Pond Boss
Posted By: Snipe Having a tuff time - 11/03/22 06:00 AM
Hey all, being an open person with friends I thought I would share a little something here with all of you I have been personally rewarded by, whether it be advise or help in other ways.
Last Friday I got to feeling pretty rank and Saturday was really down-hill. Saturday night I was flown by Air Evac by my own company to Denver to get help after contracting Covid (we do not know the variant). I was allowed to come home yesterday am via my own air ambulance company again, because my aircraft is frequently in Denver on transfers- with the understanding recovery was in order. They started me on an experimental med for emergent use only that is yet to be approved.
My respiratory system is not working as it should and progress today has been backwards.
As of right now, 11:43 pm mountain time, we are considering a possible trip back to emergent care facility of which we are unclear of the destination yet.
I ask my wife to get my PC and get me to this spot so I could say thank you to those that have made things so exciting for me that I had to say thank you because I do NOT know what will come next. Nobody wants to think about what could happen, but I've silently been concerned of this due to other underlying factors that may complicate things with a total recovery.
I'd like to think I can fight like a big old fat smallie but something inside said I need to drop a note here.
Maybe this is not the place to say this, but I really appreciate the acceptance I feel in this group of very fine people.
I know I have a few people still waiting for fish and I hope with all my heart I can still fill those requests.
I'm not quite ready to throw in the towel and have a lot of fight left. I also respect some here have or are going through harder trials in life. With that said, I hope to be back soon and join in again.
Thanks Guys!
Kenny
Posted By: RAH Re: Having a tuff time - 11/03/22 10:23 AM
Prayers coming your way. Keep up the fight! Think about those that need you and want you around, like us.
Posted By: RStringer Re: Having a tuff time - 11/03/22 10:31 AM
Not sure what to say here. Man i hate hearing news like this. I'm all of us on here will be praying 4 ya. Covid has been one nasty bitch. Hopefully they get ya some meds that will help. Your health is way more important then some fish.
Posted By: anthropic Re: Having a tuff time - 11/03/22 12:07 PM
I am so sorry to hear that, Kenny. You got my prayers for a quick & full recovery!
Posted By: gehajake Re: Having a tuff time - 11/03/22 12:30 PM
Prayers going out your way Kenny!!

Its no fun, I spent about five days in the joint a yr ago on oxygen, I got past the initial covid pretty reasonable I thought but went back to work too soon and got some rock dust in my lungs that were obviously still compromised, wound up with pneumonia in both lungs. My blood O2 levels were way down in the 60s. Ive never spent the night in a hospital in my life. that was a tough one!! wouldn't wish it on anybody!
I hope you will bounce out of it pronto with no problems,, Prayers and Good Luck from your PB family!! Get well Quick!
Posted By: esshup Re: Having a tuff time - 11/03/22 01:23 PM
Dang Kenny, I guess the flame on both ends of the candle finally met in the middle. I know that there isn't much that I can do from here, but if there's anything that I can do, let me know. Prayers for a fast and complete recovery.
Posted By: azteca Re: Having a tuff time - 11/03/22 01:52 PM
Hello.

Good luck Kenny.
A+
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Having a tuff time - 11/03/22 02:40 PM
Dang Kenny, sorry to hear that you have been laid up with Covid.

I hope you have a case that your body can shed fairly quickly and without any lasting effects!
Posted By: Bill Cody Re: Having a tuff time - 11/03/22 02:44 PM
Kenny - All the prayers that I can muster are for your recovery. God Bless you and the family.
Posted By: Pat Williamson Re: Having a tuff time - 11/03/22 04:27 PM
God bless you and please get well
Posted By: Augie Re: Having a tuff time - 11/03/22 06:16 PM
We'll be praying for you Kenny.
Posted By: catscratch Re: Having a tuff time - 11/03/22 08:47 PM
Prayers man! Wishing you the best!
Posted By: Flame Re: Having a tuff time - 11/04/22 12:43 AM
God is great Snipe!! Keep the faith. I am sending many prayers. We will see you on the road to recovery soon!! All of your Pond Boss family is praying for you!! Prayer is better than luck any day!! Try to be patient and let God heal you at God's speed!
Posted By: Sunil Re: Having a tuff time - 11/04/22 12:52 AM
To quote Jimi, Snipe, "Straight ahead."

