Hello, my wife and I just bought our dream house last year. We looked at a ton of houses. After seeing this one having everything we could want and a pond we made an offer. I grew up on 12 acres and we had a stocked pond that I loved. We bought it in April and the pond looked great, about 100x100 didn’t know how deep it was at the time. Well got to cleaning out the down trees and trash in it during spring and it looked ok. It was about 4 to 5 feet deep at the middle. Then as the weather started to warm up the water went down and got covered in algae bad, tried multiple algae killers and added a $1200 aerator. Still no help with the algae. The only water source was rain water that we know of. In June or august it completely dried up leaving us with a mud pit. It has a 2foot around pipe leading in that brings storm water in. This past summer the city had mosquito traps set up 2 feet away to monitor the west Nile virus and found positive results. The local paper did a story on it with my picture of my pond/swamp. I talked to the township road department and the water soil department and they have it classified as a drainage ditch and will not help. They tell me I can do whatever I want. Whether it is fill it in or dig it out and the city doesn’t care. But I will also be liable of any flooding. The environmental.... (Whatever you call it, the devil?) doesn’t have any say over it either. We had a guy come in to do an estimate and he said for 1200 he would dig a 100 by 60 pond and build up around it but there was no guarantee the water would stay. I’m thinking of renting equipment and digging a 50x50 hole in the middle maybe 8 to 12 feet deep and putting in some kind of liner in it. There is a lady that lives behind me that says the pond has been there since the 50s. Most of the neighbors say that it hasn’t ever dried up. A few say it gets low when the summers are really hot which last year was. I cant stand to look at this swamp another year. What do you think are my options.

You really need to see what kind of soil you have so you will be able to determine if it will likely (or not) hold water. Last year's drought was pretty tough.

"Brings in storm water" concerns me. The amount of water that it brings in might make it a catch basin in a flow through pond. If you are catching overflow from city streets, it will be hard to manage the water quality. Is the city overflow pipe the only source of water?

yes as far as I know it is the only source. we do have a well for our house. I dont know if there is some sort of spring feeding it. the guy we had do the estimate said it was at the water table.

Welcome to PB. What area of NE Ohio are you near?

A water table pond will fluctuate with the level of the water in the ground. (I have one and all it's disadvantages - mine is about 4 1/2' low right now)

If you cannot find clay to line the whole pond basin with, you will be at the mercy of the groundwater level. A liner would work, but there's more to just digging it out and laying a liner over it....

As you found out, there are guys that can move dirt, but finding a good experienced pond builder is difficult. Maybe Bill Cody knows someone that you could call for another estimate.

If it was mine, I would taper the banks at a minimum of 3:1, 4:1-5:1 would be even better because you will have to walk down the banks to get to the water when the water is low.

If you don't change the current outflow device (if there's a huge rain event, where does the water go once it is full?) you shouldn't have to worry about flooding anybody downstream.

If you don't dig it any deeper, it might go dry again this year if it's a dry year. In any case, I'd stock Fathead Minnows (FHM)in it, just a pound or so. They will eat the mosquitoe larvae and help with the West Nile problem.

To keep fish in it all yar round, you should plan on having 12' of water in it to allow the fish to overwinter. That is 12' from low pool, not the top of the bank. A client had ponds dug 12' deep, but the contractor only dug down about 8' and piled up dirt 3'-4' around the ponds. So, during the wnter, there is only 4'-5' of water in the ponds. If he didn't have an electric aeration system in the ponds, he would have lost all the fish due to winterkill. I think he dodged a bullet this winter due to the aeration and the mild winter.

Dave is right on the money about the water quality issues.

canton, and you?

ok another thing. when its full it is on 3 other lots. 2 of the people i Have talked to and want nothing to do with it. the lady behind me swears its not even on her property but she has about 30 feet of it. then I have the electric co. sub station on the side and I havent talked to them yet. there is no drain or anything for the water to go once it gets full. I really dont know what to do. what if i fill in the inlet pipe so no water can come in? I think its only water from the ditch on the side of the road that it is coming from. Im pissed that the listing for the house said pond and not storm water catch basin! And also that the township put the pipe there to drain onto my property and will not help maintain it. Is there someone else I can call about this?

Filling in the inlet pipe probably won't sit too well with the county.....

If you make it hold water and it's on the other peoples property, then they will benefit from your work, and they could add/remove fish that are on their "property".

That's the bad part about having a pond that is not completely on your property.

I don't know what other options you have.

We have a client that owns a house in a small sub-division. It's somewhat something like yours, it has a small creek that during high rain events, drains into the pond, and the pond overflows into another creek. There are 4 houses on the pond, and one large vacant lot. This client put in an aeration system, Texas Hunter feeder, and haas us stock/manage the pond. He's the only one of all the houses that has anything to do with the pond, and he's comfortable footing the whole bill. We believe another house on the pond is annually stocking goldfish in the pond, but nobody will own up to it.

swamp rehab
This may not be as bad as it looks, it might be the beginning of the pond you want and you remember growing up with.
Like Dave said the storm water may be an issue.
As a rule shallow water is our enemy—evaporates faster-allows aquatic vegetation to grow—and shrinks to half of its size when it gets low.
Water either go up –evaporation
Down –poor soil
Sideways—under the dam
A pond that has been around since the fifties holds water well and is not leaking under the dam, most of the water is evaporating. THIS IS A COMMON SINCE GUESS.
Now all that to get to this. With it dry now is the time to rehab this swamp (clean it out).
Check with the neighbors let them know what your plans are, if they want to help great but if not most of the water is on you anyway. Do not suffer with a bad pond that can be fixed—that is part of the reason you bought the property.
otto

I am about an hour north of you. North of Ravenna and the old arsenal. I had three guys qoute me, and didnt really like thier ideas of how to do it. One was ok, but the price was really high and I wasn't convinced it was because he was good. I now see another guy advertising in the farm bureua newsletter that claims to do ponds.





