We are putting in a new pond and I have multiple ways of doing the spillway but I really like the siphoning spill way.

I just priced 10" pipe and 8" pipe and the difference in Tee's/22.5s/45s/and pipe are drastic as in a 10" tee is $350 and an 8" is $60, all other components are the same so my question is what about 2 - 8" Siphoning spill ways instead of one, the gravity flow charts show it would be slightly more volume with 2-8" but the price difference is astronomical.

It is also my guess that 3034 Green sewer pipe can not be used for a siphoning Spillway because of the velocities and pressures on the end of the pipe in full siphoning mode? 10" 3034 pipe is very economical compared to 8" PVC

Also I don't see people using anti seep gaskets in these systems, is there a reason why?

I have a 12" siphon system that contains 5 20" UV resistant pipe sections that I purchased from the local water company. I paid around $600 for everything including a 22.5 deg coupling.That was several years back, so the price is probably somewhat more now. No anti anti-seep collar was used, but it's never leaked. I also have a butterfly valve on the system and I've kept it closed for the past 4 years, allowing the emergency OVs to handle most rain events. Drought is what prevails in my area generally. I think that your dual pipe system would work just fine - even considered it myself at one time.

So your siphon system is the green or blue colored pvc with gasketed hubs? I have used it for a lot of this stuff and its called 3034 sewer pipe.

If this is what you used do you have an estimate of how many feet down into pond, then through dam and then down the back? I'm worried about the strength of the system in a full siphoning action for a day or so, I have 60 acres of watershed in the Willamette valley Oregon and it just finished raining 2" a day for 3 days straight.

We have 2 other large ponds and one of them is basically using a 12" corrugated culvert pipe on the native soil on the corner of the dam and it looks like a 12" firehose during some of our rain events

I did a calculation of gravity flow and the velocity is around 15 FPS, I'm guessing sewer pipe can handle this with little trouble, I just don't know is any pressure builds against the top and bottom 22.5 fitting on the downhill side produces pressure with that type of velocity. Hubbed 3034 sewer pipe can only handle 10 lbs of pressure

I actually just foundthe SDR 35 thread and saw where a guy had a 20' section collapse when he tried using it for siphoning a pond, this is what I was worried about so I guess I better spend the big bucks on schedule 40

Sewer pipe? Haven't heard it called that before. It's a cold water pressure pipe with rubber seals called Ultra Blue that was pressed together with a dozer. The pond has 165 acreas of watershed and is on a dry weather creek.

I am in the process of building my siphon system now and I went with 8" and the cost was right around $2000 for the schedule 40 pipe and fittings.

I was going to go with the 10" but the guy from the NRCS said that he wouldn't, just because it is so hard to put together. I never even priced the 10", but the 8" was pricey enough.

I built an emergency spillway, so I am not real concerned about an overflow every once in a while. I have about 75 acres of watershed, so I am sure that it will happen.

Also the 8" is heavier and harder to handle than I expected.

I was quoted $7.38 per foot and the fittings ranged in the $50-$100 I think the Tee was the most money, They did want like $600 for a butterfly valve though and I thought that was a little crazy so I will probably make a manual valve of some sorts. I have a lot of creative friends I'm sure we will engineer something ridiculous for well under $600

Concrete/ wood / and duck butter

I was really hoping you could use 3034 or SDR pipe for this, so easy to install we actually used it for a pond drain on our other pond but it runs straight through and is 6" If I remember correctly that butterfly valve was $300 and I kind of whined about that

if it weren't for those backside fittings I think the stuff would work, had I not read where the guy flattened the 20' section I probably would have tried it, I don't think he mentioned what size he used but the only way I see it collapsing is a peice of plywood or something large would have to cover the inlet instantly or they laid the horizontal pipe on soft ground with a rock or something in the middle or tried spanning across air and didn't know it so it was on the verge of collapse and all it needed was the weight to finish it off. It would be interesting to know

Well I just got my invoice in and it was not as much as I thought. The total, with cleaner, glue and all was 1,183.98. I paid 6.50 per foot for the pipe.