Focus on the next day and repeat.

We're with you.
Posted By: canyoncreek Re: Having a tuff time - 11/04/22 01:48 AM
Wish there was something I could do to assist. Just turn it over to the experts and we'll be praying for you.
Posted By: Snipe Re: Having a tuff time - 11/04/22 03:07 AM
Hey all, didn't know I'd be back quite so soon but they didn't ship me out last night. The drugs they started me on have helped with breathing greatly. Far from normal with hills to climb but I "think" the fear of lungs failing is maybe past for now as long as no other issues crop up.
I really am thankful for the kind words here, I guess I was scared more than I knew.
I do know the antibiotics I'm on are such that I can't have visitors for awhile I'm told.
I tried to pull a funny with a nurse and ask if the O2 mask was a matala.. nobody got it, but didn't matter, it was funny to me.
Long road ahead, glad I didn't have to leave for now. Thanks for the prayers all.
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: Having a tuff time - 11/04/22 11:22 AM
In my prayers.
Posted By: nehunter Re: Having a tuff time - 11/04/22 12:19 PM
Great news GOD BLESS
Posted By: esshup Re: Having a tuff time - 11/04/22 03:50 PM
Whew! I was getting worried when I didn't get a reply to my text. Glad to hear that you are doing better.
Posted By: Bill Cody Re: Having a tuff time - 11/05/22 12:50 AM
You are still in our thoughts and prayers for a FULL recovery. Some issues take a fairly long time for the body to fully recover from trauma.
Posted By: 4CornersPuddle Re: Having a tuff time - 11/05/22 03:10 PM
Kenny, I logged on yesterday and read this scary post. What a relief to have your breathing back, right?
I've been facing my mortality the last week and a half as I had open heart surgery for a valve repair last week and spent more than the week in the hospital. Recovery is moving along now. I have my strength and balance, but nearly no endurance. A simple walk to the pond 100' away can leave me out of breath! I was told that is to be expected, but not breathing well is rather spooky!
During any potentially painful procedure in the hospital, I was advised to relax into a "happy place". Each time I would imagine myself in a chair at the end of my dock pitching meal worms and Optimal to the hungry hordes. That got me through it all.
Ponds do serve us well, don't they?!
My absolute best is flowing your way through the several miles that physically separate us. Your bright spirit has helped us all.
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Having a tuff time - 11/05/22 04:11 PM
4CP,

Glad to hear you are improving rapidly. Very impressive to already be walking to the pond!

Hopefully, you will soon be easily walking down to the dock and chucking feed to your fishies!
Posted By: 4CornersPuddle Re: Having a tuff time - 11/06/22 03:32 AM
Thanks snipe.
I did get to the pond twice today with the sole purpose of enjoying the feasting trout. They are the only fish still visibly taking pellets. Water temp has dropped well below 50 degrees so bass and sunfish are deep and out of view.
Already the walk back to the house is feeling like a stroll instead of a mountain hike.
I'll not be going back to work for many (5 or 6) months, so if you can use a hand at your place later in winter or early spring, just holler. I'll drive over.
Posted By: Heppy Re: Having a tuff time - 11/06/22 12:30 PM
Snipe, I just wanted to say prayers for your full recovery and let you know what worked for me. I’m in the high risk group and never got the jab. Covid hit me and my 2 sons in January of this year, by day three I was back to 100% and my sons lasted a week or longer. I took Ivermectin (.4 mg/kg), 50 mg of elemental zinc, and 5000mg of vitamin D. I had my Ivermectin prescription written by a doctor at speakwithanmd.com. Americas frontline doctors is another group you could also contact. The good thing is once you’ve gotten over Covid you then have natural immunity.
Posted By: Sunil Re: Having a tuff time - 11/06/22 03:15 PM
Originally Posted by FishinRod
4CP,

Glad to hear you are improving rapidly. Very impressive to already be walking to the pond!

