Hi all, I've looked through all the forums regarding siphons and see lots of references to PVC pipe. My question is: can corrugated polyethelene "drainage" pipe be used instead of PVC? My local hardware store sells the 6" size in 50' lengths, which would be a lot easier to install than a system made from 10' lengths of PVC. It's also much cheaper in the 4-6" size! I'm talking about the kind without holes of course; they also sell a kind perforated with holes for collecting drainage water.

Some details: my husband and I are hoping to drain about 3' of water from an area roughly 1/2 acre in size, maybe a little smaller. From the deepest part of this pond it is about 7' to the top of the dam, then we can go down about 10' on the other side. The total distance the pipe would have to run is about 80-90 feet, which means we'd have to somehow splice together two sections of pipe. One of my concerns is making the splice airtight, which I understand is important for a siphon. Duct tape?

This is a one-time use temporary siphon because we only need to drain it this once. This is the main reason we'd rather not spend more $ than necessary.

Has anyone used this kind of pipe? Would it collapse under the vacuum conditions of the siphon? Is it a really bad idea for some other reason I haven't thought of yet?

Another option we've considered is cutting a trench through the dam to let the water out and then repairing the dam later, but will we risk washing out the whole dam? And would the dam still be as strong as it needs to be afterward? The soil is good clay.

Any help, thoughts, or opinions are appreciated. Thanks!

A couple things to consider,
water friction in corrigated pipe
ask about a connecter made for the pipe,I think youd be wasting good ducttape.siphons will not tolerate an air leak.glue it.
how will you get it started,a pump at the discharge end to fill the pipe?
how will you get all the air out of the corrigated pipe?
turning the discharge end up a little will help prevent air from running back up the pipe and killing your siphon.
if you go with pvc get 20 ft sticks,that way you dont have to buy couplers,and you can put a 45 at the discharge end.Mine is set up this way and works pretty well.
Hope I gave you some food for thought,hopefully someone has tried it and can chime in.Dont know what to say about pipe collapse,moving water can be tough at times.


... and then thers always the beer and dynamite method,just kidding.

...another thought. The corrugations will provide nearly unlimited chances of a stick or similar "jamming up" and starting a log jam.

The lack of airtight fittings for corrugated plastic pipe are the real killer to me - I've never seen any.

If you can put enough goop and duct tape to seal it, the corrugations shouldn't be a problem.

Since th pipe is for drainage, I would even be concerned that there are pinhole-sized leaks in the pipe itself.

The more drop or "head" there is, the less of a problem small leaks would present. If there's 10 foot drop from the pond to the outlet, for example, the water will really fly. If there's only say 5 feet, small leaks will cause th esiphon to stop. You will have to re-start the siphon very often.

I've considered the same type of pipe to drain my next renovation project this summer but was concerned about the friction loss also, as far as the fear of collapse the vacuum truck operators use the same type of pipe for suction hose to vacuum waste liquids of all types and plastic pellets.

I tried some 24" black corrugated plastic pipe with the smooth lining inside to make a crossing, in about 1 1/2 feet of water.
It floats. The bands won't hold it to together hardly. It was a complete failure for what I wanted to do.

Thanks everyone for the replies. You've all raised some good points, especially the air leak possibilities. If anyone has tried this kind of pipe I'd like to hear how it worked (or didn't).

What about cutting a trench in the dam to let the water out? It isn't very high, only about 1-2 feet above the final water level, and the soil is mostly good clay with some gravel.

Hi Fishin'Gal....ooops, forgot to mention: Welcome!
One of our members, Meadowlark, has had very good success with cutting a trench thru a dam constructed with good clay. This link will reflect on some of his dirt-wisdom.

Fishin' Gal,

I'm pretty sure the 4inch corrigated drain pipe comes in 100 foot lengths. No need to splice it, and it's about $26 at Home Depot.

For a one time job, it's probably your best bet for the money. 4inch pipe will easily take twice as long as the 6 inch, but once it's going, it really wont matter too much.

It's not the ideal material for moving water, but it will get the job done. What's gonna be really fun is getting the siphon flowing. I'm not sure how you plan to do that????

