was eating size. These were usually chunky 12-14" fish that probably weighed 1# to 1.75#.

We also kept the LMB in this WEIGHT range. That usually meant 12-16" LMB, but they were certainly less "chunky" than the spots. (Sorry, I can't remember the technical term for relative fish weight - I will edit and add if somebody prompts me.) Usually there were 1-2 larger LMB that we kept in the 2-2.5# range. Our worst mortality was in the larger LMB and the skinnier LMB from among the shorter bass.

I hope this helps!

P.S. esshup, I tried your Fishbase.org link to get some more info, but it set off all of the security bells and whistles on my computer. Have you been to that site recently?
Posted By: ColdSpringsFarm Re: Spotted Bass - 11/24/20 03:18 AM
Originally Posted by FishinRod
I agree with Cold Springs - snrub did an awesome job in compiling this SPB thread!

Thanks for the additional info. The livewell example seems like a good test. Definitely interested to see how they do in my ponds. I hope that the time of year, small size, and lack of competition will give them the best chance to acclimate before the summer heat.

It sure is tempting to put a few in a controlled environment(tank) and see what they can handle. Yet another reminder that I need to invest in a DO meter. 🤔
Posted By: Augie Re: Spotted Bass - 11/24/20 01:51 PM
To my way of thinking, spotted bass in a pond are much like green sunfish in a pond.

They don't get very big, and they eat a lot, but they are fun to catch and they taste good.

So if you want some, get some, but realize that something else that lives there will suffer for it.
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Spotted Bass - 11/24/20 02:50 PM
ColdSprings,

When you and your brother are putting the SPB in your big (1.3 acre) pond are they going into an environment that already has LMB? How deep is that pond?

I hope you get to run a good experiment on that pond and keep us posted.

If you really get serious, would you consider spaghetti tags on the SPB? I have caught SPB in a reservoir where the fish has an obvious fresh hookset on the opposite side of their mouth. I am pretty sure I have caught multiple spots in the evening that someone else caught that morning!

If you tag your 12" fish going in, you can find out if these are 16" fish later, or if they are losing weight and failing to thrive in your pond. You can also figure out how many times per year you (or your kids) can catch the same SPB!

Augie is of course correct that something else in your pond will suffer. I think all of the unrequited love for SPB on the forum is that we are hopeful that it is the "overpopulated small BG" that will suffer.

Good luck,
Rod
Posted By: ColdSpringsFarm Re: Spotted Bass - 11/24/20 04:26 PM
Originally Posted by FishinRod
ColdSprings,

When you and your brother are putting the SPB in your big (1.3 acre) pond are they going into an environment that already has LMB? How deep is that pond?

I hope you get to run a good experiment on that pond and keep us posted.

If you really get serious, would you consider spaghetti tags on the SPB? I have caught SPB in a reservoir where the fish has an obvious fresh hookset on the opposite side of their mouth. I am pretty sure I have caught multiple spots in the evening that someone else caught that morning!

If you tag your 12" fish going in, you can find out if these are 16" fish later, or if they are losing weight and failing to thrive in your pond. You can also figure out how many times per year you (or your kids) can catch the same SPB!

Augie is of course correct that something else in your pond will suffer. I think all of the unrequited love for SPB on the forum is that we are hopeful that it is the "overpopulated small BG" that will suffer.

Good luck,
Rod


I am glad you mentioned the tagging! I have been meaning to look into tagging options. To answer your questions, the pond is about 10-12ft deep. I moved over mosquito fish back in summer which are everywhere. In the last month I have moved over aprox 250 1"-6" CNBG and 10 or 15 fingerling bass from one of my other ponds. The only mature bass in this 1.3 acre pond as of now are 2 SPB and 2 LMB. The others that bro caught were put in the "holding" pond that all these other fish are coming from. I still plan to move over another 400-500 panfish while the weather is ideal, the idea being to jump start the age classes of panfish and other forage before I introduce many mature predators. This "holding" pond was originally intended to be a trophy BG pond, but I failed in getting bass established quickly enough. The bright side is I have LOTS of fish for these 2 new ponds.


Gonna look into tag options now! Fortunately one of the 12" SPB had an eye injury so he will be easy to remember.
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Spotted Bass - 11/24/20 06:06 PM
Sounds like you still have a good Plan B after the first one didn't work out quite right. (I predict some Plan A failures in a few of my upcoming projects.)

I think the real fisheries experts on the forum had a fish tagging discussion a while back (5+ years?), but I didn't save the thread.
Originally Posted by ColdSpringsFarm
Fortunately one of the 12" SPB had an eye injury so he will be easy to remember.

He was probably hurt trying to head-butt a crank bait out of the mouth of another spotted bass.
laugh

I do love the aggression of the SPB. Hopefully, you can make them work in your ponds!

Rod
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Spotted Bass - 11/24/20 08:37 PM
Found it: Fish Tagging 101 - in the Common Pond Q&A (archives). The thread started in 2007.
Posted By: ColdSpringsFarm Re: Spotted Bass - 11/24/20 11:07 PM
Thanks!
Posted By: Snipe Re: Spotted Bass - 11/25/20 12:57 AM
If I may share some tagging experience here, I will add that for the most part, in Kansas, the state has turned away from Tag studies when related to growth rates. I can get the info but I believe it was 2000 that Region 1 conducted a final tag study that was a 3 year project. The conclusion proved that when using tube tags on black bass, the subject fish showed poor growth rates on average compared to re catch rates of fin-clipped specimens that were clipped in a very specific size structure.
Lead biologists felt stress of the extra structure attached to this fish, even though very small, created enough abnormal resistance and discomfort that this method was not favorable for determining growth rates. It's very effective for location reference and re catch percentage but growth was much less in a given size than those that were fin clipped. Food for thought.
Posted By: ColdSpringsFarm Re: Spotted Bass - 11/25/20 01:04 AM
Originally Posted by Snipe
If I may share some tagging experience here, I will add that for the most part, in Kansas, the state has turned away from Tag studies when related to growth rates. I can get the info but I believe it was 2000 that Region 1 conducted a final tag study that was a 3 year project. The conclusion proved that when using tube tags on black bass, the subject fish showed poor growth rates on average compared to re catch rates of fin-clipped specimens that were clipped in a very specific size structure.
Lead biologists felt stress of the extra structure attached to this fish, even though very small, created enough abnormal resistance and discomfort that this method was not favorable for determining growth rates. It's very effective for location reference and re catch percentage but growth was much less in a given size than those that were fin clipped. Food for thought.

That is also good info. I actually wondered if it had any affect. I could see a predator that relies on the element of surprise being handicapped by a high visibility tube on their back. I was looking at microchip options earlier. That seems like it could be less invasive but a bit more costly AND requires a scanner being on hand at all times. I will read up on fin clipping.
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