Hopefully, you will soon be easily walking down to the dock and chucking feed to your fishies!

+1
Posted By: 4CornersPuddle Re: Having a tuff time - 11/06/22 11:22 PM
Thanks Sunil. I'm already walking more and faster. I've been to the pond 3xs today to feed. What a relief to be able to breathe again.
Posted By: teehjaeh57 Re: Having a tuff time - 11/08/22 06:58 PM
Jeesh - sorry Kenny and Roger I'm a little late to the thread. Glad you're both on the mend, I'll be sending healing vibes to KS and CO. This may result in some sudden hair loss or your neighbors as this isn't yet an exact science, but my heart is in the right place.
Posted By: 4CornersPuddle Re: Having a tuff time - 11/09/22 01:17 AM
Thanks, tj. Every day continues to be better than the last. I appreciate your energy.
Posted By: Snipe Re: Having a tuff time - 11/10/22 12:30 AM
4CP, Mitral valve by chance?
Keep smiling my friend, I'll do the same.
Posted By: 4CornersPuddle Re: Having a tuff time - 11/10/22 02:19 AM
Yes snipe, mitral valve regurgitation due to prolapse.
Pati and I now know so very much more about the heart and all its functions than we ever wanted to know. You could say more than we ever thought could be known!
The knowledge, wisdom, competence, and efficiency of the entire heart team were beyond our expectations.
And yes, lots of smiling going on around here now.
Posted By: jpsdad Re: Having a tuff time - 11/13/22 02:52 PM
Snipe & 4CP,

I am relieved to read that each of you are recovering well. I add my prayers for your continued recovery. A apologize for not posting sooner but we have been dealing with medical concerns also with my son who suffers from epilepsy and has had recent seizures. We seem to have moved past this but it's left us wondering why there seems to be an annual recurrence in the early November time period. Anyways, keep getting better and keep us posted.
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Having a tuff time - 11/13/22 03:33 PM
jpsdad,

Sorry to hear that your son is also in the "tuff time" category. I hope he manages a full recovery and can return to his normal activities soon.
Posted By: anthropic Re: Having a tuff time - 11/14/22 05:37 AM
Originally Posted by 4CornersPuddle
Thanks Sunil. I'm already walking more and faster. I've been to the pond 3xs today to feed. What a relief to be able to breathe again.

One underappreciated benefit of a pond is that it gives you reason to get out, walk around, do stuff in the great outdoors. At least for me, it's too easy post retirement to sit around at the keyboard or read a book all day.
Posted By: Snipe Re: Having a tuff time - 03/07/23 06:39 PM
Hello all, I wanted to come back and post a few updates here.
Haven't been "ON" for awhile, miss you guys..
Just wanted to drop in and let you folks know I've been experiencing some side effects (so they say) to my Covid experience..
Started having unexplained seizures nearly 2 months ago now. We "think" we have those under control and I've gotten WAY behind in my fish farm duties, but with my wife's and a couple of friends help, we're back up to speed-if that's possible to catch up- and looks like I'm ready for the year to start.
I am SO VERY PROUD to announce an opportunity that has been given to me that will set new goals going forward...TODAY, I signed an MOU to obtain Sauger for the purpose of propagating SAUGEYE-in the Private sector..
I/we believe this to be the first-ever private sector production process for this hybrid.
I've partnered up with a grower I've been working with in CO. We have the water needed to grow out a good number of Saugeye, WAE and SMB. Things are taking shape.
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Having a tuff time - 03/07/23 07:18 PM
Snipe,

Hope you get well soon!

Also, congrats on the new Saugeye project!

I hope you have enough time to share what are sure to fascinating results on the forum. (Of course, it is tough to have enough time when you are the equivalent of a one-legged man in an a$$ kicking contest.)
Posted By: ewest Re: Having a tuff time - 03/07/23 07:31 PM
Great news on both accounts !
Posted By: azteca Re: Having a tuff time - 03/07/23 07:48 PM
Hello.

