For the first bass of the year!

Great way to start the year! CMM

First 2013 fish. On a deep running crank bait.

Notice how big that bait is. The bass appears to be 12.5"-13.5". Can you measure how long that bait was from tip of lip to back of the treble hook? That bait could have easily been a small bass, YP or CC.

Oh, easily. The crankbait is 4" long (photo attached). I see them feed on their own all the time in the summer in the shallows. Out of the 3 ponds, they are the most aggressive and best quality. A friend of mine wanted to see just how aggressive they are and actually caught 2 average sized bass on a 7" saltwater crankbait and then one fatty on a 8" sassy shad (photo attached)!

Neat and interesting pictures. Thanks for posting them.

Makes me wonder if they have enough forage? Any length and weights taken?

Nope, I keep them out of the water long enough to take a quick photo and getting the hook out. Forage is plentiful. Pond is fed by two drainage pipes from a creek. The bass like to wait at both and snatch the bait fish as they come out. BG is plentiful across the pond and I can fill up a minnow trap up with them rather quickly.

I don't see a problem with the quality of the fish I catch.

This is the biggest bass I ever caught from it. My estimate is about 7-8lbs. It was 8 years ago.

The biggest bass you caught, and the last bass you kissed???

Haha, he was saying the pond lacked forage because they're aggressive. I'm just showing that the fish I catch look well fed.

Oh...but no for the last one I kissed

Awesome fish Stargazer but can I make two suggestions? As a taxidermist I get bass in now and then that have the bottom lip internally cracked in half right in the center bottom from lipping a fish like that. This probably wouldn't kill a fish but it could stress them or prevent them from eating until it heals up.

And if it was me, I'd go to single hooks vs. treble hooks. They can really do a number on fish let alone kill them if the hooks are far enough back in the mouth.

Just saying and I know you didn't ask my advice.

I have a niche market where I raise and sell trophy fish to other fish taxidermists, and most of the fish are harvested by hook and line. I avoid treble hooks like the plague as the fish I sell need to be in pristine condition. I have to discount them if they have any flaws.

Keep up the good work. Nice fish!

Well if you to hold it by the actual lip instead of the soft area behind it and swing the fish like a lasso, yeah I can see that happening. I mean come on, I have 5 photos in this thread and I get a lesson with only one of me holding holding a fish only by the mouth when I didn't have someone else to take a photo for me (or a camera capable of doing a timer)?

I only learn from the best.

Stargazer --

That is really fantastic.

It is amazing how different one part of a state can be from another part. Sunil, Todd3138, and I are all fairly close to the MD borders. While your fish are waiting for a big winter storm so they can go surfing, ours are waiting to go skating and sledding!

Lastly, think about posting that great photo in the 'Fishing 2013' thread.

Ken

Thanks Ken. Yeah they're starting to skate today, all but one the ponds stayed frozen all day today.

Do you do any ice fishing?

How close are you to the Harpers Ferry area? I like to visit there a couple times a year. Not only is it a beautiful location, I love fishing for smallies.

stargaser, at the PB conference before this one, the lady that runs all the Bass Pro aquariums was a keynote speaker. She said the same thing about holding the larger bass. She said that they might not look broke or seperated, but the effects of poor fish handling might not show up until 60-90 days later.

One of my Texas friends has a 35 acre "pond" that is a trophy LMB pond. He is fanatical about fishing in the pond with only barbless single hooks, using a rubber net to pick up the fish from the water, only keeping the fish out of water 30 seconds or less, and NEVER lip the fish. Even the Texas Parks and Wildlife say the same thing, there's a poster in his cabin from them. I believe I took a picture of it, let me find it.

If it was such a problem (which to me just sounds like a theory), there would be signs at boat docks as well as info on proper bass handling in fishing license brochures, magazines, and books. Why would TV personnel with hundreds of thousands of viewers encourage to hold a fish wrong?

And like I said before a short while ago and when you told me the same thing last month in another topic, if a fish was indeed mishandled by swinging it around without care, by holding only it's mouth, I can see real damage happening to the fish.