Well I have a few days to figure it out, 8" is so much cheaper than 10" but my Dozer guy has 40' of 22" so it looks like 8" siphon and 22" emergency

Dozer

Wow, that is a NICE video!!! Keep up the documentary of it that way. Are you a professional video guy? That gives a great feel for your surrounding area. Indeed a beautiful area!

Anyway, sorry I cant really help with the pipe terminology of what is useable or not, and which way you should go. It is very important to do it right tho. My basic thinking is that with the 8" siphon, it will at least drain off some of the bottom sediments and stagnant water with the option of draining the whole pond if necessary. It may not be big enough, but perhaps the benefits outweigh the negatives?? Just make sure your spillway can handle being used frequently.

Huskerduck:

RC helicopter? I agree, fantastic video!!

Not a professional by any means, just a hobby and a way of showing others from far away lands what I'm talking about.

Yes its an RC Quadcopter with a GoPro Camera, I will be definitely editing the video when the Pond is done

Yeah that's why we're thinking 22" PVC emergency spillway and also a rip rap spill on the native side of the pond, this will be our third pond we have done here, mostly for irrigating this

Ranch

Wow, Wow, Wow!!!

I have so many questions about your set-up to do that video, but don't want to steer the thread away from your main need. Very cool, fantastic place, and nice touch at the beginning with opening the gate as you start off. I am a big fan of ornamental flowering trees too. Great stuff.........

The guy who it building the Pond say's he has some 22" PVC he will sell for $10/ft.

To me this sounds pretty incredible but he says he's against the anti seep collars, he told me theres just as much chance they will cause a problem as there is they will help. Have any of you heard this? He also said he's not a fan of the smooth inner plastic culvert pipe because of the way it joins can leak and our dam is wider than 20' since he put in a 3-1 slope.

I originally was going to do the siphon spill way but honestly it didn't work out after we re-thought a failure or leakage would be impossible to determine considering they are buried. We are just going to do it the same as our other 2 ponds where we place the spillways horizontally at one end. I really wanted to use 2-3 12" corrugated plastic pipes because it takes an entire day to add 1' across the 200' dam and the 22" pipe in my mind would mean we need an extra foot of dirt to get our 2' over the pipe. He's saying we only need 2' over the water line which would be basically even with the top of the pipe unless he's going to grade the dam up hill on the end with the spillway which must be his plan because opposite of the spillway he's going to do an earthen emergency in the native soil.

Has anyone ever used a large 22"-24" pipe as a spillway and seen it fill in a 100 year rain event? I am trying to calculate how much rain it would take to make this fail and he seems to think with our 28 acres of watershed, it just wont happen and even if it did it would be an easy fix since it's basically on the end of the dam in the native soil anyway

OK, I have to ask. Was the video done with an RC helicopter and a GoPro? Beautiful video.

Yes, really enjoyed those videos, thanks for sharing. Pretty dogs, too, did you get them to chase the helicopter, or was that just coincidence?

But to get back on your topic, consider that for the same diameter, corregated pipe won't have the same maximum flow rates that you'll get with smoothbore and has a limited lifespan if it's metal. I'm a fan of Sch 40 because it's so strong. It does get heavy, but you just need to use a backhoe or something to push it together.

Anticipating some video after the pond is done and filled!

With you being so uncertain about the builder and the runoff potential, it might pay to get a county agency or similar third party to give you the size pipe needed for your specific pond. The pros here seem to know a lot of the names of these organizations that you could contact. Perhaps they will chime in?

With the anti seep collar, I have never heard of anyone not recommending it. People might opt not to use one, but don't see how it can hurt to have one. Whether you use one or not, with your pipe being near the surface of the dam you would only lose two feet of water to fix it later if needed.

I am not to clear on why you think a siphon is buried more than other drain systems, and why you wouldn't be able to tell if it leaks? Sure the inlet goes deep into the pond, but the rest is similar to any others, at least that is my understanding.

A friend of mine has a pond that uses a 36" I.D. concrete pipe for a primary spillway. I've seen it shooting water out of the end about 30 feet before it hit the pool where it turned into a large stream taking water away from the pond. It was 100% full.