Good luck.
Posted By: Omaha Re: Having a tuff time - 03/07/23 07:59 PM
Glad to see you're on the mend. And congrats on the sauger news!! Very cool!
Posted By: esshup Re: Having a tuff time - 03/07/23 08:21 PM
That's fantastic news!!! Now when will the fish business be enough so you can quit your day (or night) job? LOL
Posted By: Sunil Re: Having a tuff time - 03/08/23 12:19 AM
Awesome!!
Posted By: Pat Williamson Re: Having a tuff time - 03/08/23 01:10 AM
We behind you!
Posted By: canyoncreek Re: Having a tuff time - 03/08/23 01:32 AM
educate us on what a sauger is and why you would hybrid with walleye and then what the advantages (or disadvantages) of the saug-eye might be? are these best suited for smaller or larger ponds and are we targeting cooler/northern ponds or can they do southern ponds too?
Posted By: anthropic Re: Having a tuff time - 03/08/23 03:01 AM
Get well soon, Snipe! I have fond memories of fishing for saugeye in central Ohio. Delish!
Posted By: Snipe Re: Having a tuff time - 03/08/23 03:09 PM
Originally Posted by canyoncreek
educate us on what a sauger is and why you would hybrid with walleye and then what the advantages (or disadvantages) of the saug-eye might be? are these best suited for smaller or larger ponds and are we targeting cooler/northern ponds or can they do southern ponds too?
The Saugeye came about in KS as an additional fishing opportunity that was desirable because of growth rate typical of most hybrids.
What was NOT known for some time was their tolerance of less than stelar water quality, the ability to thrive in higher than both parent stocks temp ranges and then later yet the discovery of their appetite for sunfish opposite the typical fusiform shape desired by most predators. This led to a massive shift in biomass with quantity over quality pan-fisheries. It was found by accident, really.. several stunted crappie situations turned from an untouchable number of 5-7", uncontrollable crappie populations into a suddenly increasing size of crappie that led to large crappie that had never been observed in many KS impoundments.
Over the last decade, studies have shown the Saugeye to work better than anything known for controlling massive numbers of small BG without disrupting other species population such as LMB in a negative manner. Most of the research conducted showed the LMB population structure had an over abundance of small, hungry bass that due to cover related issues, the smaller BG were not being consumed and resulted in some starvation of small LMB with a following explosion of BG. Now, we all know this is a management issue in small ponds, and it's easy to say there is cover that needs removed for predator access. When the state looks at this, the time factor plays a role and it becomes impractical for them to devote Many hours of time to lessen the percentage of habitat.
Enter the Saugeye.. Observations of these fish having one or 2 up cruising through cattails and other dense shoreline cover vegetation running smaller fish out to other waiting mouths.
Stocking rates required have been found to be fairly low when being used as a tool to modify a panfish structure, like 4-10 fish per acre, every other year and like any other fish we deal with, they are culled when desired results are noted.
Walleye can do "ok" in some ponds but if you really note body condition by the numbers, seldom will you ever find WAE above the 85% WR mark, it's just not where they do well. Take a saugeye from a small, slightly discolored, maybe 80-82 deg water body type and generally you will find them in the 90%+ WR.
Basically, the Saugeye gets only growth potential from the WAE.. They take on the traits of Sauger in preferring warmer, turbid conditions where WAE fail badly, then add the hybrid vigor that builds in the aggressive behavior and you have a very useful tool that is easily caught, does a lot of work for you and taste very well on the table.
Many states use the Saugeye in larger impoundments to replace WAE where they won't recruit for various reasons.
For archives: WAE=Walleye, SAE=Saugeye. These are widely accepted abbreviations for these 2 fish and are used by my state hatcheries for ID, so that's how I use them.