The notable guys in the pics above might be fish catching experts, but they also might not be real well versed in the proper handling of large bass. It would be very interesting to get their opinion. Once they are made aware of this they might make some changes to how they handle their bass. I tend agree with esshup especially after hearing the speaker at the PBossIV Conference, the larger the bass the more likely jaw damage can occur to the fish by liping it. When I first heard about this topic it was explained that these fish live their lives as weightless individuals. When lifted out of the water, their total body weight becomes much more of a factor, especially if the fish is large and if lifted and or swung into the boat by the lip alone. I can see where this would be stressful. I know I would not want to be lifted by my lower jaw. I rarely catch big bass so the whole topic for me is rarely encountered.

I'm still firmly believe this a theory based on someone's opinion rather than scientific facts.

How can you compare a 5lb fish to a 150/200lb average human with a completely different skeletal structure? If you want to go down that road then I'm just going to say I wouldn't want a hook stabbed through my face. Maybe we should catch fish only by net and leave the hooks at home.

Kidding aside, there are factors to this that I can see is true. For example, if you have a lunker...say...8lbs and holding the fish by the lip completely horizontal. If the fisherman doesn't feel any strain there then he doesn't deserve to have a rod in his hand. When you pick the fish up, you can feel if you need to support the fish more. Like when you pick up a newborn baby and know if you need to support it's head or it's back.

But let's not lose sleep over this or debate all night. We all yank a hook into the mouths of our fish, right? Aren't you risking damage there? What if your line snaps and the hook is stuck, possibly blocking it's mouth to make feeding difficult? Do you think we stress the fish out by pulling and forcing the fish onto land? What if we drop the fish as it shakes or spikes us while handling it and it dies on impact? I think I can speak for everyone that those who are fishing for sport do not intend to hurt their fish but accidents do happen. There are other things to worry about than broken jaws.

Sorry if you took my suggestions personal, but just two points and I will keep quiet:

1.) My comments were not just an opinion but based on personal observation of trophy fish that I've mounted for other anglers going on 29 years now. I've also been growing out trophy bass, bluegill, yellow perch, and brook and brown trout since 1994 in ponds and can see them close up and personal. My main method of harvest is hook and line before they are sold and shipped whole frozen as far away as Hawaii.

2.). These celebrity anglers typically fish large bodies of water and probably will never catch the same fish again to know what effects they had on the fish they release.

Next time you fish a body of water that gets a lot of catch and release bass take a close look at the maxillary bone on each side of the mouth. You'll start noticing one side will be malformed. That 's most likely from a treble hook. And check the lower lip. You may find the two bones that come together in the center of the lip are seperated.

Cecil, a number of those fishing shows are filmed on private ponds, although it might not look like they are.

That friend in Texas has had Jimmie Houston film at least one show at his place. (He also has a 70 acre "pond" and numerous other smaller but still "large to us" ponds)

I guess I was referring to bass tournaments where these guys get their celebrity status but you're right. I remember watching one of those shows and thinking,"That's a private pond with no one else around. How impressive is that?"

Same goes with the canned hunts where the animal is hemmed in with an 8 foot or more fence. Just not that impressive in my personal opinion.

For what it's worth, I have become convinced.In the past I would carelessly handle fish in a fashion that I witnessed the experts on television do. Now after educating myself, I cringe when I see the way I used to do it.

I learned here on PB,( and many other priceless tidbits) that a high percentage of fish, that are "caught and released" end up dieing unbeknownst to the releaser. And most of the time survivability are issues that the angler could have prevented.

Recently some friends were at my pond, and one strung a treble hook on his line. You should have seen his face when I told him treble hooks and stainless hooks are not allowed in my pond. I politely explained to him why. He said "Wow, I guess I never thought of it that way."
It takes on a whole new meaning when it's your money and labor at stake. But all that aside it's good animal husbandry.

I now even go the route of removing the barbs also.Maybe some now may get away, but they were never hooked that good anyway if they do.

To each their own,but when you think about how a fishes face becomes distorted when removing a hook,or lipping one, it cant be good.

IMO a fishes mouth was not designed by nature to be a handle.It never supports the weight of a fish until it's landed.

Not trying to be argumentative or bossy, just giving my 2 cents worth.

