Does anyone have any input on a track hoe for pond clean out. I bought a D5, 125hp tractor and accessories, and now realize I need a trackhoe to clean out the muck. Yes, I know bigger is better, but if I spend too much more money my wife will start buying more shoes. Anyway, I am looking at a JD/Cat/Komatsu 120. I know this is on the light side but.... My pond size is about an acre and want to make it 1.5 and my second pond is about 3 acres and want to make it 3.5 or 4. Thanks, Craig

cwooten,

In the other thread on this recent subject, Zhkent seemed to recommend a 20 ton unit as about the smallest. I hope he responds to your post, but I've been looking for something 20 tons or better.

cwooten,
How far the hoe will reach and quantity of material it will handle are the end factors in selecting hoe size.
The 120 size may satisfy your need. If your going to load trucks with it you might be happier with a larger machine, although on one job some friends of mine loaded trucks with a machine about that size. It worked but it took a while to load each truck and they were pretty darn good hands at it.
I would not want to make a recomendation either way, and would be most concerned about the quality of the unit you purchase.

Meadowlark, boy I thought I was tonka deprived. I'd give anything to add a track hoe to my equipment but geeze! If you're married how do you justify it with your wife? Give us some lessons here please.

A couple of other things in choosing a hoe size are breakout power and lifting capacity.
The breakout force is how hard a material it will tear loose. Pond slime, earth, hard soil, soft rock, or hard rock.
Typically there is more breakout force as the hoes get larger and also the penetration force should increase.
Lifting capacity is generally limited by the weight of the machine. Most hoes should have the power to lift enough to tip the machine so the more it weighs the more it lifts before it wants to tip.

BZ, I find that I don't have to justify anything to my wife. I buy the toys I want and she goes out and gets even.

Why would you put up with that "getting even" stuff, Dave? You're the king of the castle!! You're the BOSS!! Lay down the law!! You have to let 'em know right up front that it's your way or the highway!

Bz,

I'm ok with giving pond advice based on what I have actually experienced hands-on...but those other lessons, well I'll leave it to others.

Just one small hint, however...if its for the grandkids enjoyment, most anything is ok around here.

Dang, Dud. Now, why didn't I think of that? As usual, I'll give your well considered, sage advice the due diligence it deserves.

I knew you would, Dave. Wow! It sure feels good to help a man re-establish himself as king.

Watch it buddy ! Note my last name and take heed . :p

That was a good one Deb :p
I think I hurt something, I laughed so hard.

I've had a pond 5 years, I've been married 23 years, and I'm much more comfortable giving pond advice than marriage advice.

Thinking back, I was probably more comfortable giving marriage advice when I'd only been married 5 years.

I wonder if I'll learn to keep my mouth shut about ponds.

Just think, all this started with "what size hoe." All the equipment is hard to justify with the wife. I just tell her that its either this or a shrink and I don't like sitting still in a room talking to one person. If this doesn't work I tell her this is my therapy and I need it. IF that doesn't work she just gets mad.

I can tell you nothing will work if I end up spending 50K on a 40ton machine.

Craig Wooten, married 14 years

Cwooten,

Size of the machine is not necessarily your best option.
In my opinion the length of the boom is far more important than machine size.

It is amazing just how far a standard boom (20’ – 24’) of a track hoe will NOT reach.
If you can locate a machine with a longer boom, you will be able to reach farther out into your pond to remove silt buildup.
Granted, the bucket may be smaller due to leverage, counter weight and other stuff related to physics that I can’t explain, but the work accomplished will be very rewarding.

I have attached a couple pictures of a track hoe with a 54 ft. boom working on my neighbor’s stock pond. You should be able to readily see the advantages.

Good Luck, Ed

Thanks Ed. I am guessing that is about a 50' arm, huh. My only reply is I am planning to get "in the pond" just moving out the muck as I go along as opposed to reaching in. Thanks for your input. Craig

Hey Craig, it's only $1.60 per pound. If you approach her right, it sounds cheap.