Edit: As for location, they do well in the top 1/3rd of Texas-on North. In a nutshell, they handle warmer water than WAE.
Posted By: Omaha Re: Having a tuff time - 03/08/23 03:55 PM
Thanks for the assessment Snipe. My pond needs some SAE.
Posted By: jludwig Re: Having a tuff time - 03/08/23 05:36 PM
Happy to have you back, Snipe!
Posted By: catscratch Re: Having a tuff time - 03/08/23 06:08 PM
Originally Posted by Snipe
Originally Posted by canyoncreek
educate us on what a sauger is and why you would hybrid with walleye and then what the advantages (or disadvantages) of the saug-eye might be? are these best suited for smaller or larger ponds and are we targeting cooler/northern ponds or can they do southern ponds too?
The Saugeye came about in KS as an additional fishing opportunity that was desirable because of growth rate typical of most hybrids.
What was NOT known for some time was their tolerance of less than stelar water quality, the ability to thrive in higher than both parent stocks temp ranges and then later yet the discovery of their appetite for sunfish opposite the typical fusiform shape desired by most predators. This led to a massive shift in biomass with quantity over quality pan-fisheries. It was found by accident, really.. several stunted crappie situations turned from an untouchable number of 5-7", uncontrollable crappie populations into a suddenly increasing size of crappie that led to large crappie that had never been observed in many KS impoundments.
Over the last decade, studies have shown the Saugeye to work better than anything known for controlling massive numbers of small BG without disrupting other species population such as LMB in a negative manner. Most of the research conducted showed the LMB population structure had an over abundance of small, hungry bass that due to cover related issues, the smaller BG were not being consumed and resulted in some starvation of small LMB with a following explosion of BG. Now, we all know this is a management issue in small ponds, and it's easy to say there is cover that needs removed for predator access. When the state looks at this, the time factor plays a role and it becomes impractical for them to devote Many hours of time to lessen the percentage of habitat.
Enter the Saugeye.. Observations of these fish having one or 2 up cruising through cattails and other dense shoreline cover vegetation running smaller fish out to other waiting mouths.
Stocking rates required have been found to be fairly low when being used as a tool to modify a panfish structure, like 4-10 fish per acre, every other year and like any other fish we deal with, they are culled when desired results are noted.
Walleye can do "ok" in some ponds but if you really note body condition by the numbers, seldom will you ever find WAE above the 85% WR mark, it's just not where they do well. Take a saugeye from a small, slightly discolored, maybe 80-82 deg water body type and generally you will find them in the 90%+ WR.
Basically, the Saugeye gets only growth potential from the WAE.. They take on the traits of Sauger in preferring warmer, turbid conditions where WAE fail badly, then add the hybrid vigor that builds in the aggressive behavior and you have a very useful tool that is easily caught, does a lot of work for you and taste very well on the table.
Many states use the Saugeye in larger impoundments to replace WAE where they won't recruit for various reasons.
For archives: WAE=Walleye, SAE=Saugeye. These are widely accepted abbreviations for these 2 fish and are used by my state hatcheries for ID, so that's how I use them.

Edit: As for location, they do well in the top 1/3rd of Texas-on North. In a nutshell, they handle warmer water than WAE.

And just like that Snipe is back bringing a boatload of awesome information!

I'm sorry to hear about your health issues and truly hope you've got them under control.

Congrats on the opportunity to produce some new fish. Sounds like an amazing situation for you!

Sauger sound perfect for those KS watershed ponds (15-20 acres) that are full of white crappie.

Congrats and good luck!
Posted By: Snipe Re: Having a tuff time - 03/08/23 06:21 PM
catscratch, that's where the SAE really shine, but until now we've only had these available BY state hatchery, FOR state-run impoundments.. That's about to change.
Posted By: catscratch Re: Having a tuff time - 03/08/23 07:27 PM
I have a pond just as described, but it's not a bad fishery as we catch nice fish out of it. Always interested in ways to improve it. Great information!
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: Having a tuff time - 03/09/23 01:21 AM
Great news Snipe
Posted By: canyoncreek Re: Having a tuff time - 03/09/23 01:13 PM
Thanks for all that information Snipe and very very happy your body is turning the corner and picking up steam too!

Wow, that hybrid sounds like a real winner and a wonderful discovery that can help thousands of pondowners. Most all small lakes around here are very eutrophic. They have too much runoff, too many weeds, too many skinny bass and bug-eyed bluegill and there is no way it will ever get back in balance. No one wants to catch and filet the tiny bluegill and we aren't allowed to cull the skinny bass. To make it worse they moved the legal LMB size from 12" to 14" They should have moved it down to 10"!!