There is no question in my mind that holding a fish like that causes broken jaws. I have seen it a few times in my pond. A friend caught a four pound bass a few years ago and carried it by the jaw for about 100 yards or so to where I and my camera were. When he got there the jaw was broken and bleeding. I did not think the fish would survive and suggested it be cleaned. My friend insisted on releasing it. For the next couple of years I caught a fish with a mended broken jaw in about the same place as where my friend caught the four pounder. I think it might have been the same fish, but not sure, and each time I caught the fish it weighed less than before. i believe the broken jaw hindered the fishes ability to feed.

I was even holding a 14 incher by the jaw once and felt the jaw break. I had really put an angle on the way it was being held.

However what gets me even more is when anglers lay the fish down on the grass, the dock or the carpet in the boat. Professionsals do this all of the time. When you see the slime on the dock or carpet you know that you have removed some of it's protective slime.

I had a severely broken jaw doesn't impede my feeding, Great pics, Stargazer, next lop the head off and show a pic of in the frying pan. They're not pets.

You have to understand that I have only one photo on here of me holding maybe a 2 1/2lb bass by the lip, just for that one photo, I'm lectured. Again this is all based on assumption that basic lip holding "ruins" the fish. You don't know how that fish you mounted was handled by the angler.

I have the privilege of fishing 3 small bodies of water, largest being about 3-4 acres. There has been several occasions where I've caught the same fish twice...if not more, which shows they weren't damaged and is alive and feeding well. Out of the many years of fishing our ponds, I have never seen a mouth deformity or a skinny bass from all that I've caught.

I do fish public high pressured areas often and do notice mouth deformities there. There are many uneducated people who fish these areas that don't know how to properly handle fish (or to fish in general). You can't compare that to private areas that are managed and probably only fished by yourself only.



I would have an expression myself if I wasn't told about the hook restrictions before-hand, but kudos to you by going barbless. I haven't gone that route but I should. I do at least like to cut the barbs off my Texas rigs, where it has the danger of being swallowed.

Still have to disagree about the lip holding. The lip/jaw is just as much as a handle as the back of the neck of a cat or the legs of a chicken. Holding them by the mouth calms the fish and allows you to get the hook out and quickly returning the fish to the water. I found that the first grab on the lip will make the fish shake once, then he'll calm down and let you do your thing. If you try wrestling with him by trying to hold his body, he'll keep shaking and you're risking losing grip or getting spiked and having him fall to the ground which CAN kill him. Not to mention, you're taking off their slime with your hands, gloves, or net.



Ok so you're talking about someone who caught a big fish and swung it by the mouth walking at least a hundred yards, still keeping it by the mouth for a photo opportunity. He mistreated the fish so of course it was harmed in some way.

I think when it comes to TV shows, just about anything goes. Reality TV is anything but reality, and I think a fishing show is just a mild form of that. Most will do what is best for ratings.

Cecil, it would be interesting for research sake, to know how many fish you receice with broken jaws versus ones that don't. I am talking about fish that are brought to you. What percenatge are damaged in this way. It might be soemthing worth keeping track of over the years so that there becomes a statistic for research.

It only stands to reason that a fish in the water never has it's jaw subjected to that pressure. What in nature would ever cause it to be. Even when it's being pulled in by line, it has the choice to fight back until it hurts and then relinquish if it gets to be to much stress.

Stargazer, please don't take this personally. It seems like you have a understanding about the fact there is a breaking point of going to far. I think most here like to take various opportunites to educate others. The "others" being people that we never get to know but are looking at this. There will be countless numbers of people looking at this post for years to come, lets make them the best stewards possible.

I don't bass fish anymore, so really don't have much stake in the matter, but I believe that as long as the possibility exists for injury, then I'm going to do my best to prevent it. Perhaps it wouldn't happen every time, but the chance is always there.

There are good discussions here about handling of LMbass. I am pretty sure that no one in this thread is "picking on" any one else. Members provide ideas and suggestions. Readers are free to accept or reject the comments. I confess that when I catch a bass or larger YP I "lip it" using the technique just as stargazer describes above. Gently and firmly grasping the jaw of a bass does seem to "calm it down" so you can remove a hook or make some measurements. Trying to lift a slippery, wiggly, thrashing "freshly" caught large fish that weighs more than 2,3,or5 lbs is rather difficult without grasping it very tightly if you can even get your hand around the back or body to hold it firmly. What internal damage occurs to a fish that gets squeezed very tightly and who normally lives in a weighless environment? Fish are not huggers or squeezers, just humans. Try lipping a walleye, northern pike, bowfin, gar or some of the trout. Lipping is not a practical method for handling these fish. Catch & releasing those species by grasping without imparting some sort of body damage can be "tricky". That is why some anglers try to remove hooks while the fish is left in the water. Wetting your hands before handling a fish is also a good idea to minimize the slime removal from the fish.