Ed,

Interesting post. If one is trying to optimize the amount of dirt to be dislodged(digging) from the pond (against $ spent on track-hoe), presumably boom length would not be the limiting factor? The longer the boom, the more power(more $)required to move the same amount of material in a given amount of time.

If I understand correctly, then a track-hoe for Craig's purpose(removing muck) might well not be the same as for say someone digging a new pond?

Dave, you mean the fish or dirt is $1.60 a pound. I'll bet the fish end up being about $1000 a pound. I like the $1.60 better.

The limiting factor will be if the muck runs or stays put. If it runs, I will have a problem without a long arm. If it stays put, I can move it out of the way to let it dry more and advance my digging. Sound logical anyone?

Craig

Craig, I'm talking $50K for a 40 ton machine is only $1.60 per pound. It sounds pretty reasonable as long as it's your money and your wife.

If you buy it, can I borrow it while you're laid up?

ML,

Makes sense to me.

But according to Craig, he will be able to crawl into his pond (de-watered) to remove silt. That is rarely the case in my area. Silt (muck) is difficult at best to negotiate with any kind of machinery.

Another advantage of the longer boom besides the reach into the pond is the reach for disposal of material outside the pond. Many time I have seen silt removed too close to a pond only to end up back in the pond again through overland flow and erosion process.

This Operator (above pics) was removing silt at a rate of one bucket every 20 seconds. Thats about 135 cubic yards every hour with a 3/4 yard bucket! Impressive work at $100 per hour.

Ed

Couldn't agree more, very difficult stuff to do anything with.

Dave, I am looking at one in Sulphur Springs, that probably not too far from you. If I end up with that one I will let you know. I will probably have it for a year.

Anybody know if Oklahoma muck will grow grass or does it have to be spread out thin enough for existing grass to grow through it?

Thanks, Craig

I have a Kamatsu 200. I don't remember the boom length. I think it can dig to a depth of 19 or 20 feet and has a reach of 31 or 32 feet. Pretty standard rig with a weight of 23 tons or so. It does a good job; but it sure seems that you can't really reach that far with it when trying to clean out a pond still full of water. I remember seeing a big trackhoe with an 80' boom down near Sikeston Missouri. They said they used it to clean out ponds and rice paddy canals (or something like that - we don't grow rice around here). If you want to really make progress though, you need a machine like this http://www.komatsuamerica.com/index.cfm?resource_id=113 with an extended boom. It could probably do a good job.

I spent $28,000 for mine (well used) several years ago and have spent several thousand more on it since. They can do incredible things, but they are also expensive to purchase and maintain. For most, it is probably cheaper to hire. They are fun to operate though.

cwooten, you've probably made yer mind up already, but I saw this topic and felt compelled to relate what I ended up doing last Fall.

My good buddy (and former yellow iron operator/mechanic/artist) used to own an excavation Co., and based on his 30 years of exp. I listened to him....he said "if you can rent it, rent it" He's out of that business now because of the headache of owning equip.

i opened an account w/ Co. called HOLT of CA...you probably dont have one in OK, but probably got something similar. they specialize in CAT equip.

Did it pay off dollar wise?.........we put 160 hours on a CAT 320 w/ 4-foot bucket and thumb in a little over a two week period, it was down about 5 times during the two weeks, w/ hyd. leaks and whatnot, and the big one was a cracked ram on arm (about a $7k repair job if I owned the machine).. HOLT sent out mechanics to my location each time it was down, they were there w/in an hour, and got us going again w/in 1 to 2 hours (except the day the ram broke, that took about 3 hours). At the end of project, the total bill to me based on hours was the monthly rate of $7,500, plus mob, plus taxes, total was about $8.3k.......if anything convinced me renting is better, my project was textbook ex.

I got a account w/ a local card lock (for Ag (red dye) diesel) and put two 55-gallon drums in back of my p/u w/ a electric transfer pump..kept the thristy machines working.