Eddie

fishin gal---EW is correct--both 4inch and 6 inch are available in 100'rolls---you may have to call around to find it--try landscape companies as well. i used some 6 inch to lay pipe under a road to feed a spring to my pond--one caveat--inspect it closely--my 100'ft roll (i believe was around $60) looked pretty good---- but i had an extra 40ft the guy "gave" me that had several splits in it and the couplings are crap. i think before i cut my dam i would experiment with $25 to $75 worth of this type pipe in a single roll. if time isn't a problem go 4 inch. you can put hardware cloth across the face of the pipe and keep it cleaned off to prevent blockage---i am curious how you would start this siphon? GPR

Well, I sure appreciate all the replies, there is a lot of food for thought. I hadn't really figured out how to start a siphon with this kind of pipe, but Bing has done it - see his reply:

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000165;p=1

As for our pond, we've talked to our "bulldozer guy" who made the dam in the first place and he agrees our clay is very good. With his help we are probably just going to cut the dam to let this water out, then seal it back up.

Thanks -

You should be able to get the siphon going if you submerse the pipe in the pond then once all air is out, pull the end over the dam and let it go. You will probably need to put a valve on the end so you can hold the water in the tube as you pull it over. That will start your siphon going. The hard part is pulling the end over the dam. Water is heavier than it appears.

i agree--6 inch pipe full of water is very heavy and extremely difficult to move--i have tried and can redirect it but moving it a lot would be more than you would want to try-- i thought maybe some type of suction pump might work on the lower end but was asking how to get such a siphon working due to my own lack of knowledge is "starting" it. fishin gal--have you done it yet and if so how?

Based on your description and the amount of water you want to move, a 4" would be plenty. And a lot easier to deal with. Be sure to post pictures!

Here's how I start my siphon:

Both ends of the siphon must be under water. If not, you can dig a small pit on the downstream side and fill it with water. Tee into the 4" (or 6") siphon near the highest point with any size pipe or rigid hose. I used 1", but even 1/2" is fine. Use a small pump of any kind to attach to the small pipe. I use a cheap hand bilge pump. Simply pump until all the air is gone from the siphon, and it will take off by itself. If your pump has an effective check valve, the siphon will stay running. If not, you will have to put a cutoff valve into the small pipe.

thanks bobad--wasn't sure how you could get that going--teeing into corrugated pipe might be a problem but i guess it could be done--probably easier to do using regular rolls of water line. (smaller diameter though probably could get 2")
--still once it's running she should be able to just let it run till drained.

They sell a Y connection for 3 and 4 inch corregated in Home Depot and Lowes. Its easy to hook up.

Several years ago I siphoned a "swamp" (pond taken over by lily pads and cat tails) using 100 feet of 4-inch corrugated pipe.

It took a little bit of doing to plug the outlet end so I could fill the corrugated pipe with water. I don't exactly remember the size of PVC pipe I used to make a plug -- I guess it was 4-inch. Anyway, I used about two feet of PVC pipe, with a glued on pipe cap. I shoved it up the corrugated pipe. It was kind of loose. I slit the corrugated pipe and put two large hose clamps over it, to tighten the corrugated pipe around the the "plug."

I then used an electric submersible pump to fill the 100-foot section of corrugated pipe with water. The plug leaked some, but not so bad that that it wouldn't fill up the pipe. When I loosened the hose clamps on the plug, the plug blew out and it started siphoning. It took over two weeks to get most of the water out of about a 1/4 acre pond -- but it worked.

FishinGal,
I used 4" sewer and drain PVC and when the lift hit 10' the tubing collapsed for 10' on top of the dam. The corrugated stuff is a lot weaker it is designed to handle some pressure but NO vacuum and will most likely collapse at the 6'-7' lift height. Try some PVC on top of the dam with a Tee at the highest point. You an use electrical tape to secure and seal the corrugated tube on the outlet side. Get a rubber cap for the Tee and a test plug to stop up the inlet and outlet. Then you can fill the whole tube from the Tee and cap the Tee when full. then FIRST pull the plug under the water THEN unplug the outlet and WaLaa you drain until the inlet sucks air. Once the pipe is full you can also check for any leaks and seal them with the electrical tape. Not as hard as it seems and will cost about 80-$100.