An additional comment is that the angle that one holds the fish by the jaw can IMO play a role in jaw damage. I won't get into the detailed jaw bone structure of a LMB. However, re-examine the pictures above, only J.Huston in the 1st picture is holding the LMB in the most vertical fashion with the least distortion to the jaw-mouth structure. The other three anglers have the jaw twisted, stretched, or torqued outward in what appears beyond the natural gape of the mouth. Similar hangling is probably where and when a lot of damage occurs to jaw injured fish.

Now go back and look at the 1st picture in 1 of 3 pictures of Stargazer's 2-1-13 post. Notice how the angler is using their other hand to help support the weight of the large bass- IMO, a wise method of handling a fish for a photograph or for release.

Bill:

I've always heard and read about wetting your hands before handling the fish to remove less of the slime coat. But, lets take RBT for instance. Yes, those slippery squirmy fish. I wonder what does more damage, wet hands and really clamping down on the body of the fish to prevent them from squirting out of your hands, or having dry hands and hot having to squeeze so much?

Personally, I think the best way is to use a rubber net, leave them in the water and take the hook out with hemostats or someting like that.

esshup says -""Personally, I think the best way is to use a rubber net, leave them in the water and take the hook out with hemostats or someting like that.""
I wholehartedly agree. In-Fisherman and a few others suggest using a body cradle for handling large Esosids to minimize thrashing and injuring the angler and fish. Body squeezing is probably not very good either for the fish especially if the fish is gravid. The egg sac is highly vascularated and squeezing could cause maybe hemorraging around the egg sac? The only time that I think a fish ever really gets squeezed is when it is in the mouth of a predator.

The use of a rubber net is also probably best for netting a fish, although I confess my rubber net is very rarely used anymore. When I used light weight monofilament and some sort of sinker or also lures, and netted a walleye with a rubbber net my line and sinker would often get hopelessly tangled in the rubber webbing, and not nearly as tangled when using the cotton cord mesh landing net. The fishing partner in the boat would often be catching WE and teasing me while I was untangling my net fowled line. It was a good thing that the boat also had a "regular" net which I had to fetch up front to land fish while I had the rubber net frequently 'occupied'. Those were real fun times but not when I was catching all that light hearted "flack" for using that "dumb" rubber net. Who says all fish topics have been researched?

What makes a rubber net better for the fish?

Good point Scott - I even go barbless fly casting, and try to release without a net or even hemos if possible, but sometimes one still has to handle the larger [15"+] trout. They squirm more than any fish I've ever caught, and while it's hard to admit, I know I've removed a significant portion of a trophy trout slimecoat more than once, and it was probably lethal. It apparently takes more practice than I have logged at this point - and I've been flyfishing for 20+ yrs!

Scott or others may be well versed in what makes a rubber net better for helping land and lift a fish, but I think possibly the rubber tends to be less abrasive on the fish compared to knotted mesh landing nets.

Bill, I think that is one of the things that makes them better. No knots, and when wet, it probably doesn't damage the slime coat as much as a regular net would.

I've also seen smaller mesh knotless nets that have been dipped with a rubberized coating. More for trout/salmon fishing, but I've seen them used in ponds for warmer water fish too.

No nets for me except for fish I cannot reach - Boga Grip!
Lift from water, place hand under belly for support if big fish -
but you can't hide your fingers this way...

George1 - Knowing your absolute LOVE, appreciation, and repsect for your catches, I wouldn't expect anything else than your utmost tender loving care as your fish handling methods. You are a true sportsman and great angler especially when it comes to the art of fly fishing.

George - I love your sense of humor (and a lot of other things about you). But, what can you possibly mean by not hiding your fingers? LOL

Here's from the Great State of Texas:




George, that's a Fly Rod LMB.