But this type of warm water tolerant fish that targets the skinny bluegill and stunted crappie sounds fantastic.

Will it be a struggle to get other states to 'trust' this GMO fish? We still have hysteric paranoia in MI over tilapia and hybrid stripers, I'm wondering how long it will take each state to warm up to the idea of allowing SAE in public lakes and then what the struggle might be to allow private pond owners to pay an out of state fish truck to bring some in and stock them.

Are the young SAE hardy enough to put in a box and ship to another state for their reservoirs or stocking programs?
Posted By: Snipe Re: Having a tuff time - 03/09/23 04:57 PM
CC, the SAE, as with WAE are not easy to ship and with the protocol involved, I probably won't even try that.
From the time they hatch you have 3 days to get them on plankton or they will not survive, but it might take 7 days to completely hatch out 1 jar, all fertilized at the same time, so keeping track of egg quantity in jar every 24 hrs is extremely important and what hatches in 72hrs is all that goes in to the grow-out they will be in for the next 5-6 months, with a fertilizer program started 2 weeks prior to stocking and every week after for 5 weeks. FHM are added to grow-outs at 4 weeks post hatch.
To go in and try to obtain 1.25" fish would be extremely time consuming and beings we lower water to extract, it would cause a lot of small fish to be lost during that process.
I wouldn't be against trying some fry in a feed tank with fry powder-I know guys do that with WAE in 1 or 2 farms, but it's a 24/7 job.
I'll think about that..
Posted By: canyoncreek Re: Having a tuff time - 03/09/23 05:30 PM
Well for sure, make sure the program is successful and do what is best for the success rates.

I was just thinking if you make the program successful and can ramp it up, would there ever be enough for sales at fish farms out of state or would it only be for Kansas stocking situations?
Posted By: catscratch Re: Having a tuff time - 03/09/23 05:34 PM
Wow, the knowledge and commitment are spectacular! Good luck with this endeavor and I hope it works well for you!
Posted By: Snipe Re: Having a tuff time - 03/09/23 09:12 PM
Originally Posted by canyoncreek
Well for sure, make sure the program is successful and do what is best for the success rates.

I was just thinking if you make the program successful and can ramp it up, would there ever be enough for sales at fish farms out of state or would it only be for Kansas stocking situations?
I have health cert for the waters/fish I raise, so they can go anywhere allowed by the health cert..
Some of my grow-outs are on Colorado side of border so we had to provide the cert to them as well.. Luckily KS is in a good working relationship with CO so no issues there.
It will be handled on a case by case basis as we are testing for most items required by many states and not just our own. That in itself can get expensive.
Posted By: canyoncreek Re: Having a tuff time - 03/10/23 12:51 PM
Sorry for all the questions!

I was curious if the saugeye females produce viable eggs and if pond with saugeye male/females only will produce viable young SAE?

IF the saugeye was planted in a larger BOW with walleye, would the walleye male fertilize the SAE female eggs and what are the characteristics of a hybride WAE-SAE female that crosses with a male WAE (or I guess it could happen the other way where a male SAE fertilizes normal walleye eggs)?
Posted By: Sunil Re: Having a tuff time - 03/10/23 01:05 PM
I had the same kind of question as canyon.

Can the Saugeye reproduce in a pond, if we know?

Also, what do we think predates on Saugeye?
Posted By: esshup Re: Having a tuff time - 03/10/23 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by Sunil
I had the same kind of question as canyon.


Also, what do we think predates on Saugeye?

Humans for the adults. The smaller Saugeye, the same fish that would predate on YP.
Posted By: ewest Re: Having a tuff time - 03/10/23 05:13 PM
https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=197069&page=1

Dave Willis

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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,587
South Dakota State University
Jim -- lots of natural hybrids between walleye and sauger in our Missouri River and its reservoirs, too. Not from any purposeful saugeye stocking.

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From Bob Lusk: Dr. Dave Willis passed away January 13, 2014. He continues to be a key part of our Pond Boss family...and always will be.