Just my two cents.......good luck and happy ponding

160 hours in 2 weeks? Boy, you were working. I rented a track loader and barely was able to put 38 hours on it in 9 days.

Craig, my "muck" is heavily loaded with sand. Sand, being nothing more than finely ground rock, is good for making mountains to attract kids. Nothing much grows in it.

dave in el dorado ca,


Thanks for a great post. I love posts about actual hands-on experiences because I think they add greatly to our knowledge base. You make a good argument for renting. I've been going back and forth on renting vs purchase, but the case for renting the track-hoe is more compelling than that for renting a dozer vs purchasing it. With property, many applications can benefit from a dozer, but the track-hoe seems very specialized.

160 hours in two weeks...you really moved some dirt. Thanks.

We've got Holt CAT dealers here in TX but they will not rent larger machines for short term use - they want longer term leases.

I'd like to get a D-7 for my farm/tanks. I have not priced excavators but noticed the United Rental yard had one with a long boom. I suspect you will find that an excavator becomes just as useful as your dozer, once you own it.

A friend told me that CAT excavators that sold new for $80k can be bought for $20, now (do not remember the model #).

I noticed that Richie Brother Auctions just sold a Hibachi excavator w/long boom for $37k (but I do not know what shape it was in).

Hello all. I am the proud owner of a track hoe. Hitachi EX150 with a custom built 7' bucket. Have only used it an hour or so but basically bought it because of the cleanout bucket. I tried a Cat 120 and seemed a little small. Hopefully I will get several hours on it this holiday weekend.

I am just starting to pile up the muck, which is about like pudding, into piles to be spread out with my dozer. This has been drying for over six months during our drought. The deepest is about 4' deep and the pond bottom is so hard it is hard to dig. I don't think the muck would ever dry out on its own.

Happy digging, Craig

Congrats, Craig. Keep us informed as to your progress. I'm interested in how "easy" it is to operate.

A guy told me that the only way to dry muck out was to pile it up and that gravity would help force the water out of it...sounded kind of like red neck engineering. I got some to dry by mixing it with dry sandy soil once but that's not very practical either.

I'm envious...keep us posted on the track-hoe operation.

i put (only) about 100 hrs on the dozer. the excavator was the real workhorse. i was goofin around w/ pics cause of that thread over on the questions forum, and found this one....this is how ya do 160 hrs in two wks.

oh, and a hearty good luck and happy ponding to you cw. congrats on your purchase.

My hat's off to ya guyz! As much as I like to think that I am "hands-on", I doubt that I will be running a dozer or track-hoe. It will likely be added to the list of things that I have succumbed to for out-sourcing: (larger jobs of) installing roof shingles and taping drywall.

D.I.E.D.

Slinging dirt so fast you blocked out the sun.

Here is the latest update. I have dug out half of the muck in the first pond with the trackhoe until I could stack it no higher. It actually doesn't stack that well the deeper you go. Like trying to stack pudding. In the deep end, the muck is 6 feet deep and gets less deep as you move away from the damn. I had to quit until my dozer arrived. Bought a D6 to help spread and dig the drier end of the pond.

I am using the 7' bucket as a cleanout bucket and switch to the 3' with teeth to dig with. If I only had the 3' bucket it would take forever.

AS of Friday I trenched through the second lower pond damn to let it drain. It has less muck in it, hopefully just a few feet. This will be an entire summer project. I will have to start reading and posting about pond design, drainage pipe, etc. Thanks for everyone's input. Will keep posting as I progress.

Craig

As of yesterday I am finally finished. Worked all summer on and off and every holiday starting with Memorial Day. Made a dike to redirect and divert water on the shallow side. Finished planting grass seed yesterday. All I lack is fixing the dam where I trenched it. This particular pond was dug down to sandstone. I would have to have a D8 or bigger with rippers to break up the sandstone which would gain me little. I will get photos posted if I can.

The only problem now is I have another one twice the size of the new one.

Craig