I would tread carefully. Even if the outflow was the same, and someone down stream got flooded by an odd circumstance, they might come back at you and say it was because the pond was altered.... Better keep strict records of the past elevations, etc., for liabilty sake.

What about taking the dirt from making it deeper and using it to fill in the neighbors property, with thier permission of course. Make a mowing strip around it that's all on your property. Then the water wouldn't be on their property and you have sole rights to the water. They might be happy about not having a soggy backyard.

I wonder what liability issues there may result from if you would decide to dig out and keep the pond topped of with well water during hot/dry weather. Could they say you added to flooding?

these are both ideas i have thought of. one of my fears is once I make this a nice place to fish or swim that the whole neighborhood will want to be involved now that I sepent all of this money to rehab it. the only thing they have done so far is dump gallons of bleach in it from time to time

ok so this makes me feel better. there is hope yet.

I really dont see the water going anywhere umless it went 5 to 6 feet above what it normally is. then it would probably go to the street and down the sewer. but by then it would probably have spread out so far that it wouldnt matter. it is the lowest part of the proprty around. almost in a small valley. Ill try to post some pics from google earth or somthing

Swamp rehab
There are some ponds that drain in the same place they drain out, it happens as you said. The water continues to rise, gets full then backs out to another drain close by. But most of the time there is some kind of spillway somewhere.

Also you cannot cause flooding by adding storage to a pond the effect is the opposite.
otto

If that's the case, I would think that you are in good shape.


I still would worry about sharing it with neighbors. Your better off eliminating that if you can. Talk to them about filling in the pond on their property.

I would be very careful before doing alterations.

My parents live on lot that is quite similar to yours - there is a half acre or so pond that was originally dug by the developer in a wet area, however there is a creek leading into it, along with stormwater and has an outflow that exits under the street.

As it accepts storm water, it has silted in over the years, but prior to their purchase there was a significant storm event where the outflow pipe was clogged with fallen limbs and the water wound up 2’ deep in their basement, and in the basement of adjacent homes that also share a portion of the pond. Nature has a funny way of biting you in the *** sometimes, and if it can be shown that you had anything to do with causing damage to someone else’s property, you’ll be an easy target for lawyers.

It may well be that the 2’ pipe was engineered to move a specific volume of water from wherever it’s inlet is, and if you block it up, you could very easily cause flooding somewhere else…perhaps not into someone’s home, but a persistent flooding of their yard, or cause a pool on the street and a car hydroplanes and wrecks…

If you dig out the pond, and a neighbor child God forbid falls in….you see where this can go.

About two or three years ago in Atlanta, there was a rain event that flooded local creeks and small rivers, and caused millions in damage to people that didn’t have flood insurance because they never thought they needed it…no one knew the creeks could rise like that….

Otto is a pond builder extraordinaire, when he talks, I listen.

Edit, I saw the images from your porch. If you do dig it deeper, where will the dirt go? Basically, when you dig something, the dug dirt isn't packed as tight, so there's a "fluff" factor that you have to deal with. IIRC one cubid yard of dirt in the ground equals 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 cubic yard of dirt after it's dug out.

I would add to esshhup's comment above, in that if this is the lowest spot around you have no place to pump the water out. That means digging in water which translates to a real fluid dirt/mess. Can't even pile that stuff up 6". Maybe Otto can see a fix to this. He is the best, just wish he lived close by.

That's a great one!

I would really try and get the neighbors on board before offering to fill their part of the pond in.While you might not get them to share the costs at first it is in their best interest as a owner to have a viable managed pond vs a mosquito pit that detracts from the property value.

Speaking of value,it might be wise to talk to a few realtors to see how the property values would increase with a proper pond in place vs a neglected mosquito hole full of algae.Chances are the comps around you without a pond have a big difference in price.I think if you can show that what you would like to do will increase the value of their properties too you'll have a much better chance to move forwards.

I'd also think about speaking to a real estate attorney about the possibility of forming a pond owners association of sorts in the form of a HOA.While it is a long shot I know of one place here in NJ where a few owners formed a HOA to improve a sub division.While most of the owners didnt pay for the initial improvements they did agree to pay HOA fees,some of which went to repay part of the initial investment and the rest was for maintenance along with future costs.

While it is a long shot that they will share the initial rehab costs,by working with them to increase their property value you'll hopefully get a green light to do some work and possibly share management costs in the future.

Thanx for all of the advice and help everyone. Im going to try to get in touch with the electric co. and the land lord next door. the owner behind me really doesnt care either way.

Hi there swamp rehab.don,t no if I can be of much help,I also live in canton ohio.but I had kind of the same problems.I do no a good dirt guy thats here in canton.he has gotin me 1000s of yards of dirt,and is an exavater in our area. being that I dont even know if you will see this just trying to help.have not posted here yet but always wanted too.pm me Derek north canton ohio.

Welcome Derek. Good to see another one from Ohio. Took three years to post for the first time, I see! Its amazing how many read the forum and you just don't know it.

Glad to have you on board---Derek

So we are getting a $4,000 refund on our taxes that we are going to dump into doing the pond. Is this even enough or should we save it and add it to next years return?

Have you decided on a course of action?

Just when we were getting more Hoosiers more Buckeyes show up.

Welcome Derek....Swamp, have you contacted your local NRCS agent at your county USDA office....solving your kind of problem is his job and the service is free.