Dave Willis

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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,587
South Dakota State University
TJ -- you are on-target except for limited reproductive ability. The hybrid (saugeye) is fertile, will back-cross with both parents, and will produce an F2 generation. That's what really stopped the momentum for them for sport fishing. For a while, I was hoping that someone was going to get into triploid saugeye to avoid the reproduction issue, but haven't heard anything about that lately.

The states of Ohio and Oklahoma really had some spectacular saugeye fisheries going in places where the walleye populations had been poor (turbid, high flow through). Other Midwestern states were interested and used them a little, but then the concern over the saugeyes getting into native walleye and sauger populations arose, and most states backed off on saugeyes. We used them up at Richmond Lake (880 impoundment) in SD, and really created a super black crappie fishery in a lake in which the crappies had been stunted for years (decades). We compared saugeye and walleye in a 22-acre pond near Brookings, and really saw no difference between them in this good habitat. However, it was really cool when my son caught that 30-inch saugeye last summer out there! As Cecil indicated on the other thread, we really don't expect reproduction by saugeye or walleye in ponds. However, the walleyes in one gravel pit north of town here do have a little trickle of natural recruitment. Every time we electrofish in the fall, we always got just a few age-0 fish that came from natural spawning.

Bill and Cecil -- I thought some of the early work on saugeye showed that they were easier to intensive culture than the walleye? Same thing with the tiger musky vs. the northern pike or muskellunge?

I checked with Mike Brown, our culture guy, and he wondered if Held had been using the new Otohime diet or something similar? Mike said his LMB really like it in his tank experiments. I think Otohime is the next generation of the Biokyowa diet, and that diet sure helped some of the intensive culture efforts.

We still end up at the same place. What would be the brood source for pure sauger and pure walleye for production of the hybrids?
Posted By: Snipe Re: Having a tuff time - 03/11/23 07:14 AM
Originally Posted by Sunil
I had the same kind of question as canyon.

Can the Saugeye reproduce in a pond, if we know?

Also, what do we think predates on Saugeye?
As I posted in the hybrid thread that was resurrected, yes, the "potential" to reproduce is still there, even with triploid saugeye, but it seems the same basic rules tend to follow suit with what we see with WAE.
we do have confirmation of 3 consecutive yrs of reproduction of triploid saugeye in 2 small impoundments now, so like everything else, I don't think it's smart to assume "never" but the likely hood of this occurring in a small pond of say, less than 25-30 acres would be very low UNLESS conditions were present to support perfect alignment.

ewest, appreciate the reference from Dave Willis. My Mentor in this project was a student of Dr. Willis's, and is now the director of our Percid program. He has a letter on his office wall framed, that Dr. Willis sent to him just prior to his graduation many many years ago. It's even more of an honor to get to work with someone that learned from Dr. Willis-The legacy continues!
Posted By: Snipe Re: Having a tuff time - 03/17/23 02:57 AM
CC, I didn't really answer your question about crossing back.. Yes, they sure can-if conditions are such that reproduction, hatch and recruitment can exist.
Now that we have confirmation of Triploid Saugeye reproducing, Triploids will no longer be produced. Kansas also does not stock SAE where WAE reproduce successfully anyway, so it would not be advised.
Posted By: esshup Re: Having a tuff time - 03/18/23 03:47 AM
Originally Posted by Snipe
CC, I didn't really answer your question about crossing back.. Yes, they sure can-if conditions are such that reproduction, hatch and recruitment can exist.
Now that we have confirmation of Triploid Saugeye reproducing, Triploids will no longer be produced. Kansas also does not stock SAE where WAE reproduce successfully anyway, so it would not be advised.

Were the Triploid Saugeye individually blood tested to prove they were all Triploids? If not, some could have been diploids and could have been responsible for the reproduction. Here in Indiana, ALL Triploid Grass Carp have to be individually tested, then 10% of that "lot" are re-checked by USF&W people before a triploid certificate will be issued for that lot of fish.
Posted By: Snipe Re: Having a tuff time - 03/18/23 11:58 PM
There's no individual testing because most are stocked as fry and there just isn't room to grow out the number used.
I should add that the reproducing populations were tested. I think this is the end of triploid saugeye for KS.
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