So, in answer to your question, yes, that large pipe *could* be completely full. It all depends on your watershed and how much rain falls.

Anti-seep collars are cheap insurance - there's a greater chance of water following the outside of the pipe thru the dam without them. Yes, they are a PITA to pack dirt around and to install, but it's a corner that I would not want to cut out of a dam building project. It's also a PITA to properly pack dirt around a pipe going thru a dam, but it's gotta be done. Water will constantly be searching for a way out of the pond, and will constantly be looking for the weakest area of the dirt compaction process.

Yes I have 3 different ones and a GoPro Black, heres the ones I own

Blade 350QX
DJI Phantom
Flying Monkey Honey Badger

The Blade and Phantom are definitely beginner models which you can be a complete beginner and up in the air pretty much instantly but the Blade will go full aerobatic when you become comfortable, their Safe Mode is a little goofy and I actually crashed it several times because I didn't read the directions, it should be flown in stability mode to really control it and I would still call that beginner mode

Those herders go spastic over the Quads, they absolutely love it, when they die I may have to bury them with a quad. Unfortunately its hard to get video without them in the shot

As far as the siphon it has to be completely buried and this all comes back to failures around the conduit as well as expansion at a later date which would be quite a chore to deal with un covering the 200' of pipe ( expensive pipe/fittings)

Our other 2 ponds have had the spillways installed at the native soil ends horizontally with no anti seep collars as well, it was a decade ago but I thought I remembered those builders also stating they can actually do more harm than good but I am getting old

I googled not using anti seep and these popped up, theres more but I didnt read them all

http://www.boprc.govt.nz/media/33310/report-060900-reviewuseseepagecollarsinsmalldams.pdf

http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/nrcs142p2_023319.pdf

I don't think it's all that critical to have an anti-seep collar on a horizontal spillway pipe. A drain pipe definitely needs one because it's below water level, whereas a spillway pipe is at, or below water level only when it's in use. Perhaps, if there was a constant flow from a spring, a collar would be necessary.

Your property is a real gem, in a beautiful setting. That house ain't too shabby either. I bet your framing carpenters were glad to be finished with all those dormers and whatnot. Did you do an RC helicopter video tour of the interior of the house too? lol

Thats the owners home and no I haven't had the nerve to fly inside "yet" theres just something about 4 spinning blades and oil paintings that make me slightly nervous. My home is the one you catch glimpses of in the pond video, I am actually updating the video with more recent footage and tomorrow hopefully I will be able to take some filling footage.

I would be classified as the Ranch hand/manager/caretaker/jack of all trades, master of none, and my wife is the landscape upkeep/limo driver/gopher

Here's the updated video including quad shadows and more herding

Dozer

Im reading and finding that a new pond shouldn't be filled very fast if at all possible, I can fill ours at 100 Gal per minute and did this all day yesterday and it put about 1' of water in the bottom of the pond. If my math serves me well this is 1/2" of rain across 10 acres, that doesn't seem to fast does it?

Is 10 acres your total watershed for the pond and is what your estimating?

If your math is right, and then say plug in 100 acres for a watershed it adds up fast. But there are a lot of variables, like how fast does that rain come down and soaks in or not, what grade of hills you have, and soil types, etc, etc. I am sure there is an agency that can help you figure all this out for your particular location.

I'm saying I am doing in manually from another pond right now, I have 20+ acres of watershed but Im pumping 100 gallons a minute into the new pond which is 6000 gallons an hour and 144,000 gallons a day which is what 1/2" of rain would produce over half my watershed. The pond already has 2' of water in the bottom at the dam in 1 day.I'm guessing they might be talking about completely filling the pond too fast as in a heavy rain that fills the entire new pond in a day.......not 4 and only being 1/2 full

I've never heard that a new pond shouldn't be filled very fast.

I was reading some where about the anti seep failure and they said the number #1 cause of dam failures is filling too fast on a newly built dam, I don't see where 100 gallons a minute is that fast, I'm giving it a day break between filling.

Oh and the latest video......I'm changing all the links and deleting the old ones

Dozer